How was he shitty compared to kuzan doffy achieved a feat of breaking out of kuzan ice that no one had done with exception of whitebeard....
He left simply cuz he was looking for law and luffy what would fighting kuzan prove or add to him capturing Caesar back? Idk why ppl shit on doffy all the time seriously idk why ppl think he's weak when he's the first character of the series that made luffy see that he needs help to survive or even remotely be ready to become pirate King...
Lastly Blackbeard a yonko ran away from akainu when the whole Bonney thing happened he literally ran away where as doffy was attacked by kuzan and he broke out of the ice and walked away unharmed .... Yet doffy is called coward etc... How is he a coward when he needed to find the two idiots who were about to unravel his entire lifestyle ....
As for the breathing heavily he was frozen solid how can u breath when frozen or breath effientally anyway...
That last part is actually a really good point. A lot of people, myself included, attribute the heavy breathing to the amount of effort needed to break out, when it could have just been the inability to breathe while frozen.
That last part is actually a really good point. A lot of people, myself included, attribute the heavy breathing to the amount of effort needed to break out, when it could have just been the inability to breathe while frozen.
I mean he was frozen completely idk why kuzan would leave someone's mouth open when freezing them and if I can remember properaly luffy was same way when they had to defrost him im pretty sure air is going through as oxygen is everywhere etc.. But not nearly enough as a regular body is used to
Regardless of this why the **** is doffy being said that he got shat on for doing the same feat whitebeard did... It just sucks he's such a cool character that ppl literally shit on him literally every thread .. Lol not to mention no one mentions how Blackbeard literally (with his entire crew might add) ran away from akainu after capturing Boney etc .. But no one mentions this or says he's weak that right there can b interpreted as portrayal .... But no doffy actually breaking out of the ice and walking away is believed that he was scared etc (I'm pretty sure he would lose not as easily as everyone says but lose neither less with all his feats I have no problem believing that he can stall an admiral level fighter in the same manner that jozu with kuzan Marco with all three admirals and vista with mihawk could)
Lol then there's Sanji I hope oda shows off his new abilities so everyone can shut up
I'm just happy no one talks bad about kuma and law these r my two faveslol
I mean he was frozen completely idk why kuzan would leave someone's mouth open when freezing them and if I can remember properaly luffy was same way when they had to defrost him im pretty sure air is going through as oxygen is everywhere etc.. But not nearly enough as a regular body is used to
Regardless of this why the **** is doffy being said that he got shat on for doing the same feat whitebeard did... It just sucks he's such a cool character that ppl literally shit on him literally every thread .. Lol not to mention no one mentions how Blackbeard literally (with his entire crew might add) ran away from akainu after capturing Boney etc .. But no one mentions this or says he's weak that right there can b interpreted as portrayal .... But no doffy actually breaking out of the ice and walking away is believed that he was scared etc (I'm pretty sure he would lose not as easily as everyone says but lose neither less with all his feats I have no problem believing that he can stall an admiral level fighter in the same manner that jozu with kuzan Marco with all three admirals and vista with mihawk could)
Lol then there's Sanji I hope oda shows off his new abilities so everyone can shut up
I'm just happy no one talks bad about kuma and law these r my two faveslol
People flipped with Doffy so quick after Gamma Knife. As though they'd prefer to see Law and Luffy lose.
I'm pretty excited for the feats we're sure to get from Sanji. Aaaand I just remembered there's a break this week thinking about the chance to see Sanji soon. Goddammit.
People flipped with Doffy so quick after Gamma Knife. As though they'd prefer to see Law and Luffy lose.
I'm pretty excited for the feats we're sure to get from Sanji. Aaaand I just remembered there's a break this week thinking about the chance to see Sanji soon. Goddammit.
Kuzan's hands being in his pocket means absolutely nothing. His ice is gonna be the same whether he gestures towards you. You're looking at superfluous details like his hands being in his pocket rather than the actual scale of the attack. The ice Kuzan used on Doffy was in greater scale than what he used on Jozu, so it wasn't some throwaway casual attack either.
The attack didn't come out of nowhere. Issho blocking Zoro's strike towards Doffy was out of nowhere. By the time the attack came, Zoro was well aware of Fujitora's presence.
