SM Jiraiya vs Itachi

[madvictory]

It's a tie. Itachi uses Amaterasu on Jiraiya, but while the latter still has time, uses Frog Genjutsu on Itachi, and afterwards a Giant Rasengan.

 

[ᖇ α z m α η]

What does that change? ​

Jiraiya have the assistance of two great sage toads at this scenario [since he's starting at sage mode] and has the ability to summon the others as well [They can be used more like diversion/assistance]

Great toads have the ability to disrupt the chakra flow if the user is caught in genjutsu [It also takes high amount of pressure on Itachi, which cannot be used repeatedly]

Fukasaku-sama and Jiraiya have water affinity which can make Itachis fire attacks in-effective [Jiraiya/Shima has affinity for fire and has the ability to use Myoboku oil]

Sage mode increase the sensing and reflexes [which can be used to counter Totsuka - which still cannot be maintained for a long time]

Note : Totsuka was effective against immobile targets so far [Orochimaru and Nagato] and it is limited with the users ability to perceive

Jiraiya/Fukasaku/Shima possess wind affinity and when infused with sage chakra, they're more lethal to attack the weak points of Susanoo [Include the fact Itachi cannot cover 360degrees with his Yata mirror - Still he's able to manage to hold for brief amount of time]

Sage mode also gives Jiraiya to sense the pressure build before Amaterasu is casted

---

Jiraiya has Frog Kata which allows to improve the attack range :

Spoiler

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---

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Jiraiya is able to use Toad confrontation chant [which makes the user immobile to move or break out - Nagato had to rely onto one of his other paths]

Spoiler

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Note : Itachi was able to get out of white rage of DSM Kabuto due to the help of Sasuke, which is not the same case scenario presented here

Jiraiya has more chakra reserves than Itachi at base and when having access to sage mode [with the help of great toads] improves his reserves drastically [Jiraiya gains advantage when the battle is prolonged]

---

Conclusion : Jiraiya has more chances to pull out a win against Itachi .​

 

[Ababeel]

Jiraiya wins low-mid difficult at most. Itachi admitted that he can't defeat Base Jiraiya, and even if he could somehow, he will get killed in the processes even with Kisame's help. He stands no chance against SM Jiraiya.

 

[Hazo]

Jiraiya stomps Itachi...

 

[Chazzi]

Jiraiya wins low-mid difficult at most. Itachi admitted that he can't defeat Base Jiraiya, and even if he could somehow, he will get killed in the processes even with Kisame's help. He stands no chance against SM Jiraiya.

0/10 trolling bro.

 

[Haizaki]

It's definitely a High difficulty fight...How's Base Jiraiya standing a chance?

 

[Joki]

wow arial is ugly as fug I'm fixing it

As expected, Joki's head must to be too far up his (Or Jiraiya's) ass to actually read through the thread, as my reasoning has already been posted, and it's not being posted again because some troll doesn't have the brains to click the link leading to the first 3 pages. Not to mention you've still failed to explain how Jiraiya wins, you are doing the same thing you've been doing the past 2 posts. Whining and complaining about me posting no argument or reasoning of any kind, even though I have...and the usual "Jiraiya stomps, prove me wrong" shtick.

Don't wanna spam up the thread replying to a troll any further, so when you actually post something productive, I'll be waiting.

spoiler tagged it even though it's not really all that long lol...anyway

Spoiler

Just as I expected, you not only ignored my entire post but you didn't post anything supporting your argument despite the burden of proof being on you. See, I knew you couldn't support Itachi standing a chance in any way even if you wanted to ,at least against someone like me who wouldn't put up with that kind of BS. BUUUUT, since I'm nice, even though the burden of proof is on YOU and you failed to provide any shred of evidence that hasn't been destroyed already in this thread, you asked for it lol.

