Clearing up Yata Misconceptions

[HadouKage]

not needed.. clearly states All nin,material,astral, physical are blocked... and the fire from the explosion was lbocked U_U

@Kamui folks FYI Kamui is astral projection and thus is blocked

Databook contradicts itself.

Kamui couldn't be blocked
Ama was as hot as the sun


By that logic Raikiri pierces all

Until I see feats of Yata, then it stand on what it is.... DB hype and contradiction

 

[KCMNaruto]

bijuudama gg

 

[Black Wolf]

not my opinion just states it in the manga and databook...

Of course its your opinion, and a very blatantly biased one at that.

Mokuton has not killed any one yet.

It doesn't have to. We've seen it put holes through fortified earth walls, we've seen it hold down Bijuus, and we've seen it punch down Perfect Susano'o. We already know it is capable.

Amaterasu has not killed any one.

It doesn't have to. We've seen it bust through an anti-flame toad stomach in a mere moment, create thunderstorms with its heat, and incapacitate Bijuu which is more than enough to show us its potency. We already know it is capable.

Rasen Shuriken has not killed any one.

It doesn't have to. We've seen it push back and pressure the Kyuubi, create massive craters on the ground, and fully incapacitate an individual that was thought to be immortal. We already know it is capable.

Kamui has not killed any one it's been used on.

It doesn't have to. We've the speeds that it is used at capable of warping anyone but the fastest of individuals in this manga before they can possibly perceive it. We already know it is capable.

Overall, all of these jutsu you have listed have shown the necessary capabilities to kill someone, even though they haven't. They have the feats capable of tearing a human apart with ease. This is not at all comparable to the Yata Mirror, whose sole feat is insignificant and based on that sole feat, we cannot conclude that it is invincible.

Cause if you do understand my point then you would agree Yata > all

You'd need to be a lot more objective and armed with a much stronger argument with a much better foundation before you can go around claiming you are infallible.

So your argument is since something was not stated you can make up your own assumptions not off any actual evidence... GG sir

My argument is that hyperbole should not be blown out of proportion when we have very little reason to believe that the item in mind can come anywhere near to fulfilling the aforementioned hyperbole.

 

[xcoyote]

Btw with your logic of feats and panel display... Mokuton has not killed any one yet..Rasengan has not killed any one..Amaterasu has not killed any one.. Rasen Shuriken has not killed any one..Kamui has not killed any one it's been used on.

You can add Tsukuyomi in that list aswell,dont be biased

 

[Mellanoma]

Of course its your opinion, and a very blatantly biased one at that.



It doesn't have to. We've seen it put holes through fortified earth walls, we've seen it hold down Bijuus, and we've seen it punch down Perfect Susano'o. We already know it is capable.



It doesn't have to. We've seen it bust through an anti-flame toad stomach in a mere moment, create thunderstorms with its heat, and incapacitate Bijuu which is more than enough to show us its potency. We already know it is capable.



It doesn't have to. We've seen it push back and pressure the Kyuubi, create massive craters on the ground, and fully incapacitate an individual that was thought to be immortal. We already know it is capable.



It doesn't have to. We've the speeds that it is used at capable of warping anyone but the fastest of individuals in this manga before they can possibly perceive it. We already know it is capable.

Overall, all of these jutsu you have listed have shown the necessary capabilities to kill someone, even though they haven't. They have the feats capable of tearing a human apart with ease. This is not at all comparable to the Yata Mirror, whose sole feat is insignificant and based on that sole feat, we cannot conclude that it is invincible.



You'd need to be a lot more objective and armed with a much stronger argument with a much better foundation before you can go around claiming you are infallible.



My argument is that hyperbole should not be blown out of proportion when we have very little reason to believe that the item in mind can come anywhere near to fulfilling the aforementioned hyperbole.

