people are getting the wrong idea about Jiraiya and genjutsu.
He may not be the best at casting it, but hes going to be good at escaping them, thats why he was so keen on teaching naruto how to escape as hes useless at them to
without ma and pa jiraiya would have loads of problem dispelling itachi's base genjutsu... Tsukuyomi can't be dispelled by disrupting the victim's chakra so even with ma and pa jiraiya is still vulnerable to genjutsu.
even oro couldn't dispel his regular genjutsu...
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deidara would've blown himself up without realizing it.
If oro and deidara couldn't dispel it then on what basis should i beleive you that jiraiya can dispel it?
without ma and pa jiraiya would have loads of problem dispelling itachi's base genjutsu... Tsukuyomi can't be dispelled by disrupting the victim's chakra so even with ma and pa jiraiya is still vulnerable to genjutsu.
even oro couldn't dispel his regular genjutsu...
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deidara would've blown himself up without realizing it.
If oro and deidara couldn't dispel it then on what basis should i beleive you that jiraiya can dispel it?
Actually, all Genjutsu can be broken that way, even Tsukuyomi. However, B is the only one to have done so (well for Sasuke's Tsukuyomi anyway) since he's a "perfect Jinchuriki".
One eye contact leaves Jiraiya mental destroyed instantly, one glance of Itachi kill him instantly, Susanoo protects Itachi from any attack and crush Jiraiya with a single blow. Don't get absurd with your ideas.
Aviod eyecontact permanenty takes a lot of concentration, try to fight an Uchiha without eye contact, who can use additional Genjutsus which don't need eye contact, Amaterasu, Susanoo and a lot of other good Ninjutsus and Taijutsumoves. And Jiraiya can't still avoid Amaterasu. You have to understand, that Itachi and his techniques are faster. Amaterasu arises directly in Itachis field of vision, it's to fast for Jiraiya, no one can't dodge from it, especially someone like Raikage with full his full speed. The Sharingan was even able to follow A's movements. And Itachis Susanoo will still protect him from any of Jiraiyas attacks. A single blow of level 1 Susanoo is enough to crush a person, never mind the final stage with it's weapons.
Itachi combines the strongest Genjutsus and Ninjutsus. Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo combined in one person is already overwhelming and this is only his Mangekyo Sharingan, not the full power.
You mean just like how he caught Kakashi when Kakashi knew exactly what he was about to do? Can't predict a fiction story because it hasn't been written yet. So it goes both ways.
LOL He is the epitome of ignorance, somebody you cannot reason with therefore arguing with or even listining to is irrelevent. If it was up to him the show whould be called Itachi is god, where his opinion would make more since...
Wait, when Itachi and Nagato were resurrected through Kabuto's Impure Jutsu and Itachi freed himself of it, It took him and the help of Naruto and Killer Bee to defeat Nagato. To say that Nagato and Itachi were on equal levels is ridiculous. I do however believe that Itachi is more powerful then Jiraiya.
Btw siyo i challenge you to upload me a manga chapter (ive great reasons for saying this) where itachi said if he fought jiraiya he would draw. I feel its about time to burst this myth, once and for all.
Many manga have translated what he said differently. For example this is one of the translations;
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.
Judging by this, he was talking about asuma and kurenai
Blocked Jiraiya? I suggest you take a break from forum and go back to reading manga.
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It was Sasuke , the brat, who asked him to stop and rushed to Itachi himself only to be get beaten within seconds and then the Akatsuki duo was trapped in the belly of toad.
Kisame told Itachi not to use his eye this soon again :
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Naruto rushed forward and Kisame rushed after Naruto.
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Kisame along with Samehada were useless next second.
*sigh*, never had much interest in this thread due to the op not bringing up good enough facts. Merely scratching the surface but also i hate repeating myself. This will most likely be my final post in this thread, so ill entertain you U_U.
Prior to the meeting, he hailed and respected him as one of sannins;
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Firstly when jiraiya did finally arrive. Is this the reaction of somebody (kisame) who he claimed would lose to jiraiya, before their encounter;
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He repeats the phrase about him being a sannin again, but this time he goes further and mocks him right in front of him. Is the first situation, jiraiya wasnt there and he praises him. Yet in the second situation, jiriaya was there and he disrespects him. Ask your self, should it not be the other way. Where he mocks him in the first link, then respects him in his presence, yet he does the opposite.