I really didn't want to have to waste time destroying you if I could avoid it since it serves no purpose, since I KNOW you will never even slightly consider an opposing viewpoint after what you've shown me you're like in this thread. If anything, you'll just never reply thus I wasted my time getting all those scans hence why I asked you to say that line where "I'll consider your arguments instead of automatically dismissing them simply because I don't agree, and actually accept defeat if the scans legitimately show that" etc. Of course I didn't expect you to, never, even though that's the mindset every debater should have because it's the correct one, anything other than that is outright admitting "Yes I know I'm wrong but I'm too stubborn to admit it." No surprises there though

Your head is, similarly, also stuck so far up a particular character's ass whereas to immediately dismiss any opinion that doesn't completely agree with your own. But it can't be helped, guess I'll waste a few minutes gathering the evidence just to shut you up or put you in that state of butthurt denial that I know all too well for a few posts until you ragequit and stop posting. We all know that's equal to a victory around here anyway considering it's as close as you can come, so I'll take it, better than nothing since you definitely don't want to initiate by contributing to the discussion instead of flaming all day long.

Actually no, I would post every scan that features Jiraiya in general then every scan that features Itachi in general to prove without a shadow of a doubt that Jiraiya objectively shits on Itachi because there is NOTHING he can do, but that'd be a waste of time since I know you're not gonna reply because you can't counter anyway. Might as well start off small so you have the illusion that you stand a chance here being on the clear losing side.

Spoiler

Yomi Numa solos,

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it covers far too vast of range for Itachi to escape from before he gets sunk 100m underground and drowns. Jiraiya activates it nigh instantly like in that panel, plus as you already know he was drugged and couldn't even perform a summoning jutsu correctly, and obviously he wasn't in SM either only vastly improving its possible size. If you can miraculously prove how Itachi's going to be able to react to this or survive even though no move he has in his arsenal is even capable of extending past the range of the swamp, which you can't, then we can move on from there.

I recall you saying something about him jumping, well first off you're gonna have to prove he has the speed to do that before it sinks him, then you're gonna have to explain how Itachi leaving himslf defenseless in midair while he falls against an opponent who can casually drop boss toads and send a huge wave of oil on top of the massive swamp that will drown him 100m once he lands on it will be avoided.

So yes, surprise the burden of proof falls in your hands to prove that Itachi has any way of avoiding the swamp even at the very start of the fight, which he does not. No speed feat he has or no logical showing Itachi has ever done has been able to respond to this technique(or most of Jiraiya's but I chose to start out with this one, not that you're getting past even the first one), because an answer simply does not exist in the manga. I'm telling you this because I said from my very first post you're fighting a losing battle, support for Itachi in Itachi vs Jiraiya does not exist. He gets annihilated. If you don't think he does, then again, for the infinityth time you can prove this through actually countering me and supporting your claims since you think he wins so handily, hm? Him winning in general is one thing...but one jutsu shouldn't be a problem right?

If you try to claim you already gave counters to this then you're lying because I don't see it, so if you really did then post it or you lose simple as that. It's extremely easy to find one of your few posts in this thread and copy paste where you did counter it, I'm not going to go finding answers to your own claims for you that's your job and if you failed, then just that, you failed. I can't prove that your support for it ISNT there(actually, I can if I paste every single post in the thread) so you simply have to copy/paste where you said it or you lose. But we both know you didn't, so it's fine. Just making sure you don't try to claim "lol I already answered this earlier, of course Joki ignored it just as i thought, I win this wanker" like you've been trying to do as a dumb one liner to this post because you can't counter.

What you need to give me, is proof for Itachi's reaction speed that he won't be instantly drowned in the swamp, not even Susano'o would be able to protect him from it as evidenced by Gaara's sand slipping under it easily. He has no defensive jutsu that will protect him from being drowned, he has no offensive jutsu that will be of use or harm Jiraiya before he's sunk 100 meters, and you've given no support for his speed that he'll be able to react as of yet. So until then I'm waiting.

