Lets get something straight about Naruto vs Pain!

[Sephy100]

I noticed that you only pick and choose what you show us about talk no jutsu. You only showed us the end page of when Nagato said that he would believe in Naruto but you should show us the whole chapter of his explanation and about pervy sage and all that goodness. How can someone believe in another person without talking to them? I'm sorry but the battle only ended because of talk no jutsu(it wasn't one-sided but it still was talk no jutsu none the less).

 

[SandCoffinGara]

Your trying to justify the phrase "talk no jutsu","Plot no Jutsu" in the naruto vs pain fight....are you simply forgetting Nagato could still use the paths and defeat naruto without the puppets?To my knowledge naruto wouldn't have thought that he nagato himself could use the powers while thinking it was just the puppets specialty.In either way the fight could of been won by naruto via"Plot no jutsu" or won by nagato.Please understand meaning of the phrase when it is implied to the subject like i just did.

I disagree that Pain was in any position to fight. He was obviously trying to defeat Naruto when he came into the hideout. He attempts to skewer him, but his chakra reserves were so low Naruto overpowered the manipulation by shear force of will. If he could have used the shinra tensei or any of his other abilities he would have, before Naruto got close simply because it was his intention to kill Naruto before they talked. He simply did not have the chakra left to fight. Konan expresses many times how close to death Nagato was. She encouraged him not to used abilities because of the amount of chakra they used and the strained it put on his body. After using up so much chakra manipulating the final Pain's abilities, Nagato was left close to death. You could see that in Konan's actions and words alone.

Now onto the crap about people are like yea well he ahd enough chakra left to revive and entire village. First of all he did not raise and entire village Tsunade saved most of them from the brink of death. Nagato raised several dozen people, but not hundreds or even thousands, like most of the people on here seem to indicate. Not to mention that doing this killed Nagato. Doing this ability did not only drain the rest of what little chakra he had, but it also drained his life force and killed him. The ability he used must have a similar effect to Chiyo's ressurection technique where is kills the user. This is why he did not use it for Tobi as was the intention of Tobi. So, my conclusion is that any high level chakra ability would have killed him. He was coughing up blood for the love of god. So people act like the guy was still rearing to go at full strength. That maybe he could have pulled himself out of that chair walked over smacked Naruto then performed any of his path's abilities. Simply not true. Nagato's intention was to kill Naruto when he entered the tree, and if he could have done it the moment he entered he would have struck him down.

I too hate the term Talk no Jutsu. The plot did not kill Nagato, Nagato was defeated by Naruto from beginning to end. He may have used the fox chakra to break free, but hello the 2 main characters of the entire manga were "given" something. Nagato doesn't get off without this either. His eyes were implanted as OP points out. His defeat of the final Pain is no more upheld than Nagato's ability to destroy the entire village with his eyes. Talk no Jutsu is simply put the nothing but the writer trying to progress the story. With out it this would be just another check out how my move is kooler than your move story. My shuriken is bigger than your shuriken bull crap. Enjoy the story for what it is. Nagato is bettered by Naruto. If the fight happened again right now Naruto would not only win again, but he would win big.

 

[TenzaZangetsu]

That's the exact moment he could of killed naruto.

:ice: I agree with you so much I could cry!, Naruto is not able to, nor has he ever been able to defeat Nagato-Pain, remember there was a round two with Nagato as an edo, and Naruto was almost able to do nothing... had to be saved by Itachi!

 

[Vin Thora]

WTF are you talking about??:flaw:

All people are saying is that Naruto should NEVER have defeated the Paths as they were well out of his league (SM Naruto<<<<<6 Paths of Pain); people are talking purely from a matchup perspective, not the overall plot. Essentially, people are saying that the 6 Paths of Pain would SLAUGHTER SM Naruto if they were to face off outside the boundaries of the manga (plot).:sy:

For example, we should be seeing BM Naruto beat Tobi, which is clearly plot, seeing as Tobi (and any Rinnegan user) is above and beyond Naruto, and almost every other character.

Furthermore, the actual term for "plot no jutsu" is DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!:sy:

 

[Skylar Knight]

I like your effort and time you have used on the thread And I kind of agree ... + Rep for you

 

[Hipster Madara]

Pain could have killed Naruto several times if he felt like it.

 

[Kira was Righteous]

Im not even going to post links

Pain could have killed Naruto 3 times in that fight if he was trying to kill him and would of he had help two times

Then Nagato would of owned SM Naruto easy difficulty did you see what he did to KM Naruto crippled and controlled? So yeah stop being a naruto fanboy and know pain

Do you hate me?

 

[9th Raikage]

Good job on this thread. I think people dont appreciate Naruto simply bc he is the main character. Also I think Kishi could make Naruto more appealing by giving him more techniques and abilities. The rasengan is over used as are shadow clones and Naruto's various "modes". I think if Naruto becomes a slightly more serious character at least when it comes to his understanding of jutsu people will respect him more.

See this thread for elaboration.

You must be registered for see links

 

[GhastlyTitan]

Well I think the problem is that, we are just using the information given to decide. Based on databooks, and skills we can assume that Pein/Nagato would win 90% of the time in an alone battle against Naruto. But somehow Naruto won. That is what people think is Plot No Jutsu. And I guess it makes sense because would you rather bet money on a horse with ten times more strength and speed then the other horses? Or the horse with a lot of ''heart''.

