Well the winner really depends on how you interpret the scenario. Powerful chakra is what unlocks these
powerful doujutsus. But powerful doujutsus does not mean that a person gets powerful chakra. For example,
transplant Sasuke's rinnegan to random fodder, and Naruto would fodder stomp them. Sasuke has the powerful
chakra to unlock the eye.
So a doujutsu user that unlocked all of these doujutsus would have to have chakra of a greater strength
or equal strength to that of Kaguya. Someone like that would be on par with the body + OP eye powers that
make them undoubtedly win.
But that's unfair as these eye powers were created by body power as well (Rinnegan requires Ashura + Indra, Rinne
sharingan requires bijuu/Shinjuu, etc.) Thus, a person that unlocked all of these doujutsus shoudl have chakras and
body powers of the same level as the body guy. Thus eye guy FODDER stomps.
However, if we instead give the strongest non-body power occular user these eyes in the form of transplants instead,
like Adult Sasuke, then give Naruto all these body powers, then Sasuke could stall it out and counter Naruto very
easily, but could nver actually hit Naruto, as Naruto would counter Sasuke as well easily and even if he ever got hit,
most of Sasuke's hits wouldn't even hurt Naruto.
Sasuke would tire out way before Naruto ever would, and in that case, body guy wins.
Transplanted dojutsus are totally irrelevant here. When you're comparing, you always talk about the original owner who awakened the dojutsu, can utilize it to the full power and has the corresponding powerful chakra to use it. What you're doing is basically forcing upon Team Eye to somehow not use their full power, just to give Team Body any possible advantage, unfairly of course.
So discarding the irrelevant "transplantation", Team Eye has the powerful chakra to use their dojutsu. @bold That's EXACTLY the case, as it should be logically, and you're right on the conclusion. @red That's the advantage with eye powers, and it's NOT unfair. It's
completely fair. Eye users have the power AND the means to use it. Fair and square. Chakra is not a body power. Eye powers joint with body powers is irrelevant since we're already considering them separately.
And the last part of your post is mostly wrong.
Truth-Seeking Ball or Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball
That's not a counter to IT.
Yes the eyes are dependent on the body to use at its highest potential,
That's true only for some eye powers. For example, Madara's CT was of a much greater scale compared to Sasuke because it was buffed by RSM. But for other powers like Amenotejikara, Kamui, Amenominaka etc, this is completely false. Body powers do not enhance your techniques in that case.
Madara wouldn't have had Rinnegan if that wasn't the case.
Irrelevant. Becaues we're already considering them separately.
Eye users are granted powerful chakra, but that never put Madara ahead of Hashi, manga always implied body>eyes.
Rinnegan Madara >> SM Hashirama. Anyone who says otherwise is a blind fool.
To cast IT you need a third eye, plus the moon.
You need the moon to cast IT
on mass scale. Kaguya already used IT prior to the creation of the moon in NV.
Rinnegan is the convergence of body and eye in one.
It's actually the result of sprouting the Rikodou chakra by combining eye and body into one. Body powers are not needed for the usage of Rinnegan. That's the whole point which makes your argument pointless.
No hashi cells (ashura chakra) NO IT.
You have the power. You have the chakra to use it. And you don't have body powers which you don't need anyway. Where is the damn problem?
Most of these techniques you're spouting, mainly Rinnegan techs are possible through the convergence of both body chakra and eye chakra to form the Rinnegan itself.
The formation is completely irrelevant. The chakra from body side is only needed
to form the Rikodou chakra which sprouts the Rinnegan. If you're given the Rinnegan like Sasuke, that destroys your entire argument. Rikodou chakra is what is needed for the Rinnegan, not body powers. Just because it is achieved by combining eye and body side chakra (through self means going by NV rules) does not even remotely come close to establishing its dependence on the body powers. Body powers ARE NOT NEEDED for eye powers, factually.
In theory these are, co-dependent techniques that need the body to evolve the eye into Rinnegan and to pull off techs at its most ultimate form. CT, IT etc. Kamui spamming wouldn't have been possible without body chakra, neither Madara's Rinnegan.
