SM Jiraiya vs Itachi

[OnPoint]

4- Jiraya is a confirmed frog kata user and we've seen the scale of Naruto's frog fu during this war:

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It could effect the entire area inside a beast as big as Son. This move can potentially KO a Susanoo user in contact(assuming he doesn't fight back that's it)

This is cheeky. I like it, +rep.

 

[Bogard]

While this hurts my own argument, there's differences there.

1. Madara isn't as good as Itachi at genjutsu.

2. Madara did actually catch one of the kages in a genjutsu, he caught A.

3. Madara wasn't actually trying vs the Gokage.

1- Madara could combine taijutsu and genjutsu as well as Itachi when he could paralyze one of the jounin fodders during this war in a single glance despite being engaging another in a taijutsu battle and stopped by Gaara's sand. There is no difference in genjutsu casting skills between Itachi and Madara, except the fact Madara never demonstrated genjutsus outside his Sharingan

2- It happened to A only though and it did happen because he was distracted. Everyone else was fighting him perfectly fine

3- Something wrong considering he did take advantage of Ay's distraction to put him under genjutsu, he also did try to kill him and it would have happened if Onoki didn't intervene. Madara was going for the kill, without using his full power sure, he was going for the kill and even if it wasn't the case, genjutsu doesn't kill. It wasn't a restriction

This is cheeky. I like it, +rep.

Lol thanks

 

[Beans2]

Interesting match-up, Itachi wins high diff in both scenario's. V4 and Yata don't really do much for him, Totsuka would but it's not a game breaker. My reasons would be;

-Amateratsu still one shots Jiraiya.

If you think Amaterasu one shots Jiraiya then why do you think Itachi wins high diff?

Itach wins. Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu still and will always one-shot. Jiraiya has nothing to get past susano'o. Yomi Numa is easily avoided, especially given full intel on it. Worst case scenario; Itachi uses his suiton to propel himself out, with the aid of a clone if needed.

Edit: Actually, Amaterasu may not one shot, thinking about it now. The technique has been slandered so many times in the manga, wouldn't surprise me if Jiraiya really could seal the flames away even afte being engulfed in it... seeing how slow burning it is. He'll take damage, but nothing significant, I don't think.

Edit 2: Itachi still solos.

Edit 3: Nah, Amaterasu one shots.

Edit 4: But then again... Nah, nevermind.

Jiraiya has several ways to deal with Amaterasu, but the most effective way is to have Shima use her dust cloud and block Itachi's LoS. Itachi can kill Jiraiya with Amaterasu if used correctly in the right situation, but it doesn't one-shot him.

Yes, use a Dust Cloud that Itachi shunshins out of and lights on fire with his Katon (the jutsu is Futon enhanced by Senjutsu, so the air would be holding up dust particles). Not to mention, Dust cloud is not blinding Itachi, it will only prevent him from seeing Ma since the cloud has an identical chakra color to her own. Jiraiya and Pa are still standing out from it.

I disagree with the bold because Ma's chakra mixed in with the dust cloud would block Itachi's sharingan from seeing Jiraiya's chakra inside the dust cloud and all he would see is Ma's chakra. Kakashi couldn't see the other swordsmen inside the mist even though Zabuza was the only one producing it.

Frog Call=/=White Rage. White Rage was so intense that they couldn't focus due to the pain, meaning they couldn't hold up Susanoo. Ma and Pa's Sound Genjutsu paralyzes, but nothing implies it has the same potency White Rage does, so Susanoo isn't getting put down by it. Itachi won't be able to move..but that doesn't really matter if Jiraiya can't hurt him.

Hmm...what about Ma and Pa using Frog Call to paralyze Itachi, then Jiraiya uses Yomi Numa to sink him while he can't move?

 

[Zexion~]

Your overhype for Jiraiya is evident in making this thread

Jiraiya gets wrecked

 

[Beans2]

It's mud, why wouldn't his clones be able to pull him out?

The more the trapped person struggles. Someone pulling Itachi out isn't Itachi struggling, so he won't sink further. Also, he has to actually sink far enough below the mud for handsigns to be unusable. Unless Itachi sits there and waits to sink, then this won't be an issue.

No reason why it wouldn't. Suiton is still Water, gets evaporated by Katon, which is still fire.

But what would Itachi's clones be standing on, Lol?

Your overhype for Jiraiya is evident in making this thread

Jiraiya gets wrecked

I haven't stated my opinion on who wins I just made the thread buddy.

 

[ARGUS]

Itachi wins both scenarios

 

[Kenjamin Bing]

Itachi does not possess a Susano at 1/456th of Madara's power

Jiraiya wins mid diff.

