Misconception: Itachi > Jiraiya

[siyo]

It's common knowledge that the Sharingan can see through Genjutsu. A Dojutsu that can break Tsukuyomi can obviously break the illusion used by the two great elders, too.

Well, since it's common knowledge you wouldn't have a problem producing a scan, right? The sharingan is an eye doujutsu which indicates that the eye can see through visual genjutsus - not ones directed elsewhere.It's also stated in the manga that sound genjutsus are superior to visual ones.

Btw, why do you put emphasis on Tsukuyomi when Itachi was caught in a higher ranked jutsu?

 

[Viewtiful]

Sasuke never caught Itachi in a illusion, Itachi always cast an illusion on top of Sasukes. It does not matter which kind of Genjutu it is, it has the same princip. The Sharingan can break through Tsukuyomi. Obviously it can do it by the sound Genjutsu too. It's like to say, the Rinnegan can only absorb Katon- and Raiton-Jutsus but not Suiton.

Except the Rinnegan can absorb chakra, so its nature being transformed doesn't change anything. The Sharingan can see through genjutsu, but really visual genjutsu because they can tell it's an illusion, hence "seeing through it". You can't see through sound, and the effect of Toad Confrontation Chant disorients the user as well as placing them in a genjutsu.

 

[Raito]

Are you an idiot? It does not matter what kind of Genjutsu is is, the Sharingan sees through illusions. Tsukuyomi, Sasukes Genjutsus, Kurenai Genjutsus, the frogs Genjutsus, all of them are illusions. The Sharingan has the ability to see through illusions. When Jiraiya will catch Itachi in this illusion, Itachi will break through it. No matter whether it's a visual or sound Genjutsu, it's an illusion and the Sharingan can see through it and can it even throw back to Jiraiya (for example as he did it on Kurenais Genjutsu or Deidaras technique).

So stop talking bullshit.

 

[StrifeMaccy]

Jiraiya has proved himself to be a superb, experienced and wise combatant. Then theres Itachis and Kisames admissions, and yet people are still in denial about Jiraiya being at least equal to Itachi.
Maybe if Itachi had, had the chance to live another 20 years (ignoring eye degradation) he probably would of surpassed Jiraiya, but at the current Naruto time, he is at best equal (at his own admission)

People who are ignoring these facts are;
a) blindly in love with Itachi
b) needing a trip to the opticians, or have been reading a poorly translated version of naruto manga
c) just like arguing for the sake of arguing even if they're wrong.
d) morons

 

[siyo]

Are you an idiot? It does not matter what kind of Genjutsu is is, the Sharingan sees through illusions. Tsukuyomi, Sasukes Genjutsus, Kurenai Genjutsus, the frogs Genjutsus, all of them are illusions. The Sharingan has the ability to see through illusions. When Jiraiya will catch Itachi in this illusion, Itachi will break through it. No matter whether it's a visual or sound Genjutsu, it's an illusion and the Sharingan can see through it and can it even throw back to Jiraiya (for example as he did it on Kurenais Genjutsu or Deidaras technique).

So stop talking bullshit.

:| Oh the irony...

 

[Viewtiful]

Are you an idiot? It does not matter what kind of Genjutsu is is, the Sharingan sees through illusions. Tsukuyomi, Sasukes Genjutsus, Kurenai Genjutsus, the frogs Genjutsus, all of them are illusions. The Sharingan has the ability to see through illusions. When Jiraiya will catch Itachi in this illusion, Itachi will break through it. No matter whether it's a visual or sound Genjutsu, it's an illusion and the Sharingan can see through it and can it even throw back to Jiraiya (for example as he did it on Kurenais Genjutsu or Deidaras technique).

So stop talking bullshit.

You cannot just "break an illusion" because you feel like it. The Sharingan sees through visual illusions. Itachi didn't see through Kurenai's illusion, he used a technique that reverses lower level illusions back on the caster. Sound based Genjutsu was stated by Shikamaru to be the most potent because it's long range and you only have to hear it for it to take effect. And if breaking out of Toad Confrontation Chant was as simple as you foolishly think, Pain would have done it with ease.

 

[FloriGlori]

Well, since it's common knowledge you wouldn't have a problem producing a scan, right? The sharingan is an eye doujutsu which indicates that the eye can see through visual genjutsus - not ones directed elsewhere.It's also stated in the manga that sound genjutsus are superior to visual ones.

Btw, why do you put emphasis on Tsukuyomi when Itachi was caught in a higher ranked jutsu?

I would, since even I don't know any page by heart. Obvious, isn't it?