Anything other than support for your claims or a concession is irrelevant and will be considered as you being in denial and a win for me. You wanted a relevant argument on the actual matchup so you got one and it starts off incredibly simple, if you can't even counter one measly technique then Itachi truly stands no chance here. Please try to keep the childish insults on the down low, since you have a real on topic post to attempt to counter I don't expect you to be civil but hopefully your "counters" have a lot more substance than "lol look at this wanker and his moronic logic." If you're going to say I'm an idiot, that's one thing, but at least try to explain WHY I'm an idiot with actual proof. The rest of your posts in this thread was using I'm an idiot AS the reason which is literally ad hominem.

Anyway, If it Itachi really does win you should have no problem proving it whatsoever instead of acting like a spoiled brat, so go ahead and try and prove how he lasts a few seconds against Jiraiya now. I've given something, backed it up with proof and my thoughts/reasoning and even more support to why it would work. This is at least far more than you have now since you were so reluctant despite burden of proof falling on you in the first place, and as of this post my claims 100% valid and have not been countered. Now it's your turn inb4 a butthurt excuse or never replies after this(at least i didnt waste time getting more than 1 scan though).

good luck, and be nice... or if you're gonna be mean, back it up with facts this time not insecurities :^)

 

[Itachi of the Uchiha clan]

LMFAO @ OP FOR MAKING THIS THREAD
itachi neggs

 

[Apêx1]

It's definitely a High difficulty fight...How's Base Jiraiya standing a chance?

Because Jiraiya fans (wankers) disregard logic due to the fact that Itachi said he'd lose to Jiraiya, even though in the VIZ, he said they'd

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. And do note his statement of reinforcements won't change the outcome, when everyone knows, including Itachi, that Nagato would take a shit on Jiraiya. So reinforcements do matter, and that was merely demonstrating his double agent manoeuvres from an early point in the manga.

 

[Beans2]

It's a tie. Itachi uses Amaterasu on Jiraiya, but while the latter still has time, uses Frog Genjutsu on Itachi, and afterwards a Giant Rasengan.

This is the worst logic I've ever seen.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Jiraiya have the assistance of two great sage toads at this scenario [since he's starting at sage mode] and has the ability to summon the others as well [They can be used more like diversion/assistance]

Great toads have the ability to disrupt the chakra flow if the user is caught in genjutsu [It also takes high amount of pressure on Itachi, which cannot be used repeatedly]

Fukasaku-sama and Jiraiya have water affinity which can make Itachis fire attacks in-effective [Jiraiya/Shima has affinity for fire and has the ability to use Myoboku oil]

Sage mode increase the sensing and reflexes [which can be used to counter Totsuka - which still cannot be maintained for a long time]​

Summoning other toads won't do a thing when in just a glance there under sharingan genjutsu. There not helping him if he get's caught in Tsukuyomi which takes full effect within 1 sec. ​

Note : Totsuka was effective against immobile targets so far [Orochimaru and Nagato] and it is limited with the users ability to perceive[/COLOR]

Jiraiya/Fukasaku/Shima possess wind affinity and when infused with sage chakra, they're more lethal to attack the weak points of Susanoo [Include the fact Itachi cannot cover 360degrees with his Yata mirror - Still he's able to manage to hold for brief amount of time]

Sage mode also gives Jiraiya to sense the pressure build before Amaterasu is casted

Totsuka won't be needed here. Itachi can cover a 360 not like he'll allow Jiraiya to get behide him anyways. What's the point of him knowing Amaterasu is going to be casted when he has no speed to dodge it. ​

---

Jiraiya has Frog Kata which allows to improve the attack range :

Spoiler

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---

You must be registered for see images

Jiraiya is able to use Toad confrontation chant [which makes the user immobile to move or break out - Nagato had to rely onto one of his other paths]

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Note : Itachi was able to get out of white rage of DSM Kabuto due to the help of Sasuke, which is not the same case scenario presented here

Jiraiya has more chakra reserves than Itachi at base and when having access to sage mode [with the help of great toads] improves his reserves drastically [Jiraiya gains advantage when the battle is prolonged]

---

Conclusion : Jiraiya has more chances to pull out a win against Itachi .

