[Discussion] Scratch Sanji from The Monster Trio

[A v i]

It wasn't hyping though. Sanji ran through and commented "What the hell kind of battle happened here?" It's all about the kind of fighting you use. If your fighting style revolves around projectiles, it'll destroy the environment far more than someone who focuses on close combat.

Of course being around that fight gave them chills: There was crossfire that they could get caught in. No such thing happened with Sanji and Jabra. The closest was Jabra's Rankyaku variants, which he didn't use nearly as much as close combat. It had everything to do with the type of fight it was.

Luffy destroying the town to beat Joker was because Luffy was launching Doflamingo around, and Doflamingo was directly transforming and using the environment. Luffy vs Doflamingo is a special case because they were brawling and throwing each other all over the place. A fight with Sanji wouldn't be like that anyways because Sanji's attacks are precise and direct, never involving launching projectiles and barely involving launching each other.

With fights involving Luffy, Luffy just throws his strength out in a general, brutish manner, which causes collateral damage to the environment. Sanji's fighting style is very precise and directed, he isn't just throwing haymakers wildly to destroy everything in general.

Shiki vs Garp and Sengoku caused such damage because Shiki's fighting style, like Doflamingo, involves manipulating the environment and throwing things about; just like Kaku vs Zoro, projectiles were heavily involved.

Akainu vs Aokiji also involves directly affecting the surrounding environment.

A fight like Sanji vs Jabra wouldn't affect the environment that much because of the style of the fight, not because of the strength of its combatants.

Why is that not hype? Why'd he even bother using a panel dedicated to it when it serves no purpose? As I said it's not about fighting style. People of OP or rather Oda uses after effects of a battle to hype the characters. He almost and always specifically mentions the level of destruction caused as a hype whenever he mentions said battles. Likewise he used Sanji to hype Zoro's battle. Hell even we scale characters strength based on the level of destruction they can cause regardless of whether if he's a brawler or not.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Why is that not hype? Why'd he even bother using a panel dedicated to it when it serves no purpose? As I said it's not about fighting style. People of OP or rather Oda uses after effects of a battle to hype the characters. He almost and always specifically mentions the level of destruction caused as a hype whenever he mentions said battles. Likewise he used Sanji to hype Zoro's battle. Hell even we scale characters strength based on the level of destruction they can cause regardless of whether if he's a brawler or not.

The purpose was it's a story and Sanji is supposed to be a "real person" and any real person would wonder what happened that caused the area to be torn up.

It's only hype if you consider weird/strange to be hyping, which I do not. It had nothing to do with "Man, how strong must these guys have been," it was "What actions were they doing that led to this?"

@Bold: Which is a stupid measure of strength.

 

[A v i]

The purpose was it's a story and Sanji is supposed to be a "real person" and any real person would wonder what happened that caused the area to be torn up.

It's only hype if you consider weird/strange to be hyping, which I do not. It had nothing to do with "Man, how strong must these guys have been," it was "What actions were they doing that led to this?"

@Bold: Which is a stupid measure of strength.

Like we don't know that Sanji's a real person unless he wonders about Zoro's battle. Don't use lame excuses mate. I just showed you that Oda always uses level of destruction as a hype tool. It wan't exclusive for Zoro to think that his case is different. It's was done on numerous occasions. The stronger the opponents are the more destruction they'd cause. Why is that Lucci and Luffy caused more destruction than Zoro and Kaku despite them using same kind of fighting style as Jyabra and Sanji?

May be but we still use it to scale strength.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Like we don't know that Sanji's a real person unless he wonders about Zoro's battle. Don't use lame excuses mate. I just showed you that Oda always uses level of destruction as a hype tool. It wan't exclusive for Zoro to think that his case is different. It's was done on numerous occasions. The stronger the opponents are the more destruction they'd cause. Why is that Lucci and Luffy caused more destruction than Zoro and Kaku despite them using same kind of fighting style as Jyabra and Sanji?

May be but we still use it to scale strength.

Eh, if you wanna take "This is weird" as hype, go ahead.

Also, like Kaku and Zoro, Lucci was regularly using projectiles and Luffy's Gear 3 limbs were causing collateral damage to the area. The fight was closer to being the style of Zoro vs Kaku than Sanji vs Jabra. Note that when Luffy wasn't using giant limbs and Lucci wasn't using projectiles, the most damage they were doing was breaking some boxes that were around.

