[VS] Ems Sasuke vs 3rd Raikage
- Thread starter LoZelda101
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Nagato/Tobi could barely
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. That's like saying Nagato had access to limbo clone since he had his Eyes. You make no sense. Kakashi needed Rikudo Chakra just to use PS etc.What states his Tomoe rinnagan can be MS and EMS with out switching? Nothing but baseless claims and contradiction. He doesn't have to change it. He cannonly uses Susanoo with rinngan. Fact of manga. Sasuke Cannonly uses A EMS/MS tech with out showing it and can use the new tech Ameno in the same eye. I have facts that susanoo is possible with out the showing of EMS correct? I have facts of AMA' being used with out the showing of EMS correct? Disprove them facts than we can continue.
I nvr talked about PS aka the true power
i said susanoo.nagato should have been able to use ribcage at least.dunno why are u bringing limbo when even edo madara couldn't use it let alone nagato
Fact Both Madara and Obito[
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] use Sharingan/MS/EMS to cast Ocular genjutsu nvr once used Rinnegan to do itFact Nagato nvr used Ocular Genjutsu
Oh wow he did use Susanoo without eyes so Blind Madara has precog and ocular genjutsu nice
Sasuke can also use Genjutsu with same eyes while Madara and Obito nvr had.
It is crystal clear Madara even resorted to use EMS rather than casting genjutsu with Rinnegan
Madara used it without eyes [
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] Itachi used it when his MS almost faded [
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] so dunno how are you saying using Susanoo with Rinnegan means Rinnegan can grant you either precog or GenjutsuNo you are the one making them
Like madara knew about susanoo when he used it first or Itachi knew about susanoo when he used it or hell even Indra knew about susanoo when he used it first
Talking about MS/EMS/Sharingan jutsu
If u think limbo is one i can't help you
You are the one contradicting yourself saying Rinnegan granted madara sharingan/MS/EMS precog and MS/EMS prowess when Madara canonically resorted to using EMS to cast genjutsu
Bring me a scan of any user using Ocualr genjutsu with Rinnegan rather than saying they can use it via Rinnegan but nvr did so becoz of lulz
Absolutely you are wasting your time by trying to pass nonsense as fact
Talking about Sharingan/MS/EMS not Rinnegan
You are the one who stated Rinnegan grants the user MS/EMS precog prowess
What are you saying you are the one who was using susanoo as an example to pass a nonsense as fact
Exactly And your point is
So you are saying that sasuke casted a powerfull Rinnehgan genjutsu meaning Not even a single Rinnegan can cast sharingan genjutsu including madara's good
As NX28 already said Sasuke couldn't use Amaterasu when his tomoe vanished so yeah he needs Tomoe Rinnegan to cast Amaterasu
Baseless claim is what you have made
So bring a single scan of Rinnegan having Precog and then we can talk till then don't quote
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4 Sword Style
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Just saying. How do you expect Madara to use any MS jutsu with his Rinnegan when the only one he has is Susano'O lol
Nagato doesn't know how to use Sharingan jutsu nor is he an Uchiha. So he's not really relevant
Nagato doesn't know how to use Sharingan jutsu nor is he an Uchiha. So he's not really relevant
4 Sword Style
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Never implied/said it couldn't. A single scan of Madara's clone using EMS instead of Rinnegan doesn't prove anything
I don't even think any of the clones even had Rinnegan on
No you didn't. Amaterasu consumes and burns through the Black Lightning with ease.
Iso Susano'o is simply manifesting your PS to form a suit of armor around Kurama. Madara and Sasuke both manifested PS, hence why their Susano'o retained traits exclusive to PS and shaped it around Kurama. Your next point doesn't make sense as Sasuke was shown manifesting PS before it even engulfed Naruto's Avatar and if Sasuke did need Naruto's help, then both Avatars would've manifested at the same time even though that was shown not to be the case. Sasuke's PS <<< Madara's PS is irrelevant as Sasuke displayed similar usage of his EMS as Madara did. The only difference is Sasuke's Chakra Volume and Potency, but the ability to use their EMS remained the same.
