what happend to uchiha is madaras fault.

[obito uchiha the wraith]

No, he didn't.

It was Hashirama and Madara's willingness to bring peace to what created that.
Again, when was it shown that Madara's actions were what people thought the Uchiha were like?

it was hashirama who brought the peace it was highlighted in the manga he was the one who spared madara not the other way around. he was the one who convinced madara to form the village not the other way around. it was shown by tobiramas words " I didn't want there to be another MADARA."

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

The German army didn't follow Hitler? He over ran them and formed his own which DWARFED the German army.

It's not about forgiven them. You ignored my question.
Are Germans still viewed as Anti-semantic killers today because of Hitlers actions and views?

I didn't ignore your question I answered it in the same sentence. " a lot of people still haven't forgiven them for following hitler." if they were to ever do something even close to bad it would be instantly be compared to what hitler did. its the same situation as what madara did.

 

[Raekwon26]

it was hashirama who brought the peace it was highlighted in the manga he was the one who spared madara not the other way around. he was the one who convinced madara to form the village not the other way around. it was shown by tobiramas words " I didn't want there to be another MADARA."

The formation of the village is not happening without Madara. Period.

 

[WalksInShadows]

when a parent is trying to warn their kid that they're running with a bad crowd and the kid doesn't listen going "oh you don't know what you're talking about, they care about me", it's not the parent's fault when that kid ends up getting screwed by that crowd. It sucks for the ppl that got massacred that they had to pay for a prior gen's foolishness in believing they knew better than Madara.

see you know nothing of diplomacy. you think madara LEADER OF PEOPLEs action wont affect someones opinion of the people he leads? he didn't even attempt diplomacy he instead decided to try to use force and that's why its his fault.

it's kind of both hypocritical and ironic that you say Madara didn't attempt diplomacy, yet you basically said Tobirama and Danzo were completely justified in what they did. And they displayed 0 diplomacy.

That being said, you're wrong about how Madara didn't try diplomacy. The guy willingly accepted Hashirama's truce while going against Izuna's dying words in doing so, because a part of him still believed in the dream he and Hashirama had shared.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

The formation of the village is not happening without Madara. Period.

it did the village continued to form when he left. but like I said without hashirama it wouldn't have even been a thought.

 

[Lamb]

There is no point talking to OP, he wont change his mind and opinion. He is an avid Madara hater.

 

[Raekwon26]

I didn't ignore your question I answered it in the same sentence. " a lot of people still haven't forgiven them for following hitler." if they were to ever do something even close to bad it would be instantly be compared to what hitler did. its the same situation as what madara did.

That's not answering the question at all, so I'll ask again;
Are Germany still viewed as Anti-Semantic killers today because of Hitlers actions and views? Simple yes or no.

Also, that had to be the worst example I've ever heard. If they do something bad, people would bring up the Holocaust? Really? REALLY?

 

[Raekwon26]

it did the village continued to form when he left. but like I said without hashirama it wouldn't have even been a thought.

Wrong again.

The idea and concept of the Village was thought of by Madara and Hashirama when they were children.
The village is not even in existence unless Madara agrees.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

when a parent is trying to warn their kid that they're running with a bad crowd and the kid doesn't listen going "oh you don't know what you're talking about, they care about me", it's not the parent's fault when that kid ends up getting screwed by that crowd. It sucks for the ppl that got massacred that they had to pay for a prior gen's foolishness in believing they knew better than Madara.it's kind of both hypocritical and ironic that you say Madara didn't attempt diplomacy, yet you basically said Tobirama and Danzo were completely justified in what they did. And they displayed 0 diplomacy.

That being said, you're wrong about how Madara didn't try diplomacy. The guy willingly accepted Hashirama's truce while going against Izuna's dying words in doing so, because a part of him still believed in the dream he and Hashirama had shared.

madara did not attempt diplomacy. he hooped and hollered that the senju was bad and didn't even think about it from his peoples point of view after that he ran away from the village and didn't try to help them but instead tried to kill them. tobirama did attempt diplomacy he tried to give them a good position by making them the police force but it backfired he died before he could fix it. danzo is a **** I cant really agree with what he did but yes he was justified WHY? because the uchiha were planning on killing everyone hiruzen had already tried to find a peaceful solution but they did not take it.

 

[cptenn94]

He did.

He warned Hashirama (The CURRENT HOKAGE) and his Clan. What more should he have done?