'MY point is if Kishi really showed Yata mirror to it's full extent then what would be the point in having villains? Itachi would beat everyone if Yata is invincible(as the DB and manga state).. Feats are just nothing but children to wank over. If you follow the premise of his characters as well as go by the manga and databook you wouldn't have these arguments

You can add Tsukuyomi in that list aswell,dont be biased

haha... well Totsuka blitz gg > all others since it took out nagato XD

 

[BlinkST]

First is the Itachi scenario.
Itachi has seen naruto's and bee's technique gets absorbed. It is highly unlikely that he would attempt to aim a chakra based attack at nagato after what he has seen.

Didn't stop him from using Amaterasu, or chopping him with Susanoo.

They were never part of Itachi's susano as they clearly existed before him. Going by orochimaru's lust for those weapons and the portion of madara's will giving background knowledge.

Likewise they have their own description in the databook under the heading of dictionary. Further showing that these weapons are not actual tools of susano

Contradicting yourself there. The databook's description of Susano'o made it clear that those weapons are it's own power [and mere examples of 'spirit weapons', nor the only ones].

Again, contradicting yourself. Black Zetsu made it clear that these are jutsu of Itachi's eyes; Susano'o. No one was ever going to find them, because they do not exist in the same way the way the Susanoo does not exist. You cannot find a jutsu.

17
Zetsu: --OROCHIMARU SEARCHED FOR THAT BLADE ALL HIS LIFE-- // His eye abilities... and a jutsu of this level, too... Itachi really is incredible!

瞳力…それにこれだけの術…　やっぱイタチはすっげー強え！
Zetsu1: The power of his eyes, this jutsu... Itachi really is awfully strong!

 

[Black Wolf]

'MY point is if Kishi really showed Yata mirror to it's full extent then what would be the point in having villains? Itachi would beat everyone if Yata is invincible(as the DB and manga state).

If Kishimoto truly wanted to portray Itachi as the strongest individual in this manga, he had plenty of opportunity to do so against Kabuto and Nagato. Unfortunately, he required heavy assistance from Jinchuuriki and an equally skilled Mangekyo user to get the job done. He was not portrayed as invincible or unstoppable in the slightest.

It should tell you that if Kishimoto wanted to portray Itachi as god-on-earth, which you seem to believe, he would have done so. As we have clearly seen, while Itachi is easily among the strongest combatants in this manga, he is far from invincible, and Kishimoto has went out of his way to show that despite Itachi possessing the Yata Mirror.

Feats are just nothing but children to wank over. If you follow the premise of his characters as well as go by the manga and databook you wouldn't have these arguments

Following the premise of his characters and manga portrayal would make it painfully obvious that Itachi, and by extension, the Yata Mirror, are nowhere near invincible.

 

[Mellanoma]

If Kishimoto truly wanted to portray Itachi as the strongest individual in this manga, he had plenty of opportunity to do so against Kabuto and Nagato. Unfortunately, he required heavy assistance from Jinchuuriki and an equally skilled Mangekyo user to get the job done. He was not portrayed as invincible or unstoppable in the slightest.

It should tell you that if Kishimoto wanted to portray Itachi as god-on-earth, which you seem to believe, he would have done so. As we have clearly seen, while Itachi is easily among the strongest combatants in this manga, he is far from invincible, and Kishimoto has went out of his way to show that despite Itachi possessing the Yata Mirror.



Following the premise of his characters and manga portrayal would make it painfully obvious that Itachi, and by extension, the Yata Mirror, are nowhere near invincible.

Exactly... which is why yata and totsuka was not used in those fights...

it's pointless arguing with me.. I go off of manga facts and databook thus Yata mirror is absolute.. you go off of feats and feats alone which Manga and databook triumphs feats.. Otherwise filler and anime would be canon

 

[BlinkST]

it's pointless arguing with me.. I go off of manga facts and databook thus Yata mirror is absolute..

The Yata mirror is not absolute, nor is the Totsuka blade. This is kind of obvious, given the context of those comments.

 

[Blaze Release]

Didn't stop him from using Amaterasu, or chopping him with Susanoo.

Not really, Itachi used amaterasu before he saw naruto/bee's chakra get absorbed.
As for susano, yes its chakra however he blocked nagato's eyesight therefore stripping him of his awareness which owuld have led to susano being absorbed though the main targets were naruto/bee

Contradicting yourself there. The databook's description of Susano'o made it clear that those weapons are it's own power [and mere examples of 'spirit weapons', nor the only ones].



