Lets get something straight about Naruto vs Pain!

[The God of Wind]

who the hell are you to judge them and call them animals?? Hidan believes in his religion and that's why he does what he does.. Deidara is like an anti government anarchist.. respect his way of life :flaw:



you only hate the word "plot" because its Naruto's most powerful jutsu and without it, he'd be dead a million times by now.. so how about YOU just sit back, stop b*tching, and enjoy the show with a nice :ice:

heres a quote by hidan "Yeah hurts good doesn't it? Attacking the vitals is such a waste! This pain, this is the best! As the other dies, their agony radiates through my body! And living through it feels even better"
Some religion huh? And im supposed to respect that? lol
Not that he isnt entertaining......Deidara was a mad man, he killed people to show off his art.

And no ur wrong, Naruto has deserved every victory due to his effort. He has proved his words time and time again, that is the thing he does best. Even Kurama agrees

 

[DeViliShChild]

the only problem I have with this is that Pain didn't have the ability to use the Deva path because he was on cool down after destroying all of Konoha. I think the outcome probably would have been tipped into Nagato's favor if it wasn't for that.

 

[6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8]

heres a quote by hidan "Yeah hurts good doesn't it? Attacking the vitals is such a waste! This pain, this is the best! As the other dies, their agony radiates through my body! And living through it feels even better"
Some religion huh? And im supposed to respect that? lol
Not that he isnt entertaining......Deidara was a mad man, he killed people to show off his art.

And no ur wrong, Naruto has deserved every victory due to his effort. He has proved his words time and time again, that is the thing he does best. Even Kurama agrees

hey that's what his religion asks for so that's what he does.. why not enjoy it?? and deidara was more of a gun for hire.. but whatever reasons they had for living the life they did is their own.. who are we to question or judge it? is there anything you've done that's such a great contribution to mankind that you can put down other people's way of living??

and "deserved every victory"?? i guess you're also the type that says absolutely nothing was given to him and that the kyuubi played zero part in any of his fights huh :sy:

 

[FizzyDrink]

And no ur wrong, Naruto has deserved every victory due to his effort. He has proved his words time and time again, that is the thing he does best. Even Kurama agrees

Sure he deserved the victories, but you can't say the continuation of plot didn't aid them. That's all that plot no jutsu is. The plot of the story altering the circumstances to aid one or the other character. And it is an entirely reasonable entity.

 

[The God of Wind]

hey that's what his religion asks for so that's what he does.. why not enjoy it?? who are we to question or judge it?

deserved every victory?? i guess you're also the type that says absolutely nothing was given to him and that the kyuubi played zero part in any of his fights huh :sy:

So if he can go around killing people in the name of his god he deserves respect? theirs a name for these kind of people its "terrorist". and many more, but none of them deserve any respect.


Nagato was given a Rinnegan, did you forget that?

The plot of the story altering the circumstances to aid one or the other character. And it is an entirely reasonable entity.

I disagree, and I refuse to recognise it as such regardless of the amount of reason in it, as a true manga/anime fan and a Naruto fan. Im sure many others would agree.

 

[6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8]

So if he can go around killing people in the name of his god he deserves respect? theirs a name for these kind of people its "terrorist". and many more, but none of them deserve any respect.


Nagato was given a Rinnegan, did you forget that?



I disagree, and I refuse to recognise it as such regardless of the amount of reason in it, as a true manga/anime fan and a Naruto fan. Im sure many others would agree.

its a FICTIONAL story with FICTIONAL characters in FICTIONAL situations.. so pull the stick outta your ass already..

and whether nagato was given the rinnegan or not is still to be determined..

but naruto was GIVEN the 9 tails and its been that same 9 tails that's saved his ass n won almost all his fights for him.. i'll give him a "deserved" win for the only times that the 9 tails played ZERO part in a fight...and tbh, other than against kakuzo, i can't think of any...

 

[icedonkey]

What it all comes down to is that pain had MANY handicaps
while Naruto had none
(if you believe Naruto being too afraid to use the nine tails counts as a handicap my response that would be

1.) I personally don't count a bijuu's power as one's own power (it is basically another person giving you their own chakra, much different say then Sasuke's EMS or Kakashi's sharingan or indeed Nagato's rinnegan, as your using your own energy to power it)

2.)it can be argued that pain could fight and beat a full 9 tails .