Look at the gap between jiriaya and kisame and tell me, is this the action of somebody who isnt confident in their own abilities;
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Look at itachi's response, is this from somebody who scared;
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Look at how both (kisame and itachi) casually turned the other way to look at sasuke;
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Look at how itachi casually walks to sasuke. Turns his back at jiraiya. Seems like he has great confidence in kisame to leave him to jiraiya;
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Itachi beats sasuke causally to a pulp with taijutsu;
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Itachi in that same day has already used tsukuyomi on kakashi. After beating sasuke to a pulp, he need not use tsukuyomi. He couldve saved his chakra for jiraiya if he really did consider jiraiya a threat, yet he used another tsukuyomi this time on sasuke right infront of jiraiya. Is this the action of a man who is scared. To use another high chakra consumption technique right before the man whom you claim at best you would draw against?;
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Only when has naruto distracted kisame, did jiraiya have the time to use his frog stomach technique. Before he was kept at bay;
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Kisame asked itachi and i quote ' why is a retreat necessary". Is this the words of somebody who was scared of the situation. He questioned itachi's motive. Kisame himself when the time came wasnt fazed by jiraiya at all. Anyway itachi gave him an excuse to which he believed;
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Kisame questions itachi again in relation to the kyuubi and itachi again gives him an excuse. Not that in this seen was when kisame has defeated the 4th tailed jinchrucki and complained of being abit tired. Kisame most likely assumes that naruto is still jiraiya's keeper and yet he isnt exactly afraid of going after the 9 tails;
I already showed Kisame didn't do anything besides sacaring Naruto.
Itachi used his Tsukoyomi and then Amaterasu and was tired. Even Kisame had warned him before about not using it twice on the same day. Unlike sage mode Sharingan is a costly tech and leads to blindness. You think he would be able to pull it off a third time without personal risk..That's an assumption with no back up from the manga.
You keep putting Itachi in Konoha to the Itachi as an edo equal. Naruto and Sasuke grew up in the time gap. Don't you think Itachi's capacities would also have been increased in that duration. He couldn't have been more than 16-18 at the time max.( He was ANBU captain at 13. Massacare took place and he had returned Konoha after three year. We don't know how long Itachi was captain before turning rogue). Jiraiya was already a veteron and sealed Amaterasu up. And Guy entered the scene soon after chasing Sasuke in his turn missing the duo by moments since they had run away.
Picking and chosing scene and dialogues according to ones convinience and rejecting if it doesn't suit them is not the way to analyse a character in a story.
Note: I am not stating any opinion on the VS battle in this or any other circumstances. The end result could go both ways- battles in Narutoverse depends on the circumstances on that particular moment and I let only Kishi have an opinion about it.
All youve said in this paragraph holds no substance and ill start by asking what exactly is a sannin. I always laugh whenever i hear people in vs threads say "jiraiya/oro/tsunade would win because he is a sannin". What exatly is a sannin?. This is what is a sannin is;
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After being defeated by Hanzou, he gave them the title sannin. Such a title holds little relevance especially in vs threads. In the manga it holds a bit of substance, due to hype of hanzou. Hope you note the word hype;
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What im trying to say is that in the manga there has been alot of hype about people. But that doesnt mean that due to their hype they are strong enough nor does it mean, when a character praises a fellow strong character does it mean they are establishing inferiority between them and the character in question and ill demonstrate.
Zetsu praise for jiraiya;
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Oro gives praise to sarutobi twice in the link below yet mocks him in the scene. He has great respect for what he has done, but that doesnt mean he is establishing inferiority to him;
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Oonoki out of respects praises madara (who is actually tobi but thats not the point) and acknowledges his strength;
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Yet when the time comes, although he still holds madara in high regards in the situation he isnt nerves to challenge him;
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What im trying to say is that just because a character has commented on another character doesnt mean they are inferior to them. They just acknowledge their hype or abilities. Whenever a character has acknowledged another characters abilities, this never seizes them from encountering the person whom they praised. Its respect for another strong character.
Similarly just because a character has praised anotehr character who they beat does not mean that they are inferior to the character they beat. Its just out of respect. Seems like alot of people take confuse praise with inferiority. Thats how it is in the manga. Strong characters have praise for each other. Example after sasuke defeats orochimaru, he downplays his victory and claims that its because oro was weakened did he have the chance to win. Although i agree that a oro at his best would challenge sasuke all the way, but the point im making is that, thats how characters in the manga are. They praise one another;
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Similarly alot of people have blown what pein's words out of context and even claimed jiraiya > pein. Yet it was praise for his former sensei and in the link he says this himself;
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Finally, only when two ninja's have been in battle can the losers inferiority hold any substance, otherwise what they say is out of admiration or respect. Itachi has already bested oro and oro acknowledged his as being superior to him;
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Similarly itachi has bested kakashi and kakashi acknowledges this;
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Personally i wasn't impressed with the op for me to create such a post. All he said was scrap the surface with data book and what a character has said. If mayn people on this forum where to analyse a situation in depth, i would enjoy nb more, but due to this ive with hold from getting into any sort of arguments because a lot of people on this site are either simple minded or refuse to analyse things. Now alot of people might say im an itachi fan, sure ive never denied this, but you see ive great reasons for saying itachi> jiraiya and kisame > jiraiya, whilst the others that say otherwise merely quote what a character has said about another character. Others say i over analyse situaitons, i dont think so i just like to get to the bottom of things instead of using what a character has said, which if you translate it, its either praise or admiration.
