[Discussion] Scratch Sanji from The Monster Trio

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A v i

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Zoro's greatest feat is cutting Pica, which Sanji has come near by setting the puffer Fish on fire.

Wadatsumi was afloat because of the air leak caused by Jimbe's attack. And all of Wadatsumi's versions are nowhere near Pica in size. Furthermore,destroying rock of that volume is far harder than setting Wadatsumi on fire.Wadatsumi's nowhere near Hyouzou let alone Pica who's leaps and bounds above all of FMI opponents of SH's. You can't seriously compare the two just because the guy looks big. Funny thing is that you were the who was calling DC based power scaling is stupid yet you're the one who's using it here while intentionally ignoring obvious difference in the portrayal of their respective opponents for the sake of making Sanji look better than he actually is.


Wadatsumi is as big as a mountain, that's big enough.
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Pica's palms are stated to be the size of a city which'd make his overall size much bigger than what you call a mountain.You can tell the difference in their size just by comparing Sanji in your own page with Wadatsumi.
 
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Punk Hazard

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Wadatsumi was afloat because of the air leak caused by Jimbe's attack. And all of Wadatsumi's versions are nowhere near Pica in size. Furthermore,destroying rock of that volume is far harder than setting Wadatsumi on fire.Wadatsumi's nowhere near Hyouzou let alone Pica who's leaps and bounds above all of FMI opponents of SH's. You can't seriously compare the two just because the guy looks big. Funny thing is that you were the who was calling DC based power scaling is stupid yet you're the one who's using it here while intentionally ignoring obvious difference in the portrayal of their respective opponents for the sake of making Sanji look better than he actually is.
Oh please, are we really using the "rock is greater than flesh" argument when people were crushing stone columns and buildings far greater than their flesh's volume back in Alabasta? Luffy shook a city block made of stone and steel when he beat Crocodile, FOH

No one is saying Wada is the same strength as Pica. His size in terms of the width of his body is greater if not the same as Pica's. He's fat as ****. He might not be as tall or have the same overall volume, but his width exceeds Pica's. As for being weaker than that octopus swordsman: baseless.

I'm using DC-based power scaling because every time someone compares Sanji and Zoro, the only argument presented is the idiotic "ZORO'S CUT WAS MASSIVE M8" argument, as though that's enough to win every fight. I'm simply pointing out why even that doesn't work.

Portrayal of their respective opponents? Please, their portrayal against people since the timeskip have been either even or invalidated due to some kind of disadvantage. There are no two opponents since the timeskip that Zoro and Sanji faced one v one, 100% and were on the same level where Zoro did better than Sanji.
 
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Love Cook

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Pica's palms are stated to be the size of a city which'd make his overall size much bigger than what you call a mountain.You can tell the difference in their size just by comparing Sanji in your own page with Wadatsumi.


Pica's palms are the size of a city.

While Pica is in a city

Made out of stone from a part of the city.

Cityception ! Or a massive flaw in your bullshit. Maybe you shouldn't take Usopp's words so serious mate. Pica was barely bigger than the plateau. Which makes him the size of a big hill and not a mountain.
 

Punk Hazard

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Pica's palms are the size of the city.

While Pica is in a city

Made out of stone from a part of the city.

Cityception ! Or a massive flaw in your bullshit. Maybe you shouldn't take Usopp's words so serious mate. Pica was barely bigger than the plateau. Which makes him the size of a big hill and not a mountain.
Jesus, I didn't even notice that. Are people still saying that? Are people really saying Pica's PALM was the size of two cities when he wasn't wider than the plateau and he was walking IN THE CITY? Are people taking USOPP'S HYPERBOLE as fact now? What is this place coming to
 

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Pica's palms are stated to be the size of a city which'd make his overall size much bigger than what you call a mountain.You can tell the difference in their size just by comparing Sanji in your own page with Wadatsumi.


It's not by much, sure pica is bigger no argument there, but saying"much" seems baseless, especially since wadatsumi expanded alot by holding the air in his body
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Here's a better shot of how big he is

Also, wasn't the plateau kinda wider?:lol I mean I'm it's usopp here who said that.
 
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A v i

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Jesus, you guys only mesure a character's worth by physical strenght and the ability to blow stuff up at a distance. Head on, Zoro is probably stronger than Sanji, because he is more powerful. But Sanji is way smarter, and his speed/mobility is top knot, the guy can fly for god's sake. Doflamingo himself said there are a number of ways to beat a enemy that is more powerful than you. I say there is no way to know who wins a fight in a open environment, Sanji could backstab Zoro good. They don't each have a specialty haki for nothing.