Another thing to note is that Doflamingo didn't even bother to acknowledge Zoro's strike because he knew Fujitora was coming, something Zoro couldn't become aware of, showing that, like Sanji, Zoro is notably below Doflamingo's level.
You're basically saying that because his power involves freezing, all of his attacks are of same level as everything comes down to freezing his opponents in the end. Putting his hands in pockets and attacking him without moving an inch holds grater significance than what you actually think. It means that he doesn't need to put much effort to be able to stop Doflamingo. Can he do the same to Kizaru? Rayleigh? Or any top rater fighter for that matter? He failed to freeze Jozu when they're fighting head on while trying to kill each other if needed which would make Doflamingo's case much worse as he was frozen even when he's well aware of his own condition.
Attacks some times appears to be small in scale when used directly on opponents body. Zoro asura is the best possible example for such a case. He overpowered an attack which holds enough power to cut tower of justice in half yet it doesn't appears to have grater scale than the attack which was overpowered by Asura. The attack used on Jozu was stronger as Kuzan was going for kill. Jozu was frozen to bone when it was explicitly stated that Doflamingo's insides weren't frozen. You can't seriously expect Doflamingo to toll an attack that even Jozu couldn't escape unless you put Doflamingo on a whole new level than Jozu which is ridiculous. He used surroundings as a medium to freeze Mingo instead of directly touching him or making contact with him using Ice hence the surrounding area was effected. In fact the attack he used to freeze Whitebeard had even lesser AOE than the one he used on Doflamingo.
Zoro was caught by surprise; He was attacked before he could realize by whom he's being blocked unlike Doflamingo who has complete knowledge on Kuzan and knows that he'll be attacked if he were to attack Smoker. Noting implies that he's aware of Fujitora's presence, for all we know he was just confident about countering Zoro's attack. No one said that Zoro's Doflamingo level. The point is that he didn't do anything better than Zoro against another admiral.Therefore, he's by no means is on the same level as Admirals or anywhere closer to it.
Fuji uses his gravity with his sword and how does breaking out of akojji ice something only the world strongest man (former) whitebeard was shown to be able to to do equates to owning him..
I hope you don't think the attacks he used on Whitebeard, Jozu and Doflamingo are all of same level because all of them involves freezing. Kuzan's reactions when Doflamingo and Whitebeard escaped his attacks are all it takes to realize that Kuzan's holding back against Doflamingo.
You obviously are narrow minded if you dont think Ivankov is revered as a legend. In the one piece world he is A
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, known widely as Dragon's left hand [
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]-[
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], The first and only person to escape his cell in impel down with no help and create a kingdom there.
And then there the whole thing of Ivankov being known as the Miracle Worker (Doctor of Miracles) who brought entire countries back from the brink of death. Ivankov is the very ORIGIN of SALVATION legends!!!
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So by you thinking Ivankov isnt a legend is ludacris. You must be mistaking the word legend for me saying Ivankov is as strong as Rayleigh and Mihawk (which I never said). Another example would be that Buggy the clown is just as legendary and Shanks the Yonko, but their is a huge gap in power levels.
You obviously are narrow minded if you dont think Ivankov is revered as a legend. In the one piece world he is A
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, known widely as Dragon's left hand [
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]-[
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], The first and only person to escape his cell in impel down with no help and create a kingdom there.
And then there the whole thing of Ivankov being known as the Miracle Worker (Doctor of Miracles) who brought entire countries back from the brink of death. Ivankov is the very ORIGIN of SALVATION legends!!!
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So by you thinking Ivankov isnt a legend is ludacris. You must be mistaking the word legend for me saying Ivankov is as strong as Rayleigh and Mihawk (which I never said). Another example would be that Buggy the clown is just as legendary and Shanks the Yonko, but their is a huge gap in power levels.
How can Iva be as much of a legend as Mihawk and Rayleigh when he's no match for them in both status as well as power? Simply being a legend and being on a top figures level are two different things.
How can Iva be as much of a legend as Mihawk and Rayleigh when he's no match for them in both status as well as power? Simply being a legend and being on a top figures level are two different things.
Being a legend has nothing to do with how powerful you are. I pull my definition of Legend from the dictionary, which states:
"an extremely famous or notorious person, especially in a particular field."