Again, contradicting yourself. Black Zetsu made it clear that these are jutsu of Itachi's eyes; Susano'o. No one was ever going to find them, because they do not exist in the same way the way the Susanoo does not exist. You cannot find a jutsu.

Not really. Id like to say those two weapons are unique to itachi and he was the only person who could access it, but again everything suggests that those weapons exists before itachi. All of susano's weapons that we know of, we know its due to susano.

Up till know we know of sasuke's arrow as susanoo's arrow or madara's sword as susanoo's sword.
However time an time again, neither of itachi's weapons has been described in this way, not by zetsu, orochimaru or itachi himseld who calls it by its true name;

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They actually have their own name and their own identify. The sword for example is the sword of totsuka which has been stated to be a variant of the kusanagi sword, most likely the one orochimaru possessed.

Its perfectly logical to assume, orochimaru who wielded one of the kusanangi sword also wanted the variant, the totsuka.

Two two weapons have never been stated to be just any ordinary susano chakra manifested weapons like susanoo's arrow and susano's sword. They have their own name and identity

 

[Black Wolf]

it's pointless arguing with me.. I go off of manga facts and databook thus Yata mirror is absolute.. you go off of feats and feats alone which Manga and databook triumphs feats.. Otherwise filler and anime would be canon

As I've said numerous times, if you take databook hyperbole to heart, you will end up with Raikiri and Chou Odama Rasengan being unstoppable jutsu. Feats hold a lot more weight than what are clearly exaggerated statements whose sole purpose is to make the jutsu they are describing sound interesting. You have a clear double standard if you are willing to accept the Yata Mirror's hype of being impenetrable while simultaneously cast away other jutsu's comparable (if not superior) hype of being unstoppable.

 

[AGoodBoy]

To be repelled from something, you'd have to come into contact with it in the first place. You get repelled after coming in contact with it. Thus if we are to take Raikiri / Rasengan's definitions to heart, the Yata Mirror would be swallowed and chopped in half upon impact before repelling the person using them.



The only manga facts we have is that it resisted kunai rigged to explode and a sword. That is nothing that a standard Doton wall hasn't been able to do, given it took a bunch of massive Kamui propelled shuriken and Suiton blasts from a proclaimed Suiton master. Unless you want to go around stating how unbreakable a Doton wall is based on that, I'm not sure that will get you very far.

That being said, I'm sure the Yata Mirror is much more resistant than a Doton wall. However, the notion that it is impenetrable / invincible to any technique is ridiculous when all it has is sub-par feats and what is clearly a hyperbolic description that is shared by numerous other jutsu.

I replied to every single one of your posts.

You're not countering anything and it isn't a fail safe at all. So what if everything else loses its meaning? How does that take precedence over attacks that cut through "anything" and swallow "everything"? Yata Mirror is a "thing" within the Narutoverse, and thus falls under the scope of "everything" and "anything."

At best, if we are to rely on their hyperbolic descriptions, we're dealing with a situation where an immovable object meets an unstoppable force. Thus, the only reason you are saying that the Yata Mirror nullifies it is due to favoritism. All the descriptions use absolute terms, just like the Yata Mirror's description.

You don't understand what "everything" and "anything" is. Both terms cover a wider and more definitive scope.



All that Raikiri goes against gets chopped. Thus, Yata Mirror being impenetrable means nothing because Raikiri cuts anything.

All that Chou Odama Rasengan goes against gets swallowed. Thus, Yata Mirror being invincible means nothing because Rasengan swallows everything.

The sole reason you are giving the Yata Mirror precedence over these jutsu is pure and obvious character bias, not logical reasoning, which this thread claims to be. You are giving the hyperbolic description of one item priority over the hyperbolic description of another jutsu that has equal, if not greater, absolute terms used within it.