So far nobody has come up with a good enough reason why they believe jiraiya > kisame or jiraiya > itachi. The merely bring up the same thing over and over again. Nothing interesting if you ask me. I do intend this to be my last post in this thread though
again itachi has the feats. the itachi suporters here have come up with way better arguments than jiraya. end off
who all have come up with is a hype statement from itachi which was most likely a lie to further protect the village. like he always did. aswell as sum ass licking.
*sigh*, never had much interest in this thread due to the op not bringing up good enough facts. Merely scratching the surface but also i hate repeating myself. This will most likely be my final post in this thread, so ill entertain you U_U.
Prior to the meeting, he hailed and respected him as one of sannins;
You must be registered for see images
Firstly when jiraiya did finally arrive. Is this the reaction of somebody (kisame) who he claimed would lose to jiraiya, before their encounter;
You must be registered for see images
He repeats the phrase about him being a sannin again, but this time he goes further and mocks him right in front of him. Is the first situation, jiraiya wasnt there and he praises him. Yet in the second situation, jiriaya was there and he disrespects him. Ask your self, should it not be the other way. Where he mocks him in the first link, then respects him in his presence, yet he does the opposite.
Look at the gap between jiriaya and kisame and tell me, is this the action of somebody who isnt confident in their own abilities;
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Look at itachi's response, is this from somebody who scared;
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Look at how both (kisame and itachi) casually turned the other way to look at sasuke;
You must be registered for see images
Look at how itachi casually walks to sasuke. Turns his back at jiraiya. Seems like he has great confidence in kisame to leave him to jiraiya;
You must be registered for see images
Itachi beats sasuke causally to a pulp with taijutsu;
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Itachi in that same day has already used tsukuyomi on kakashi. After beating sasuke to a pulp, he need not use tsukuyomi. He couldve saved his chakra for jiraiya if he really did consider jiraiya a threat, yet he used another tsukuyomi this time on sasuke right infront of jiraiya. Is this the action of a man who is scared. To use another high chakra consumption technique right before the man whom you claim at best you would draw against?;
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Only when has naruto distracted kisame, did jiraiya have the time to use his frog stomach technique. Before he was kept at bay;
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Kisame asked itachi and i quote ' why is a retreat necessary". Is this the words of somebody who was scared of the situation. He questioned itachi's motive. Kisame himself when the time came wasnt fazed by jiraiya at all. Anyway itachi gave him an excuse to which he believed;
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Kisame questions itachi again in relation to the kyuubi and itachi again gives him an excuse. Not that in this seen was when kisame has defeated the 4th tailed jinchrucki and complained of being abit tired. Kisame most likely assumes that naruto is still jiraiya's keeper and yet he isnt exactly afraid of going after the 9 tails;
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All youve said in this paragraph holds no substance and ill start by asking what exactly is a sannin. I always laugh whenever i hear people in vs threads say "jiraiya/oro/tsunade would win because he is a sannin". What exatly is a sannin?. This is what is a sannin is;
You must be registered for see images
After being defeated by Hanzou, he gave them the title sannin. Such a title holds little relevance especially in vs threads. In the manga it holds a bit of substance, due to hype of hanzou. Hope you note the word hype;
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
What im trying to say is that in the manga there has been alot of hype about people. But that doesnt mean that due to their hype they are strong enough nor does it mean, when a character praises a fellow strong character does it mean they are establishing inferiority between them and the character in question and ill demonstrate.
Zetsu praise for jiraiya;
You must be registered for see images
Oro gives praise to sarutobi twice in the link below yet mocks him in the scene. He has great respect for what he has done, but that doesnt mean he is establishing inferiority to him;
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Oonoki out of respects praises madara (who is actually tobi but thats not the point) and acknowledges his strength;
You must be registered for see images
Yet when the time comes, although he still holds madara in high regards in the situation he isnt nerves to challenge him;
You must be registered for see images
What im trying to say is that just because a character has commented on another character doesnt mean they are inferior to them. They just acknowledge their hype or abilities. Whenever a character has acknowledged another characters abilities, this never seizes them from encountering the person whom they praised. Its respect for another strong character.