And great example of this would be Hitler & Larry Page. Hitler is known for his leadership qualities, status as fuhrer, and the power he possess. Hitler will forever be known as a Notorious Legend. Larry page on the other hand is the founder and creator of google, he isnt known by nearly as many people, but is still legendary in his own right. Larry Page changed the entire world of the internet and search, and because he scaled google to more than just a interet company will will now have advances in technology like augmented reality and A.I. Larry is just as legendary as Hitler but the occupy different fields. There is no quantity measurement of legendary. The act of being legendary itself is enought.
In terms of status as you pointed out, perhaps Ivankov isnt well known for his fighting ability like Rayleigh or Mihawk, but he is well known as a miracle worker in the Medical field and from what we were told during timeskip his okama recipes are also famous and reknown throughout the world. He was directly called a legend in the manga and is praised (possibly worshiped) by many factions in the OP world, so for anybody on this base to claim that Ivankov isnt legendary simply isnt true.
Being a legend has nothing to do with how powerful you are. I pull my definition of Legend from the dictionary, which states:
"an extremely famous or notorious person, especially in a particular field."
And great example of this would be Hitler & Larry Page. Hitler is known for his leadership qualities, status as fuhrer, and the power he possess. Hitler will forever be known as a Notorious Legend. Larry page on the other hand is the founder and creator of google, he isnt known by nearly as many people, but is still legendary in his own right. Larry Page changed the entire world of the internet and search, and because he scaled google to more than just a interet company will will now have advances in technology like augmented reality and A.I. Larry is just as legendary as Hitler but the occupy different fields. There is no quantity measurement of legendary. The act of being legendary itself is enought.
In terms of status as you pointed out, perhaps Ivankov isnt well known for his fighting ability like Rayleigh or Mihawk, but he is well known as a miracle worker in the Medical field and from what we were told during timeskip his okama recipes are also famous and reknown throughout the world. He was directly called a legend in the manga and is praised (possibly worshiped) by many factions in the OP world, so for anybody on this base to claim that Ivankov isnt legendary simply isnt true.
No one said that Iva isn't a legend and As I said before it's not about being a legend. The topic we've been discussing is about strength so we should look at the things that concerns strength and strength alone. Vegapunk is more of a legend than Rayleigh or Mihawk in his own field of expertise but getting trained by him doesn't make Sanji outrageously strong. Likewise Iva being a legendary cook or miracle worker doesn't make Sanji strong. Mihawk and Rayleigh became legends entirely because of their strength and that is what allows them to contribute their students better which can't be said about Iva. Sure he's strong as hell when you look at the overall structure of the OP power scaling but he's a walk in a park for likes of Rayleigh and Mihawk who can stand along side people like Shanks, Whitebeard, Kaido and Dragon in terms of strength.
You're basically saying that because his power involves freezing, all of his attacks are of same level as everything comes down to freezing his opponents in the end. Putting his hands in pockets and attacking him without moving an inch holds grater significance than what you actually think. It means that he doesn't need to put much effort to be able to stop Doflamingo. Can he do the same to Kizaru? Rayleigh? Or any top rater fighter for that matter? He failed to freeze Jozu when they're fighting head on while trying to kill each other if needed which would make Doflamingo's case much worse as he was frozen even when he's well aware of his own condition.
Attacks some times appears to be small in scale when used directly on opponents body. Zoro asura is the best possible example for such a case. He overpowered an attack which holds enough power to cut tower of justice in half yet it doesn't appears to have grater scale than the attack which was overpowered by Asura. The attack used on Jozu was stronger as Kuzan was going for kill. Jozu was frozen to bone when it was explicitly stated that Doflamingo's insides weren't frozen. You can't seriously expect Doflamingo to toll an attack that even Jozu couldn't escape unless you put Doflamingo on a whole new level than Jozu which is ridiculous. He used surroundings as a medium to freeze Mingo instead of directly touching him or making contact with him using Ice hence the surrounding area was effected. In fact the attack he used to freeze Whitebeard had even lesser AOE than the one he used on Doflamingo.