​

Frog kata is useless when Susanoo rib cage can block anything physical that comes toward him. Itachi unlike Nagato has sharingan which allows him to see through genjutsu and use his sharingan techs which he displayed while being under sound genjutsu already. What does WR has to do with anything plus Sasuke didn't help him get out of it anyways. Jiraiya may have more chakra but this battle won't come down to the out-lasting factor. ​

 

[Haizaki]

Because Jiraiya fans (wankers) disregard logic due to the fact that Itachi said he'd lose to Jiraiya, even though in the VIZ, he said they'd

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. And do note his statement of reinforcements won't change the outcome, when everyone knows, including Itachi, that Nagato would take a shit on Jiraiya. So reinforcements do matter, and that was merely demonstrating his double agent manoeuvres from an early point in the manga.

I'd actually love to see people debate SM Jiraiya vs Itachi...I'd read every single word and happily judge.

 

[RustledJimmies]

Because Jiraiya fans (wankers) disregard logic due to the fact that Itachi said he'd lose to Jiraiya, even though in the VIZ, he said they'd

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. And do note his statement of reinforcements won't change the outcome, when everyone knows, including Itachi, that Nagato would take a shit on Jiraiya. So reinforcements do matter, and that was merely demonstrating his double agent manoeuvres from an early point in the manga.

There's also the fact that he was referring to the Kyuubi (or Naruto in this case), not Jiraiya, as Kisame says "It was great finding him (Naruto) at the Ramen Shop, but... His (Naruto's) babysitter (Jiraiya) was one of the Three Great Shinobi of Konoha legend (Sannin, indicating that the 'babysitter' is Jiraiya, not the one who would badly injure Itachi, who was clearly Naruto/Kyuubi)."

 

[EliteKakashi]

Because Jiraiya fans (wankers) disregard logic due to the fact that Itachi said he'd lose to Jiraiya, even though in the VIZ, he said they'd

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. And do note his statement of reinforcements won't change the outcome, when everyone knows, including Itachi, that Nagato would take a shit on Jiraiya. So reinforcements do matter, and that was merely demonstrating his double agent manoeuvres from an early point in the manga.

I'm honestly not sure Kisame and Itachi are referencing Jiraiya in their first statements. While that makes the most sense when you look at those statements alone, if you look at Kisame's next statement, it makes the idea that they're referencing Jiraiya in their earlier statements unlikely:

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So, to clear up:

Even if you might be able to take him on, I'm not so sure about me.

then

It was great finding him at the ramen shop.

Then he references Jiraiya being his babysitter/bodyguard, and notes how Itachi and Kisame's titles pale in comparison to the title of a Sannin.

And where as Itachi stated worry about having to fight the first opponent Kisame was referencing, he stated this about Jiraiya:

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It's some pretty shitty wording/phrasing on behalf of Kishi(or maybe it's the translators who did a poor job) either way, but them referencing having to fight kyuubi makes much more sense given their statements on the bottom of that page then it does them referencing having to fight Jiraiya. There's no apparent break in their conversation either, so this appears to have been a fluid conversation.

 

[Icelerate]

Since there is no reasoning or logic in the manga that allows Itachi to counter Yomi Numa, base Jiraiya solos effortlessly, let alone SM Jiraiya who not even edo Itachi can beat.

 

[Beans2]

Since there is no reasoning or logic in the manga that allows Itachi to counter Yomi Numa, base Jiraiya solos effortlessly, let alone SM Jiraiya who not even edo Itachi can beat.

Not to mention Itachi does not posess a Susano'o at 1/456th of Madara's power.

 

[KidGamer65]

Everything off topic and irrelevant to the debate has been removed. If you wanna whine and bitch at someone, go do it elsewhere.