Choku Tomoes isn't simply EMS. It's simply a connection that extended far beyond just being Uchihas as Madara which alludes to the fact that it was because they're Indra Transmigrants.
And no, Madara sensed the Chakra within Sasuke's eyes. I recalled the sensation and commented on his eyes having the Choku Tomoe. How else did he know he had the Choku Tomoes?
Nope, it was witnessing Sasuke's Ocular Ability such as Manifesting a Large Susano'o and managing it to use Senjutsu is what had Tobirama comment on Sasuke's potential being >> Madara's. Initially, Tobirama didn't think anything of it until which leads to the fact that it was Sasuke's ability to use his EMS is what led to Tobirama making that comment.
That's like saying Naruto's experience in Senjutsu doesn't compare to Jiraiya's because he hasn't had as much experience with Senjutsu than Jiraiya did. Fact of the matter is, Sasuke did use his EMS on a level on par with Madara's unless you can disprove it.
If EMS Sasuke's strike speed wasn't so great, then how did EMS Sasuke even force him on the defensive? You're also wrong when his Precognition wasn't noted, but the way his body moves:
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Which incorporates both Reaction timing and Reaction speed.
Sasuke's Susano'o isn't slow and I'm not sure where you're getting that from. If SM Naruto could side-step Sandaime Raikage at point-blank range, what's preventing EMS Sasuke from evading his linear-strikes and striking him down with Susano'o which possesses superior speed than his own strike speed. If EMS Sasuke >> SM Naruto in terms of physical reflexes, then his Susano'o easily tags Sandaime Raikage as EMS Sasuke w/ Susano'o >> EMS Sasuke.
KCM Naruto doesn't have the necessary synapses needed to tag Sandaime Raikage which is how he failed while the slower SM Naruto didn't have that issue which is why he tagged him. EMS Sasuke has higher movement speed (bar Shunshin) than KCM Naruto and superior Perception than SM Naruto, so KCM Naruto failing to tag Sandaime Raikage is not proof that EMS Sasuke can't.
Raikage lunged at Sasuke and Sasuke did the same. Raikage missed and Sasuke struck Raikage as Raikage was completing his strike. How about you reread the manga. Raikage wasn't stationary and I can't believe you pulled up such a bs argument like that.
Actually, SM Naruto could hardly move. He only rose his arms in the time it took Blind Madara to flicker 15m compared to EMS Sasuke who pressured SM Madara to the point where he couldn't outplay EMS Sasuke in speed and had to fight defensively instead. Hardly changes my point.
EMS Sasuke still rose his arms up and managed to withstand the flames at point-blank compared to SM Naruto who was getting pushed back and took noticeable damage from it. Nice comparison. EMS Sasuke still outperformed SM Naruto here. :lol
Nice way of contradicting yourself. You admitted that Madara atleast respected EMS Sasuke's Precognition and yet you're blowing off Madara's statement of him moving well by stating that he only wanted his pair of eyes. What's funny is that Madara wasn't even thinking about using his eyes until after he sensed Sasuke's Choku Tomoe meaning that it wasn't because Sasuke had he had the Sharingan, but actually how powerful his eyes actually are.
KCM Naruto doesn't have better perception than SM Naruto. Is that why SM Naruto tagged Sandaime Raikage while the faster KCM Naruto couldn't tag V1 Raikage? :lol Kabuto being in control has nothing to do with Sandaime Raikage's ability to move and react, so I'm not sure why you brought it up. It doesn't at all take away from the fact that SM Naruto evaded Sandaime Raikage's own speed.
