Lets get something straight about Naruto vs Pain!

[slaton02]

So who here thinks that Naruto's victory over pain was a sham? Or that Naruto only won because God Mode was handicapped? Or that Naruto used "talk no jutsu" or "plot no jutsu" to get one over Pain? For all those who believe in any of these things I have a little message for you............

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And this here.....

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Let me even the odds a bit, Nagato recieved the Rinnegan from Madara and Naruto recieved the Kyuubi from Yondaime Hokage. The ultimate eyes against the ultimate chakra!

If Pain didnt use God Mode against Senjutsu, Naruto didnt use the Kyuubis chakra until Hinata got hurt, the odds were perfectly even. But the indivuals were not!

Let me first express how much I hate the phrase "plot/talk no jutsu" and the people who use it.....well not as much as I hate the phrase itself

If Naruto used talk jutsu to make Pain have a change of heart, then how did you forget about this?

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Ill tell you why, because this phenomenon, yes Im talking about "talk no jutsu" does not exist your usage of this phrase demeans the true essence of Naruto and frankly opens the door to a whole new world of shit for the manga, the fans and the forum.

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Pain is the only person in history to have almost broken Naruto's spirit. Naruto was losing hope in himself and gradually starting to believe in Nagato's way, because he could not let go of his hatred for Jiraiyas death, it is what he was fighting the 6 Paths with, before losing himself to the Kyuubi!

Nagato and Naruto were two people who had the strength and will to make a drastic impact on the world in their own ways. It had nothing to do with a prophecy from some old sage, not to say that it wasnt true. But it wasnt because of talk jutsu when Nagato realised how his life's decision was a mistake and how he had strayed from his true path. These are elements which are important to the story and the building blocks of Naruto as a manga, for those of you who dont see it that way........I am sorry to say, you should read or watch something else pleaseU_U

Nagato did not do a 180 flip because of a few words, Naruto told him he would not give up or stray from his path no matter what kind of "Pain" came his way, it was an indication on Nagatos life and how his Pain made him think of only destruction. But Naruto meant "I will be different", that no matter what happens "I wont change"! Nagato was thoroughly impressed by Naruto's performance before then and truly believed that just like his Rinnegan, Naruto possessed a power to change the world.

The truth is Nagato believed in Naruto's strength

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So why cant you?

you proved pain's point by bring up hinata if she didn't jump in naruto would have been captured. So naruto had hinata's help in the fight, not fare. Also did you forget he wasn't trying to kill naruto.

 

[Level77Art]

Plus Rep. I will try to keep this thread alive as much as possible.

 

[crocop]

nice answer on "how" naruto whacked pain and also nagato +rep

 

[Fonkyomom]

you proved pain's point by bring up hinata if she didn't jump in naruto would have been captured. So naruto had hinata's help in the fight, not fare. Also did you forget he wasn't trying to kill naruto.

So explain to me your notion of fair, because last time I checked 6 vs 1 isn't fair, and don't bring up the toads because after they were down and out Naruto still had to deal with multiple paths of Pain.

 

[sacredjutsu]

true but the plot did kill nagato he was and still is stronger than naruto

 

[Jaded210]

only thing i disliked on the fight was how the yahiko body didnt lose against the nine taile full cloak. nine tails literally broke boulders on his head and blew him up several times. that part was majorly haxed but yeah we all knew naruto had to win and was gonna win somehow. not only to avenge his master, and avenge his village, but because they needed to show off what sage mode could do, and show how naruto had grown up.

 

[Zayon Uchiha]

Its a good thread but you know that pain couldn't even kill Naruto any way because he needed him alive so i don't know what's the point. and also everyone talks in naruto or else the show would be boring. ( Just fighting without any one talking at all that sucks). Plus Naruto couldn't loose to pain any way with the nine tails so pretty much naruto had the advantage the hole match. I'm not sure if he was gonna be able to beet Nagato though. But i think that because they had the same master that's why they understood each other well.

 

[Fonkyomom]

if Naruto was able to take ALL of the pain's down, it doesn't really matter if Pain wasn't trying to kill him. Pain of course knew that the nine tails power would keep him from death so he did not hold back, the only opportunity he missed out on is when he had Naruto pinned down. He should have knocked Naruto out right then and there but he did not, that is his own fail and it cost him the victory regardless of the plot.