 

[Nox]

The moment Oda introduced Supernovas, I considered it the final nail in the coffin in regards to Sanjis fate with his compatriots. It is foolish to consider Sanji a non M3 member for the simple fact his status as one of the 3 strongest in SH is not in jeopardy. However, to think he is in the same leagues as the other 2 is equally ridiculous. For one the nature of Zoro and Luffy's aspirations is hinged heavily on strength. Mihawk had already warned Luffy his dream was the hardest of the lot. DCJ asked him is he was prepared to surpass Yonko & Admirals let's not forget his fellow Supernova. PK and WSS are both measured by degree of surpassing the overall power of candidates in said groups. Further proof can be seen in the fact that all the movers, trend setter and holders of the best feats in the next generation are all Supernova. Zoro had always been good in terms of physical gifts but he lacked technique that is which Mihawk asked him to seek, that is what Kuina had over him. Over the journey we saw him acquire new skills little by little & now he got trained by the very best. Of all the trainings by M3 none took place in a more suitable environment.

 

[Punk Hazard]

For one the nature of Zoro and Luffy's aspirations is hinged heavily on strength.

Yeah and? That's not stopping Sanji from training just as hard as Luffy and Zoro if he wants to.

 

[Nox]

Yeah and? That's not stopping Sanji from training just as hard as Luffy and Zoro if he wants to.

There are two routes to ranking up. Training and battle. The SH took a 2 year gap in order to perfect their craft and be prepared for the adversities of the GL. The training period is well and truly over for the near future and now comes the test of aptitude. You are surely no stranger to OP and you know battles are gauged in the basis of strength vs strength. Luffy fights the strongest who often is a captain 2X the strength of his surbodinates. Zoro is usually next in line & Sanji hence forth. Now not only has the quality of training that Zoro and Luffy received been from veteran but also the are contending with absolute monsters who engage them to grow even greater. Sanji can train as much as hard as them to (which is weird considering this has never has) but this will not change the notion of his growth cap. Zoro and Luffy have higher ceilings compared to him. Listen I am not saying he is ass but rather comparatively speaking Luffy and by extension Zoro will be significantly better.

EDIT: Just a disclaimer there are no members of M3 who are equal so no to Luffy = Zoro or Zoro = Sanji etc.

 

[Punk Hazard]

There are two routes to ranking up. Training and battle. The SH took a 2 year gap in order to perfect their craft and be prepared for the adversities of the GL. The training period is well and truly over for the near future and now comes the test of aptitude. You are surely no stranger to OP and you know battles are gauged in the basis of strength vs strength. Luffy fights the strongest who often is a captain 2X the strength of his surbodinates. Zoro is usually next in line & Sanji hence forth. Now not only has the quality of training that Zoro and Luffy received been from veteran but also the are contending with absolute monsters who engage them to grow even greater. Sanji can train as much as hard as them to (which is weird considering this has never has) but this will not change the notion of his growth cap. Zoro and Luffy have higher ceilings compared to him. Listen I am not saying he is ass but rather comparatively speaking Luffy and by extension Zoro will be significantly better.

That pattern of fighting, where Luffy fights the strongest, Zoro second strongest, Sanji third strongest, hasn't happened since Enie's Lobby.

Secondly, you have no notion of how much Sanji trains. He's a martial artist he just gets stronger and his skills always remain up to par with the last time he's used them. That doesn't happen without training and practice. Just because Zoro is the only that had a single page of training doesn't mean they others in the M3 aren't training too.

As for the goals, just because your goal is directly related to strength doesn't mean you're gonna be stronger than someone whose isn't. Luffy's goal himself is to have the best adventure he possibly can, placing the adventure on higher importance than actually becoming Pirate King. Yet, this won't stop him. Gaps chance and fluctuate all the time. Sure, Zoro will always be stronger, but to say he's gonna be significantly better than Sanji always is baseless, especially since Zoro hasn't shown anything since the timeskip has started to suggest this.

 

[A v i]

That pattern of fighting, where Luffy fights the strongest, Zoro second strongest, Sanji third strongest, hasn't happened since Enie's Lobby.

Secondly, you have no notion of how much Sanji trains. He's a martial artist he just gets stronger and his skills always remain up to par with the last time he's used them. That doesn't happen without training and practice. Just because Zoro is the only that had a single page of training doesn't mean they others in the M3 aren't training too.

As for the goals, just because your goal is directly related to strength doesn't mean you're gonna be stronger than someone whose isn't. Luffy's goal himself is to have the best adventure he possibly can, placing the adventure on higher importance than actually becoming Pirate King. Yet, this won't stop him. Gaps chance and fluctuate all the time. Sure, Zoro will always be stronger, but to say he's gonna be significantly better than Sanji always is baseless, especially since Zoro hasn't shown anything since the timeskip has started to suggest this.

What has Sanji done to put him near Zoro?

 

[Punk Hazard]

What has Sanji done to put him near Zoro?