Winning a battle and being stronger are different things. While I admit that Sanji's leaps ahead of Zoro as far as intelligence goes; it accounts for nothing against Zoro when Sanji himself is a straight forward fighter just like Zoro. Zoro is not as stupid as he appears to be, at least not as far as it concerns fighting. He may lack in mobility but Sanji's mobility isn't a big issue for Zoro as he has enough reactions and striking rate to tag Sanji. Using tricks to win a battle isn't same as being stronger than your opponent nad tricks can only get you so far in a battle as proved on numerous occasions through out the series.In the end you'll have to rely on your own skill set to gain the victory. If there is a way for Sanji to be able to beat Zoro fair and square, it's by being better fighter than him which is not possible as Zoro clearly is better than Sanji.


Jesus, I didn't even notice that. Are people still saying that? Are people really saying Pica's PALM was the size of two cities when he wasn't wider than the plateau and he was walking IN THE CITY? Are people taking USOPP'S HYPERBOLE as fact now? What is this place coming to
Pica's palms are the size of a city.

While Pica is in a city

Made out of stone from a part of the city.

Cityception ! Or a massive flaw in your bullshit. Maybe you shouldn't take Usopp's words so serious mate. Pica was barely bigger than the plateau. Which makes him the size of a big hill and not a mountain.

:| I can't believe that you guys actually took that argument seriously.


It's not by much, sure pica is bigger no argument there, but saying"much" seems baseless, especially since wadatsumi expanded alot by holding the air in his body
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Here's a better shot of how big he is

Also, wasn't the plateau kinda wider?:lol I mean I'm it's usopp here who said that.

Wadatsumi being mountain sized is as erroneous as Pica''s palm being as big as a town.
 
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Bogard

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Sanji's body was damaged while he was fighting Vergo, so it's not a proper gauge of his strength or capabilities.

Against Doflamingo, Sanji got his ass handed to him, and Zoro got the same treatment when he went up against someone on a similar level.

On Fishman Island, Sanji didn't need Jinbei to finish off Wada. Jinbei just launched him into the air, Sanji could have just dive-bombed him.
Vergo was damaged too and he was restricting himself, yet still winning

Fujitora is a level above Doflamingo for starters. Secondly one was damaged from a sneak attack he still managed to retaliate from and pushing the opponent back when the other tried to sneak attack the other and was still casually blocked/dodged/tossed aside without even scratching let alone moving the opponent an inch back. Thirdly, the fight between Zoro and Fujitora was left undecided despite clashing with him 2times(and still willing to clash another time) when the other was helpless and had to be saved by Law

Firstly, yes he did. Jinbe used his secret technique that created a big hole in Wadatsumi's body and diminished his health point by a lot even before Sanji used his ultimate move. So yes like i've said Sanji has yet to defeat someone 1 on 1.

Secondly, Wadatsumi isn't even close to Pica in size and no don't even bother showing me your pitful scaling especially when Oda isn't really as proportional in his drawings. Official calculations put Pica at the kilometer range when Wadatsumi isn't even 100meters big. Thirdly, there is a difference between area of effect and destructive power. Only the area of effect of Hell Memories is big. It didn't even destroy Wadatsumi's body when Sanzen Sekai's destructive power was so great that it not only destroyed through a kilometer range of solid stone but sent it flying hundred meters away. The feats aren't even close to each other. Fourthly, the strongest people in the one piece world are ants compared to Wadatsumi. Wadatsumi was a fodder compared to Pica. Fifthly, from the way i read your posts, our views are completely different, so don't bother replying. It woud be a waste of time
 

Punk Hazard

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It's not by much, sure pica is bigger no argument there, but saying"much" seems baseless, especially since wadatsumi expanded alot by holding the air in his body
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Here's a better shot of how big he is

Also, wasn't the plateau kinda wider?:lol I mean I'm it's usopp here who said that.
Jinbei there looks pretty much the same as Zoro did while compared to Pica. And Jinbei is bigger than Zoro.
 

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Winning a battle and being stronger are different things. While I admit that Sanji's leaps ahead of Zoro as far as intelligence goes; it accounts for nothing against Zoro when Sanji himself is a straight forward fighter just like Zoro. Zoro is not as stupid as he appears to be, at least not as far as it concerns fighting. He may lack in mobility but Sanji's mobility isn't a big issue for Zoro as he has enough reactions and striking rate to tag Sanji. Using tricks to win a battle isn't same as being stronger than your opponent nad tricks can only get you so far in a battle as proved on numerous occasions through out the series.In the end you'll have to rely on your own skill set to gain the victory. If there is a way for Sanji to be able to beat Zoro fair and square, it's by being better fighter than him which is not possible as Zoro clearly is better than Sanji.






:| I can't believe that you guys actually took that argument seriously.




