Lets get something straight about Naruto vs Pain!

[Out Of Ctrl]

If you dont see a connection between DBZ and Naruto, then you and I are two completely different people.

Narutos victory over Pains body and soul is fully logical and within my understanding, there was logic in every step of the fight. Even Naruto's new found control after meeting Yondaime is logical.

Kishi is a big fan of DBZ and was inspired by it so of course there are rather obvious similarities and connections that may be found in characters as well as abilities and thats it. But I can't be arsed to list them all.

 

[FizzyDrink]

Your "reason" represents "if's" and "but's". As a fan, I also refuse to recognise "plot" as a viable entity in the development of a manga. A manga is built upon what it means to the fans. "plot" is a writers tool..........

No no, then you don't understand what I'm saying. The fact that there ARE if's and but's are a part of my reasoning.

In a hypothetical battle, there are no if's and there are no but's. The ninja's have what they have. There is no "if he is at half strength" or "if he has a friend nearby", there is only the two ninja, at full power and in their prime state, fighting to kill. That is how we judge who is truly more powerful than the other. "Plot no jutsu" is a term used to represent battles that include one of these ninja that had one or more of these "ifs" or "buts". They may have won or lost, either way, there was something in that battle which created a handicap or aided one or the other ninja. The reason for this handicap/aid is for the continuation of the story, because otherwise, the battle wouldn't have ended the way it did. All that I am currently saying makes sense.

And in case you didn't realize, plot is the storyline. It is the beginning, middle, and end of the manga. EVERYTHING that happens in the manga is PLOT. So in every battle of the manga, there is, in some way "plot no jutsu", where the plot affected the battle in some way. It may or may not have altered the result, but in every battle in the manga itself, and not a hypothetical one, the continuation of the plot, of the STORY, affects it. Understand that "plot no jutsu", or at least what it represents, is a real thing.

 

[Baka Sennin]

well done, perfectly said. Nagato did not change his ideals, he was simply reminded of what he had formerly stood for through Jiraiya's book.

 

[Xicer]

No point trying to justify plot. If Nagato wanted to kill him he would have easily.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Nagato was trying to kill him the entire time so that his justice could come to be and the chain of hatred would end?

 

[The God of Wind]

No no, then you don't understand what I'm saying. The fact that there ARE if's and but's are a part of my reasoning.

In a hypothetical battle, there are no if's and there are no but's. The ninja's have what they have. There is no "if he is at half strength" or "if he has a friend nearby", there is only the two ninja, at full power and in their prime state, fighting to kill. That is how we judge who is truly more powerful than the other. "Plot no jutsu" is a term used to represent battles that include one of these ninja that had one or more of these "ifs" or "buts". They may have won or lost, either way, there was something in that battle which created a handicap or aided one or the other ninja. The reason for this handicap/aid is for the continuation of the story, because otherwise, the battle wouldn't have ended the way it did. All that I am currently saying makes sense.

And in case you didn't realize, plot is the storyline. It is the beginning, middle, and end of the manga. EVERYTHING that happens in the manga is PLOT. So in every battle of the manga, there is, in some way "plot no jutsu", where the plot affected the battle in some way. It may or may not have altered the result, but in every battle in the manga itself, and not a hypothetical one, the continuation of the plot, of the STORY, affects it. Understand that "plot no jutsu", or at least what it represents, is a real thing.

well thats where you and me are different, I dont perceive Naruto as just another story tied to plot like everyone or everything else.......

 

[6thpathsage]

So who here thinks that Naruto's victory over pain was a sham? Or that Naruto only won because God Mode was handicapped? Or that Naruto used "talk no jutsu" or "plot no jutsu" to get one over Pain? For all those who believe in any of these things I have a little message for you............

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And this here.....

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Let me even the odds a bit, Nagato recieved the Rinnegan from Madara and Naruto recieved the Kyuubi from Yondaime Hokage. The ultimate eyes against the ultimate chakra!

If Pain didnt use God Mode against Senjutsu, Naruto didnt use the Kyuubis chakra until Hinata got hurt, the odds were perfectly even. But the indivuals were not!

Let me first express how much I hate the phrase "plot/talk no jutsu" and the people who use it.....well not as much as I hate the phrase itself

If Naruto used talk jutsu to make Pain have a change of heart, then how did you forget about this?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Ill tell you why, because this phenomenon, yes Im talking about "talk no jutsu" does not exist your usage of this phrase demeans the true essence of Naruto and frankly opens the door to a whole new world of shit for the manga, the fans and the forum.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Pain is the only person in history to have almost broken Naruto's spirit. Naruto was losing hope in himself and gradually starting to believe in Nagato's way, because he could not let go of his hatred for Jiraiyas death, it is what he was fighting the 6 Paths with, before losing himself to the Kyuubi!