It would seem that you have the wrong idea about Genjutsu. Acoustic illusions were said to be superior to visual ones in terms of usage, since they're much harder to avoid. You can't just close your ears like you can close your eyes. But that's all there is to it. The kind of usage does not influence the effect an illusion has. Each and every Genjutsu affects the brain. Since the Sharingan is also able to break Tsukuyomi, which is far beyoned a mere visual technique, your statement has already been contradicted. Koto Amatsukamo totally differs from any other illusion, therefore you can't take it into comparisson. I'll explain it properly after I answered destined 2 win.

Yes, destined 2 win. Sasuke caught Itachi in an illusion. Itachi immediately detected it and countered it by placing another Genjutsu on top of Sasuke's. It was a multi-layered illusion. The first one was placed by Itachi - he made Sasuke attack an illusionary Karasu Bunshin while his alleged real body was watching from the throne. Sasuke saw through that ilussion - he turned out out to be an illusionary Hebi Bunshin. Hereupon his real self appeared behind Itachi's alleged real body and stabbed him through the throne. Yet Itachi already saw through this illusion and his alleged real body on the throne turned out to be a third Genjutsu. Itachi was watching from his throne all the time. The following part will explain why there's no difference between breaking a visual and an acoustic Genjutsu.

___ ___ ___

There's no difference between breaking an illusion cast with the eyes and an acoustic one. They only differ in terms of usage; but in the end all of them affect the brain. Nobody is immune to Genjutsu, everybody can be caught inside an illusion. It's just that some people can break them while others can't.

Step 1
The Genjutsu 'enters' the mind. May it be through a flute melody, a frog song, eye contact or by merely pointing at the enemy. Everybody can be caught inside an illusion, even a perfect Jinchuuriki. This is not the step where the illusion is broken, therefore there's no difference between acoustic and visual.

Step 2
Now the illusion 'entered' the enemy's mind and has been succesfully caught. Now there's no more difference between accoustic and visual illusions - that's just the way they are used. In the end they affected the brain. Now it can or can't be broken.

Step 3
Now Itachi can break the Genjutsu. Since every Genjutsu works the same way and manipulates all five senses, and the Sharingan enables its user to break illusions, there's no problem about it.

 

[Viewtiful]

@Above Woah woah woah. It was never said that all Genjutsu affect the brain in the same way, just through the same. The manipulate the 5 senses, but not the same way. That's like saying Temari's Wind Release techniques damaged opponents the same way as Naruto's Rasenshuriken does just because they're both Wind Release. Toad Confr. Chant disorients dojutsu users as can be seen when used against Pain. And the only time Itachi was affected by a non-visual Genjutsu he didn't even see through it, he just use Mirror Heaven and Earth Change to reverse it back at Kurenai since it was low enough in level for him to do so. The reason why I doubt Itachi could break it is because the technique extends beyond the effects of ordinary genjutsu and paralyzes the opponent and makes them unconscious.

 

[siyo]

I would, since even I don't know any page by heart. Obvious, isn't it?

It would seem that you have the wrong idea about Genjutsu. Acoustic illusions were said to be superior to visual ones in terms of usage, since they're much harder to avoid. You can't just close your ears like you can close your eyes. But that's all there is to it. The kind of usage does not influence the effect an illusion has. Each and every Genjutsu affects the brain. Since the Sharingan is also able to break Tsukuyomi, which is far beyoned a mere visual technique, your statement has already been contradicted. Koto Amatsukamo totally differs from any other illusion, therefore you can't take it into comparisson. I'll explain it properly after I answered destined 2 win.

Nope, I merely mentioned it was superior.Nothing more nothing less.No need for a lecture in how genjutsu works, especially when you can't back up what you claim.The burden of proof is on you, so I won't bother here, e.g it was never stated genjutsu affected the brain the same, and just because you can ,theoretically, break all genjutsu doesn't mean you will be able to do so in time i.e tsukuyomi.Obviously, the highest ranked genjutsus around will do the damage before you realize you're in one -something you completely ignored above. Selective reading?

 

[johnny335704]

Itachi himself admitted it to go against Jiraiya..... So what else is required... If people really consider Itachi an intelligent and highly skilled ninja then they must believe that Itachi won't say anything which has no meaning.

 

[FloriGlori]

Nope, I merely mentioned it was superior.Nothing more nothing less.No need for a lecture in how genjutsu works, especially when you can't back up what you claim.The burden of proof is on you, so I won't bother here, e.g it was never stated genjutsu affected the brain the same, and just because you can ,theoretically, break all genjutsu doesn't mean you will be able to do so in time i.e tsukuyomi.Obviously, the highest ranked genjutsus around will do the damage before you realize you're in one -something you completely ignored above. Selective reading?