He warns Hashirama and his clan. He stays alert throughout his life, but stays peaceful in the village. Tobirama becomes hokage. Tobirama tries to subjugate the uchiha.

Madara and uchiha try to revolt. Revolt doesnt work, so they rebel, and try to stop tobirama, while avoiding destroying the village.

They stop tobirama and the people with him who tried to subjugate them, then they go back to being peaceful, and help rebuild the damage they caused.


Saying madaras choice of attacking the entire village to stop a POSSIBLE outcome is the right decision, is bull crap.

Its like saying its fine for me to shoot someone who is in the alley with me in a sketchy part of town. Sure it might be likely that they will attack me. But until they actually begin attacking me, or approaching me threateningly, I should not shoot.

Using that logic, It was the right thing to do for Zimmerman to shoot Trayvon Martin. Because trayvon might have robbed one of his neighbors. (and his neighbors had been robbed several times over the years).


It is FINE to take preemptive action to prevent those things from happening. It would be fine for the uchiha to have their defenses up, so they are not subjugated. It is fine for the person in the alley to have a weapon on them in case someone attacks. It is fine for zimmerman to be alert and ready if trayvon tried something(and the reverse as well).

It is a whole other thing for someone to act on it, before it happens.

You dont know what the future holds, so you should not make serious actions based on just one of the possibilities. You dont just go arrest kids in school because they might rob a bank in the future. Or rape your sister. You keep your eyes open in case they do so you can stop them, and then punish them. But you do not attack them or imprison them for a crime they have not commited.



Disclaimer. This post is NOT a discussion about the zimmerman case. I used it, because it is a example of something that would be fine and moral with your ideals, but that you are probably opposed to. I am not saying either person was innocent, or guilty. I am just using it as a example of killing someone because of their possible future actions is wrong.






Finally though, what happened to the uchiha is not madaras fault nor tobiramas fault. It is the uchihas fault, and danzo/hiruzens fault.

The uchiha did not have to plan rebellion, and the leaders of the village did not have to kill the uchiha for actions they had not yet fully committed.


It is madara and tobiramas fault that the uchiha were placed in the somewhat oppressive situation they were in, but not their fault for the rebellion in planning, or the massacre.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

There is no point talking to OP, he wont change his mind and opinion. He is an avid Madara hater.

no im not its just that people try to blame something on tobirama when its not even his fault that madara went crazy and tried to kill everyone without any care for his own safety nor the uchihas.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

That's not answering the question at all, so I'll ask again;
Are Germany still viewed as Anti-Semantic killers today because of Hitlers actions and views? Simple yes or no.

Also, that had to be the worst example I've ever heard. If they do something bad, people would bring up the Holocaust? Really? REALLY?

I answered your question take it or leave it because its not a yes or no question. hitler tried to attempt world domination the holocaust was done along side that.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

Wrong again.

The idea and concept of the Village was thought of by Madara and Hashirama when they were children.
The village is not even in existence unless Madara agrees.

hashirama thought of it first madara said it sounded stupid and then agreed right after. and the village may have come to be even without madara because the uchiha started defecting in droves.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

He warns Hashirama and his clan. He stays alert throughout his life, but stays peaceful in the village. Tobirama becomes hokage. Tobirama tries to subjugate the uchiha.

Madara and uchiha try to revolt. Revolt doesnt work, so they rebel, and try to stop tobirama, while avoiding destroying the village.

They stop tobirama and the people with him who tried to subjugate them, then they go back to being peaceful, and help rebuild the damage they caused.


Saying madaras choice of attacking the entire village to stop a POSSIBLE outcome is the right decision, is bull crap.

Its like saying its fine for me to shoot someone who is in the alley with me in a sketchy part of town. Sure it might be likely that they will attack me. But until they actually begin attacking me, or approaching me threateningly, I should not shoot.

Using that logic, It was the right thing to do for Zimmerman to shoot Trayvon Martin. Because trayvon might have robbed one of his neighbors. (and his neighbors had been robbed several times over the years).


It is FINE to take preemptive action to prevent those things from happening. It would be fine for the uchiha to have their defenses up, so they are not subjugated. It is fine for the person in the alley to have a weapon on them in case someone attacks. It is fine for zimmerman to be alert and ready if trayvon tried something(and the reverse as well).

It is a whole other thing for someone to act on it, before it happens.

You dont know what the future holds, so you should not make serious actions based on just one of the possibilities. You dont just go arrest kids in school because they might rob a bank in the future. Or rape your sister. You keep your eyes open in case they do so you can stop them, and then punish them. But you do not attack them or imprison them for a crime they have not commited.



