[VS] Ems Sasuke vs 3rd Raikage

[Draegod]

EMS is a higher level of the Sharingan, so of course it has Precognition. This doesn't even need to be stated in the manga for people to know this.

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Neither MS or EMS were ever in the manga stated to have Peecog. EVER! But since they are higher versions of the previous stage they were known to have it. Fact, Rinnegan his the higher level. According to your retarded post you just proved our point. Or show where it was ever stated MS or EMS have Precog,,. Exactly!

 

[NarutoX28]

Rinnegan is an evolution of the Sharingan which uses a different KKG and is considered to be an entirely different Dojutsu from the Sharingan.

MS and EMS are evolutions of the Sharingan, but utilize the same KKG and are considered to be the same Dojutsu.

If you want to imply that Sasuke w/o Precognition can track a Juubi Jin, then be my guest. I don't really care what kind of argument you'll come up with to justify your point.

 

[King Of Pop]

First scan is just a close up of his eyes. I can show similar scans for Rinnegan. Second is just him praising how he moves

The Jinchuriki didn't actually have Rinnegan, that's just a product of the shared vision with Obito. Unless you think he found 6 other Rinnegan somewhere

da fuk? that close up is to emphasize him using his eyes to track obitos movement same way naruto was able to sense him and thats why they both finally tagged him. smh stop, you sound desperate now

If you want to imply that Sasuke w/o Precognition can track a Juubi Jin, then be my guest. I don't really care what kind of argument you'll come up with to justify your point.

lol thats basically what they are saying.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lol why are people ITT arguing that Rinnegan doesn't have precognition (at least when used by an Uchiha who awakened it) when Madara can see through Clones using his Rinnegan. That's an ability he had with his Sharingan. A perception based ability. So there's no reason why he wouldn't have precognition with Rinnegan either.

Genjutsu is completely different and 100% irrelevant.

 

[Icelerate]

Lol why are people ITT arguing that Rinnegan doesn't have precognition (at least when used by an Uchiha who awakened it) when Madara can see through Clones using his Rinnegan. That's an ability he had with his Sharingan. A perception based ability. So there's no reason why he wouldn't have precognition with Rinnegan either.

Genjutsu is completely different and 100% irrelevant.

This example is a good one.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Third Raikage wins with his finger up in Sasuke's ass and then he cuts that finger to avoid the amaterasu fire from spreading to his entire body.

 

[LoZelda101]

Lol why are people ITT arguing that Rinnegan doesn't have precognition (at least when used by an Uchiha who awakened it) when Madara can see through Clones using his Rinnegan. That's an ability he had with his Sharingan. A perception based ability. So there's no reason why he wouldn't have precognition with Rinnegan either.

Genjutsu is completely different and 100% irrelevant.

eh, doesn't byakugan have that same ability as well? all 3 should be able to see through clones and see chakra (some better than others). still doesn't mean rinnegan possess the predictive features of the sharingan regardless if it's by an uchiha or not. sasuke can't even use mangekyou feats unless his rinnegan is fully charged when the sharingan tomoes appear. which is probably why kishi gave him just one rinnegan oppose to two so he can keep that precog/ gen no matter what.

 

[NarutoX28]

Rinnegan has multiple perception abilities such as Shared Vision, Heightened Field of Vision, and the ability to perceive Chakra, so using Madara's ability to see through clones as a means to prove that he has Precognition is entirely false, not to mention that Precognition and Visual Genjutsu is a basic ability of the Sharingan, so Edo Madara being unable to use it through the Rinnegan to me suggests that he also lacks Precognition as well.

 

[LoZelda101]

Rinnegan has multiple perception abilities such as Shared Vision, Heightened Field of Vision, and the ability to perceive Chakra, so using Madara's ability to see through clones as a means to prove that he has Precognition is entirely false, not to mention that Precognition and Visual Genjutsu is a basic ability of the Sharingan, so Edo Madara being unable to use it through the Rinnegan to me suggests that he also lacks Precognition as well.

also explain why rinnesharingan is top tier for possessing both rinne and sharingan feats instead of separate like it's watered down versions.

 

[BLAZE]

First scan is just a close up of his eyes. I can show similar scans for Rinnegan. Second is just him praising how he moves

Don't quote ever again

Lol why are people ITT arguing that Rinnegan doesn't have precognition (at least when used by an Uchiha who awakened it) when Madara can see through Clones using his Rinnegan. That's an ability he had with his Sharingan. A perception based ability. So there's no reason why he wouldn't have precognition with Rinnegan either.