 

[blazekev90]

Jman starts in SM? He stomps. Base Jman pushes Itachi high diff, let alone SM prepped Jman.

 

[KidGamer65]

But what would Itachi's clones be standing on, Lol?

The swamp. It's a liquid, and Shinobi can stand on those by focusing chakra to the feet. Didn't work for Human Path since the swamp was formed right under him. If someone jumps onto the swamp, then there

But I could always be wrong, not really sure about this point.



I haven't stated my opinion on who wins I just made the thread buddy.[/QUOTE]

Well yes, it's impossible to get out by yourself, but that's not the point I'm making here. The point is the snakes couldn't move..period. That's how strong the adhesive of the mud is. That's how great the suction is. Even someone pulling from the outside is going to require a ton of strength to overpower that suction. Itachi has never shown any strength feats that leads me to believe he or his clones have that kind of power.

Suction? That's not how it works. It traps people because movement is limited due to the adhesiveness of the swamp prevents the person who is trapped from making so much movement, and if you can't gather enough strength to get out..you'll be stuck. That has no effect on someone who is pulling the victim out.

Once again, snakes being unable to move is irrelevant to someone being able to pull Itachi out.

Yes, there's katon as well. But that's also assuming(as is the clones pulling Itachi out), that Jiraiya is just gonna sit back and watch.

And what is he going to do exactly?

How are we sure that using the surface walking method even would work here? And again, still have the issue of Jiraiya not just waiting around for this to happen.

We aren't. Shinobi can stand on water though, so it's not impossible.

 

[KidGamer65]

Hmm...what about Ma and Pa using Frog Call to paralyze Itachi, then Jiraiya uses Yomi Numa to sink him while he can't move?

Frog Call won't last as long as it'll take to sink him.

 

[Beans2]

The swamp. It's a liquid, and Shinobi can stand on those by focusing chakra to the feet. Didn't work for Human Path since the swamp was formed right under him. If someone jumps onto the swamp, then there

But I could always be wrong, not really sure about this point.

Suction? That's not how it works. It traps people because movement is limited due to the adhesiveness of the swamp prevents the person who is trapped from making so much movement, and if you can't gather enough strength to get out..you'll be stuck. That has no effect on someone who is pulling the victim out.

Once again, snakes being unable to move is irrelevant to someone being able to pull Itachi out.


And what is he going to do exactly?




We aren't. Shinobi can stand on water though, so it's not impossible.

The swamp wasn't formed right under Human Path, it was formed above him. It worked against gravity, showing that there's some other force at play which literally drags the opponent into the swamp. It's not just turning the earth beneath them into a marsh, because if it was then it would have been totally ineffective against Human Path who would have just fallen out of the swamp (especially with the added weight of the other path hanging on to him).

Why didn't Kabuto focus chakra on his feet against Kurotsuchi's cement jutsu? (Don't say he got caught on purpose because I know he did, if shinobi can counter a technique like that so easily then why did Kurotsuchi even attempt it against him?) There's the

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that contradicts this, but then again, that's literally fodder level and doesn't have the same mechanics that Yomi Numa does.

 

[Beans2]

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>Calls Jiraiya a female
>Jiraiya is literally the biggest womanizer in the manga

Ero Sennin > Itachi in manliness.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Itachi wins med difficulty.

Itachi already displayed while in sound genjutsu he can not only see his surrounding but use his sharingan techs. Frogs get controlled via genjutsu so big summonings aren't a factor here. Jiraiya offence is a giant Rasengan which was already showed in cannon to be no match for a v3 Susanoo hell it was tanked by a rib-cage. ​

 

[Apêx1]

Jiraiya is incapable because he was caught talking to Itachi and Kisame, and this is prior to him having knowledge of Itachi's genjutsu abilities? That's trying to push that scan a bit past what it actually represents, no?

Not really, everyone knows the Uchiha are Genjutsu masters. Yethe still looked into Itschi's ryes, no? So that point stands and firmly at that.

I'm assuming you mean oblivious Jiraiya(if you didn't and simply made a different typo, my apologies), but I'm not sure how he's going to be oblivious to his SM ending. Which does create some issues for Jiraiya, but the biggest asset Fukasaku and Shima give Jiraiya here is Gama Rinsho, and SM is obviously not required for that. So lets assume Shima gets caught(or Fukasaku, whoever), well, SM ends, the toad that's not caught by the genjutsu breaks the other from it while Jiraiya worries about evading/attacking/defending/whatever the case may be.

Yes, Gama Rinsho and Sm are the main things they offer. Gama Rinsho is cancelled by his Genjutdu as is SM, so effectively, Itachi nullifies their presence with Genjutsu. Once they are caught Jiraiya either fires an Amateratsu at the two of them, sends out a flock of crows to put Jiraiya under Genjutsu or simply initiates Susano and throws Yasaka Magatam'a that'll kill Jiraiya.

