Clearing up Yata Misconceptions

[Gerkak]

Retard Hater spotted. The scan said all ninjutsu not senjutsu. Learn to read, retard.
Therefore, we have to accept that Yata's defence hold up to what it says it does considering Omnyoudon said **** all to amaterasu-rasengan, susano'o, ET, etc, but not to what it didn't say - senjutsu.

Who called you a retard. You could have corrected me and be done with you Idiot. It's people like you who ruin narutobase.

 

[Mellanoma]

Everything has a limit.

As the real Yata no Kagami was burned in a fire and as Itachi himself, the holder of the mirror stated, everything has a weakness and that weakness could not be the type of attack(s) but the power of said attacks.

he stated every jutsu has a weakness.... Kamui is a jutsu Yata mirror is a godly spiritual entity

Susanoo and it's weapons are made up of chakra. Only an Itachi fan would attempt to argue otherwise. When it states the Yata mirror is "spiritual" with no physical form, it means it's a jutsu. Jutsu don't exist the same way a physical weapon would.

Why didn't Nagato auto absorb Totsuka if it's a chakra weapon? That entire fight he automatically absorbed chakra yet could not absorb totsuka. Answer? Totsuka is a spiritual weapon not chakra

you don't know it as it was never stated so it is just assumption.

My assumption has at least some theory that Juubi as begining of chakra is source of everything, that back up my opinion that Yata Mirror chakra as well...

So sorry but until Kishi prove me wrong...

You can't deny possibility of me being right

If Yata or Totsuka were chakra Nagato would have absorbed it since he had a Preta Path barrier activated

My point is that there are countless other databook entries that also use absolute terms, and you giving the Yata Mirror priority over other techniques is pure and uncensored bias at its finest.

If Raikiri cuts through "anything," then that would include Yata Mirror as well, since it is within the the Narutoverse and thus part of what defines "anything." If Chou Odama Rasengan swallows "everything," it would include the Yata Mirror as well, since it is part of that "everything."

Nope.. Yata states all "loses it's meaning" when put up against Yata mirror... so your mistaken

"yata isnt a jutsu therefore it is invincible"

everything has a downside

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Yata downside is Itachi not willing to go all out and use it effectively

 

[Owarij]

I know it's a hyperbole.
Most "Breaks all defenses" "Blocks all attacks" "No possible defense" are hyperboles.

I was simply using One hyperbole argument (kamui) to counter other (Yata). Since Kamui's Entry directly counters Yata's that kind of gives me an indication of how Trust worthy Yata's entry actually is.







Why would if be "Forced" to materialize in front of it?.

Kakashi simply surrounds the object he wants to warp with barriers (no contact needed at all) and the space in between the barriers gets warped. There is no contact between the jutsu and the shield.

how can you so clearly state all of Yata's article are hyperbole? , there are obvious ones such as "any attack, even in the hands of a god " , The rest? seems like a simple description of the capabilities of the weapon...

Making the claim that just because there are hyperboles in the manga or incorrect statements mean that everything else in the manga that even remotely looks too powerful is a logical fallacy and a falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus type of thinking
The thing is, Yata Mirror is spiritual, its an astral entity...

Kamui warps on the physical plane of existence....Do you agree? I see noone arguing that if Minato summoned the Shiki Fujin , that kakashi would be able to send it away... why? Both shiki fujin and yata mirror are spiritual entities as stated in the databook manga... Yata simply can CHANGE its properties based on the attack incoming.. if it needs to become physical it can...

What do we know about Kamui? one KNOWN counter for it is another barrier of equal size

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Now by the definition of yatamirror, which in no way is a hyperbole... as the scan given isn't exaggerating any claim.. its saying that yata defends by changing the properties of itself... Why wouldn't the shield be able to become the very same attack and thus cancel it out? (Considering it specifically states it can alter every one of its properties and attributes..(size, nature, element etc)

Idk if its understood that the mirror and sword are not any simple jutsu, or average earthly item... it's explicitly stated that its Magic

What exactly is the hyperbole in Yata cancelling it out with itself? Just as it would probably repel an elemental attack with either the same element or its signature weakness..

As for the argument that Kamui isn't an attack.. I've debated this already..
What all or most the MS jutsu have in common is that they use chakra, a build op of chakra that is either propelled at the enemy, or formed into something that is then propelled at the enemy

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And Kamui?