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It probably works like that. Any previous definition of any other jutsu is completely negated. Raikiri can't cut obito's orbs. Rasengan can't break his orbs. Nor can they beat yata. If we accept obito's black orb Manga Fact > your DB Hype, then we have to accept Yata mirror Manga fact Hype > Your DB Hype.

Bring me manga fact hype please. I've never once quoted DB but that's what everyone's doing. "Repels any attack" is Yata's definition in the Manga, I need to see the cut anything/swallow anything in manga.

 

[BlinkST]

Not really. Id like to say those two weapons are unique to itachi and he was the only person who could access it, but again everything suggests that those weapons exists before itachi. All of susano's weapons that we know of, we know its due to susano.

No one is saying those are unique to Itachi. There is indeed indication that they existed before Itachi came into the picture, but it is also plainly stated that those weapons belong to the Susanoo, by both Zetsu and the databook. It was never claimed that they were something Itachi had found, because they are a jutsu stemming from the Susano'o, like everything else it does.

Up till know we know of sasuke's arrow as susanoo's arrow or madara's sword as susanoo's sword.
However time an time again, neither of itachi's weapons has been described in this way, not by zetsu, orochimaru or itachi himseld who calls it by its true name;

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All of Susano's weapons are for the most part nameless, since only two of them have become particularly famous.

Two two weapons have never been stated to be just any ordinary susano chakra manifested weapons like susanoo's arrow and susano's sword.

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Then you are being dishonest. It plainly states where the weapons come from, and you can even see that when Itachi uses Susanoo. These are no different from the Susanoo itself, which has no physical form.

 

[Black Wolf]

It probably works like that. Any previous definition of any other jutsu is completely negated.

That is purely your opinion / assumption, with nothing backing it.

Raikiri can't cut obito's orbs. Rasengan can't break his orbs. Nor can they beat yata.

Of course they can't. I hope you don't actually think that I believe Rasengan can break the Yata Mirror. Hell, we already have feats of Madara's standard Susano'o blocking Naruto's Rasengan. My point is to show that very little weight can be put in databook hyperbole. If the databook hyperbole were true, many techniques would be far more powerful.

If we accept obito's black orb Manga Fact > your DB Hype, then we have to accept Yata mirror Manga fact Hype > Your DB Hype.

Obito's black orb has the defensive feats that give us reason to believe it can block those jutsu. He has feats of laughing at a Futon Rasenshuriken + Amaterasu combo, so yeah, Raikiri and Rasengan shouldn't be phasing it.

Bring me manga fact hype please. I've never once quoted DB but that's what everyone's doing. "Repels any attack" is Yata's definition in the Manga, I need to see the cut anything/swallow anything in manga.

Sure. Raikiri, in the manga, is stated to be a

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.

 

[BlinkST]

Chidori blade is unblockable. Amaterasu is unavoidable.

 

[Blaze Release]

No one is saying those are unique to Itachi. There is indeed indication that they existed before Itachi came into the picture, but it is also plainly stated that those weapons belong to the Susanoo, by both Zetsu and the databook. It was never claimed that they were something Itachi had found, because they are a jutsu stemming from the Susano'o, like everything else it does.

So you are basically saying they did exist but rather another susano user had them before itachi therefore they existed before him, but also they are susano weapons. But if that is what you are saying, then why has it never been lumped along with the susano weapons we know of, but also it has clear hype and aura hinting that they are separate. That and also the fact that itachi says its the sword of totsuka and nothing about the sword of or his susano

If we were to assume what you are proposing which is that another susano user had them, the only susano user left that could possible had yielded them would have been izuna and that in itself i am not sure off, but also how a susano weapon could be a variant of the kusanagi which is oro's sword doesn't make sense to me.

Its true nothing states that itachi found them. However because it was stated that orochimaru was the one seeking them, majority assumed they were up for grabs

All of Susano's weapons are for the most part nameless, since only two of them have become particularly famous.

And that is what distinguishes those two weapons from the other susano weapons we know of which as you say have no name.

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Then you are being dishonest. It plainly states where the weapons come from, and you can even see that when Itachi uses Susanoo. These are no different from the Susanoo itself, which has no physical form.