Nagato and Naruto were two people who had the strength and will to make a drastic impact on the world in their own ways. It had nothing to do with a prophecy from some old sage, not to say that it wasnt true. But it wasnt because of talk jutsu when Nagato realised how his life's decision was a mistake and how he had strayed from his true path. These are elements which are important to the story and the building blocks of Naruto as a manga, for those of you who dont see it that way........I am sorry to say, you should read or watch something else pleaseU_U

Nagato did not do a 180 flip because of a few words, Naruto told him he would not give up or stray from his path no matter what kind of "Pain" came his way, it was an indication on Nagatos life and how his Pain made him think of only destruction. But Naruto meant "I will be different", that no matter what happens "I wont change"! Nagato was thoroughly impressed by Naruto's performance before then and truly believed that just like his Rinnegan, Naruto possessed a power to change the world.

The truth is Nagato believed in Naruto's strength

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

So why cant you?

:noc:I agree! When 2 characters in naruto fight, its not as cut and paste as whoever is the strongest wins. Just like in the dark knight.. whoever is strongest of heart and with the most to prove wins. When naruto lost his self belief he was captured..and had to give his heart to the 9 tails which was obviously stronger than him and could finish the job. When the same thing happens to pain after naruto meets his dad to reconfirm his feelings, he loses due to his weining self confidence and his realisation he had made a mistake with his life choices. Plot no jutsu is real but look at it this way how would naruto tell his life story past the pain encounter if he had died there?? the manga/anime would have ended there.

 

[KiraTsurugi32]

Nice thread good job!

 

[teh all seeing]

just like in everything the main characters going to win just like in DBZ goku always won in the end. its how it always is, the story is written differently but in the end its the way it is, try focusing on more what the story is teaching us.

but for the record pain wasn't in any condition to face naruto he spat blood when fighting was told he was pushing himself to far which sways in naruto's favour, he died after his last jutsu, i dont think he needed alot of power to return all the souls i think you just need to do the jutsu and the souls are released sure more power for going so far back in time to when the souls were taken, he also can do overly much with out his puppets sure so jutsus are done but the fact kohana was there as a body guard shows this

 

[Orochimagus]

Let's get some stuff straight...Nagato is fodder to the extent that Kabuto did not value him much as a summon. He gets sealed after one issue, and he himself called Naruto superior to him, and himself a failure...

 

[ThesixpathsofNaruto]

^This. Pain>SM Naruto

Plot killed Pain.

You deusgh bag there is certain flaws in the mothafu***** six paths technique and naruto won because of it your right that if nagato was 100% naruto would have probably lost but your such an a$$ hole you don't realize this you f**ker!!!:sy:

 

[ThesixpathsofNaruto]

just like in everything the main characters going to win just like in DBZ goku always won in the end. its how it always is, the story is written differently but in the end its the way it is, try focusing on more what the story is teaching us.

but for the record pain wasn't in any condition to face naruto he spat blood when fighting was told he was pushing himself to far which sways in naruto's favour, he died after his last jutsu, i dont think he needed alot of power to return all the souls i think you just need to do the jutsu and the souls are released sure more power for going so far back in time to when the souls were taken, he also can do overly much with out his puppets sure so jutsus are done but the fact kohana was there as a body guard shows this

Thank you!!! Somebody understands in a world of a$$ holes

 

[rikkudou sennin22]

absolute genius of a thread , thanks for clearing all obscurities that the naruto haters have about his victory against pain . :noc:

 

[rikkudou sennin22]

Thank you!!! Somebody understands in a world of a$$ holes

wasnt in any condition to face Naruto ???? are you bent ??? here's a guy who singlehandedly took down Jiraiya, one of the Sannin with only 3 of his puppets .Naruto pushed him so far that he spat blood . get your facts straight or get the f*%k out dude .

 

[Gatsuuga]

So who here thinks that Naruto's victory over pain was a sham? Or that Naruto only won because God Mode was handicapped? Or that Naruto used "talk no jutsu" or "plot no jutsu" to get one over Pain? For all those who believe in any of these things I have a little message for you............

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And this here.....

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Let me even the odds a bit, Nagato recieved the Rinnegan from Madara and Naruto recieved the Kyuubi from Yondaime Hokage. The ultimate eyes against the ultimate chakra!

If Pain didnt use God Mode against Senjutsu, Naruto didnt use the Kyuubis chakra until Hinata got hurt, the odds were perfectly even. But the indivuals were not!

Let me first express how much I hate the phrase "plot/talk no jutsu" and the people who use it.....well not as much as I hate the phrase itself

If Naruto used talk jutsu to make Pain have a change of heart, then how did you forget about this?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Ill tell you why, because this phenomenon, yes Im talking about "talk no jutsu" does not exist your usage of this phrase demeans the true essence of Naruto and frankly opens the door to a whole new world of shit for the manga, the fans and the forum.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Pain is the only person in history to have almost broken Naruto's spirit. Naruto was losing hope in himself and gradually starting to believe in Nagato's way, because he could not let go of his hatred for Jiraiyas death, it is what he was fighting the 6 Paths with, before losing himself to the Kyuubi!