Wadatsumi being mountain sized is as erroneous as Pica''s palm being as big as a town.
Hence I said "big enough", pica was bigger but not by much
 

Punk Hazard

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Vergo was damaged too and he was restricting himself, yet still winning
By who/what?

Fujitora is a level above Doflamingo for starters
Fujitora was being bruised and pushed back by attacks a weakened Doflamingo was toying with. There are a lot closer than we gave Doffy, and Luffy, credit for, especially since the general conclusion of Doffy's strength in this section is derived from his weakened performance against Luffy. We have to see Doffy go all out with his full strength, and he was still gonna kill Luffy if help was not there, yet we still try to downgrade him to Luffy's equal or inferior.

Secondly one was damaged from a sneak attack he still managed to retaliate from and pushing the opponent back when the other tried to sneak attack the other and was still casually blocked/dodged/tossed aside without even scratching let alone moving the opponent an inch back. Thirdly, the fight between Zoro and Fujitora was left undecided despite clashing with him 2times(and still willing to clash another time) when the other was helpless and had to be saved by Law
And Zoro wasn't helpless? One attack from Fujitora left Zoro panting and kneeling on the ground. A follow up attack from Fujitora would have nailed Zoro head-on if Fujitora had chosen to follow up. In both fights, Zoro and Sanji were effortlessly blocked, blown back, and their attacks were effortlessly blocked again. Equal portrayal against opponents that weren't too far from each other. Zoro vs Fuji and Sanji vs Doffy were both undecided, but it's obvious who the winner would have been.

Firstly, yes he did. Jinbe used his secret technique that created a big hole in Wadatsumi's body and diminished his health point by a lot even before Sanji used his ultimate move.
That attack decreasing Wada's health by a lot is completely baseless and nothing more but conjecture. Nothing suggests Sanji couldn't dive bomb Wadatsumi, or that Hell Memories wouldn't have worked without Jinbei's attack.
Secondly, Wadatsumi isn't even close to Pica in size
No shit. I never said Wada was the same size as Pica, I said he was wider. Jinbei in comparison to Wada is pretty much the same as Zoro in comparison to Pica. This, plus the fact that Jinbei is bigger than Zoro, is more than enough proof that Wada is wider, even if he isn't taller.

and no don't even bother showing me your pitful scaling especially when Oda isn't really as proportional in his drawings. Official calculations put Pica at the kilometer range when Wadatsumi isn't even 100meters big.
"Calculations are pitiful because Oda doesn't draw proportionally but there are 'official' calculations that I accept as the final say because they fit my narrative, even though I just said why calculations are faulty."

Thirdly, there is a difference between area of effect and destructive power. Only the area of effect of Hell Memories is big. It didn't even destroy Wadatsumi's body when Sanzen Sekai's destructive power was so great that it not only destroyed through a kilometer range of solid stone but sent it flying hundred meters away.
Nope, Elizabello's King Punch sent the debris that was over the plateau flying, not Zoro's cut. The rest of the debris fell far from the plateau because Pica's colossal size allowed his body to be far away from the plateau, with the length of his arm providing the reach to reach the plateau. Zoro's cuts didn't send anything flying.

the strongest people in the one piece world are ants compared to Wadatsumi. Wadatsumi was a fodder compared to Pica.
Who the hell said Wada was the same strength as Pica?

Fifthly, our views are completely different, so don't bother replying. It woud be a waste of time
Then why did you respond to me?
 

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Nonsense after nonsense. That's why i told you not to reply. My quote was just to share my view to the community seeing how i already realised it was pointless arguing with you
 

Punk Hazard

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Nonsense after nonsense. That's why you shouldn't have tried to argue in here. My quote was just to share my view with the community since I can also make general, vague statements saying I'm right to make myself look smarter and more right. I am the only one allowed to make arguments, you must shut up and not respond to me.
 

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No just acknowledging how pointless it is to argue with little kids. But ok you win the debate. Doflamingo >>> Fujitora. Wadatsumi is countless times bigger and stronger than Pica. Sanji fodderized Wadatsumi alongside Pica and Jinbei. Happy?
 

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Because it is pointless to argue with little kids, I am now going to take the childish route and blow your points out of proportion because you didn't shut up when I said "Shut up, only I speak."
 

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Oh please, are we really using the "rock is greater than flesh" argument when people were crushing stone columns and buildings far greater than their flesh's volume back in Alabasta? Luffy shook a city block made of stone and steel when he beat Crocodile, FOH

No one is saying Wada is the same strength as Pica. His size in terms of the width of his body is greater if not the same as Pica's. He's fat as ****. He might not be as tall or have the same overall volume, but his width exceeds Pica's. As for being weaker than that octopus swordsman: baseless.

I'm using DC-based power scaling because every time someone compares Sanji and Zoro, the only argument presented is the idiotic "ZORO'S CUT WAS MASSIVE M8" argument, as though that's enough to win every fight. I'm simply pointing out why even that doesn't work.