Both weapons have time and time again been stated to have the ability to change its properties. Majority assume (and myself) that its ability to change its properties as it has no set/physical form is what allowed itachi to equip it with susano

 

[AGoodBoy]

That is purely your opinion / assumption, with nothing backing it.



Of course they can't. I hope you don't actually think that I believe Rasengan can break the Yata Mirror. Hell, we already have feats of Madara's standard Susano'o blocking Naruto's Rasengan. My point is to show that very little weight can be put in databook hyperbole. If the databook hyperbole were true, many techniques would be far more powerful.



Obito's black orb has the defensive feats that give us reason to believe it can block those jutsu. He has feats of laughing at a Futon Rasenshuriken + Amaterasu combo, so yeah, Raikiri and Rasengan shouldn't be phasing it.



Sure. Raikiri, in the manga, is stated to be a

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.

1st bold: Then it makes no sense why you'd bring up rasengan. If it can't swallow a susano'o you make little sense, honestly... I don't even see the point of bringing it in here...

2nd bold: it doesn't have feats to show us it can block raikiri. Stop trying to pull BS now. A susano'o stopped rasengan, and naruto even needed to get madara out of susano'o before tossing rasenshuriken. Amaterasu couldn't dissolve Ay's arm, therefore these 2 jutsu being blocked by his orb is absolutely nothing to suggest it can block Raikiri - raikiri using lightning release to cut. OBito's orb blocked the physical force of a Rasengan and fire element of amaterasu, Yata blocked the physichal force of a massive summoning(hydra) and fire of countless explosions, but yet you want to put rasengans hype in your silly little example.
Actually, what were you even trying to accomplish with rasengan...? It's broken it's DB hype so many types. Raikiri's actually cut V2 Tailed beasts (kusanagi failed), Ay's raiton armor, Gaara's sand, etc... Really, were you that desperate to bring in Rasengan?

In short, either you admit Raikiri cuts the black orbs(Light and Dark jutsu), and yata(Spiritual shield with no physical form) - raikiri's never failed to cut anything thus far - or you admit it doesn't. Either way you look like a fool. Good luck with your obvious bias response.

 

[HadouKage]

Itachi fans will forever use a minute statement and contradiction of a book as proof. Honestly I don't see why this even needs to be debated anymore

 

[P3ĮÑ]

I don't see what the hype is all about, people getting serious and pulling of some major name calling over a fictional character debate...LMAO!!! Calm down brethren's. *lights up a cigarette*

if the manga really does suggest that Yata can block anything, with that logic all the previous hyperbolic/no limit fallacy statements were proven wrong later on in the manga, since we never saw Yata being used occasionally, so it never had the chance or opportunity to get debunked lol. My man kishi.

 

[BlinkST]

So you are basically saying they did exist but rather another susano user had them before itachi therefore they existed before him, but also they are susano weapons. But if that is what you are saying, then why has it never been lumped along with the susano weapons we know of, but also it has clear hype and aura hinting that they are separate.

They were lumped in with the other weapons. They simply tend to stand out more due to their other properties. People knew about the Totsuka blade, but no one knew it was actually liquid inside of a jar.

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Thus no one recognized what it truly was until Itachi began the sealing process. Orochimaru thought it was an actual physical sword, so he was looking for a sword. Same deal with the shield. These are simply legends that became distorted over time, and the truth was uncovered that they had been Susanoo powers the whole time.

Its true nothing states that itachi found them. However because it was stated that orochimaru was the one seeking them, majority assumed they were up for grabs

And it was later revealed that he had been looking for the blade based on a misconception; a legend. It never states he was actually going to find them or that they had been physical weapons prior to that.

Both weapons have time and time again been stated to have the ability to change its properties. Majority assume (and myself) that its ability to change its properties as it has no set/physical form is what allowed itachi to equip it with susano

It was never stated that the Totsuka sword can "change it's properties", and the manner in which the Yata mirror changes has to do with the manner in which it deals with enemy jutsu. It never stated that either of them had been "found" and "added" by Itachi, or "modified" by him somehow. It simply says they are the power of the Susano'o.