In a manga where Ninja can pluck in random eyeballs into their sockets or Itachi implanting Shisui's dead eye onto a crow, this is certainly acceptable. Madara literally implanted his Rinnegan onto Nagato and despite the Optic nerve not even being connected to his eyes, his vision was still perfectly intact, so what you're saying is completely irrelevant.
Because it takes time to register the loss of vision in 1 eye, so being attentive enables Danzo to realize when one of the eyes closes almost instantly. It took Sasuke a few panels to realize that his vision had diminished as well:
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He commented on Danzo's inferior usage of his Sharingan compared to Sasuke's as the reason why Danzo lost the fight and Danzo didn't have access to Shisui's eye until after that instant was over. Seriously, did you even try to understand the context of the statement before even posting it? Ei also couldn't do anything offensively against the Susano'o and Sasuke had feats that enabled him to track Juubito and even had similar reaction timing and reaction speed (when using Susano'o) as BSM Naruto does, so Sandaime Raikage easily gets tagged.
I already showed facts and you chose to ignore it.
Susano'o is an ability that relies on the Power of the User's eyes, so as EMS Sasuke's Dojutsu and Chakra improved, so did his Susano'o. I hope you're not implying that even Rikudou Sasuke's Susano'o is as fast as MS Sasuke's Susano'o as that would literally lead to the implication that Rikudou Sasuke can out-speed his own Susano'o.
I also didn't even state the bs you're spewing out right now. That's you putting words in my mouth.
Unfortunately for you, nothing indicates that Sandaime Raikage slowed down, only that he with-held his strike and resorted to a normal punch:
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Raikage also was over an arms-length away from Naruto, so it wasn't just strike speed.
Madara couldn't tag Ei and catch him in a Genjutsu when he was up against the Gokage and was toying around with them. What you're referring to are the clones regardless, so the clones needing to catch Raikage off-guard to catch him in a Genjutsu does not mean that the original Madara cannot catch him in a Genjutsu. If EMS Sasuke can track Juubito, he can easily keep track of Sandaime Raikage and catch him in a Genjutsu.
The first 3 are all ninja who are much faster and more perceptive than Dodai.
Half/Dead Obito was also being controlled through Madara's Chakra and those Rods are a manifestation of Madara's Will meaning those rods reacted to Susano'os Arrow based on Madara's Will, not Half/Dead Obito's reactions, not to mention that it was a significant distance seeing as how tiny Sasuke's Susano'o was:
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Good, so you admit that Kabuto could be attentive to Sasuke's attacks due to his Sensing and as I stated before, Kabuto knew Sasuke would attack due to Sasuke always defending Itachi and the fact that he's shown general concern over Itachi's well-being. Try refuting that before skipping my argument in hopes that I won't notice, okay. :lol
Reread my scan. He was caught off-guard, hence the exclamation mark. Can't make things any clearer than that.
My point was however, that Inexperienced EMS Sasuke's Susano'o >> MS Sasuke's as Danzo perceived MS Sasuke's Susano'o much earlier than SM Kabuto did and SM Kabuto >> Danzo. The fact that SM Kabuto whose >> Sandaime Raikage "barely" perceived his Susano'os Arm means Sandaime Raikage gets caught as SM Kabuto only noticed until the last minute.
Those were Madara's clones which aren't a representation of Madara's actual strength. Not even sure why you're using that as an argument when I argued that Sasuke can just evade Sandaime Raikage's speed and capture him when he's most vulnerable.
And yes, Sasuke is superior to those clones when Sasuke could force Juubito on the defensive with his own Susano'o.
Sasuke was never owned by SM Madara. Quit making things up. :lol
Madara subduing EMS Sasuke with Limbo isn't degrading EMS Sasuke's reflexes as you can't react to something that you have no way of seeing or sensing. This is common sense.
Nope, because when SM Madara relied solely on speed and reflexes, he couldn't subdue EMS Sasuke yet he trashed Tobirama. He was forced to use Limbo to trash EMS Sasuke which meant that EMS Sasuke was too fast to the point where Madara had no way of exploiting Sasuke's blind-side attack the same way he did against Tobirama.