Disclaimer. This post is NOT a discussion about the zimmerman case. I used it, because it is a example of something that would be fine and moral with your ideals, but that you are probably opposed to. I am not saying either person was innocent, or guilty. I am just using it as a example of killing someone because of their possible future actions is wrong.






Finally though, what happened to the uchiha is not madaras fault nor tobiramas fault. It is the uchihas fault, and danzo/hiruzens fault.

The uchiha did not have to plan rebellion, and the leaders of the village did not have to kill the uchiha for actions they had not yet fully committed.


It is madara and tobiramas fault that the uchiha were placed in the somewhat oppressive situation they were in, but not their fault for the rebellion in planning, or the massacre.

thank you for saying this because these people don't seem to understand what madara did was justified or even made sense.

 

[Raekwon26]

I answered your question take it or leave it because its not a yes or no question. hitler tried to attempt world domination the holocaust was done along side that.

It is a yes or no answer. The global view of the Nazi Germany was completely negative, they went to war because of Hitler's views.

It's quite simple. Hitler is not in power, Germany are not viewed as negatively as they once were under his regime.

 

[Raekwon26]

thank you for saying this because these people don't seem to understand what madara did was justified or even made sense.

You didn't even read his post and you're agreeing with him when he has basically gone against your point of singularly blaming Madara for what happened to the Uchiha.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

You didn't even read his post and you're agreeing with him when he has basically gone against your point of singularly blaming Madara for what happened to the Uchiha.

I read his entire post in full sir :| and no it didn't go against what I said it actually went with what I said. EDIT: nvm I see what youre talking about he edited it afterwards. I can still agree with what he said in the former post though.

 

[Raekwon26]

He warns Hashirama and his clan. He stays alert throughout his life, but stays peaceful in the village. Tobirama becomes hokage. Tobirama tries to subjugate the uchiha.

Madara and uchiha try to revolt. Revolt doesnt work, so they rebel, and try to stop tobirama, while avoiding destroying the village.

They stop tobirama and the people with him who tried to subjugate them, then they go back to being peaceful, and help rebuild the damage they caused.


Saying madaras choice of attacking the entire village to stop a POSSIBLE outcome is the right decision, is bull crap.

Its like saying its fine for me to shoot someone who is in the alley with me in a sketchy part of town. Sure it might be likely that they will attack me. But until they actually begin attacking me, or approaching me threateningly, I should not shoot.

Using that logic, It was the right thing to do for Zimmerman to shoot Trayvon Martin. Because trayvon might have robbed one of his neighbors. (and his neighbors had been robbed several times over the years).


It is FINE to take preemptive action to prevent those things from happening. It would be fine for the uchiha to have their defenses up, so they are not subjugated. It is fine for the person in the alley to have a weapon on them in case someone attacks. It is fine for zimmerman to be alert and ready if trayvon tried something(and the reverse as well).

It is a whole other thing for someone to act on it, before it happens.

You dont know what the future holds, so you should not make serious actions based on just one of the possibilities. You dont just go arrest kids in school because they might rob a bank in the future. Or rape your sister. You keep your eyes open in case they do so you can stop them, and then punish them. But you do not attack them or imprison them for a crime they have not commited.



Disclaimer. This post is NOT a discussion about the zimmerman case. I used it, because it is a example of something that would be fine and moral with your ideals, but that you are probably opposed to. I am not saying either person was innocent, or guilty. I am just using it as a example of killing someone because of their possible future actions is wrong.






Finally though, what happened to the uchiha is not madaras fault nor tobiramas fault. It is the uchihas fault, and danzo/hiruzens fault.

The uchiha did not have to plan rebellion, and the leaders of the village did not have to kill the uchiha for actions they had not yet fully committed.


It is madara and tobiramas fault that the uchiha were placed in the somewhat oppressive situation they were in, but not their fault for the rebellion in planning, or the massacre.

Yeah, you didn't read what he said at all

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

Yeah, you didn't read what he said at all

like I said in my post he edited the end but everything that he said before the last goes with what I said. in that if madara didn't leave the uchiha wouldn't have been subjugated forever.

 

[Raekwon26]

like I said in my post he edited the end but everything that he said before the last goes with what I said. in that if madara didn't leave the uchiha wouldn't have been subjugated forever.

You clearly just ignored the whole post.