what happend to uchiha is madaras fault.

[obito uchiha the wraith]

I know plenty about Diplomacy, but it seems you don't know anything about the current topic. The Uchiha Clan had an option, stay in the village or leave with Madara. They chose the former. They showed that they did not agree with him and were choosing to no longer be associated with him. End of him being their 'Leader'.

Madara MADE a Village with the Senju.
Madara LIVED with the Senju.
Madara accepted Hashirama as Hokage.

What he didn't accpet was what he foresaw of what would happen to his clan if the Village continued down the path it was going.

You said he should of stayed and formed a plan, a Coup, basically.

So basically, he should have started another senseless war with the Senju leading to more unnecessary deaths and destruction.... A guy who fought and promised them Peace...... leading them to another war............

Sounds smart...........

see you say you know of diplomacy yet the first thing you think when I said "plan" is war. by plan I meant he could've stayed his ass in the village cleaned up the image of the uchiha by doing good things(maybe getting a haircut so he doesn't look scary also no one want to see a scary person all the time.) basically if he had just stayed and insured that what he saw wouldn't happen then there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Raekwon26]

he WAS THEIR LEADER him leaving doesn't change that fact it would be like the president defecting to another country and living there to claim war on America. do you not think that would change how people view americans? and no they didn't view tobirama as a savage because hashirama the LEADER of the senju spared them all and was even willing to kill himself for them.

Him leaving changes EVERYTHING.
Do you even read what you're saying?
If he's left and no Longer representing them then why should people be judged on his actions alone? They've shown not to want to be represented by him.

A President leaving office and the people not following him and his views means he's lost the people and when you lose the people, you lose your position as their leader.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

Him leaving changes EVERYTHING.
Do you even read what you're saying?
If he's left and no Longer representing them then why should people be judged on his actions alone? They've shown not to want to be represented by him.

A President leaving office and the people not following him and his views means he's lost the people and when you lose the people, you lose your position as their leader.

see again you don't realize that the actions of one person doesn't only affect them alone. madara is an uchiha his actions and way of thinking are associated with the uchiha. but even more he is the leader of the uchiha and the strongest at that. his actions have weight to them and as such it effected the entire clan.

 

[Raekwon26]

see you say you know of diplomacy yet the first thing you think when I said "plan" is war. by plan I meant he could've stayed his ass in the village cleaned up the image of the uchiha by doing good things(maybe getting a haircut so he doesn't look scary also no one want to see a scary person all the time.) basically if he had just stayed and insured that what he saw wouldn't happen then there wouldn't be a problem.

Cleaned up the view of the Uchiha? You don't get it at all.
If the view of the Uchiha was already tainted before then, that means they never really stood a chance and Madara saw this as it led to not a SINGLE Uchiha being chosen for the position of Hokage since then.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

Cleaned up the view of the Uchiha? You don't get it at all.
If the view of the Uchiha was already tainted before then, that means they never really stood a chance and Madara saw this as it led to not a SINGLE Uchiha being chosen for the position of Hokage since then.

all the clans have a leader. theres no such thing as tainted opinion. all of them just got out of a warring era it just so happened that the view of the uchihas was the worst therefore he simply needed to clean said image and people would trust the uchiha. the senju were savages but hashirama cleaned that image when he spared madara and the other uchiha.

 

[Raekwon26]

see again you don't realize that the actions of one person doesn't only affect them alone. madara is an uchiha his actions and way of thinking are associated with the uchiha. but even more he is the leader of the uchiha and the strongest at that. his actions have weight to them and as such it effected the entire clan.

No, you don't realize how simple things work.
You seem to think that Madara , who left the village, lost his place as the Leader of the Clan had a direct influence on peoples view on the Uchiha. Then in the same breath, you're saying that the view on the Uchiha was already tainted BEFORE that.

His actions don't relay an enitre clan. Especially considering he was a rogue Shinobi, no longer bound to his clan or village.

 

[Raekwon26]

all the clans have a leader. theres no such thing as tainted opinion. all of them just got out of a warring era it just so happened that the view of the uchihas was the worst therefore he simply needed to clean said image and people would trust the uchiha. the senju were savages but hashirama cleaned that image when he spared madara and the other uchiha.

@bold, you just contradicted yourself and proved my point.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

No, you don't realize how simple things work.
You seem to think that Madara , who left the village, lost his place as the Leader of the Clan had a direct influence on peoples view on the Uchiha. Then in the same breath, you're saying that the view on the Uchiha was already tainted BEFORE that.

His actions don't relay an enitre clan. Especially considering he was a rogue Shinobi, no longer bound to his clan or village.

you wont stop thinking an individual think as a GROUP. GROUPS have leaders AND individuals not just individuals. the actions of one person in a GROUP can directly affect someone else even if they didn't do that same action. when madara left the village he didn't lose his influence only his leadership. he took the reupation of the uchiha with him and completely crapped on it by attacking the village terrorizing everyone in it. but you don't seem to understand why the villagers would view the uchiha negatively not just madara so let me give you an example.

you go crazy one day and decide screw it im gonna kill my neighbor because life is hard. you do that and kill his whole family while your at it and eventually get stopped. now youre in jail now think from your other neighbors point of view. you came from a big family and already had a bad image... they will be afraid that one of your brothers or sisters might do the same thing they don't want to be near you.. or have anything to do with you. now suddenly your family is the leader of the police. how am I supposed to trust you to do good when one of your own tried to kill us all?

