Ultimate Body vs Ultimate Eye

[Remedy]

You don't need the body to use IT. He just needed to be near the moon.

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He wouldn't have had Rinnegan without the body to even cast IT. That's my point.

 

[King of the Heavens]

Half the eye powers mentioned here need the body power to even be activated so it's not really something to hard to think about the dojutsu that doesn't need body enhancement are sharingan - EMS (not including zetsu) so...... what this should have been is EMS vs all body feats and we all know who's gonna win that well unless your trolls

 

[To Whatever]

No, they'll not have Juubi levels chakra without body powers. That's obvious. All they'll have their own powerful chakra that naturally comes with the eye. That's all, and that is sufficient enough to use their eyes techniques. Nobody is giving them body level chakra or powers.

What inconsistency about IT's nature? IT has absolutely no relation to body powers, so there is no inconsistency. All IT needs is Rinne Sharingan and the chakra to use it which eye power users have. And if they have less quantity, then can easily gain more after casting IT.

Do you know how stupid that sounds? That "Natural" chakra and eye modes you're talking about outside of EMS (and Hanabi's eyes) originates from being the Juubi's host and having the "body". You're basically giving them imaginary chakra reserves that would otherwise be impossible if not for the body or the juubi.

Juubi levels of chakra is essentially the body levels of chakra as having that amount is only possible with the juubi. You think Madara could cast IT without having the juubi inside him even if for some convoluted reason he managed to get the eye to do so? No. He has nowhere near the reserves to do it.

How does IT have no relations to the body when you have to be a Jinchurki of the juubi + have rinnegan to cast it in the first place. Something that would have otherwise been impossible if one did not have Senju/Uchiha running through their DNA. (AKA Body+Eyes). Not to mention for them to cast IT against this "Ultimate body" would basically mean that exists two juubi among other inconsistencies.

There's no logic in this debate given the pre-conditions. The "Ultimate Eyes" having no restrictions makes this an obvious result and overall stupid question.

 

[FreeTanner17]

Hashirama isn't the ultimate body just so you know. Juubi jinchuuriki's have a huge scale of mokuton, even ones that shoot ttb:

Spoiler

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So everything you just listed as the ultimate body is everything a juubi jinchuuriki can do.

As for the eyes, kaguya already has every capability of doing every single ocular ability we've seen in the series. Or at least something very similar.

Juubi Jin has nothing to do with this.

 

[Bored38]

This is a stupid thread considering IT and Shar/Rinn are only possible when the person has both doujutsu and body, ie Madara,Obito and Sauce having Hashi cells. So the only logical way to have this debate is to limit doujutsu to that which doesnt need the yin body to be activated. Otherwise its an eye/body vs body arguement which like I said is STUPID

 

[XxTayxX]

Cant remember the name of the jutsu but could DSM's snake eye lid tech counter it? When Kabuto used it he was able to see through blinding light and couldn't be visually genjutsu'd.

Sage Art: White Rage justu

 

[Jokule67]

Body take this. Body have ash killing bones. and kaguya's other techniques.

This isn't even fair, body users have immortality.

^^^^^This. Not to mention Omnyoudon and Goudodama.

 

[giostep]

Anyone who thinks anything other than tie isnt thinking hard enough.
They are both sides of the same coin.
They are the ying and yang to the other...that was the entire point of that plot line...

 

[Gerkak]

Lol so this is still going on.

 

[Tyris]

Anyone who thinks anything other than tie isnt thinking hard enough.
They are both sides of the same coin.
They are the ying and yang to the other...that was the entire point of that plot line...

Faps on both sides will keep trying even after site's down.

 

[HENI]

^^^^^This. Not to mention Omnyoudon and Goudodama.

Kotoamatsukami GG

 

[Jokule67]

Kotoamatsukami GG

Dang you right that move is OP lol

 

[The Demon Hawk]

dose it manga or db state that Truth-Seeking Ball or

Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball shield wont work or tsb shield cant nullify it

if not than you shouldnt be so sure

The light can penetrate through EVERYTHING. Only something that can actually nullify IT can extend it to other objects (like Sasuke did using Susanoo). You're just trying to give Naruto/Team Body fanfic abilities just to somehow saved them from getting owned. Not gonna happen...

I think he was referring to the fact that the eye had to awaken after he absorbed the Shinju Tree? Isn't there a body requirement of some sort? Or can anyone just absorb it?