Nagato and Naruto were two people who had the strength and will to make a drastic impact on the world in their own ways. It had nothing to do with a prophecy from some old sage, not to say that it wasnt true. But it wasnt because of talk jutsu when Nagato realised how his life's decision was a mistake and how he had strayed from his true path. These are elements which are important to the story and the building blocks of Naruto as a manga, for those of you who dont see it that way........I am sorry to say, you should read or watch something else pleaseU_U

Nagato did not do a 180 flip because of a few words, Naruto told him he would not give up or stray from his path no matter what kind of "Pain" came his way, it was an indication on Nagatos life and how his Pain made him think of only destruction. But Naruto meant "I will be different", that no matter what happens "I wont change"! Nagato was thoroughly impressed by Naruto's performance before then and truly believed that just like his Rinnegan, Naruto possessed a power to change the world.

The truth is Nagato believed in Naruto's strength

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

So why cant you?

Thank goodness, you sir have single handedly redeemed my faith in Narutobase. I was getting so tired of the stupid threads, but this one makes it worth it. Finally someone that is able to read and comprehend the speech bubbles and not just squeal when an explosion happens. +'rep

 

[6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8]

What exactly do you mean by that? and I would cut out the ass stuff If I were you
Tobi only lies when it is a necessity to him, he didnt need to lie to someone he was about to murder in a few minutes. He gave Nagato the Rinnegan to revive himself in his true form, that his how the real Madara knows about it. And that is pretty much a fact.




Lol!! I meant Naruto the manga buddy!xd My favorites would have to be Jiraiya, Naruto and Sasuke. But that has nothing to do with my opinion!

that this is fake.. so there is no need to get all worked up over what these characters are doing..

and yes please threaten me again online cuz it makes you look that much more...idk bad ass i guess if that's what you think... :|

about the rinnegan, this is only your assumption.. unless you're kishi and already know this for sure.. but you aren't.. so till then just keep it quiet about that..

maybe if he wasn't your main pic then i'd hear you out a bit more.. but you and every other fan boy here do the same thing... complain :sy:

 

[6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8]

You deusgh bag there is certain flaws in the mothafu***** six paths technique and naruto won because of it your right that if nagato was 100% naruto would have probably lost but your such an a$$ hole you don't realize this you f**ker!!!:sy:

you mad bro??

naruto was saved twice by plot against him..

six paths>sm naruto but still won cuz of hinata, kyuubi, and minato
nagato>km naruto but was still saved by itachi

naruto's plot no jutsu>>>>>>>>>everyone else
just accept it xd

 

[gordo1]

Good thread, +rep

 

[Shiny Scrafty]

Didn't read it all and stopped when I knew you were dissing Pain.
If Nagato had all of the Paths in his body instead of letting only ONE PERSON CONTROL ONE POWER, Naruto would've been Raped. Nagato basically made himself a lot weaker separating all his powers. If he was to control all of the powers, he'd be at Maximum and nobody would be able to stop him. I even thought how Naruto easily beat the Paths was BS.

Nagato > Everyone alive when he was alive. That's a fact. If there could be another Main character, Nagato would be one of them. Just like how Naruto's the Main character and is destined to be the strongest Ninja who ever lived. See, Nagato couldn't reach that goal, but he was close. All because of the Plot, and because he wasn't one of the main characters...

P.s I'm amazed at how Tobi started acting Badass when Nagato died, but he stayed his distance and was respecting him when he was alive. He was dissing Nagato when he was dead and all, but where was all that when he was alive? Kinda like how another Male Lion acts to the Leader of the Pride. And then when the Leader dies, that same Lion will try to act badass and take ownership of the Pride.
P.s.s I don't believe that those are Madara's, or Tobi's eyes.

 

[Shiny Scrafty]

Let's get some stuff straight...Nagato is fodder to the extent that Kabuto did not value him much as a summon. He gets sealed after one issue, and he himself called Naruto superior to him, and himself a failure...

No he didn't. You're forgetting the part where he was summoned, and going to the battlegrounds. And plus, if Nagato would've stayed any longer, the bad guys would've won the war. Itachi with the help of the Plot, saved the good guys from loosing with his Sword that seals you with one slice. Think about it. It took two of the strongest Jinchuriki plus one of the 3 strongest Uchihas alive at that time to beat him. He almost OHKO'd 2 of them, but Naruto had to meet Tobi, so that couldn't happen. Damn.

 

[sulanis]

Thank you good sir. People need to stop blaming plot for a fictional story. +rep

sums it up nicely. good job.