Same BS again. Read above.
@bold And WTF is "body chakra"? Anyone could have spammed Kamui if they had Rikodou chakra. I don't see how body is even relevant here?
This thread says no restriction, but in the same breath uses a qualifier of the body to state its case. It's like saying Kyuubi infused Susanoo can beat or greater than Susanoo...no durr...now how about them individually at base forms, and not comapring techniques that are only possible through them converging with one another.
You're emphasizing on completely useless things e.g. Rinnegan formation. The point of the thread is Team Body has all body powers to date AND the chakra to use them. And Team Eye also has all eye powers to date AND the chakra to use them that naturally comes with the eye. There is absolutely no relation or relevance of what you're talking about.
The pre-conditions state: "No restrictions" and no further details. This results in a number of inconsistencies. Especially given the fact that the people are using IT in their arguments and dimension shifting. So yes, It is a stupid pre-condition from the start. To give eyes "no restrictions" leaves them without worry for much of anything and makes this asinine to even debate.
>They have the chakra to do so: This proves my point. (Eyes gain Juubi levels of chakra, systematically giving them what they would otherwise lack without a body)
>They have the means to do so: This also proves my point. (If they have the means to use IT, Dimension shift among other dojutsu, it leaves inconsistencies given IT's nature)
You say "This is a hypothetical scenario. Don't drag logic into this" but it literally makes little to no sense, if we don't use logic then what's the point of this stupid question when it's obvious.
No, they'll not have Juubi levels chakra without body powers. That's obvious. All they'll have their own powerful chakra that
naturally comes with the eye. That's all, and that is sufficient enough to use their eyes techniques. Nobody is giving them body level chakra or powers.
What inconsistency about IT's nature? IT has absolutely no relation to body powers, so there is no inconsistency. All IT needs is Rinne Sharingan and the chakra to use it which eye power users have. And if they have less quantity, then can easily gain more after casting IT.
Can't break this up into quotes on my phone.
-Good points about the rikudou chakra but that's only exclusive to rikudou enhanced shinobi. I doubt nagato or base rinnegan madz can damage tsb let alone touch it.
True. But anyone without Rikodou chakra is irrelevant because transplanted dojutsus are irrelevant.
-we're using the best body users feats right? I doubt someone with kaguya lvl reflexes wouldnt be able to dodge ameno swap.
True. I agree. Team Eye will just have to resort to Kamui for defense. And since they have visual offenses, they won't need to make themselves tangible for attacking.
-Didnt kakashi say ghost mode would be useless if ETSB got too big?
True. But Team Eye could have already casted IT by then and escaped later. He said that because 5 min intangility time limit won't be able to get him out of the huge ETSB.
Team Eye could just escape the dimension alternatively. And then cast IT.
-implying the body user is just gonna stand there and let it happen :lol and how does being immortal have anything to do with having more chakra?
Nothing. Neither does Team Eye have immortality nor more chakra. They both belong to body powers.
Wouldn't a rikudou senjutsu pumped white rage end this?
I don't see how.
BTW, let me explain what the thread conditions imply. The simple fact is that both Team Eye and Team Body have ALL their respective powers AND all the chakra that naturally comes with them. For example Rinnegan comes with Rikodou chakra, so Team Eye has Rinnegan and Rikodou chakra. MS/EMS comes with Uchiha chakra, so Team Eye has Rinnegan and MS/EMS and Uchiha plus Rikodou chakra.
So basically, Team Eye is this:
POWERS: Rinne Sharingan, Rinnegan (both Madara and Sasuke), MS/EMS (all of them), Sharingan [essentially all eye powers in NV]
CHAKRA: Kaguya's chakra (which awakens the Rinne Sharingan) [same quantity that comes with the dojutsu with subsequent increase] + Rikodou chakra (which awakens the Rinnegan) [same quantity that comes with dojutsu and subsequent increase] + Uchiha chakra (which awakens Sharingan, MS and EMS) [same quantity that comes with dojutsus, same progression and subsequent increase as in NV]