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Kamui works by creating a barrier at a specific location that sucks in anything in the barrier location... the size and shape of the barrier is dependent on how much chakra the user puts in in

Do you think the chakra magically appears where the user wants? We know that you can't magically make chakra appear somewhere.. it has to move.. even with genjutsu, you PROPEL chakra to the person's brain.. Minato stated he can only teleport something that him or his chakra is touching... if he could randomly and instantly send his chakra to an area then use his jutsu, then he would be the most broken character in the manga.. now why do you think kakashi can do that? Why did he have to focus so hard on the moving Deidara, and still happen to miss a few?

Susanoo and it's weapons are made up of chakra. Only an Itachi fan would attempt to argue otherwise. When it states the Yata mirror is "spiritual" with no physical form, it means it's a jutsu. Jutsu don't exist the same way a physical weapon would.

So ..to explicate, you're saying that Yata mirror and of course its counter part the sword of Totsuka , are Jutsu. Correct?

 

[naruttebayo]

Yata's downside is Itachi

i agree with that

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you are always right ..

 

[Black Wolf]

Nope.. Yata states all "loses it's meaning" when put up against Yata mirror... so your mistaken

Nope. Raikiri states that it can cut through anything it comes into contact with, so you are mistaken.

Nope. Chou Odama Rasengan states that it can swallow everything it comes into contact with, so you are mistaken.

Nope. Kamui states that there is no possible defense against it, so, once again, you are mistaken.

Regurgitating the same quote over and over again will change nothing. Here are the hard facts - nearly every databook entry's goal is to hype the jutsu it is describing. To do that, absolute / definitive terms like "everything" and "anything" are thrown around all the time. You are clearly biased if you are giving the Yata Mirror's databook entry precedence over all of these other jutsu, which have comparable, if not superior, hyperbolic statements fueling them.

 

[Avinash012]

Kumui > Totsuka

Kumui > Yata......

 

[P3ĮÑ]

bold makes no ****ing sense and is just a desperate attempt at sounding correct. Why the hell would you cross worlds with difference rules, logic, and methods.

So u believe itachi's claim then? Just cause itachi said only a ms user can beat me sounds like a no limit fallacy

The only 'fight' we saw with itachi and nagato, itachi sealed him in totsuka.

So ur implying if Nagato fought itachi alone he can defeat him? We already saw how itachi needed bee and naruto's help to break the CT ....if he's alone it's gonna be another story and not to mention Kabuto was controlling him..

The only 'fight' we saw with itachi and naruto, naruto was always outclassed

Can he defeat BM naruto? a guy who causally smacked mountain busting bijuu damas away. Against KCM maybe, but against BM naruto? I don't think itachi can defeat him, Especially a non Edo itach who can sustain susanoo for only a limited time.

Hashirama and itachi's never fought

That's what I'm saying, no limits fallacy! just cause itachi said only someone with MS can defeat him ..in this argument a person holds Itachi's statement to be absolute truth, ignoring the possibility that Itachi has no knowledge of certain enemies, or never expected to encounter them. The same can be said of Kishimoto: He never intended for his characters to be pitted in battle against characters from other works of fiction, so therefore statements like this do not hold true to other works of fiction necessarily. Furthermore, there is the possibility that Itachi was lying, bluffing, misinformed, or deluded.

Konan also stating pain to be invincible and undefeatable and Hiruzen was shinobi no Kami lol, while simply they aren't, and oro also stating that sword is kusangi can cut through almost anything, while it failed to cut through four tailed naruto and the Same about raikiri...its very outdated..to a very far extent. So it can't be quantified. ESpecially the databook which is seriously outdated. And some statements don't seem valid accroding to present time of naruto.

And Even so, itachi can't defeat hashi if u pit him against him ..

At that time, it was pretty much manga fact that only an uchiha was beating itachi - pain is debateable, and so is obito considering he's an uchiha.

The same could be said about the data books, especially the Ame statemnt where it says NO jutsu can escape its fury, so therefore it's invincible lol....and u can't counter kamui no matter what, they're outdated in simple meanings. So we can't completely quantify. Most of the time they're hyperboles and Yata mostly being fallacy of accident and arguments of belief. Usually the fanboys claim just cause it can block everything he can win any fight. While actually databook claims being the only support, we can't really conclude that it can block ANYTHING, seeing as how the databook states the same for Ame and kamui, seeing how outdated the data book is...and the many other hyperboles it states.