Genjutsu is completely different and 100% irrelevant.

Eh when was this

 

[neosmith500]

Eh when was this

Madara said he was the only one able to "see " through hashi's clones in the "past" before rinnegan and probably MS/EMS.

 

[BLAZE]

Madara said he was the only one able to "see " through hashi's clones in the "past" before rinnegan and probably MS/EMS.

wasn't he talking specifically about Mokuton bunshin [

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]
"see through this"
will try to find viz

 

[KidGamer65]

eh, doesn't byakugan have that same ability as well? all 3 should be able to see through clones and see chakra (some better than others). still doesn't mean rinnegan possess the predictive features of the sharingan regardless if it's by an uchiha or not. sasuke can't even use mangekyou feats unless his rinnegan is fully charged when the sharingan tomoes appear. which is probably why kishi gave him just one rinnegan oppose to two so he can keep that precog/ gen no matter what.

No, Byakugan doesn't have that ability. Only Madara's Sharingan does. All 3 being able to see through clones is something that is obviously false. I've addressed the rest below.

Rinnegan has multiple perception abilities such as Shared Vision, Heightened Field of Vision, and the ability to perceive Chakra, so using Madara's ability to see through clones as a means to prove that he has Precognition is entirely false, not to mention that Precognition and Visual Genjutsu is a basic ability of the Sharingan, so Edo Madara being unable to use it through the Rinnegan to me suggests that he also lacks Precognition as well.

Irrelevant. Irrelevant and irrelevant because those are Rinnegan abilities. How does Madara's Rinnegan having it's own set of perception based abilities mean that it can't use his Sharingan's abilities? I'll wait for an explanation. What's worse is that:

-Shared Vision isn't perception based in the same sense as anything listed here. It only lets the user see out of different eyes.

-Heightened Field of Vision is fanfic. This isn't Byakugan. In fact this and Shared Vision are literally the same thing.

Being able to see chakra is the only thing you have. Visual Genjutsu and Precognition have nothing to do with each other so being unable to use one doesn't matter. Visual Genjutsu is a basic ability of the Sharingan, yet Madara switched to EMS to use it. However he can use the Mangekyo's strongest technique (Susanoo) without having to switch back. So that's enough to tell you that this comparison is flawed.


-He retained a visual perception based ability from his Sharingan (Ability to see through clones)
-So there's no reason he wouldn't be able to use precognition.

Don't quote ever again
Eh when was this

wasn't he talking specifically about Mokuton bunshin [

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]
"see through this"
will try to find viz

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[BLAZE]

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i thought madara took a guess over there considering later on he asked obito to take care of naruto and kakashi above them [

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] but couldn't identify it was kagebumshin until it poofed [

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][

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and which sasuke do u think can defeat 3rd Prime MS,EMS[legged Susanoo restricted],EMS[PS restricted]

or does he needs PS to win

 

[LoZelda101]

No, Byakugan doesn't have that ability. Only Madara's Sharingan does. All 3 being able to see through clones is something that is obviously false. I've addressed the rest below.



Irrelevant. Irrelevant and irrelevant because those are Rinnegan abilities. How does Madara's Rinnegan having it's own set of perception based abilities mean that it can't use his Sharingan's abilities? I'll wait for an explanation. What's worse is that:

-Shared Vision isn't perception based in the same sense as anything listed here. It only lets the user see out of different eyes.

-Heightened Field of Vision is fanfic. This isn't Byakugan. In fact this and Shared Vision are literally the same thing.

Being able to see chakra is the only thing you have. Visual Genjutsu and Precognition have nothing to do with each other so being unable to use one doesn't matter. Visual Genjutsu is a basic ability of the Sharingan, yet Madara switched to EMS to use it. However he can use the Mangekyo's strongest technique (Susanoo) without having to switch back. So that's enough to tell you that this comparison is flawed.


-He retained a visual perception based ability from his Sharingan (Ability to see through clones)
-So there's no reason he wouldn't be able to use precognition.

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But susanoo isn't connected with sharingan once it's unlocked. That is why madara was able to use susanoo with no eyes and sasuke was able to use susanoo with 3T sharingan in boruto movie. Infact in this scan it directly seperate the two feats between rinne and sharingan. If madara can use precog cause he's uchiha then ok i guess but anyone else should not be able to including nagato.