If your point is that we should acknowledge that Naruto beat pain..sure, under very VERY favorable circumstances,

 

[6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8]

[/QUOTE]as a true manga/anime fan and a Naruto fan. Im sure many others would agree.[/QUOTE]

bold part is the only reason you made this thread.. naruto is the character that is surrounded by the most talk/plot jutsu situations and that's why you mad U_U

 

[Uchiha boii]

sm naruto cannot beat pain thats what people forget sm naruto was pinned down and would have been killed if hinata didnt sacrifice herself to unleash the kyuubi but your thread is completely write the way the story is written naruto won and thats a fact so +rep to you bro

 

[WindStyleKamehaShuriken]

1st off pain wasnt trying to kill naruto
2nd naruto had hella help including katsuya giving him intel on the different paths he had prepared 2 shadow clones to keep sm up and running plus he had help from the whole damn mt myoboko population
3rd had hinata not intervened naruto would be captured...plot
4th in a 1 v 1 fight rether to kill or to capture once someone else intervenes you lose therefore naruto lost
5th nagato could dtill use paths to kill naruto but didnt...plot
6th had naruto not had the pery sages book which was brought up by plot he wpuldve died...plot

i love naruto i really do but he didnt stand a chance againt nagato he lost plot saved his ass plenty

 

[ShishaMastah420]

Literally one of the best Nagato&Naruto threads I've seen here on NB...You didn't prematurly end the fight and try to argument one PoV...

+Rep...

 

[The God of Wind]

its a FICTIONAL story with FICTIONAL characters in FICTIONAL situations.. so pull the stick outta your ass already..
and whether nagato was given the rinnegan or not is still to be determined..

What exactly do you mean by that? and I would cut out the ass stuff If I were you
Tobi only lies when it is a necessity to him, he didnt need to lie to someone he was about to murder in a few minutes. He gave Nagato the Rinnegan to revive himself in his true form, that his how the real Madara knows about it. And that is pretty much a fact.

bold part is the only reason you made this thread.. naruto is the character that is surrounded by the most talk/plot jutsu situations and that's why you mad U_U.

Lol!! I meant Naruto the manga buddy!xd My favorites would have to be Jiraiya, Naruto and Sasuke. But that has nothing to do with my opinion!

 

[Sashimi Kun]

No point trying to justify plot. If Nagato wanted to kill him he would have easily.

But that wasnt in the plot. Now youre the one bringing in what ifs.

 

[SuperJak777]

Agreed

 

[The God of Wind]

the only problem I have with this is that Pain didn't have the ability to use the Deva path because he was on cool down after destroying all of Konoha. I think the outcome probably would have been tipped into Nagato's favor if it wasn't for that.

Thats okay, Naruto didnt use the Kyuubi, until after Pain used Deva Path. So its more than fair

 

[Myogen]

It is plot that Nagato had a change of heart in the sense that this is what Kishimoto wanted to happen and made it so. Everything bends to the whim of which direction Kishimoto wants to take the plot, that's just the facts.

But I do think people underestimate Naruto and overestimate Nagato. Both of them are in the same tier, which means a match between them comes down to circumstance (knowledge and plot). Knowledge determines who has the advantage or best odds of winning, while plot decides the ultimate outcome.

In the match that happened in the manga canon, Nagato had knowledge on his side, while Naruto had plot on his side. The only things Nagato didn't have knowledge on when it came to Naruto was Frog Katas and FRS. On the other hand Naruto had to learn about Pain on the fly ether by figuring things out on his own or only recieving knowledge from Katsuya/Fusaku/Shima whenever they felt like sharing it with him. If knowledge was equal Nagato wouldn't have known about Magen: Gama Rinshō and there is a decent shot that Pain would have been defeated by Magen: Gama Rinshō before all that other shit with Hinata, Kurama, Minato, etc... happened. Than if Naruto was just trying to kill Nagato, rather than wishing to talk to him, there is any number of more effective ways he could have taken on crippled Nagato rather than simply appearing directly in-front of him.

Naruto had plot on his side, since he couldn't die at this junction in the manga, so Kishimoto ensured his victory by Deva needing to recharge and compensated for Nagato's knowledge advantage with the Hinata, Kurama, and Minato stuff giving Naruto a second chance to face Deva Realm with equalized knowledge.