Because it's not blocking any of them, it's repelling them all. What would those tbb's do to yata when they're exploding in a bush far far away?

the JUBBI's TBB was calc'd at being to island level, to small country level, even if they explode in a bush ...it's harsh lol..can Yata counter a CT that's moon sized and drop it on him lol....it's hard to consider, but can it? It can counter anything! And also how does it block kamui and Ame? Th databook also applies, against these jutsu's no defence is possible ..

 

[theacknowledgedone]

I'm just saying if Kamui was that powerful wouldn't it be considered a sacred treasure? haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa guess not

If someone can explain to me how its possible to make something appear behind a mirror I'd love to be informed. You can't beat your own reflection, that sh1t is impossible

 

[Exaar]

Kamui works by creating a barrier at a specific location that sucks in anything in the barrier location... the size and shape of the barrier is dependent on how much chakra the user puts in in

Do you think the chakra magically appears where the user wants? We know that you can't magically make chakra appear somewhere.. it has to move.. even with genjutsu, you PROPEL chakra to the person's brain.. Minato stated he can only teleport something that him or his chakra is touching... if he could randomly and instantly send his chakra to an area then use his jutsu, then he would be the most broken character in the manga.. now why do you think kakashi can do that? Why did he have to focus so hard on the moving Deidara, and still happen to miss a few?

Then allow me to ask this. What are your views on Amaterasu.

As you said it requires a build up of chakra, Then it's released, Some say it travels some say it Appears where the user is focused.

Lets say it does indeed "Appear where the user is focused", Then whats stopping Kakashi doing the same but with Kumai

 

[BlinkST]

Why didn't Nagato auto absorb Totsuka if it's a chakra weapon?

Same reason he didn't use any other jutsu. The sword's sealing properties stopped him from activating his jutsu, as opposed to actually attempting something and failing to be successful. That was the basic reason why Kabuto lost his control. Only an Itachi fan would attempt to argue that the Susanoo itself is made up of chakra, but it's weapons aren't.

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A "spirit weapon" is simply a non-existent weapon made up of chakra that stems from the Susanoo; they are jutsu.

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But oh, right. Itachi just happens to have this special brand of Susanoo that doesn't use chakra weapons, right?

 

[Smd]

I hate how people selectively read, Yata renders all jutsu ineffective.

Kamui is a jutsu.

What's so hard to understand

 

[AGoodBoy]

Who called you a retard. You could have corrected me and be done with you Idiot. It's people like you who ruin narutobase.

Good point, Well made.

Nope. Raikiri states that it can cut through anything it comes into contact with, so you are mistaken.

Nope. Chou Odama Rasengan states that it can swallow everything it comes into contact with, so you are mistaken.

Nope. Kamui states that there is no possible defense against it, so, once again, you are mistaken.

Regurgitating the same quote over and over again will change nothing. Here are the hard facts - nearly every databook entry's goal is to hype the jutsu it is describing. To do that, absolute / definitive terms like "everything" and "anything" are thrown around all the time. You are clearly biased if you are giving the Yata Mirror's databook entry precedence over all of these other jutsu, which have comparable, if not superior, hyperbolic statements fueling them.

"Anything it comes into contact with" That's where the problem arises.

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. Therefore, raikiri wouldn't cut yata, Rasengan wouldn't swallow yata, when they're not coming into contact with it.

As to your last Paragraph, Yata's hype is Manga fact, not DB fact. All those other things don't have that manga fact like yata, therefore throwing the hyperboles from the DB to contradict manga fact is completely wrong.

So u believe itachi's claim then? Just cause itachi said only a ms user can beat me sounds like a no limit fallacy
That claim is clearly self-hype, but using that as your defence is simply ignorant. Furthermore, uchiha was the #2 clan with senju no longer around. There was no one who could stand up to an elite MS uchiha at that point - possibly not even a senju as senju mostly fought tomoe-less/3 tomoe uchiha. The only uchiha with MS were izuna and madara, and they were only fightable by the strongest senju. You bringing up Hashirama(past), BM naruto(future), nagato(Unknown god), does not debunk his self-hype in the slightest. At that point, there was no one who couuld stand up to itachi, therefore, that self-hype was manga fact. Itachi isn't a psychic nor do we have any proof that someone like hashirama/BM naruto could stand up to Tsukuyomi. Most likely they'd be injured during that 1 second of 3 day torture, but their strong bodies wouldn't cause them to fall to their knees.