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[KidGamer65]

But susanoo isn't connected with sharingan once it's unlocked. That is why madara was able to use susanoo with no eyes and sasuke was able to use susanoo with 3T sharingan in boruto movie. Infact in this scan it directly seperate the two feats between rinne and sharingan. If madara can use precog cause he's uchiha then ok i guess but anyone else should not be able to including nagato.

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-Sasuke using Susanoo w/ 3-T Sharingan is not only an animation error, Sharingan is still active.
-Madara is a whole different case. He was using something that might've been Preta Path without his eyes.

When Sasuke's vision went bad his Sharingan disappeared and his Susanoo vanished. That scan doesn't matter because there's no reason the Edo Jins would have a Sharingan ability with those Rinnegan when:

1. They are projections of Obito's eye.
2. They didn't awaken those eyes, thus they don't have the powers of the Sharingan it originated from.

Madara can see clones w/ Rinnegan, that's a Sharingan ability. No reason why precognition would be unavailable to him. And yes, I agree that Nagato shouldn't be able to make use of anything Sharingan related as he didn't awaken the eyes.

i thought madara took a guess over there considering later on he asked obito to take care of naruto and kakashi above them [

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] but couldn't identify it was kagebumshin until it poofed [

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][

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]

and which sasuke do u think can defeat 3rd Prime MS,EMS[legged Susanoo restricted],EMS[PS restricted]

or does he needs PS to win

He clearly said "this one's a Kagebunshin". Not much room for debate here.

MS Sasuke is enough to defeat the Raikage, EMS w/o PS or Legged comfortably wins and anything above might as well be a stomp.

 

[NarutoX28]

Irrelevant. Irrelevant and irrelevant because those are Rinnegan abilities. How does Madara's Rinnegan having it's own set of perception based abilities mean that it can't use his Sharingan's abilities? I'll wait for an explanation. What's worse is that.

Nope, that's a sign that the Rinnegan also has a variety of perception abilities and that ability could be exclusive to Madara's own Rinnegan, much like Limbo is an exclusive technique for Madara. Now, if Madara's ability to see through clones was considered one of Madara's MS techniques, then you'd have a point, but it's not, so that technique doesn't necessarily have to do with his Sharingan.

-Shared Vision isn't perception based in the same sense as anything listed here. It only lets the user see out of different eyes.

Nope, it enhances one's perception which is why it was emphasized here:

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And why Naruto had to cut off the other Path's Shared Vision to defeat Animal Path, the slowest of the Paths.

-Heightened Field of Vision is fanfic. This isn't Byakugan. In fact this and Shared Vision are literally the same thing.

Not necessarily:

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It also explains why War Arc Obito could perfectly react to Gai's, KCM Naruto's, and Kakashi's attacks coming from multiple different directions.

Being able to see chakra is the only thing you have. Visual Genjutsu and Precognition have nothing to do with each other so being unable to use one doesn't matter. Visual Genjutsu is a basic ability of the Sharingan, yet Madara switched to EMS to use it. However he can use the Mangekyo's strongest technique (Susanoo) without having to switch back. So that's enough to tell you that this comparison is flawed.

Nope. Visual Genjutsu and Precognition are both basic abilities of the Sharingan and are tied to the exact same KKG. If Madara cannot use such a basic ability of the Sharingan through the Rinnegan, why should I assume that Madara could use Precognition through his Rinnegan? That's not even mentioning how Gaiden Sasuke was shown not using Precognition through his Rinnegan when his Rinnegan was recovering which is certainly not coincidental. Additionally, it's not a coincidence that Sasuke was the only one shown using Genjutsu using his Rinnegan as a medium whereas Madara couldn't. Using the Sharingan's abilities through the Rinnegan is clearly shown to be something exclusive to Tomoe Rinnegan.

The other part is irrelevant when Itachi had access to his Strongest Ocular Technique despite literally being blind.

-He retained a visual perception based ability from his Sharingan (Ability to see through clones)

He used a visual perception ability that we have no knowledge about. If it were a Sharingan technique exclusive to Madara, then it would've been a Mangekyo technique except it's never specified as such, so making the assumption that it's a technique originating from Indra's KKG is false.

-So there's no reason he wouldn't be able to use precognition.

Plenty of reasons.