Similarly just because a character has praised anotehr character who they beat does not mean that they are inferior to the character they beat. Its just out of respect. Seems like alot of people take confuse praise with inferiority. Thats how it is in the manga. Strong characters have praise for each other. Example after sasuke defeats orochimaru, he downplays his victory and claims that its because oro was weakened did he have the chance to win. Although i agree that a oro at his best would challenge sasuke all the way, but the point im making is that, thats how characters in the manga are. They praise one another;
You must be registered for see images
Similarly alot of people have blown what pein's words out of context and even claimed jiraiya > pein. Yet it was praise for his former sensei and in the link he says this himself;
You must be registered for see images
Finally, only when two ninja's have been in battle can the losers inferiority hold any substance, otherwise what they say is out of admiration or respect. Itachi has already bested oro and oro acknowledged his as being superior to him;
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Similarly itachi has bested kakashi and kakashi acknowledges this;
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Personally i wasn't impressed with the op for me to create such a post. All he said was scrap the surface with data book and what a character has said. If mayn people on this forum where to analyse a situation in depth, i would enjoy nb more, but due to this ive with hold from getting into any sort of arguments because a lot of people on this site are either simple minded or refuse to analyse things. Now alot of people might say im an itachi fan, sure ive never denied this, but you see ive great reasons for saying itachi> jiraiya and kisame > jiraiya, whilst the others that say otherwise merely quote what a character has said about another character. Others say i over analyse situaitons, i dont think so i just like to get to the bottom of things instead of using what a character has said, which if you translate it, its either praise or admiration.
So far nobody has come up with a good enough reason why they believe jiraiya > kisame or jiraiya > itachi. The merely bring up the same thing over and over again. Nothing interesting if you ask me. I do intend this to be my last post in this thread though
Beautiful post,well written,logical,coherent from the start to the finish,what else can be added besides this.It's sad tough it had to take so much effort to convey a message so simple to grasp,but nevertheless not yet understood by the majority.At the moment I can't +rep,but I'll verily do it asap
*What im trying to say is that in the manga there has been alot of hype about people. But that doesnt mean that due to their hype they are strong enough nor does it mean, when a character praises a fellow strong character does it mean they are establishing inferiority between them and the character in question and ill demonstrate.
Similarly just because a character has praised anotehr character who they beat does not mean that they are inferior to the character they beat. Its just out of respect. Seems like alot of people take confuse praise with inferiority. Thats how it is in the manga. Strong characters have praise for each other. Example after sasuke defeats orochimaru, he downplays his victory and claims that its because oro was weakened did he have the chance to win. Although i agree that a oro at his best would challenge sasuke all the way, but the point im making is that, thats how characters in the manga are. They praise one another;
The characters mock and show no fear to their opponents because the shinobi in Naruto are not cowards, the top ninjas all are happy to fight to the death. As I believe cowardice is sincerely frowned upon in Japan, so the great ninjas in Naruto (a japanese story) will naturally have the greatest being brave and confident.
Mocking and taunting in fights is to get a reaction, make them angry so they make a stupid mistake.
Itachi has no qualms with fleeing when Jiraiya sticks them inside the toad, and before you say he explained why, well he still had a fully ready Kisame, and hadnt used Ameratsu yet. (he admits it was partially due to not needing the 9 tails yet, but also said as he'd used his powers up)
For those talking about improper translations, I already gave the correct, literal translation a while back. As was written in the Japanese, Kisame was NOT respecting him as a Sannin. He said OUTRIGHT that he could not win and Itachi said that a tie would be the best outcome. There was no mistaking it. But for those who don't feel like going back adn searching for it:
Kisame: "He's an opponent you might somehow be able to beat, but for me, I don't know… He's a different level." (｢アナタならどうにかこうにかやれ� ��相手でも私じゃあ分かりませんよ… 次元が違う。｣, "Anata nara dō ni ka kō ni ka yareru aite demo watashi jaa wakarimasen yo… Jigen ga chigau.")
Itachi: "Yeah… If we were to fight him, we might both be killed. If things go well, it might become a tie. this probably won't change if we were to increase our numbers." (「ああ…やり合えば二人共殺される� ��。良くて相打ちというところ…たと え人数を増やしたとしても変わらな� �だろう。」, "Aa… yariaeba futaritomo korosareru ka. Yokute aiuchi to iu tokoro …Tatoe ninzū o fuyashita toshite mo kawaranai darō.")