Zoro's greatest feat is cutting Pica, which Sanji has come near by setting the puffer Fish on fire.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

The moment Oda introduced Supernovas, I considered it the final nail in the coffin in regards to Sanjis fate with his compatriots. It is foolish to consider Sanji a non M3 member for the simple fact his status as one of the 3 strongest in SH is not in jeopardy. However, to think he is in the same leagues as the other 2 is equally ridiculous. For one the nature of Zoro and Luffy's aspirations is hinged heavily on strength. Mihawk had already warned Luffy his dream was the hardest of the lot. DCJ asked him is he was prepared to surpass Yonko & Admirals let's not forget his fellow Supernova. PK and WSS are both measured by degree of surpassing the overall power of candidates in said groups. Further proof can be seen in the fact that all the movers, trend setter and holders of the best feats in the next generation are all Supernova. Zoro had always been good in terms of physical gifts but he lacked technique that is which Mihawk asked him to seek, that is what Kuina had over him. Over the journey we saw him acquire new skills little by little & now he got trained by the very best. Of all the trainings by M3 none took place in a more suitable environment.

Why do people always mention ambitions once a strength argument is brought over? You do realize that whitebeard's dream was to have a family and so was not relating to combat yet he was the strongest, right? Plus,why are you mentioning the supernova when sanji and by feats can beat all of them side from the obvious 2 in his crew and law?

 

[lelerskates]

Ivankov is just as much a legend as Mihawk and Rayleigh

LOL When I read that you lost all credibility. gtfo

 

[lelerskates]

Zoro's greatest feat is cutting Pica, which Sanji has come near by setting the puffer Fish on fire.

That puffer fish isn't nearly as big a pika... Try again. And it's pretty simple minded to consider only offense and not defense- and because of that Zoro is a tier above Sanji.

 

[marijuanna]

What has Sanji done to put him near Zoro?

Jesus, you guys only mesure a character's worth by physical strenght and the ability to blow stuff up at a distance. Head on, Zoro is probably stronger than Sanji, because he is more powerful. But Sanji is way smarter, and his speed/mobility is top knot, the guy can fly for god's sake. Doflamingo himself said there are a number of ways to beat a enemy that is more powerful than you. I say there is no way to know who wins a fight in a open environment, Sanji could backstab Zoro good. They don't each have a specialty haki for nothing.

 

[Punk Hazard]

That puffer fish isn't nearly as big a pika... Try again. And it's pretty simple minded to consider only offense and not defense- and because of that Zoro is a tier above Sanji.

The puffer was wider than Pica.

Also, your attack being bigger=/=stronger. Let's not forget Sanji's flames were also internal, and could range as wide as the target is.

A direct kick from Sanji can hurt just as much as a wide-ranged slash from Zoro.

Zoro still hasn't shown anything that puts him in a different tier than Sanji like people suggest.

 

[Bogard]

The moment Oda introduced Supernovas, I considered it the final nail in the coffin in regards to Sanjis fate with his compatriots. It is foolish to consider Sanji a non M3 member for the simple fact his status as one of the 3 strongest in SH is not in jeopardy. However, to think he is in the same leagues as the other 2 is equally ridiculous. For one the nature of Zoro and Luffy's aspirations is hinged heavily on strength. Mihawk had already warned Luffy his dream was the hardest of the lot. DCJ asked him is he was prepared to surpass Yonko & Admirals let's not forget his fellow Supernova. PK and WSS are both measured by degree of surpassing the overall power of candidates in said groups. Further proof can be seen in the fact that all the movers, trend setter and holders of the best feats in the next generation are all Supernova. Zoro had always been good in terms of physical gifts but he lacked technique that is which Mihawk asked him to seek, that is what Kuina had over him. Over the journey we saw him acquire new skills little by little & now he got trained by the very best. Of all the trainings by M3 none took place in a more suitable environment.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Punk Hazard]

Why do people always mention ambitions once a strength argument is brought over? You do realize that whitebeard's dream was to have a family and so was not relating to combat yet he was the strongest, right? Plus,why are you mentioning the supernova when sanji and by feats can beats all of them side from the obvious 2 in his crew and law?

You know, this should put an end to that stupid argument, but you know it won't in this place /:

 

[Bogard]

I've yet to see Sanji actually defeating someone 1 on 1 since the timeskip started before actually discussing around his power standing comparatively to the other 2monsters

 

[Venomous Cobra]

That puffer fish isn't nearly as big a pika... Try again. And it's pretty simple minded to consider only offense and not defense- and because of that Zoro is a tier above Sanji.

Wadatsumi is compared to a mountain, that's big enough.

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[Punk Hazard]

I've yet to see Sanji actually defeating someone 1 on 1 since the timeskip started before actually discussing around his power standing comparatively to the other 2monsters

Sanji's body was damaged while he was fighting Vergo, so it's not a proper gauge of his strength or capabilities.

Against Doflamingo, Sanji got his ass handed to him, and Zoro got the same treatment when he went up against someone on a similar level.

On Fishman Island, Sanji didn't need Jinbei to finish off Wada. Jinbei just launched him into the air, Sanji could have just dive-bombed him.