Zoro was caught by surprise; He was attacked before he could realize by whom he's being blocked unlike Doflamingo who has complete knowledge on Kuzan and knows that he'll be attacked if he were to attack Smoker. Noting implies that he's aware of Fujitora's presence, for all we know he was just confident about countering Zoro's attack. No one said that Zoro's Doflamingo level. The point is that he didn't do anything better than Zoro against another admiral.Therefore, he's by no means is on the same level as Admirals or anywhere closer to it.
I hope you don't think the attacks he used on Whitebeard, Jozu and Doflamingo are all of same level because all of them involves freezing. Kuzan's reactions when Doflamingo and Whitebeard escaped his attacks are all it takes to realize that Kuzan's holding back against Doflamingo.
I hope u don't imply that doffy was even remotely trying to fight kuzan ... Honestly what would he gain from fighting him... During that time when he was after Caesar and law...
Kuzan is def stronger then doffy sure but still I don't understand why ppl act as if doffy tried to fight back or even was scared for matter ...
No one said that Iva isn't a legend and As I said before it's not about being a legend. The topic we've been discussing is about strength so we should look at the things that concerns strength and strength alone. Vegapunk is more of a legend than Rayleigh or Mihawk in his own field of expertise but getting trained by him doesn't make Sanji outrageously strong. Likewise Iva being a legendary cook or miracle worker doesn't make Sanji strong. Mihawk and Rayleigh became legends entirely because of their strength and that is what allows them to contribute their students better which can't be said about Iva. Sure he's strong as hell when you look at the overall structure of the OP power scaling but he's a walk in a park for likes of Rayleigh and Mihawk who can stand along side people like Shanks, Whitebeard, Kaido and Dragon in terms of strength.
Zoro > Luffy, luffy cant handle chop chop, Ashura solo, zoro cutty steel in 6 directions at god speed
Zoro < Doflamingo, zoro cant chop chop
Kuzan > ur fav, they cant handle te cold
Sanji < Zoro > Luffy > Other fodders
You're basically saying that because his power involves freezing, all of his attacks are of same level as everything comes down to freezing his opponents in the end. Putting his hands in pockets and attacking him without moving an inch holds grater significance than what you actually think.
No it doesn't. When has Kuzan's powers EVER been directly intertwined with the amount of physical effort he has displayed? It never has. Kuzan's power is almost completely mentally based: He mentally creates and controls how powerful the burst of ice he's creating is, and the ONLY time he uses gestures or his body is if he's directing the ice towards a particular target. This fits into Kuzan's theme of laziness. The most Kuzan has ever been shown doing while attacking or using ice is holding his arms out in the particular direction he wants the ice to go. Hell, his greatest on-screen feats of freezing, which were freezing the tidal waves and freezing miles upon miles of ocean, Kuzan literally just dipped his hand into the water and held out his arms to the side.
When launching Pheasant Beak at Ace, he literally pointed his arm towards Ace and shot his ice using mental commands and pointing his arms to aim. When freezing the likes of the Strawhats or Jozu, he literally just tapped them. Against mother****ing Whitebeard, Kuzan's first attack was done by crossing his arms and then his follow-up Partisan was done in the exact same manner. His attacks against the World's Strongest Man were done both times by crossing his arms, and we're gonna assume that because Kuzan needs to throw punches kicks and grunt with effort and have veins bulging to take it he's being serious and isn't just throwing casual attacks? Hell no.
It means that he doesn't need to put much effort to be able to stop Doflamingo. Can he do the same to Kizaru? Rayleigh? Or any top rater fighter for that matter?
He failed to freeze Jozu when they're fighting head on while trying to kill each other if needed which would make Doflamingo's case much worse as he was frozen even when he's well aware of his own condition.
Which is exactly why Kuzan's ice on Doflamingo could very well be a serious attack that you're underrating.
The attack used on Jozu was stronger as Kuzan was going for kill. Jozu was frozen to bone when it was explicitly stated that Doflamingo's insides weren't frozen.
Was it stated that Jozu was frozen to the bone? No. That's conjecture you just pulled out of thin air to fit your narrative.
You can't seriously expect Doflamingo to toll an attack that even Jozu couldn't escape unless you put Doflamingo on a whole new level than Jozu which is ridiculous.