Kisame: "It was good that we finally found him at the ramen shop, but… his babysitter is of those 'Legendary Three Shinobi'. With him as our opponent, even the names of Konoha's Uchiha clan and Kiri's Seven Shinobi Swordsmen would be overshadowed." (｢ラーメン屋で やっと見付けたは� ��いが…お守りが あの"伝説の三忍"� ��は。彼が相手では"木ノ葉のうちは� �族"も"霧の忍刀七人衆"の名もかすん� ��しまう。｣, "Rāmenya de yatto mitsuketa wa ii ga… Omori ga ano 'Densetsu no Sannin' to wa. Kare ga aite de wa 'Konoha no Uchiha Ichizoku' mo 'Kiri no Shinobigatana Shichininshū' no na mo kasunde shimau.")
Itachi: "No matter how strong a person is, he will have a weakness…" (｢どんな強者にも弱点というのがあ� ��ものだ……｣, "Donna kyōsha ni mo jakuten to iu no ga aru mono da……")
That's all there is to it. To say that the manga or the character is wrong is just trolling or stupidity.
For those talking about improper translations, I already gave the correct, literal translation a while back. As was written in the Japanese, Kisame was NOT only respecting him as a Sannin. He said OUTRIGHT that he could not win against Jiraiya and Itachi said that a tie would be the best outcome. There was no mistaking it. But for those who don't feel like going back adn searching for it:
Kisame: "He's an opponent you might somehow be able to beat, but for me, I don't know… He's a different level." (｢アナタならどうにかこうにかやれ� ��相手でも私じゃあ分かりませんよ… 次元が違う。｣, "Anata nara dō ni ka kō ni ka yareru aite demo watashi jaa wakarimasen yo… Jigen ga chigau.")
Itachi: "Yeah… If we were to fight him, we might both be killed. If things go well, it might become a tie. this probably won't change if we were to increase our numbers." (「ああ…やり合えば二人共殺される� ��。良くて相打ちというところ…たと え人数を増やしたとしても変わらな� �だろう。」, "Aa… yariaeba futaritomo korosareru ka. Yokute aiuchi to iu tokoro …Tatoe ninzū o fuyashita toshite mo kawaranai darō.")
Kisame: "It was good that we finally found him at the ramen shop, but… his babysitter is of those 'Legendary Three Shinobi'. With him as our opponent, even the names of Konoha's Uchiha clan and Kiri's Seven Shinobi Swordsmen would be overshadowed." (｢ラーメン屋で やっと見付けたは� ��いが…お守りが あの"伝説の三忍"� ��は。彼が相手では"木ノ葉のうちは� �族"も"霧の忍刀七人衆"の名もかすん� ��しまう。｣, "Rāmenya de yatto mitsuketa wa ii ga… Omori ga ano 'Densetsu no Sannin' to wa. Kare ga aite de wa 'Konoha no Uchiha Ichizoku' mo 'Kiri no Shinobigatana Shichininshū' no na mo kasunde shimau.")
Itachi: "No matter how strong a person is, he will have a weakness…" (｢どんな強者にも弱点というのがあ� ��ものだ……｣, "Donna kyōsha ni mo jakuten to iu no ga aru mono da……")
That's all there is to it. To say that the manga or the character is wrong is just trolling or stupidity.
-sigh- There's no convincing some of you. I'm done with this thread. =_=
For those talking about improper translations, I already gave the correct, literal translation a while back. As was written in the Japanese, Kisame was NOT respecting him as a Sannin. He said OUTRIGHT that he could not win against Jiraiya and Itachi said that a tie would be the best outcome. There was no mistaking it. But for those who don't feel like going back adn searching for it:
Kisame: "He's an opponent you might somehow be able to beat, but for me, I don't know… He's a different level." (｢アナタならどうにかこうにかやれ� ��相手でも私じゃあ分かりませんよ… 次元が違う。｣, "Anata nara dō ni ka kō ni ka yareru aite demo watashi jaa wakarimasen yo… Jigen ga chigau.")
Itachi: "Yeah… If we were to fight him, we might both be killed. If things go well, it might become a tie. this probably won't change if we were to increase our numbers." (「ああ…やり合えば二人共殺される� ��。良くて相打ちというところ…たと え人数を増やしたとしても変わらな� �だろう。」, "Aa… yariaeba futaritomo korosareru ka. Yokute aiuchi to iu tokoro …Tatoe ninzū o fuyashita toshite mo kawaranai darō.")