Portrayal of their respective opponents? Please, their portrayal against people since the timeskip have been either even or invalidated due to some kind of disadvantage. There are no two opponents since the timeskip that Zoro and Sanji faced one v one, 100% and were on the same level where Zoro did better than Sanji.

It's amazing to see how easily people overlook the difference in scale for the sake fo arguments. There is an astronomical difference b/w breaking buildings and leveling a mountain. It's not about rock being harder than flesh, it's about the volume of the rock and scale of the attack.

It seems like you have no intention of looking at the colossal difference in their size as it's the only hope you guys have in your hands to put Sanji near Zoro. And I hope you were joking when you said that Hyouzou being stronger than Wadatsumi is a baseless claim. From portrayal stand point; He was the only character besides Hody to get a complete transformation. And he was hired by Hody for being strong unlike his other underlings. Jet pistol is all it took Luffy to get rid of Wadatsumi, he even destroyed one his tooth when Hyouzou was shown to be capable of reacting to same jet pistol and blocked it. He even managed to inject poison into Luffy which was done unintentionally implying that he could do much more under normal circumstances. Luffy hyped him for being strong and that man turned into monster by consuming lots of ES which'd put him several levels beyond his base. You can't possibly think that guy's weaker than Wadatsumi. Not to mention the fact that Zoro holds the record for easily one shotting Hody under water. All versions of Hody are leaps above all versions of Wadatsumi.

Once again it wasn't just the size of the attack. Everything about the battle was far superior to what we've seen from Sanji so far. Scale of the attacks is on a whole new level, DC is more, timing/reactions/striking rate/ everything that concerns time was better as he did everything when the golem is still afloat,level of difficulty the opponent has to offer is more as Pica's a tricky opponent to beat,portrayal of Pica,And overall strength of Pica is far beyond anything Wadatsumi has to offer. Hence you can't seriously compare those two feats. I was referring to Pica and Wadatsumi when I said that you were ignoring the portrayal difference in their opponents.



That's what I'm saying, it's pretty much about the angle, I mean surely one could say pica is smaller here:lol
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The buildings looks far smaller than his fingers,I don't see what part of that panel makes him look smaller. The angle can't fool your eyes in the following page and you can see the clear difference in the sizes of Jimbe and Wadatsumi here.'
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*Doesn't make the argument that Wada is bigger or stronger than Pica*
*Sees people arguing that Wada is not bigger or stronger than Pica*

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Never said Wada was bigger, I said he was wider.
 

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*Doesn't make the argument that Wada is bigger or stronger than Pica*
*Sees people arguing that Wada is not bigger or stronger than Pica*

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Never said Wada was bigger, I said he was wider.
Nice way to debunk the arguments. It should be more than obvious for anyone at this point that we're arguing over how big the difference is and not about whether if Pica is bigger than Wadatsumi or not. I don't even get how someone who understands the diffrence b/w Pica and Wadatsumi would try to place the feats of Sanji near Zoro. You did tried to put Sanji near Zoro by stating that he defeated someone as big as Wada, that's why I even bothered myself by explaining why people didn't simply put Zoro's feats much above Sanji's because of the size alone.
 

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Nice way to debunk the arguments. It should be more than obvious for anyone at this point that we're arguing over how big the difference is and not about whether if Pica is bigger than Wadatsumi or not. I don't even get how someone who understands the diffrence b/w Pica and Wadatsumi would try to place the feats of Sanji near Zoro. You did tried to put Sanji near Zoro by stating that he defeated someone as big as Wada, that's why I even bothered myself by explaining why people didn't simply put Zoro's feats much above Sanji's because of the size alone.
Pica was bigger because of height. His waist, which is what Zoro cut, was not wider than Wada. That's why the difference doesn't matter.

No, I put the scale of Sanji's attack on the same scale as Zoro's, because that's been the most common argument for why Zoro is stronger: He had a bigger area of effect.
 

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Pica was bigger because of height. His waist, which is what Zoro cut, was not wider than Wada. That's why the difference doesn't matter.

No, I put the scale of Sanji's attack on the same scale as Zoro's, because that's been the most common argument for why Zoro is stronger: He had a bigger area of effect.

You have no intention if accepting the actual difference as I said before. You put Sanji near Zoro because of AOE and that's preciously why I bothered myself by explaining why Zoro's feats are being placed on a whole new level not entirely because of the AOE. And I ask of you to stick with one argument at a time. You were trying to place Sanji's scale on Zoro's level which in turn would put Wadatsumi's size near Pica's level and at the same time you're claiming that Pica's bigger than Wadatsumi. Both can't exist at the same time. Try being consistent.
 
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