Yomi Numa solos,

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it covers far too vast of range for Itachi to escape from before he gets sunk 100m underground and drowns. Jiraiya activates it nigh instantly like in that panel, plus as you already know he was drugged and couldn't even perform a summoning jutsu correctly, and obviously he wasn't in SM either only vastly improving its possible size. If you can miraculously prove how Itachi's going to be able to react to this or survive even though no move he has in his arsenal is even capable of extending past the range of the swamp, which you can't, then we can move on from there.

1. Sharingan reads hand signs, allowing users to perform their exact jutsu even before the opponent can [

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] [X], and with intel on Jiraiya's Jutsu, he'd know it's coming before it actually came, so yes, he can evade it. Also, the location is

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, there are walls, ceilings, and even the pipe Jiraiya used to run away from Pain. Yomi Numa can't get all these places at once, so it's useless.

2. Fire heats up mud, and then the mud hardens. Katon does the same thing to the area Itachi is trapped in, then he breaks free and escapes the swamp.

I recall you saying something about him jumping, well first off you're gonna have to prove he has the speed to do that before it sinks him, then you're gonna have to explain how Itachi leaving himslf defenseless in midair while he falls against an opponent who can casually drop boss toads and send a huge wave of oil on top of the massive swamp that will drown him 100m once he lands on it will be avoided.

Doesn't need to outspeed the swamp when he'll be acting before Jiraiya has even finished the hand signs. Won't need to be mid air when he can easily jump to a wall, a ceiling, or one of the many pipes in the area. Also, defenseless? Susanoo exists for a reason.

 

[Draegod]

Everything off topic and irrelevant to the debate has been removed. If you wanna whine and bitch at someone, go do it elsewhere.



1. Sharingan reads hand signs, allowing users to perform their exact jutsu even before the opponent can [

You must be registered for see links

] [X], and with intel on Jiraiya's Jutsu, he'd know it's coming before it actually came, so yes, he can evade it. Also, the location is

You must be registered for see links

, there are walls, ceilings, and even the pipe Jiraiya used to run away from Pain. Yomi Numa can't get all these places at once, so it's useless.

2. Fire heats up mud, and then the mud hardens. Katon does the same thing to the area Itachi is trapped in, then he breaks free and escapes the swamp.


Doesn't need to outspeed the swamp when he'll be acting before Jiraiya has even finished the hand signs. Won't need to be mid air when he can easily jump to a wall, a ceiling, or one of the many pipes in the area. Also, defenseless? Susanoo exists for a reason.

Implying that Itachi want be boiled alive from the steaming Hot Mud is beyond ridiculous! That is the worst strategy to use! Have you ever seen or touched hot mud??? No Human will survive it wit out 3rd degree burns and higher! DAfuq did I just read??? When Water and dirt (Mud) is being hit by Fire, it boils to even an higher degree of heat! It doesn't Solidify until all moisture is left from the Mud. Do you know how long that would take, including if Jman even makes a small decent sized Swamp?


Jman Wins, but Don't care for this particular thread.

 

[madvictory]

This is the worst logic I've ever seen.

Thanks, mate :ilu:

 

[Joki]

Everything off topic and irrelevant to the debate has been removed. If you wanna whine and bitch at someone, go do it elsewhere.

That's good, I was hoping you'd do that instead of waste more time on the irrelevant details. Let's try to keep it that way, shall we

1. Sharingan reads hand signs, allowing users to perform their exact jutsu even before the opponent can [

You must be registered for see links

] [X], and with intel on Jiraiya's Jutsu, he'd know it's coming before it actually came, so yes, he can evade it. Also, the location is

You must be registered for see links

, there are walls, ceilings, and even the pipe Jiraiya used to run away from Pain. Yomi Numa can't get all these places at once, so it's useless.