Kisame: "It was good that we finally found him at the ramen shop, but… his babysitter is of those 'Legendary Three Shinobi'. With him as our opponent, even the names of Konoha's Uchiha clan and Kiri's Seven Shinobi Swordsmen would be overshadowed." (｢ラーメン屋で やっと見付けたは� ��いが…お守りが あの"伝説の三忍"� ��は。彼が相手では"木ノ葉のうちは� �族"も"霧の忍刀七人衆"の名もかすん� ��しまう。｣, "Rāmenya de yatto mitsuketa wa ii ga… Omori ga ano 'Densetsu no Sannin' to wa. Kare ga aite de wa 'Konoha no Uchiha Ichizoku' mo 'Kiri no Shinobigatana Shichininshū' no na mo kasunde shimau.")
Itachi: "No matter how strong a person is, he will have a weakness…" (｢どんな強者にも弱点というのがあ� ��ものだ……｣, "Donna kyōsha ni mo jakuten to iu no ga aru mono da……")
That's all there is to it. To say that the manga or the character is wrong is just trolling or stupidity.
*sigh*, never had much interest in this thread due to the op not bringing up good enough facts. Merely scratching the surface but also i hate repeating myself. This will most likely be my final post in this thread, so ill entertain you U_U.
Prior to the meeting, he hailed and respected him as one of sannins;
You must be registered for see images
Firstly when jiraiya did finally arrive. Is this the reaction of somebody (kisame) who he claimed would lose to jiraiya, before their encounter;
You must be registered for see images
He repeats the phrase about him being a sannin again, but this time he goes further and mocks him right in front of him. Is the first situation, jiraiya wasnt there and he praises him. Yet in the second situation, jiriaya was there and he disrespects him. Ask your self, should it not be the other way. Where he mocks him in the first link, then respects him in his presence, yet he does the opposite.
Look at the gap between jiriaya and kisame and tell me, is this the action of somebody who isnt confident in their own abilities;
You must be registered for see images
Look at itachi's response, is this from somebody who scared;
You must be registered for see images
Look at how both (kisame and itachi) casually turned the other way to look at sasuke;
You must be registered for see images
Look at how itachi casually walks to sasuke. Turns his back at jiraiya. Seems like he has great confidence in kisame to leave him to jiraiya;
You must be registered for see images
Itachi beats sasuke causally to a pulp with taijutsu;
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Itachi in that same day has already used tsukuyomi on kakashi. After beating sasuke to a pulp, he need not use tsukuyomi. He couldve saved his chakra for jiraiya if he really did consider jiraiya a threat, yet he used another tsukuyomi this time on sasuke right infront of jiraiya. Is this the action of a man who is scared. To use another high chakra consumption technique right before the man whom you claim at best you would draw against?;
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Only when has naruto distracted kisame, did jiraiya have the time to use his frog stomach technique. Before he was kept at bay;
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Kisame asked itachi and i quote ' why is a retreat necessary". Is this the words of somebody who was scared of the situation. He questioned itachi's motive. Kisame himself when the time came wasnt fazed by jiraiya at all. Anyway itachi gave him an excuse to which he believed;
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Kisame questions itachi again in relation to the kyuubi and itachi again gives him an excuse. Not that in this seen was when kisame has defeated the 4th tailed jinchrucki and complained of being abit tired. Kisame most likely assumes that naruto is still jiraiya's keeper and yet he isnt exactly afraid of going after the 9 tails;
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All youve said in this paragraph holds no substance and ill start by asking what exactly is a sannin. I always laugh whenever i hear people in vs threads say "jiraiya/oro/tsunade would win because he is a sannin". What exatly is a sannin?. This is what is a sannin is;
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After being defeated by Hanzou, he gave them the title sannin. Such a title holds little relevance especially in vs threads. In the manga it holds a bit of substance, due to hype of hanzou. Hope you note the word hype;
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What im trying to say is that in the manga there has been alot of hype about people. But that doesnt mean that due to their hype they are strong enough nor does it mean, when a character praises a fellow strong character does it mean they are establishing inferiority between them and the character in question and ill demonstrate.
Zetsu praise for jiraiya;
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Oro gives praise to sarutobi twice in the link below yet mocks him in the scene. He has great respect for what he has done, but that doesnt mean he is establishing inferiority to him;
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Oonoki out of respects praises madara (who is actually tobi but thats not the point) and acknowledges his strength;
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Yet when the time comes, although he still holds madara in high regards in the situation he isnt nerves to challenge him;
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What im trying to say is that just because a character has commented on another character doesnt mean they are inferior to them. They just acknowledge their hype or abilities. Whenever a character has acknowledged another characters abilities, this never seizes them from encountering the person whom they praised. Its respect for another strong character.