Not when the feats support it. Doflamingo was able to restrain Jozu and busted out of a stronger version of the attack that defeated Jozu, even while both men's attention weren't directed towards Kuzan as he launched the attack. We know the attack is stronger because the amount of ice created was larger in scale. So far, Kuzan's ice attacks have all been stronger with the scale of the attack he's using: The stronger the attack, the larger the scale. That's why the amount of ice surrounding Whitebeard was greater than the amount of ice surrounding Doffy and Jozu.
He used surroundings as a medium to freeze Mingo instead of directly touching him or making contact with him using Ice hence the surrounding area was effected. In fact the attack he used to freeze Whitebeard had even lesser AOE than the one he used on Doflamingo.
Because Kuzan has never shown finding ways to isolate what he's freezing at a distance. Oh wait. He has. When he froze Whitebeard, he was able to surround Whitebeard with ice without freezing the surroundings as a medium[
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]
Again when freezing the tidal waves, he was able to create a "trail" of ice through the air to freeze the waves without freezing the surroundings as well.[
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]Note that the trial method was also used with Whitebeard. So no, Kuzan freezing the surrounding terrain was not done because he was too far to establish contact.
Also, while the area of effect when freezing Doffy was indeed larger than when freezing Whitebeard, this is rendered nil by the fact that the amount of ice on Doffy was a shell-like coating on his skin, while Whitebeard was frozen inside of a gigantic cube of ice. Much more ice was on Whitebeard than on Doffy, making the former stronger than the latter. The case with Doffy and Jozu, however, has validation with area of effect because both were covered in merely a shell-like coating, with the difference being in the area of effect.
Zoro was caught by surprise; He was attacked before he could realize by whom he's being blocked unlike Doflamingo who has complete knowledge on Kuzan and knows that he'll be attacked if he were to attack Smoker.
Not true. Zoro explicitly looks up and recognizes that Fujitora has blocked him and has a flashback of him a moment before the gravity activates
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Noting implies that he's aware of Fujitora's presence, for all we know he was just confident about countering Zoro's attack. No one said that Zoro's Doflamingo level. The point is that he didn't do anything better than Zoro against another admiral.Therefore, he's by no means is on the same level as Admirals or anywhere closer to it.
Considering the fact that with both Luffy and even Sanji, Doflamingo threw up his guard before their attacks even got close, the fact that Doffy doesn't even move to acknowledge Zoro knows he knew that he wouldn't need to counter Zoro's attack, which he could only know if he knew Fujitora was about to block it. My point in mentioning this isn't to say Zoro is inferior to Doffy, but that his portrayal of such is similar to Sanji's, with the particular actions demonstrating that neither are even on Doffy's level; i.e., similar parallels between them.
Luffy has no first mate. When the topic of first mate came up, Luffy dismissed the idea entirely. Luffy doesn't want, need or care for having a first mate, so the notion that he does or will is something that has been purely fabricated by Zoro's fanbase thus far.
I actually kinda understand where you're coming from. Ryuuma doesn't actually have any feats that are super impressive, whereas Absalom doesn't. Ryuuma beat Brook, but even his strikes kinda just blew holes in the walls, which we could see since Arlong. Ryuuma didn't really push Zoro that hard since he didn't use nearly as many techniques as he did against Kaku, so Ryuuma isn't really that impressive, we just kinda accept that he's supposed to be stronger than Absa since he's Zoro's opponent. But since that's the same arc where Oda stopped using the M3-Villain-hierarchy formula, I am actually rethinking my earlier statement and taking "Ryuuma>Absa" with a grain of salt.
I actually kinda understand where you're coming from. Ryuuma doesn't actually have any feats that are super impressive, whereas Absalom doesn't. Ryuuma beat Brook, but even his strikes kinda just blew holes in the walls, which we could see since Arlong. Ryuuma didn't really push Zoro that hard since he didn't use nearly as many techniques as he did against Kaku, so Ryuuma isn't really that impressive, we just kinda accept that he's supposed to be stronger than Absa since he's Zoro's opponent. But since that's the same arc where Oda stopped using the M3-Villain-hierarchy formula, I am actually rethinking my earlier statement and taking "Ryuuma>Absa" with a grain of salt.