What are you even talking about? Jiraiya's capable of using it on walls and ceilings as well, in fact he already did. Itachi jumps to avoid it(even though you've given no evidence to suggest he'd be fast enough to jump, despite being able to see Jiraiya make the handsign as it appears on the ground nigh instantly), if he tries to land on the wall the second he touches it he's trapped in another one. It's literally impossible for him to not get buried. If he jumps and tries to land on a wall it makes it even easier for Jiraiya to be able to land it, there's only 1 direction Itachi is capable of going from that point and it's down.

You seem to be under the impression that because someone has sharingan they're able to see in the future and automatically react to anything. Sorry, just seeing Jiraiya perform a handsign won't stop Itachi from being utterly annihilated as seen on

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. I made it a major point of my proof to ask you to provide some kind of evidence for Itachi's speed, not just "he sees it coming, therefore he's able to avoid it despite its instant esque nature." That's faulty logic, I'm waiting for some kind of support he's fast enough to do anything in response before it appears under him and sinks him 100m.

2. Fire heats up mud, and then the mud hardens. Katon does the same thing to the area Itachi is trapped in, then he breaks free and escapes the swamp.

Do you even research the jutsu you're trying to counter? To quote the DB on the intention of the tech: "By changing the ground into mud and creating a swamp, the enemy is sunk deep underground..." and, "The giant snake captured in this bog is prevented from moving! But if you ask Jiraiya, he'd say it is insufficient. The real goal of this technique is to completely submerge the target underground."

If you were trying to use that as support that Itachi would be able to burn the swamp while he's above it, then stand on it afterwards, that's one thing(which I have an entirely new set of problems with), and tell me if that's what you meant so I can list you my problems with that. But trying to say that while he's sunk he'll be able to somehow move whilst he's deep underground surounded by chakra infused mud leaving his body immobile, that's a very ridiculous line of logic. In fact, even when Jiraiya made a small one(expertly slipped in during a 3 way taijutsu fight against top tiers with superior eyes to sharingan might I add) to stop Human path, his

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were one of the parts that were completely submerged. Plus as we all know, Itachi is nowhere near one of the physically strongest characters in the series.

Once he lands in the swamp he's finished, end of story. I hope you wrote that part of your post wrong and didn't mean to suggest that Itachi would be able to escape from it through katon use once he's already submerged. If that is what you meant though then I urge you to reread the manga and get a better grasp on why Jiraiya is clearly superior here.

Doesn't need to outspeed the swamp when he'll be acting before Jiraiya has even finished the hand signs. Won't need to be mid air when he can easily jump to a wall, a ceiling, or one of the many pipes in the area.

Last I checked, both characters start the fight at the exact same time lol, Itachi doesn't start the vs match with a 1 second headstart. He's not Mifune, he can't miraculously act when Yomi Numa can be activating by simply moving your hands into a position. Even I as a human being could probably do that before Itachi can do anything from 30 meters. Look, the problem with this post is it's completely baseless. You've given no evidence for Itachi's speed that he will be able to do anything more than lift a finger before he's sunk and drowned. All you've said is that Itachi may or may not be able to see Jiraiya perform a simple handsign, but then the swamp immediately appears, he still can't actually do anything about it until you've shown otherwise.

We've seen on many, many occasions a sharingan user unable to react to someone even though they're clearly in their line of sight as I already showed above. Otherwise no sharingan user would ever be hit with a jutsu in the series, it's not omniscience it's precognitive abilities and they're useless when your body isn't fast enough to act on it. I've shown you Yomi Numa's activation speed, as I said in my first post and now we need to see Itachi's.

Also, defenseless? Susanoo exists for a reason

Yeah, but then he boxes himself in even further and makes it even easier for Yomi Numa to land and submerge him no diff. Once you counter Itachi's ability to even react to Yomi Numa, then we'll be able to move on how he handles himself now that he finds himself in the nigh defenseless midair position. After that we can go on to the other jutsu in Jiraiya's massive, extremely versatile arsenal. But for now, you find yourself struggling on only one simple move.