So ur implying if Nagato fought itachi alone he can defeat him? We already saw how itachi needed bee and naruto's help to break the CT ....if he's alone it's gonna be another story and not to mention Kabuto was controlling him..
I'm implying neither of us know the outcome. We've never seen nagato or itachi go all out, who am i to say who'd win? Nothing suggests Itachi needed Bee and naruto seeing as Bee could toss 4 TBB in a short interval and therefore break CT of his own - 4 TBB > Tbb + Rasenshuriken + yasaka. Or, Naruto could toss a chou Rasenshuriken to possibly solo the core. Or, Itachi could toss more than 1 yasaka magatama. The only manga fact is that Itachi previously spoke to naruto about failing because he went at everything alone and team work is necessary, and therefore he was trying to re-iterate this through the use of team work. CT doesn't need 3 people to destroy( Killer bee example).



Can he defeat BM naruto? a guy who causally smacked mountain busting bijuu damas away. Against KCM maybe, but against BM naruto? I don't think itachi can defeat him, Especially a non Edo itach who can sustain susanoo for only a limited time.
Have you ever seen itachi go all out? For that matter, There's never been an occasion where itachi didn't have Naruto in a genjutsu( bar KCM, seeing as bee took over naruto's role as genjutsu victim). Naruto throwing Mountain busting bijuu dama doesn't tell us much of how he's breaking a tsukuyomi if it were to hit him. I'm sure naruto/Bee wouldn't be breaking infinite tsukuyomi if it were activated.



That's what I'm saying, no limits fallacy! just cause itachi said only someone with MS can defeat him ..in this argument a person holds Itachi's statement to be absolute truth, ignoring the possibility that Itachi has no knowledge of certain enemies, or never expected to encounter them. The same can be said of Kishimoto: He never intended for his characters to be pitted in battle against characters from other works of fiction, so therefore statements like this do not hold true to other works of fiction necessarily. Furthermore, there is the possibility that Itachi was lying, bluffing, misinformed, or deluded.
No one's saying that's not self-hype. But using that to try debunk yata is completely foolish. At best we can assume itachi said that to intimidate/bluff the 3 opponents standing infront of him so he could escape easier without injuring them. Whereas, when Madara(black zetsu) made that claim, there was no one to intimidate, bluff, or lie to. Kishimoto's only goal was to inform us of wtf was going on at that point in time.
Idk what characters from other works of fiction have to do with this... Wtf does other works of fiction have to do with his manga...? His manga uses ninja's and chakra, barely any other manga use that.

Konan also stating pain to be invincible and undefeatable and Hiruzen was shinobi no Kami lol, while simply they aren't...it's outdated..to a very far extent. So it can't be quantified. ESpecially the databook which is seriously outdated. And some statements don't seem valid accroding to present time of naruto.
Pain is invincible and undefeatable...? Because SM Naruto and his plot shield did it, it's no longer manga fact? What's naruto's defence to the soul-sucking gedo dragon? He has none. Rinnegan took down the juubi, but it can't take down naruto/other ninja? :| The only person beating rinnegan is rinnegan. Stop bringing up the databook, i never even mentioned it, i'm going along with manga fact. Kishimoto rarely contradicts mangafact if you actually study it properly - only contradiction I know of is that orochimaru apparently said kusanagi pierces everything(i don't know when he said this) but it didn't pierce 4t naruto. In any case, hiruzen was called that by some fodder who never left konoha, not even a credible source. Also, Hiruzen hasn't shown us his full capabilities, so saying he isn't god of shinobi( because of lack of screen time) is wrong. He was stated to know every jutsu in konoha, be the strongest kage of his time and what not, that'd make him pretty godly tbh.

And Even so, itachi can't defeat hashi if u pit him against him ..
As far as we know.... I don't even want to argue it because I think hashirama > Itachi. The point being, we've never seen them fight, nor have we seen itachi go full out. He's always held back throughout the manga. The closest we have to itachi's capabilities is his feat of no-diff stomping a sanin(orochimaru), and an akatsuki(deidara). That pretty much puts him high up in the food chain even above the sanin and some akatsuki members.