Sasuke used Amaterasu through his Rinnegan due to having a Tomoe Rinnegan which is a variant similar to Kaguya's RinneSharingan which enabled her to use both the Rinnegan and the Sharingan's powers through the same eye. The Tomoes themselves are an indication of that as when Sasuke loses his Tomoes, he is incapable of using the Sharingan's abilities through his Rinnegan. Madara doesn't have those Tomoes and so thus, he doesn't have Precognition in his Rinnegan.
It also doesn't matter if that were Tobi as if the Rinnegan's natural ability was Precognition, it would've been noted, but it's not. It's Precognitive ability is through Shared Vision which has been emphasized many times in the manga and by cutting it off, it significantly diminishes the user's reactions. Edo Madara did not have Shared Vision and so thus, lacked any form of Precognition. Quit denying it and start refuting my argument as I'm seriously going piece by piece through your argument and am actually refuting it.
Juubidara's Limbo Clones matching RSM Naruto and Rikudou Sasuke doesn't prove your point and I fail to see how this is relevant.
Rinnegan has never used an MS jutsu outside of Sasuke's Tomoe Rinnegan which is obviously an exception. Once Sasuke's Tomoes had disappeared, he could no longer use any Mangekyo techniques indicating that the Tomoes are a representation of the user's ability to use the Sharingan's prowess through their Rinnegan.
Your example is stupid as Sasuke was only able to use his Precognition through his actual Sharingan, not the affected Rinnegan that lacked the Tomoes. Nice comparison. I clearly stated that without the Tomoes, he couldn't use the Sharingan's abilities through his Rinnegan. No where did I state that Sasuke couldn't use his other Sharingan when that happens. Try reading my post more thoroughly next time.
His hair wasn't spiked up like it was here:
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Here:
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or Here:
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So noting art style difference such as negligible differences such as his hair doesn't matter at all when other pieces in the manga points towards Raikage using his max speed against Madara as that's a more logical conclusion as opposed to holding back against an Uchiha who possesses greater strength than Taka Sasuke.
Doesn't matter. Edo Madara still mentally processed and rose his arms up to guard V2 Raikage and all that was done while he was an inch away from his face . Edo Madara was also in the air, so had he not been, he could've easily evaded his strike if he had wanted to. Sandaime Raikage is much slower, and EMS Sasuke is much more perceptive than Edo Madara, so him being able to evade his strike shouldn't be a problem given Edo Madara's performance against V2 Raikage.
Yes because as opposed to actually trying to attack the Susano'o clones, he was forced to block the Susano'o clones fist instead ...
No I didn't because I disproved your argument.
Bijuu Skin is also composed of one of the most powerful Chakras seen in the NarutoVerse, so keep that in mind before commenting on how Amaterasu didn't completely burn through the Hachibi.
All that states is that Enton uses the same flames. However, if you read the manga, you'd realize that the efficiency of Amaterasu is heightened when the user is focusing on the object they're targeting which is made clear here:
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Also notice how C states that Amaterasu ignites whatever he's looking at yet Sasuke wasn't even focused on the Samurai? All you've proven is that Enton Kagutsuchi is the manipulation of Amaterasu's flames which isn't something I denied at all.
And even then, Itachi's Amaterasu despite being almost Blind managed to engulf Sasuke's Senjutsu Enhanced Katon which should be capable of burning through the Samurai's Clad of Armor. Put this in perspective, Itachi's Amaterasu burned through Sasuke's CS2 Wing which is much more durable than the Samurai's Armor as it tanked a C2 Explosion and Itachi's Katon which isn't that far off from Sasuke's Katon seeing as how Sasuke's Katon barely pushed it back. Given that, does it really make sense to you that Amaterasu cannot bust through simple armor?