Similarly just because a character has praised anotehr character who they beat does not mean that they are inferior to the character they beat. Its just out of respect. Seems like alot of people take confuse praise with inferiority. Thats how it is in the manga. Strong characters have praise for each other. Example after sasuke defeats orochimaru, he downplays his victory and claims that its because oro was weakened did he have the chance to win. Although i agree that a oro at his best would challenge sasuke all the way, but the point im making is that, thats how characters in the manga are. They praise one another;
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Similarly alot of people have blown what pein's words out of context and even claimed jiraiya > pein. Yet it was praise for his former sensei and in the link he says this himself;
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Finally, only when two ninja's have been in battle can the losers inferiority hold any substance, otherwise what they say is out of admiration or respect. Itachi has already bested oro and oro acknowledged his as being superior to him;
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Similarly itachi has bested kakashi and kakashi acknowledges this;
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Personally i wasn't impressed with the op for me to create such a post. All he said was scrap the surface with data book and what a character has said. If mayn people on this forum where to analyse a situation in depth, i would enjoy nb more, but due to this ive with hold from getting into any sort of arguments because a lot of people on this site are either simple minded or refuse to analyse things. Now alot of people might say im an itachi fan, sure ive never denied this, but you see ive great reasons for saying itachi> jiraiya and kisame > jiraiya, whilst the others that say otherwise merely quote what a character has said about another character. Others say i over analyse situaitons, i dont think so i just like to get to the bottom of things instead of using what a character has said, which if you translate it, its either praise or admiration.
So far nobody has come up with a good enough reason why they believe jiraiya > kisame or jiraiya > itachi. The merely bring up the same thing over and over again. Nothing interesting if you ask me. I do intend this to be my last post in this thread though
I’m not impressed by your performance. For all your teasing, jabs, ignorance and arrogance; is this is really the best you can come up with? A bunch of assumptions coupled with statements made in the manga, which you ironically haven’t even disproven. That giant wall-of-text is nothing but smoke and mirrors and I think, deep down, you know it.
From the outside, it looks like a good and well-thought out post, yet when you bring out the microscope all you see is an argument based entirely on whether or not a person “look “ like he would say something. I don’t know you, but I don’t know anybody who wins arguments’ like that. You have already been disproven twice in this thread (Itachi stating that and whether or not they were talking about Naruto ), yet you talk about people not being worthy of your time, bullocks.
Remind me, what was the point of showing people getting praised? I mean, your holier than thou attitude fell short the moment you failed to back up your fan-fiction. Kisame is a warrior, and a cocky one at that, obviously he’s going to have his game-face on when he faces his opponent directly. It’s called common sense and common warfare. What did you expect? Did you expect him to see him trembling in fear? What made that statement so powerful was the fact that Kisame didn’t take crap from anybody, he even doubted Itachi could take him out, alone; hence the word implied. The only way you can question the validity of a source, is if you can find statements directly contradicting the statement in discussion, by the way, which you have completely failed to do.
Ironically, you even bring out Orchimaru’s statement which was said when Itachi wasn’t present. Your entire arguments were, falsely, dependant on the fact Kisame didn’t utter those words to Jiraya’s face, and then you go on to use the statement Oro made to your advantage, which completely contradicts your entire point.:|
I’m sure the fanboys will jump all over it, however no factual/logical arguments were present in your long response.It's what it's. Kishi will always be right and, he alone, is the only one who can correct/change stuff he drawed which would've automatically manifested itself into the current manga.Until then, you have a right to believe whatever you want, however you cannot claim it to be a fact.I could make up several, legitimate, scenarios where Orochimaru defeats Itachi, but a single person, with the Orochimaru scan will always win over me.Why? Because manga said so..U_U
Edit:
Btw, don't take it personal.Merely critiquing the post.
*sigh*, never had much interest in this thread due to the op not bringing up good enough facts. Merely scratching the surface but also i hate repeating myself. This will most likely be my final post in this thread, so ill entertain you U_U.
Prior to the meeting, he hailed and respected him as one of sannins;
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Firstly when jiraiya did finally arrive. Is this the reaction of somebody (kisame) who he claimed would lose to jiraiya, before their encounter;
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He repeats the phrase about him being a sannin again, but this time he goes further and mocks him right in front of him. Is the first situation, jiraiya wasnt there and he praises him. Yet in the second situation, jiriaya was there and he disrespects him. Ask your self, should it not be the other way. Where he mocks him in the first link, then respects him in his presence, yet he does the opposite.