The same could be said about the data books, especially the Ame statemnt where it says NO jutsu can escape its fury, so therefore it's invincible lol....and u can't counter kamui no matter what, they're outdated in simple meanings. So we can't quantify to a valid extent. Most of the time they're hyperboles and Yata mostly being fallacy of accident and arguments of belief. Usually the fanboys claim just cause it can block everything he can win any fight. While actually databook claims being the only support, we can't really conclude that it can block ANYTHING, seeing how outdated the data book is...and the other hyperboles it states..
Databook, databook, databook. That's all i'm hearing. This wasn't stated in the manga therefore it's not important. Kamui being escaped is manga fact so That databook nonsense is debunked. "A shield that reflects any attack", that's manga fact backed up by databook.

Woah, woah, woah, my goal isn't to state itachi defeats anyone. That's completely baseless and false. My goal is to state that yata does what it states it does. Juubi dama? Deflected. Juubi tail? Deflected. Obito's omnyouton orbs? Deflected/they break yata, i'm not sure. Because itachi can do that doesn't mean he can;
1) Even touch these people
2) Out last these people

Itachi can only hold up a susano'o carrying Yata for a few minutes, therefore, even though he could possibly defend himself from shishusenju, juubi laser, PS, meteors, Etc. He'd still lose the fight as he'd not be able to get close enough to these opponents to harm them, nor can he hold up that susano'o long enough to keep deflecting these attacks. Don't even bring up Totsuka, because i don't even believe that can pierce anything, all that says is it seals anything it pierces.



the JUBBI's TBB was calc'd at being to island level, to small country level, even if they explode in a bush ...it's harsh lol..can Yata counter a CT that's moon sized and drop it on him lol....it's hard to consider, but can it? It can counter anything! And also how does it block kamui and Ame? against these jutsu's no defence is possible ..
Yata deflected explosion from multiply kunai. Juubi-Dama exploding far off and then being hit by the force of the explosion from a distance probably won't even break a susano'o let alone debunk yata.
Oonoki+gaara held up a meteor. That meteor is pushed over to the side and all the debris flies all around yata.
It blocks obito's kamui because obito can't cross yata seeing as it'd push him away; I'm not too sure about kakashi's but Kamui is a jutsu, it's possible it's blocked too.
Idk what's Ame - if that's Raikiri then it's reflected by the fact that the user(kakashi) would be reflected away, therefore it wouldn't really be hitting yata anyway.

I responding with bolds

 

[Owarij]

Then allow me to ask this. What are your views on Amaterasu.

As you said it requires a build up of chakra, Then it's released, Some say it travels some say it Appears where the user is focused.

Lets say it does indeed "Appear where the user is focused", Then whats stopping Kakashi doing the same but with Kumai

Amaterasu propels, extremely fast, Build up chakra in your eye, the jutsu is invoked, The flames are released and go to the focused point

That much has been shown since sasuke vs bee, and with Sasuke using amaterasu on obito in recent chapters

 

[Blaze Release]

@Blinkst ill have to disagree with the weapons being made of chakra.

First is the Itachi scenario.
Itachi has seen naruto's and bee's technique gets absorbed. It is highly unlikely that he would attempt to aim a chakra based attack at nagato after what he has seen.

Secondly Itachi's susano does have its own chakra based weapons. These are either the 1 tomoe or 3 tomoe yasakas magatamas and the

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he used to clear kimimaro's bones [

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].

We have seen sasuke with a sword

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An arrow and a bow which he also uses it as a makeshift shield, but its a bow.

They were never part of Itachi's susano as they clearly existed before him. Going by orochimaru's lust for those weapons and the portion of madara's will giving background knowledge.

Likewise they have their own description in the databook under the heading of dictionary. Further showing that these weapons are not actual tools of susano

 

[AGoodBoy]

Same reason he didn't use any other jutsu. The sword's sealing properties stopped him from activating his jutsu, as opposed to actually attempting something and failing to be successful. That was the basic reason why Kabuto lost his control. Only an Itachi fan would attempt to argue that the Susanoo itself is made up of chakra, but it's weapons aren't.

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A "spirit weapon" is simply a non-existent weapon made up of chakra that stems from the Susanoo; they are jutsu.

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But oh, right. Itachi just happens to have this special brand of Susanoo that doesn't use chakra weapons, right?