Not sure tbh

Yes, he had to awaken the Rinne Sharingan after through aid from body powers. And the "awakening" part is irrelevant since Team Eye already has all eye powers. Using those powers don't require any help from body powers.

Can't break this up on my phone.

You never really broke down anything in the first place. But that's okay...

There is relevance to what I'm saying, and the point is Rinnegan is only achievable through the convergence of two chakras. You can be given one,and use one without the body, but the main point is the only way to develop one is through the assitance of the body.

The convergence of two chakras is NOT the only way to achieve the Rinnegan. Sasuke did not converge two chakras to get the Rinnegan FYI. In fact, it's not even the essential requirement. The actual requirement of the Rinnegan is to achieve the specific Six Paths chakra that evolves Sharingan to Rinnegan. One way of creating that Six Paths chakra is to converge Indra and Ashura's chakra (that's all). That does not make it a necessary requirement for the Rinnegan. And this "achievement" stuff is completely irrelevant to the thread. You don't need body powers to use the eye techs, you just need the specific chakra, which Team Eye has. That's what matters.

You do need the body to use Rinnegan to use to its full potential, unless youre implying Sasuke & Nagato=Juubi Madara & Kaguya.

First, let's remove Nagato because he's completely irrelevant. Next, regarding this, I've already talked about before. Some Rinnegan techs which have a variable magnitude like Chibaku Tensei and Shinra Tensei will be empowered by body powers, since RSM will buff those techs. But non variable techs like Amenominaka, Amenotejikara, Kamui, Preta Path etc will not be empowered by having body powers.

Adult Sasuke >= JJ Madara
Teen Rinnegan Sasuke > Rinnegan Madara

Comparing Hashi to JJ Madara makes no point, Madara needed Hashi to achieve that level. We are pitting two powers against one another, to see the potential of one undiluted and the other. Rinnegan being a byproduct of both chakras totally makes this redundant and asinine. You're spouting techniques only possible through the means of convergence.

I've already negated this argument. Firstly, you brought Hashi into this, not me. Secondly, Rinnegan is not the byproduct of two chakras, it is the result of Six Paths chakra + EMS. One way of achieving that Six Paths chakra is the convergence of two chakras since they were initially rooted from one chakra which created the Rinnegan. That's all the significance of body side's chakra. It only helps to create the chakra which is required for the Rinnegan under normal circumstances. It is not the essential requirement for the Rinnegan because the Six Paths chakra can be attained in any other way.

If this thread says eye vs body, then that's what it is, not eye (with body benefits) vs body (no eye benefits) Only things that should really be listed are sharingan techs to be honest.

Nobody is including body benefits to the eyes. @bold Flawed request TBH.

Do you know how stupid that sounds? That "Natural" chakra and eye modes you're talking about outside of EMS (and Hanabi's eyes) originates from being the Juubi's host and having the "body". You're basically giving them imaginary chakra reserves that would otherwise be impossible if not for the body or the juubi.

Juubi levels of chakra is essentially the body levels of chakra as having that amount is only possible with the juubi. You think Madara could cast IT without having the juubi inside him even if for some convoluted reason he managed to get the eye to do so? No. He has nowhere near the reserves to do it.

How does IT have no relations to the body when you have to be a Jinchurki of the juubi + have rinnegan to cast it in the first place. Something that would have otherwise been impossible if one did not have Senju/Uchiha running through their DNA. (AKA Body+Eyes). Not to mention for them to cast IT against this "Ultimate body" would basically mean that exists two juubi among other inconsistencies.

There's no logic in this debate given the pre-conditions. The "Ultimate Eyes" having no restrictions makes this an obvious result and overall stupid question.

The answer to all of this has been given in this post or the last post (which you replied to). Don't feel like repeating myself.

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

Body always win. Hashi > Madz

Kamui is hax tho and is the only thing that gives the eye squad hope.

 

[To Whatever]

The answer to all of this has been given in this post or the last post (which you replied to). Don't feel like repeating myself.

You just cant admit how stupid the pre-conditions of this thread is, can you?

-Most of the eye techs and the eyes themselves aren't possible without the body.
-The Eyes gain juubi levels of chakra for free given the conditions.
-The Eyes gain the means to use what would otherwise be impossible.


There's no logic in this.