 

[Emp3Ror]

atlast a theory tht makes sense.....+rep man....just awsm

 

[Uniside]

It was a epic fight.
+rep for the thread. (Y)

 

[EYES OF ITACHI]

descent tread time N effort went into it so +rep

 

[FizzyDrink]

well thats where you and me are different, I dont perceive Naruto as just another story tied to plot like everyone or everything else.......

How do you perceive Naruto then? Because it certainly has plot. And each battle is affected by the circumstances that the plot designs for them.

When Sasuke fought Deidara, Deidara had Tobi's help to lay out mines for him.

When Naruto fought Pein...well, I've already listed all of those.

When Gaara and Lee fought Kimmimaro, Kimmimaro was sick.

When Sakura and Chiyo fought Sasori, they had antidotes, and it was 2 vs 1, and Sasori had a random change of heart at the end.

When Naruto fought Neji, 1 punch ended Neji, when he should have seen the attack coming via his Byakugan.

I could go on, but the fact is, the story created specific circumstances favorable to certain characters in their respective battles. I don't see how you can possibly deny that. THAT is what "plot no jutsu" is. Just because to you, Naruto is something more than a story or whatever, it doesn't mean that this doesn't apply. Please get off your high horse and realize that you have been proven wrong.

 

[~Puppet Master~]

Well, if Tendo's powers didn't return at the last second, Naruto would've taken
this easily. But they did, and Pain would've taken this easily if Hinata didn't
interfere, but she did. So I say it's a fair win.

 

[madali]

SM Naruto > Pain.

 

[The God of Wind]

How do you perceive Naruto then? Because it certainly has plot. And each battle is affected by the circumstances that the plot designs for them.

When Sasuke fought Deidara, Deidara had Tobi's help to lay out mines for him.

When Naruto fought Pein...well, I've already listed all of those.

When Gaara and Lee fought Kimmimaro, Kimmimaro was sick.

When Sakura and Chiyo fought Sasori, they had antidotes, and it was 2 vs 1, and Sasori had a random change of heart at the end.

When Naruto fought Neji, 1 punch ended Neji, when he should have seen the attack coming via his Byakugan.

I could go on, but the fact is, the story created specific circumstances favorable to certain characters in their respective battles. I don't see how you can possibly deny that. THAT is what "plot no jutsu" is. Just because to you, Naruto is something more than a story or whatever, it doesn't mean that this doesn't apply. Please get off your high horse and realize that you have been proven wrong.

Let me take one of your examples: Sakura made the antidote because Sasori was too proud of his poison to kill Kankuro. Chiyo ended up going cuz she hadnt seen her grandson in over 20 years. Sasori didnt have some random change of heart because of "plot", its statements like that take credibility away from the manga and Kishis ability to write it. The story flows perfectly explaining every detail along the way, and yet people dont think its fair cuz thier fanboys.
I want to explain Sasori's "random" change of heart.......You just met your grandmother after 20 years. Can you imagine the amount of nostalgia generating from the meeting, let alone the fight. Especially if that person taught you everthing you know.
Plot didnt make Sasori give up, in a way Sasori did the same thing Nagato did, he acknowledged Sakuras strength, and deemed them both(chiyo n sakura) as opponents worthy enough to get killed by.
Why didnt Sasori move? The answer is comprehensive only if you forego this element of plot. As a child he would make his Father and Mothers puppets hug him everyday. When Chiyo made that last attack, all Sasori saw were his Father and Mother coming at him for an embrace, and that is why he COULDNT move, he froze!
I am old enough to understand these sentiments and they play a big part in a fight if it is Grandmother vs Grandson, as they should. That is how I watch Naruto.

 

[Naruto king of Shinobi]

Naruto won that fight fair and square. He defeated most paths by just sage mode. Yea the kyuubi helped turn the tides after sage mode ran out. But people can't say using the kyuubis power is cheap, because then I could say nagato using the rinnegan is cheap, since he was given the rinnegan. They both were given power-up's, and Naruto triumped in the end.

 

[Kira was Righteous]

Naruto won that fight fair and square. He defeated most paths by just sage mode. Yea the kyuubi helped turn the tides after sage mode ran out. But people can't say using the kyuubis power is cheap, because then I could say nagato using the rinnegan is cheap, since he was given the rinnegan. They both were given power-up's, and Naruto triumped in the end.

Yeah ill give you that he defeated all paths apart from Deva and Preta although he had help and information+ Nagato was tired from fighting Konoha thats why deva didnt just own him from the beginning

Deva captured Naruto then held with preta-Nagato could have killed him
Deva Captured Naruto and pinned him down-Could have killed him Hinata saved him
Deva Captured the Kyubii in a Chibaku Tensei-Naruto would have died Minato saved his soul and got him out of the Mini moon

Look at my avatar for the other time Nagato owned him and he was crippled and brain dead

 

[Phoenix110]

I don't know what you people are arguing about this thread is the most sensible thread on naruto vs pain rep

 

[Maxmoefoe]

Naruto beat pain...fair and square