So, orochimaru searched for a jutsu? A jutsu had it's blade enchanted with sealing abilities? Totsuka is simply a sword with no form just like kusanagi. If not for the enchantment on it's blade, it'd just cut and butcher like kusanagi. Is kusanagi a jutsu too?

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[Black Wolf]

"Anything it comes into contact with" That's where the problem arises.

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. Therefore, raikiri wouldn't cut yata, Rasengan wouldn't swallow yata, when they're not coming into contact with it.

To be repelled from something, you'd have to come into contact with it in the first place. You get repelled after coming in contact with it. Thus if we are to take Raikiri / Rasengan's definitions to heart, the Yata Mirror would be swallowed and chopped in half upon impact before repelling the person using them.

As to your last Paragraph, Yata's hype is Manga fact, not DB fact. All those other things don't have that manga fact like yata, therefore throwing the hyperboles from the DB to contradict manga fact is completely wrong.

The only manga facts we have is that it resisted kunai rigged to explode and a sword. That is nothing that a standard Doton wall hasn't been able to do, given it took a bunch of massive Kamui propelled shuriken and Suiton blasts from a proclaimed Suiton master. Unless you want to go around stating how unbreakable a Doton wall is based on that, I'm not sure that will get you very far.

That being said, I'm sure the Yata Mirror is much more resistant than a Doton wall. However, the notion that it is impenetrable / invincible to any technique is ridiculous when all it has is sub-par feats and what is clearly a hyperbolic description that is shared by numerous other jutsu.

 

[Owarij]

Blink, are you saying those weapons are jutsu manifested by susanno, or weapons that can be manifested by anyone with the knowhow? Because there is where I dont get your theory.. its been stated in the naruto dictionary databook 3 that the items existed a longggg time ago

 

[Mellanoma]

To be repelled from something, you'd have to come into contact with it in the first place. You get repelled after coming in contact with it. Thus if we are to take Raikiri / Rasengan's definitions to heart, the Yata Mirror would be swallowed and chopped in half upon impact before repelling the person using them.



The only manga facts we have is that it resisted kunai rigged to explode and a sword. That is nothing that a standard Doton wall hasn't been able to do, given it took a bunch of massive Kamui propelled shuriken and Suiton blasts from a proclaimed Suiton master. Unless you want to go around stating how unbreakable a Doton wall is based on that, I'm not sure that will get you very far.

That being said, I'm sure the Yata Mirror is much more resistant than a Doton wall. However, the notion that it is impenetrable / invincible to any technique is ridiculous when all it has is sub-par feats and what is clearly a hyperbolic description that is shared by numerous other jutsu.

Yata mirror's fail safe is everything else "Lose it's meaning" I see you tend to ignore that every time I counter your statements

 

[Black Wolf]

Yata mirror's fail safe is everything else "Lose it's meaning" I see you tend to ignore that every time I counter your statements

I replied to every single one of your posts.

You're not countering anything and it isn't a fail safe at all. So what if everything else loses its meaning? How does that take precedence over attacks that cut through "anything" and swallow "everything"? Yata Mirror is a "thing" within the Narutoverse, and thus falls under the scope of "everything" and "anything."

At best, if we are to rely on their hyperbolic descriptions, we're dealing with a situation where an immovable object meets an unstoppable force. Thus, the only reason you are saying that the Yata Mirror nullifies it is due to favoritism. All the descriptions use absolute terms, just like the Yata Mirror's description.

 

[Mellanoma]

You're not countering anything and it isn't a fail safe at all. So what if everything else loses its meaning? How does that take precedence over attacks that cut through "anything" and swallow "everything"? Yata Mirror is a "thing" within the Narutoverse, and thus falls under the scope of "everything" and "anything."

You don't understand the concept behind lose their meaning otherwise you would not ask a question...

You are right that every "thing" within narutoverse falls under everything and anything

All that is up against Yata loses it's meaning. So if Kamui being (unblockable) goes against Yata mirror then Kamui loses it's meaning of being Unblockable and thus is blocked.

As I said Databook and manga both state Yata is a spiritual/Godly/supernatural Item... In a sense you could say it's something not even relative to what the premise of jutsu, ninjutsu, senjutsu or chakra since the Databook says it's a Godly entitity. Another example as someone pointed out was the Shiki fuuijin.. it's a God.. Do you think Kamui can beat Shiki Fuuinijin?