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

@bold, you just contradicted yourself and proved my point.

you bolded half the sentence and didn't read the rest. tainted means to go bad and stay bad forever even if you try to fix it. but in that same sentence which you forgot to bold the most important part in which I explain that hashirama cleaned up the image and they were no longer viewed as savages. also I never said anything about tainting you did and for some reason thought I did.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

I fault the lack talk no jutsu.

 

[Raekwon26]

you wont stop thinking an individual think as a GROUP. GROUPS have leaders AND individuals not just individuals. the actions of one person in a GROUP can directly affect someone else even if they didn't do that same action. when madara left the village he didn't lose his influence only his leadership.

The rest is straight dribble.

The actions of an individual only affect the group when he is seen as the Leader of the group. It's seen as, the people following the leader's way of thinking. That is NOT the case with Madara and the Uchiha.

The Uchiha didn't follow Madara when he left.
The Uchiha didn't view Madara as their leader seeing as they chose to stay and follow Hashirama.
The Uchiha didn't have the same views as Madara.

Once that 'leader' is no longer in that position and not viewed as the leader, they are no longer seen as the representative of that groups views.
That's basic and even further illustrated by the fact that it was never stated that the Uchiha were disliked or seen as a problem because of Madara's actions. That has never been stated ONCE in the Manga.

 

[Raekwon26]

you bolded half the sentence and didn't read the rest. tainted means to go bad and stay bad forever even if you try to fix it. but in that same sentence which you forgot to bold the most important part in which I explain that hashirama cleaned up the image and they were no longer viewed as savages. also I never said anything about tainting you did and for some reason thought I did.

@bold, that's not what tainted means at all.

Again, Hashirama didn't clean up the image of the Senju. The unison that Hashirama and Madara created is what allowed for growth, understanding and peace to begin to form. It was about getting to know the person you are fighting and not judging them based on some preconceived notion that they are evil.

Madara and Hashirama's unison created the beginnings of that.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

The rest is straight dribble.

The actions of an individual only affect the group when he is seen as the Leader of the group. It's seen as, the people following the leader's way of thinking. That is NOT the case with Madara and the Uchiha.

The Uchiha didn't follow Madara when he left.
The Uchiha didn't view Madara as their leader seeing as they chose to stay and follow Hashirama.
The Uchiha didn't have the same views as Madara.

Once that 'leader' is no longer in that position and not viewed as the leader, they are no longer seen as the representative of that groups views.
That's basic and even further illustrated by the fact that it was never stated that the Uchiha were disliked or seen as a problem because of Madara's actions. That has never been stated ONCE in the Manga.

diplomacy doesn't work that way. like I said even though madara wasn't the leader anymore he still had influence over them.

 

[Eternal Mangekyo Sojobo]

The rest is straight dribble.

The actions of an individual only affect the group when he is seen as the Leader of the group. It's seen as, the people following the leader's way of thinking. That is NOT the case with Madara and the Uchiha.

The Uchiha didn't follow Madara when he left.
The Uchiha didn't view Madara as their leader seeing as they chose to stay and follow Hashirama.
The Uchiha didn't have the same views as Madara.

Once that 'leader' is no longer in that position and not viewed as the leader, they are no longer seen as the representative of that groups views.
That's basic and even further illustrated by the fact that it was never stated that the Uchiha were disliked or seen as a problem because of Madara's actions. That has never been stated ONCE in the Manga.

I totally agree but it seems OP lacks understanding skills and neutrality ; no bash though . I simply can't understand how he still think he's right .

 

[Raekwon26]

diplomacy doesn't work that way. like I said even though madara wasn't the leader anymore he still had influence over them.

Yes, diplomacy does work that way.
If it didn't, then the majority of the world would still think of Germany as Anti-semantic killers because of Hitlers views............ but they don't do they? And why is that?

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

@bold, that's not what tainted means at all.

Again, Hashirama didn't clean up the image of the Senju. The unison that Hashirama and Madara created is what allowed for growth, understanding and peace to begin to form. It was about getting to know the person you are fighting and not judging them based on some preconceived notion that they are evil.

Madara and Hashirama's unison created the beginnings of that.

hashirama did clean up the image. he destroyed the image that the senju were bad that's what enabled the alliance in the first place. madara only proved the preconceived notions about the uchiha were right.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

Yes, diplomacy does work that way.
If it didn't, then the majority of the world would still think of Germany as Anti-semantic killers because of Hitlers views............ but they don't do they? And why is that?

they don't because the german army didn't follow hitler :| and many people still haven't forgivin the germans for following hitler.

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

I totally agree but it seems OP lacks understanding skills and neutrality ; no bash though . I simply can't understand how he still think he's right .

how am I wrong? madara did evil. the village perceived the uchiha negatively because of that. the uchiha follow madara because of that. whos fault is it the uchiha are viewed negatively?

 

[Raekwon26]

hashirama did clean up the image. he destroyed the image that the senju were bad that's what enabled the alliance in the first place. madara only proved the preconceived notions about the uchiha were right.

No, he didn't.

It was Hashirama and Madara's willingness to bring peace to what created that.
Again, when was it shown that Madara's actions were what people thought the Uchiha were like?

 

[Raekwon26]

they don't because the german army didn't follow hitler :| and many people still haven't forgivin the germans for following hitler.

The German army didn't follow Hitler? He over ran them and formed his own which DWARFED the German army.

It's not about forgiven them. You ignored my question.
Are Germans still viewed as Anti-semantic killers today because of Hitlers actions and views?