Without the plot on his side Naruto would have lost, due to Nagato having the knowledge advantage. But this doesn't mean under different circumstances Naruto couldn't have won w/o the plot on his side. For example if Naruto had the knowledge advantage going into the match, even if Deva wasn't recharging, he'd have a good chance to win. Naruto would have Shima and Fusaku start Magen: Gama Rinshō right away knowing the threat of Deva Path, than all he would need to do is hold of Pain Rikudo for a little bit until the song took effect, which with full knowledge he should be more than capable of.

 

[FizzyDrink]

I disagree, and I refuse to recognise it as such regardless of the amount of reason in it, as a true manga/anime fan and a Naruto fan. Im sure many others would agree.

Bolded part is where you just go ridiculous. Without reason, you have no argument. With no argument, you have no reason to be arguing. With no reason to be arguing, you have no reason to have made this thread.

Plot no jutsu is a thing. No matter your claim that a "true" fan doesn't believe it, it's true. Plot aids certain characters in certain fights. If Orochimaru wasn't trying to humiliate the Third Hokage, and was just trying to kill him, would he have lost his arms and the Second and First Hokage's as his edo's? No. In a true fight, he doesn't lose his arms. He wins. That is an example of plot no jutsu. No matter how much you don't want to think about it, plot creates optimum circumstances for the good guy in many situations, and you have to figure them out, and then if you're trying to figure out who is stronger in reality, count them out. It makes sense. I'm using REASON.

But since to you, reason clearly doesn't matter, I'll let you go on thinking that everything that happens in the story is a full representation of the truth. Maybe next time you can create a thread explaining to us why Goku and Superman are going to come in and abduct Ton Ton. I mean, clearly, reason is not an issue for you.

 

[The God of Wind]

Bolded part is where you just go ridiculous. Without reason, you have no argument. With no argument, you have no reason to be arguing. With no reason to be arguing, you have no reason to have made this thread.

Plot no jutsu is a thing. No matter your claim that a "true" fan doesn't believe it, it's true. Plot aids certain characters in certain fights. If Orochimaru wasn't trying to humiliate the Third Hokage, and was just trying to kill him, would he have lost his arms and the Second and First Hokage's as his edo's? No. In a true fight, he doesn't lose his arms. He wins. That is an example of plot no jutsu. No matter how much you don't want to think about it, plot creates optimum circumstances for the good guy in many situations, and you have to figure them out, and then if you're trying to figure out who is stronger in reality, count them out. It makes sense. I'm using REASON.

But since to you, reason clearly doesn't matter, I'll let you go on thinking that everything that happens in the story is a full representation of the truth. Maybe next time you can create a thread explaining to us why Goku and Superman are going to come in and abduct Ton Ton. I mean, clearly, reason is not an issue for you.

Your "reason" represents "if's" and "but's". As a fan, I also refuse to recognise "plot" as a viable entity in the development of a manga. A manga is built upon what it means to the fans. "plot" is a writers tool..........

 

[naruto kyuubi]

Your trying to justify the phrase "talk no jutsu","Plot no Jutsu" in the naruto vs pain fight....are you simply forgetting Nagato could still use the paths and defeat naruto without the puppets?To my knowledge naruto wouldn't have thought that he nagato himself could use the powers while thinking it was just the puppets specialty.In either way the fight could of been won by naruto via"Plot no jutsu" or won by nagato.Please understand meaning of the phrase when it is implied to the subject like i just did.

every thing the paths did the chakra drain was on nagato he used hi trump card in chikabu tensai that kyuubi broke out of so there you go he didnt have that power any more and naruto combined sage mode and kyuubi power then nagato would have lost. in edo mode naruto really didnt want to fight nagato other wise he would have attacked first like with he did in the case of other et's. naruto defeated five tailed beasts dude give him some respect

 

[naruto kyuubi]

Your "reason" represents "if's" and "but's". As a fan, I also refuse to recognise "plot" as a viable entity in the development of a manga. A manga is built upon what it means to the fans. "plot" is a writers tool..........

correct one bro in every damn story good guys win with plot its not mma guys its a story where good triumphs on evil