The team talked, that's true, but Raikage felt that the Enton was such a hindrance that he needed to actually heal his arm as opposed to defeating Sasuke with another Kage's help. Seems clear that Raikage was rendered useless with a burnt arm.
No you didn't. You merely showed that Amaterasu was useless because he blocked and I proved that Juubito was forced to block it because it would've burnt through his entire body or at least dealt significant damage if he didn't block it.
No you don't as I refuted all of your arguments. Please reread the manga, will you? :lol
If he screamed in pain, then it means it burnt through his armor. :lol
Already refuted why the Samurai was merely hit by something similar to an Enton.
If the Flames inflicted pain, then that means the Hachibi suffered noticeable damage meaning it did have an affect on him and we know the Hachibi's body is composed of one of the most powerful Chakras in the NV meaning that Amaterasu inflicted pain towards one of the most durable beings in the manga.
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Reread. He stated that he thought of the plan instinctively which meant that that thought was formed as a result to being overwhelmed by Amaterasu. Additionally, B stated that Sasuke was the strongest guy he's ever faced:
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So given that, it makes a lot more sense that B left due to Sasuke's strength because if B had the upper-hand before manifesting the Hachibi, then he should've just finished the fight with his Bijuu Mode yet that was not the case. It's also important to note that B has faced Minato, so Sasuke was Minato's superior and Minato alone could pressure Ei and that was just with MS Sasuke as well. EMS Sasuke is much stronger, so him outplaying Sandaime Raikage let alone the 4th should certainly be possible.
The only difference is that the speed at which Amaterasu burns through the object is heightened through having more potent chakra.
Rikudou Chakra enhancing Amaterasu as I stated before, is the result of being a more potent chakra which is why Pa mentioned Senjutsu increasing Naruto's own Ninjutsu due to its Volume and Potency:
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So if Sage Chakra's Potency increases the power of one's Ninjutsu, it's only logical that Rikudou Chakra does the same to Sasuke due to it's potency.
If Rikudou Chakra was significantly weaker than Sasuke's own Chakra, do you think his own Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, and Genjutsu would have as much of an impact as it would if it were significantly stronger than his own Chakra? Food for thought.
Already refuted all of your examples yet you keep spewing a bunch of bs. I guess I'm done here if you are as making all of these long posts to refute your bs is killing me.
But of course, I will still debate with you as I must defend Lord Sasuke.
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So Rinnegan can use it and madara still needs to resort to EMS to cast genjutsu hmm
Must be dumb
and you are obviously wrong
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4 Sword Style
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And using EMS for Genjutsu still doesn't prove anything. It's a baseless assumption based on a clone using EMS lol
4 Sword Style
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One little thing I wanted to bring up. You said that SM Naruto had the easier time because of reactions, which isn't entirely true.
The reason SM Naruto was able to tag the Raikage easier is because the situations were reversed compared to KCM Naruto. With the former merely dodging while the latter was attacking.
Naruto's statement doesn't imply he has better reactions either, merely SM Naruto's sensing is better (because KCM doesn't have chakra sensing). Combine that with the fact that all he had to do was dodge a linear attack and of course he's going to have an easier time
Your stamtent later on about SM Naruto having a hard time blocking Madara while Sasuke pressured backs this notion up to, because KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke were relatively close in speed other than body flicker
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4 Sword Style
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That's like me asking for you to give a scan of Sasuke's EMS giving him precog. This was never completely illustrated other than the time VOTE1 Sasuke used it
Are you trolling bruh :| [
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][
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]Madara's Rinnegan has nvr shown or mentioned to have precog .Neither Obito or Nagato showed it.All it has shown is shared vision
The manga specifically clarified it [
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4 Sword Style
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First scan is just a close up of his eyes. I can show similar scans for Rinnegan. Second is just him praising how he moves
The Jinchuriki didn't actually have Rinnegan, that's just a product of the shared vision with Obito. Unless you think he found 6 other Rinnegan somewhere