 

[Gerkak]

It is impossible for the eye power guy to even handle all those powers at once without body enhancements.

Supporters of the eye powered guy are conjuring new abilities to support their favored choice. Techniques like amenominika which was specifically said to only be used by kaguya due to her reserves are being used here.

Logically the only powers the eye powered guy can use are EMS/MS powers. U_U

 

[The Discourse]

Good Discourse, guys, I am very proud and I will likely contribute to this Discourse very soon

 

[Remedy]

You never really broke down anything in the first place. But that's okay...

Yes that's what I said, essentially no need to reply to this part.

The convergence of two chakras is NOT the only way to achieve the Rinnegan. Sasuke did not converge two chakras to get the Rinnegan FYI. In fact, it's not even the essential requirement. The actual requirement of the Rinnegan is to achieve the specific Six Paths chakra that evolves Sharingan to Rinnegan. One way of creating that Six Paths chakra is to converge Indra and Ashura's chakra (that's all). That does not make it a necessary requirement for the Rinnegan. And this "achievement" stuff is completely irrelevant to the thread. You don't need body powers to use the eye techs, you just need the specific chakra, which Team Eye has. That's what matters.



[]First, let's remove Nagato because he's completely irrelevant. Next, regarding this, I've already talked about before. Some Rinnegan techs which have a variable magnitude like Chibaku Tensei and Shinra Tensei will be empowered by body powers, since RSM will buff those techs. But non variable techs like Amenominaka, Amenotejikara, Kamui, Preta Path etc will not be empowered by having body powers.

I was waiting on you to bring this up, eye can't develop rinnegan on their own without the body, that's the point. This totally throws any type of rinnegan usage and fanfic out the window. Sasuke received his rinnegan via the direct source of the body it's self. Prior to receiving his rinnegan he also had Hashirama DNA implanted in him. Nagato just isn't relevant to the argument you're trying to make, to mine he is. You power scale his rinnegan techs against Kaguya or JJ Madara, they obviously pale in comparison. When you lack both components that make rinnegan whole, they are limited in use.

Adult Sasuke >= JJ Madara
Teen Rinnegan Sasuke > Rinnegan Madara

What gave you that impression? Did we not see the Boruto movie?

B]I've already negated this argument. Firstly, you brought Hashi into this, not me. Secondly, Rinnegan is not the byproduct of two chakras, it is the result of Six Paths chakra + EMS. One way of achieving that Six Paths chakra is the convergence of two chakras since they were initially rooted from one chakra which created the Rinnegan. That's all the significance of body side's chakra. It only helps to create the chakra which is required for the Rinnegan under normal circumstances. It is not the essential requirement for the Rinnegan because the Six Paths chakra can be attained in any other way.



Nobody is including body benefits to the eyes. @bold Flawed request TBH.



The answer to all of this has been given in this post or the last post (which you replied to). Don't feel like repeating myself.[/B]

Name any other character that has Rinnegan via not mixing two chakras together or receiving it directly from the owner? You can't, so you can't say it isn't a byproduct of two chakras because it is.You aren't going to get rinnegan any other way, period. Madara mixed Ashura and Indra chakra together to make rinnegan. Never said the owner had to specifically have EMS, you just needed to mix two chakras together to form the Sages. That's the point here, in this debate how do eye users have Rinnegan when the prerequisite of its development via not receiving it through the owner is the body? How can they use it when this is a eye vs body argument, and Rinnegan is a byproduct of both? They can't, because then they will benefiting from the body if they have it, which destroys the silly conditions of this thread.

 

[Jokule67]

It is impossible for the eye power guy to even handle all those powers at once without body enhancements.

Supporters of the eye powered guy are conjuring new abilities to support their favored choice. Techniques like amenominika which was specifically said to only be used by kaguya due to her reserves are being used here.

Logically the only powers the eye powered guy can use are EMS/MS powers. U_U

^^^^ Very True short and simple. Example would be Shisui and his one use a day of Kotoamatsukami. And Danzo lengthening the use with Hashi cells(body).

 

[Hashirama Senjuu]

Body takes this, shukaku makes desert, kurama cloak surrounded by wood style. A wooden cladded kurama with shukakus sand abilities in the middle of a desert with immortality and the ability to make its bones harder than steel, etc, ashura avatar with lava armor from son goku.
Eyes wont work if they're blinded by chomeis scale powder.

There's just too much.