Bee was caught in the genjutsu prior to being given the advice, which is what prompted Itachi to give the advice

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I agree. Doesn't change my point at the end of the day. Bee is someone who got caught by Sasuke's Genjutsu (sharingan genjutsu) and be still got caught by Itachi's. What's there to say someone with intel won't? Naruto had intel on 3 occasions and got caught by Genjutsu in all 3. Intel doesn't matter much against Itachi, that much should be obvious at this point.

And Asuma and Kurenai did listen(and it was actually Asuma that claimed Gai was the only one that could do it, Kurenai simply pointed out that it was a good idea). They opened their eyes as they told Gai those statements. Then Gai tells them to just get used to it, next page is him handing Kakashi to Kurenai and telling Asuma that they'll fight Itachi and Kisame, then Itachi ends the fight.

Any pages of them actually accomplishing it? Any pages of them being able to fight while looking at the ground? No? I thout so. This scan is helping my argument more than yours, since they couldn't do it regardless of an idiot such as Gai telling them to get used to it; since clearly the couldn't.

Again, Bee didn't get caught after being given the advice, that happened before hand.

Itachi suggested it because anyone who looks into his eyes is bound to end up losing to Tsukiyomi. But again, nothing suggests Bee is capable of fighting without looking into his opponents eyes. I don't see why you keep bringing up scans that don't begin to support your argument. It being suggested by the enemy=\= being possible for the victim.
---

The biggest issue with this argument is this implies the only people capable of fighting Itachi go by the name of Gai,

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, perfect Jins, and the ridiculously OP doujutsu users of the manga(Kaguya, Hagoromo, Nagato, Madara, Sasuke, those types), and just about no one else.

Which is why the DB IV suggests only another Uchiha could defeat Itachi. Which is why he's been branded invincible at so many points in the past. Which is why Kakashi lost to him via Genjutsu. Which is why he put Deidara in Genjutsu with ease. Which is why Sasuke, who's inferior, put Danzo, Cee and Deidara under genjutsu, all of whicj have intel on it. So stop these intel=counter claims and make a genuine argument. Not to mention itachi is often put in top 11, so it's pretty obvious there's a very few that can stand to his Genjutsu.

Your argument turns 99% of the Itachi vs threads in to (they can't avoid his eyes, gg). And I think it's common sense that people of extremely high skill levels would be capable of adapting to fighting sharingan users, but you know what? Maybe not. Maybe there's no point in discussing any Itachi vs thread here on out that doesn't involve Gai, possibly Kakashi, or one of the ridiculously overpowered people that I stated above(and I'm sure I left a name or two off).

Kakashi has a Sharingan, people who fight from long range are slight counters. But at the end of the day most Itachi VS threads end in Itachi winning via Genjutsu. So you are right in one way. Itachi's Genjutsu versatility is too much, you not liking that is none of my concern, because frankly I don't care if you don't like it. Make an argument instead of resorting to conjecture, because up to now all your points are conjecture.

@Beansandcornbread, you have a point, Dust cloud will counter Sharingan view then (I'll give it the benefit of the doubt of being thick enough).

 

[Ambivalence]

Really? Again?

Itachi low-diffs Jiraiya starting in base.

Itachi mid-diffs Jiraiya starting in SM

Itachi mid/high-diffs Jiraiya w/o V4 Susano'o, Yata and Totsuka.

The only time Jiraiya had a chance against Itachi was in 2009, when Itachi's abilities were completely unknown and everyone believed Kisame's ridiculous statement that Jiraiya > Itachi + Kisame + Akatsuki-level reinforcements (still facepalming to this very day for that hype).

 

[BLAZE]

Really? Again?

Itachi low-diffs Jiraiya starting in base.

Itachi mid-diffs Jiraiya starting in SM

Itachi mid/high-diffs Jiraiya w/o V4 Susano'o, Yata and Totsuka.

The only time Jiraiya had a chance against Itachi was in 2009, when Itachi's abilities were completely unknown and everyone believed Kisame's ridiculous statement that Jiraiya > Itachi + Kisame + Akatsuki-level reinforcements (still facepalming to this very day for that hype).

I his right here

 

[Conspirator.]

Itachi wins it.

 

[ᖇ α z m α η]

Jiraiya, since he's starting at sage mode .​

 

[KidGamer65]

The swamp wasn't formed right under Human Path, it was formed above him. It worked against gravity, showing that there's some other force at play which literally drags the opponent into the swamp. It's not just turning the earth beneath them into a marsh, because if it was then it would have been totally ineffective against Human Path who would have just fallen out of the swamp (especially with the added weight of the other path hanging on to him).