Oh, I can totally back up my claim on how Genjutsu works. Of course every Genjutsu has another effect, yet all of them affect the brain, more precisely the five senses, which is why there's no difference in canceling a visual or acoustic Genjutsu. It merely depends on how strong an illusion is. That's my point.

 

[StrifeMaccy]

Itachi himself admitted it to go against Jiraiya..... So what else is required... If people really consider Itachi an intelligent and highly skilled ninja then they must believe that Itachi won't say anything which has no meaning.

People are just in desperate denial because it goes against how they wish it was in the Narutoverse... but if they're that upset about how it really is in the Narutoverse, they should make themselves a fanfic to keep them happy

 

[Viewtiful]

Oh, I can totally back up my claim on how Genjutsu works. Of course every Genjutsu has another effect, yet all of them affect the brain, more precisely the five senses, which is why there's no difference in canceling a visual or acoustic Genjutsu. It merely depends on how strong an illusion is. That's my point.

Affecting things=/=affecting them the same. I pointed that out earlier. And in the Toad Chant one, there are effects other than the illusion cast, which in that case is body paralysis and unconsciousness, which you cannot simply break out of, if escaping the illusion is even possible sans-Perfect Jinchuriki.

 

[Rafeal brown]

Except the Rinnegan can absorb chakra, so its nature being transformed doesn't change anything. The Sharingan can see through genjutsu, but really visual genjutsu because they can tell it's an illusion, hence "seeing through it". You can't see through sound, and the effect of Toad Confrontation Chant disorients the user as well as placing them in a genjutsu.

let's see what wiki says about genjutsu

You must be registered for see links

^^ both sound and visual genjutsu work the same way by taking over the victim's five senses and manipulating the chakra in the victim's brain... Having taken over the victim's senses, the user can easily make the victim see false images or go go through phantom experience and pains... He who possess a sharingan can "see through" these false images or pains... Genjutsu is genjutsu be it sound or visual, stop making it seem like they are different.

 

[Viewtiful]

let's see what wiki says about genjutsu

You must be registered for see links

^^ both sound and visual genjutsu work the same way by taking over the victim's five senses and manipulating the chakra in the victim's brain... Having taken over the victim's senses, the user can easily make the victim see false images or go go through phantom experience and pains... He who possess a sharingan can "see through" these false images or pains... Genjutsu is genjutsu be it sound or visual, stop making it seem like they are different.

Read my post above yours.

 

[hgngr]

Bro Jiraiya killed 3 pains then fought the other 3, he didn't know they could be revived and got surprised attack. itachi stated himself even if there were more of them, they would all DIE and this includes Jiraiya. Do you really think Jiraiya who has more knowledge on Itachi and Akatsuki than Kakashi (and he was't confident in his powers to win) since he spied on them for years would have such confidence if he didn't know that he could win? This is the same Jiraiya that was causious to fight Pain and had to get info from lower class ninjas and had the frog with Naruto's seal key, took on 3 Pains (Kage level each then all 6 Pains and killed 3 Pains then 1 more before getting his hand blown off and stabbed from the revived Pains who surprised attacked him. Jiraiya had years of spy knowledge on Itachi (who's also from his village) and Kisame seeing he told Kakashi about him to.

and then when jiraiya saw amaterasu he surprised.(before the fight between itachi and the kid sasuke)
is it the spy knowledge on itachi?
jiraiya's weak point is genjutsu and itachi's strong side is genjutsu
itachi is wrong opponent for jiraiya that's all

 

[StrifeMaccy]

people are getting the wrong idea about Jiraiya and genjutsu.
He may not be the best at casting it, but hes going to be good at escaping them, thats why he was so keen on teaching naruto how to escape as hes useless at them to

 

[Hushabye]

You presented a clear case as to why you think to believe the two are equal, but I disagree with you on some cases.

I think Itachi has the tools to beat Jiraiya, that being said I do think it would be a closely contested affair considering we've no idea on the circumstances such a fight would come about.

Regardless of my opinion, great read!

 

[Zato]

Manga aside, I think Itachi can beat Jiraiya but he will obviously have trouble doing so. Same for most people in this series. But of course we are going off a sick Itachi who needed to rest often. So Kishi handicapped him from the get go. Somewhat like Nagato. Itachi didn't fight Jiraiya there for a few reasons, one was so they don't start a war with Konoha. If they would have killed Jiraiya then they most likely would have started one. Itachi+Kisame would beat Jiraiya with little problem.

 

[Raito]

One eye contact leaves Jiraiya mental destroyed instantly, one glance of Itachi kill him instantly, Susanoo protects Itachi from any attack and crush Jiraiya with a single blow. Don't get absurd with your ideas.