I also liked how another member specified how Madara couldn't perceive SM Naruto being a clone. Perhaps this was a technique learned specifically to combat Hashirama's Mokuton Feints?

 

[KidGamer65]

Nope, that's a sign that the Rinnegan also has a variety of perception abilities and that ability could be exclusive to Madara's own Rinnegan, much like Limbo is an exclusive technique for Madara. Now, if Madara's ability to see through clones was considered one of Madara's MS techniques, then you'd have a point, but it's not, so that technique doesn't necessarily have to do with his Sharingan.

Irrelevant and baseless. An a foolish claim to make altogether considering it's been stated that Madara used Sharingan to see through clones. If you want to believe that Rinnegan also has that special ability then I'll need evidence. :lol

Nope, it enhances one's perception which is why it was emphasized here:

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And why Naruto had to cut off the other Path's Shared Vision to defeat Animal Path, the slowest of the Paths.

What are you even showing here? That's Shared Vision. Nothing else is shown in this scan.

Not necessarily:

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It also explains why War Arc Obito could perfectly react to Gai's, KCM Naruto's, and Kakashi's attacks coming from multiple different directions.

Where does this say that Rinnegan grants an enhanced field of vision? It says "Rinnegan's field of vision". Either way this doesn't matter.

Nope. Visual Genjutsu and Precognition are both basic abilities of the Sharingan and are tied to the exact same KKG. If Madara cannot use such a basic ability of the Sharingan through the Rinnegan, why should I assume that Madara could use Precognition through his Rinnegan? That's not even mentioning how Gaiden Sasuke was shown not using Precognition through his Rinnegan when his Rinnegan was recovering which is certainly not coincidental. Additionally, it's not a coincidence that Sasuke was the only one shown using Genjutsu using his Rinnegan as a medium whereas Madara couldn't. Using the Sharingan's abilities through the Rinnegan is clearly shown to be something exclusive to Tomoe Rinnegan.

Irrelevant. Them being from the same Dojutsu is irrelevant when they work completely different ways so you can drop this point now.

The other part is irrelevant when Itachi had access to his Strongest Ocular Technique despite literally being blind.

He wasn't literally blind. :lol If he was literally blind then Sasuke getting his eyes would've done nothing. He was almost blind.

He used a visual perception ability that we have no knowledge about. If it were a Sharingan technique exclusive to Madara, then it would've been a Mangekyo technique except it's never specified as such, so making the assumption that it's a technique originating from Indra's KKG is false.

-Madara stated that his Dojutsu let him see through clones in the past.
-That is Sharingan.
-Meaning it is a Sharingan ability.
-It's an ability only Madara has.
-Thus it's an ability unique to him.

These are undeniable facts.

Anything and everything else is a baseless assumption on your side and I hope we don't have to go back and forth before you realize this. Not sure what you are attempting to pull here, but there is no "technique". It's a trait of Madara's Sharingan and nothing more.

Plenty of reasons.

I also liked how another member specified how Madara couldn't perceive SM Naruto being a clone. Perhaps this was a technique learned specifically to combat Hashirama's Mokuton Feints?

No, none that actually make sense anyway.

:lol Why don't you read the Manga? Or rather just read my posts because we have scans of Madara ID'ing Naruto's clones as clones.

 

[NarutoX28]

Irrelevant and baseless. An a foolish claim to make altogether considering it's been stated that Madara used Sharingan to see through clones. If you want to believe that Rinnegan also has that special ability then I'll need evidence. :lol

Why? Rinnegan have shown exclusive abilities and have their own set of perceptive abilities.

I would need evidence suggesting that his ability to see through clones is a Mangekyo technique, but regardless, this is really the only point you really have.

What are you even showing here? That's Shared Vision. Nothing else is shown in this scan.

If Shared Vision's only purpose is to see things that you wouldn't catch in different angles, then why would he need the Path's Shared Vision in the first place if Preta Path was staring right at SM Naruto? Because looking at his opponent from different angles increases his perception which was why it was even highlighted.

Where does this say that Rinnegan grants an enhanced field of vision? It says "Rinnegan's field of vision". Either way this doesn't matter.

Which implies that the Rinnegan has a different field of vision. Why claim, "They're training to block the Rinnegan's Field of Vision," when we know what the Hidden Mist does to the user's opponent. Actually, why didn't he just state, "They're trying to block Madara's field of vision"?