If it's an adhesive swamp, which it is, if he's capable of walking on the walls (Which is already defying gravity right there) whatever he's walking on becoming an adhesive swamp means that he's going to sink in. But yeah, of course something

Why didn't Kabuto focus chakra on his feet against Kurotsuchi's cement jutsu? (Don't say he got caught on purpose because I know he did, if shinobi can counter a technique like that so easily then why did Kurotsuchi even attempt it against him?) There's the Kotetsu and Izumo example that contradicts this, but then again, that's literally fodder level and doesn't have the same mechanics that Yomi Numa does

I don't even remember what the bold refers to.

 

[Joki]

>Talks about bias.

>Says Jiraiya mid, probably low, diffs Itachi.

Lol. That irony.

Was lurking for the first time in forever, and didn't expect to actually post, but dear god man. What you called out as biased is literally what happens 99% in this matchup. You can't come from an extremely biased, irrational point of view where Itachi is god then call out the reasonable side as being extreme when you know you're wrong. You're all so far tipped to the extreme right side of the scale, that anything in the middle of it actually appears on the far left extreme side to your deluded eyes.

Anyway, Jiraiya is the one that needs to be restricted here, not Itachi, and he was restricted TERRIBLY. Jiraiya wins round 1 with low medium difficulty at absolute best, and he utterly annihilates round 2 without the slightest shred of effort. Of course it's all proven through manga fact but I don't expect anyone even attempt to prove otherwise. Not that anyone could even if they wanted to of course for reasons that are all too common.

Because it's set in stone as fact on paper already, the only thing that will come from an argument of this matchup ultimately is an angry denial or concession from Itachi supporters. It's the unfortunate truth no matter which character you like more. I don't want to go off on a tangent but people need to realize this more often: VS matches are not a very tangible thing. Once you've reached the skill ceiling of comprehending the manga, and you've memorized every single event that happens in it in order, memorized most of everything Kishi has ever said regarding his series in interviews, DB etc, memorized most DB entries and much more--whether that's sad or not--you'll come to realize that (assuming you're unbiased) most matches are very very obvious. The thing is, the paper has already been written, there's no more new information, nothing will ever change and in most cases it's black and white if you'd just set aside your personal preferences(and the opinions of others that may have wrongly influenced you) you'll come to see that Itachi has no logical way to defeat Jiraiya, it just doesn't exist. Analyze every page and you will be deluding yourself further, you're looking for all the wrong things, look for evidence of both characters then decide Jiraiya wins. Don't look at all the pages trying to find evidence that Itachi does win, because he doesn't and if you're convinced he would you're far worse off.

This is all unrelated to this matchup though, I'm more talking about them in general without these terrible, terrible restrictions set on the already-inferior of the two. This match is already settled and we can all agree anyone who matters also agrees it's a pretty hard stomp in Jiraiya's favor. This black and white logic also works with most matchups though. Common sense also plays a big part which is why you need to be unbiased first of all. But anyway all of what I just typed is slightly off topic despite being 100% true, so moving on. But hopefully someone can gain something from that small bit of insight(read: facts) from someone who literally no lifed the entire manga 98473 times in a row.

I know Itachi is one of the most popular characters in the manga but to breed this much obliviousness from most posters? It is quite sad to say the least. I'll accept the people who read the manga quick, fap to Itachi then say he's unbeatable then go lol he wins neg diff and then never post again, since those kinds of people are irrelevant for obvious reasons. But even named posters here, who wrongly claim to have thoroughly studied the manga are constantly denying manga fact to not concede on their points which are VERY clearly wrong. You'd think when someone says they're unbiased they actually are... but when you have to emphasize so much that you are something in a case like this, it's usually in desperation to get people to believe that you are, because you actually aren't.

Itachi stands absolutely no chance against Jiraiya on normal circumstances but this matchup is ridiculously unbalanced in his favor. I'm saying this with the utmost sincerity, please actually pay attention to what the manga says and realize how horrible of a stomp this is. And to those boasting full Itachi sets especially, put aside your intense love for him aside for a few seconds and contrast it with what's actually true, maybe you'll discover something, or maybe the stubbornness will continue(it probably will) and me even writing all this in the first place was pointless.

you know, if I hadn't accidentally clicked on NB in my bookmarks and decided to scroll down, or if I didn't click this thread I wouldn't even have posted and could have saved 10 minutes of my life. But smh the sheer disregard for logic was too astounding so I had to say something, however pointless it may turn out to be.

>Calls Jiraiya a female
>Jiraiya is literally the biggest womanizer in the manga

Ero Sennin > Itachi in manliness.

Easily the best post in the thread, I believe that's all that really matters. We're done here boys.