 

[yuan of cruxis]

Although what you say makes sense, but theres no denying certain things such as who couldve won for a reason

Like Neji vs Naruto- As much perception an genuis Neji maybe. He not only felt for a sneak attack that Naruto did throughout the battle, but he somehow couldnt move after 1 hit

They never explain that either

Sasori vs Chiyo and Sakura
Even though Chiyo was a very powerful opponent, and a great match-up for Sasori

That doesnt explain why someone as smart as him in his field of fighting decided to do a close range attack on Sakura with the 3rd Kazekage puppet, when he thought she was poisoned. When he couldve just been at a safe distance by using the iron sand to finish her.
Another ridiculus part in this fight is when Chiyo and Sakura were dodging all those senbon for quite a bit

And his sudden noticeble emotion for his parent puppets
The very same puppets he trashed an left in Suna

 

[yuan of cruxis]

Kakazu vs Naruto is another fight

 

[zombiejesus]

im gonna go yes and no naruto was about to go kyubi sage mode and we dont know what that would do plus he did rebound shinra on nagato he was pretty wipped agter that battle and last but not least plot no jutsu is a mother ****er man lol

 

[Rash4life]

Thanks for dis thread,it actually xcellent.star 5.

 

[Lightning Release]

SM Naruto > Pain. Guess who's still alive, Naruto. Who won the fight? Naruto!

 

[ImNoOne]

I wanted to thank the post but for some reason I can't. But I +repped you.

With that said, there is plot no jutso, there is no way around this fact.

 

[Itachi64]

+rep

 

[Fonkyomom]

Although what you say makes sense, but theres no denying certain things such as who couldve won for a reason

Like Neji vs Naruto- As much perception an genuis Neji maybe. He not only felt for a sneak attack that Naruto did throughout the battle, but he somehow couldnt move after 1 hit

They never explain that either

Sasori vs Chiyo and Sakura
Even though Chiyo was a very powerful opponent, and a great match-up for Sasori

That doesnt explain why someone as smart as him in his field of fighting decided to do a close range attack on Sakura with the 3rd Kazekage puppet, when he thought she was poisoned. When he couldve just been at a safe distance by using the iron sand to finish her.
Another ridiculus part in this fight is when Chiyo and Sakura were dodging all those senbon for quite a bit

And his sudden noticeble emotion for his parent puppets
The very same puppets he trashed an left in Suna

most sensible post next to the first one +rep

 

[MissShakra]

awesome thread! im surprised this is a topic even still debated amongst people...i thought it was easy to see why things went the way they did and why its relevant to the story lol

 

[DESTRUCTO]

I agree with you, I don't really care for the phrase "plot no jutsu" either. The entire story is plot. If any of you have ever written a story before, you would know that anything and everything in the realm is at your disposal. You're the creator. If Kishi wants Neji to be knocked out in one punch, then he is. If he wants Nagato to sacrifice himself at the end, then that's what's going to happen. Your opinions on who is stronger and who should have really won are simply that, it is your OPINION. The story will always remain the same, your opinion will never change that.

I also agree that by saying that, it does under mind the realization and final change of Nagato. That Naruto, when faced with the opportunity for revenge, chose the path of peace by sparing Nagato, unlike his counter part Sasuke. It is a grand moment in the manga and one of my favorite parts of the whole story. I get a little teary every time I read it. So to say "oh that was just because of the plot" is ridiculous, because the entirety of the story is because of plot. Otherwise people wouldn't like reading if it was all over the place and followed the randomness that is real life. What God Of Wind is trying to get at is, as much fun as debating is, the lot of you are looking to deeply into the manga in the wrong way. So bent on "facts" that you're missing the deep social and spiritual commentary in the story. It's not that Naruto won because of plot, it's that that fight was a very important part in the story and was crucial in his personal development in finding and staying true to his ninja way. So just sit back and enjoy the story.

 

[MickNerks]

+ rep, an great job on the thread. I left NB cause i got tired of alot of the usely threads. This was very well thought out and makes alot of since. And it doesnt bash any characters. Great Job!!!

 

[The God of Wind]

Yes yes all that getting the message across is nice and all but it doesn't change the fact that plot no jutsu exists. And the bold that I've highlighted just goes to show that even you, albeit unconsciously, admit that there is such a thing. That main characters will overcome the villains despite the logic and understanding. And yet you have created this thread to try and say otherwise in the Naruto vs Pain incident. :sy:

Also, I have no idea why you would even try to compare DBZ and Naruto because its irrelevant and totally different universe.

If you dont see a connection between DBZ and Naruto, then you and I are two completely different people.

Narutos victory over Pains body and soul is fully logical and within my understanding, there was logic in every step of the fight. Even Naruto's new found control after meeting Yondaime is logical.