Irrelevant. Them being from the same Dojutsu is irrelevant when they work completely different ways so you can drop this point now.

Seeing through clones and Precognition also works different ways as well. I fail to see how it's irrelevant when both are basic abilities of the Sharingan. Why would Madara be able to use Precognition and be unable to use Visual Genjutsu? Actually, why couldn't Gaiden Sasuke use Precognition through his Rinnegan when it lacked the Tomoes? The manga already showed the difference between the Rinnegan and the Sharingan through the Hachibi. If anything, that would've been the perfect time to highlight the Rinnegan's perceptive capabilities.

He wasn't literally blind. :lol If he was literally blind then Sasuke getting his eyes would've done nothing. He was almost blind.

He was. This is especially obvious when Itachi, using the last of his chakra had pale eyes after manifesting Susano'o whereas before Kirin's flash, his Mangekyo was still present and his eyes resembled the same look as Edo Itachi's did after sacrificing his eye for Izanami.

If he wasn't blind, then what did his pale eyes signify?

The rest is irrelevant as developing a New Dojutsu has shown to restore the user's eyes, not to mention that Itachi wasn't literally trying to steal Sasuke's eyes in the first place.

-Madara stated that his Dojutsu let him see through clones in the past.
-That is Sharingan.
-Meaning it is a Sharingan ability.
-It's an ability only Madara has.

Likewise:

- Hachibi only highlights the Sharingan as having Precognitive abilities.
- Hagoromo only highlights Kaguya's Dojutsu as possessing the Sharingan's Power and Sasuke has a variation of that.
- Gaiden Sasuke couldn't use Precognition or MS techniques through his Rinnegan until after the Tomoes returned.
- No evidence of Madara's technique being a Mangekyo technique even mentioned.

I'm wondering why only Uchihas who have awakened the Rinnegan can use Sharingan techniques through his eye whereas others such as Obito cannot.

Anything and everything else is a baseless assumption on your side and I hope we don't have to go back and forth before you realize this. Not sure what you are attempting to pull here, but there is no "technique". It's a trait of Madara's Sharingan and nothing more.

Visual Genjutsu is also a trait of Madara's Sharingan yet it could not be used.

It could very well be a trait that came from his own Chakras inherited from his parents. Indra's KKG is no longer present when using the Rinnegan, evidence points towards Normal Rinnegan being unable to cast MS jutsus unless Madara is somehow more proficient in Dojutsu than Rikudou Sasuke is, but Madara's own Chakra is still present as it was not fused with Hashirama's Chakra, so it being a reflection of Madara's own Chakra could explain why it could be used through both his Sharingan and Rinnegan, yet Visual Genjutsu could not be used.

No, none that actually make sense anyway.

:lol Why don't you read the Manga? Or rather just read my posts because we have scans of Madara ID'ing Naruto's clones as clones.

Yeah, that's true.

 

[LoZelda101]

-Sasuke using Susanoo w/ 3-T Sharingan is not only an animation error, Sharingan is still active.
-Madara is a whole different case. He was using something that might've been Preta Path without his eyes.

When Sasuke's vision went bad his Sharingan disappeared and his Susanoo vanished. That scan doesn't matter because there's no reason the Edo Jins would have a Sharingan ability with those Rinnegan when:

1. They are projections of Obito's eye.
2. They didn't awaken those eyes, thus they don't have the powers of the Sharingan it originated from.

Madara can see clones w/ Rinnegan, that's a Sharingan ability. No reason why precognition would be unavailable to him. And yes, I agree that Nagato shouldn't be able to make use of anything Sharingan related as he didn't awaken the eyes.



He clearly said "this one's a Kagebunshin". Not much room for debate here.

MS Sasuke is enough to defeat the Raikage, EMS w/o PS or Legged comfortably wins and anything above might as well be a stomp.

1. lol @ bold. i use that same sentence almost word for word when countering the same argument that i'm defending now. but if what you say about the boruto movie 3T being an error is true then nevermind. (can't believe they ****ed that up. smh)

2. okay, if madara has precog, then how exactly can i prove that nagato doesn't? anyone could easily counter that "didn't awaken" claim and say it's still madara's eyes therefore he has it. i remember madara saying that he can use the full power of the rinnegan (and that was before getting the 2nd rinne) so perhaps that precog is included with the limbo(whatever it's called he used to smack the bijuus)