Look at the gap between jiriaya and kisame and tell me, is this the action of somebody who isnt confident in their own abilities;
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Look at itachi's response, is this from somebody who scared;
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Look at how both (kisame and itachi) casually turned the other way to look at sasuke;
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Look at how itachi casually walks to sasuke. Turns his back at jiraiya. Seems like he has great confidence in kisame to leave him to jiraiya;
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Itachi beats sasuke causally to a pulp with taijutsu;
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Itachi in that same day has already used tsukuyomi on kakashi. After beating sasuke to a pulp, he need not use tsukuyomi. He couldve saved his chakra for jiraiya if he really did consider jiraiya a threat, yet he used another tsukuyomi this time on sasuke right infront of jiraiya. Is this the action of a man who is scared. To use another high chakra consumption technique right before the man whom you claim at best you would draw against?;
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Only when has naruto distracted kisame, did jiraiya have the time to use his frog stomach technique. Before he was kept at bay;
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Kisame asked itachi and i quote ' why is a retreat necessary". Is this the words of somebody who was scared of the situation. He questioned itachi's motive. Kisame himself when the time came wasnt fazed by jiraiya at all. Anyway itachi gave him an excuse to which he believed;
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Kisame questions itachi again in relation to the kyuubi and itachi again gives him an excuse. Not that in this seen was when kisame has defeated the 4th tailed jinchrucki and complained of being abit tired. Kisame most likely assumes that naruto is still jiraiya's keeper and yet he isnt exactly afraid of going after the 9 tails;
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All youve said in this paragraph holds no substance and ill start by asking what exactly is a sannin. I always laugh whenever i hear people in vs threads say "jiraiya/oro/tsunade would win because he is a sannin". What exatly is a sannin?. This is what is a sannin is;
You must be registered for see images
After being defeated by Hanzou, he gave them the title sannin. Such a title holds little relevance especially in vs threads. In the manga it holds a bit of substance, due to hype of hanzou. Hope you note the word hype;
You must be registered for see images
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What im trying to say is that in the manga there has been alot of hype about people. But that doesnt mean that due to their hype they are strong enough nor does it mean, when a character praises a fellow strong character does it mean they are establishing inferiority between them and the character in question and ill demonstrate.
Zetsu praise for jiraiya;
You must be registered for see images
Oro gives praise to sarutobi twice in the link below yet mocks him in the scene. He has great respect for what he has done, but that doesnt mean he is establishing inferiority to him;
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Oonoki out of respects praises madara (who is actually tobi but thats not the point) and acknowledges his strength;
You must be registered for see images
Yet when the time comes, although he still holds madara in high regards in the situation he isnt nerves to challenge him;
You must be registered for see images
What im trying to say is that just because a character has commented on another character doesnt mean they are inferior to them. They just acknowledge their hype or abilities. Whenever a character has acknowledged another characters abilities, this never seizes them from encountering the person whom they praised. Its respect for another strong character.
Similarly just because a character has praised anotehr character who they beat does not mean that they are inferior to the character they beat. Its just out of respect. Seems like alot of people take confuse praise with inferiority. Thats how it is in the manga. Strong characters have praise for each other. Example after sasuke defeats orochimaru, he downplays his victory and claims that its because oro was weakened did he have the chance to win. Although i agree that a oro at his best would challenge sasuke all the way, but the point im making is that, thats how characters in the manga are. They praise one another;
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Similarly alot of people have blown what pein's words out of context and even claimed jiraiya > pein. Yet it was praise for his former sensei and in the link he says this himself;
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Finally, only when two ninja's have been in battle can the losers inferiority hold any substance, otherwise what they say is out of admiration or respect. Itachi has already bested oro and oro acknowledged his as being superior to him;
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Similarly itachi has bested kakashi and kakashi acknowledges this;
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Personally i wasn't impressed with the op for me to create such a post. All he said was scrap the surface with data book and what a character has said. If mayn people on this forum where to analyse a situation in depth, i would enjoy nb more, but due to this ive with hold from getting into any sort of arguments because a lot of people on this site are either simple minded or refuse to analyse things. Now alot of people might say im an itachi fan, sure ive never denied this, but you see ive great reasons for saying itachi> jiraiya and kisame > jiraiya, whilst the others that say otherwise merely quote what a character has said about another character. Others say i over analyse situaitons, i dont think so i just like to get to the bottom of things instead of using what a character has said, which if you translate it, its either praise or admiration.
So far nobody has come up with a good enough reason why they believe jiraiya > kisame or jiraiya > itachi. The merely bring up the same thing over and over again. Nothing interesting if you ask me. I do intend this to be my last post in this thread though
This was pretty well done but honestly your just wasting your time writing that. Even with all the dialog and truths in the manga being revealed, people will still cling to their personal opinions even if they are wrong. Some people just wont admit to defeat.
