NB's View: Religion

[ComplexCity]

This...doesn't make any sense...I said the bible can do good metaphorically and allegorically. As in, a fictional story with fictional characters, including God, that delivers a message...the messages in the Bible(such as not harming others, living in peace, not sacrificing your life for a chase of riches) can be beneficial

Nah this what you said

First off, that's actually not true. I view the manipulation of religious texts as bad, but I think religious texts in themselves can do a lot of good. They can actually be morally educational for children, and even adults, when taken as metaphorical and allegorical. Don't be so presumptuous.

John 1:1King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

So how can you find the wisdom of a supreme being that you detest to be good if you think it's method about going about some of the things you stand for to be bad?


James 1:17King James Version (KJV)

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


The word (aka the law) which is good comes from God. This means either you accept everything to be good or God to be a prick. There is no in between

I said the Bible creates a discrepancy, and that it's a contradiction in the scripture. I already linked you to 101 contradictions in the bible, showing it's fully possible for it to contain one more

Nah, if you read and understood the bible, then you would know that it doesn't it's because you lack the wisdom to comprehend the bible. I haven't had time to take a look, but don't worry I will

...Right?

And of course you are referring to the "other" translations, which again, shows your ignorance of the bible. But maybe I am being presumptuous again, mind elucidating what you're referring to?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Nah this what you said



John 1:1King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

So how can you find the wisdom of a supreme being that you detest to be good if you think it's method about going about some of the things you stand for to be bad?


James 1:17King James Version (KJV)

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


The word (aka the law) which is good comes from God. This means either you accept everything to be good or God to be a prick. There is no in between

Word of God crap only applies if I view God as a real being, which I do not. Read the very next sentence of the post you quoted.

Nah, if you read and understood the bible, then you would know that it doesn't it's because you lack the wisdom to comprehend the bible. I haven't had time to take a look, but don't worry I will

Actually read the contradictions, and you'll see it has nothing to do with understanding the Bible.

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Here's a few excerpts for you
1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)
2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?

Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
Three (I Chronicles 21:12)
5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

Nothing to do with interpretation or understanding, just flat-out facts that contradict each other.

And of course you are referring to the "other" translations, which again, shows your ignorance of the bible. But maybe I am being presumptuous again, mind elucidating what you're referring to?

I actually pointed out the reasons why the differences in translation are negligible.

The translation you provided used the words power, rulers, and ordain, which also mean the words my translation used, being authority, governing leaders, and established.

 

[ComplexCity]

Word of God crap only applies if I view God as a real being, which I do not. Read the very next sentence of the post you quoted.

I read the sentence and it's entirety. Thing about Christianity is that it's either black or white. I'm quoting where you ignorantly compared Christianity to crime which was a horrible analogy regardless of the reason. Then I actually replied to the one guy saying you made the comparison due to your interpretation to what you feel is wrong in the bible (even though it says otherwise). To which you replied that you beleived that the words and values that come from God to be good. Then said you didn't believe in God which means you don't beleive in the good teachings of God because you feel he's a prick. You're contradicting yourself left and right and not even realizing it

Actually read the contradictions, and you'll see it has nothing to do with understanding the Bible.

You must be registered for see links

Here's a few excerpts for you
1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)
2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?

Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)
4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
Three (I Chronicles 21:12)
5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

Nothing to do with interpretation or understanding, just flat-out facts that contradict each other

Too bad the bible is not the only book that refers to Christianty. The good thing about it though is that it says

2 Timothy 3:16-17King James Version (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

It also states in the bible that if you find something in the bible to be false, then do your research to see if it's true or not (can't find the verse right now since I'm at work). I can gurantee 100% that you have not done so. But as unbeliever I'm not surprised

I actually pointed out the reasons why the differences in translation are negligible.

The translation you provided used the words power, rulers, and ordain, which also mean the words my translation used, being authority, governing leaders, and established.

And I was right, glad to know I can read you like a book. That's not what I was referring to, not only that, the translations are not neligble for reasons in my next post I will explain later. There are other books in reference to Christianty that support or disprove (some of) the manipulated scripts of the bible



Hol up, didn't I say I wasn't debating religion with you anymore lol? Riker you is a sneaky rabbit

Next post will be my last

 

[Forest]

My view on it is best summed up by this :

Spoiler

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[Punk Hazard]

I read the sentence and it's entirety. Thing about Christianity is that it's either black or white.

This is only if you look at the Bible from a religious perspective and you believe them to be actual people, beings, and events that have existed. I am looking at the bible from the perspective of an atheist, so it's fiction to me. I said that the bible's underlying messages and morals can be good, meaning the bible is useful as an allegory. You know what an allegory is?

To me, God and the bible is no different than the character of Naruto and the series. Just like Naruto, I can find distaste in some of the characteristics of the character of God while appreciating what the message behind the series.

I'm quoting where you ignorantly compared Christianity to crime which was a horrible analogy regardless of the reason.

It wasn't a comparison between crime and Christianity. It was taking logic he applied to Christianity and applying it to another concept to show the flaw in the logic. The statement I made there wasn't on religion or crime, it was on a particular logic; the conclusion was independent from both Christianity and crime, it pertains to the logic used. He could have used the logic on anything else, and I'd have used the same argument so long as the logic was consistent.

Then I actually replied to the one guy saying you made the comparison due to your interpretation to what you feel is wrong in the bible (even though it says otherwise). To which you replied that you beleived that the words and values that come from God to be good. Then said you didn't believe in God which means you don't beleive in the good teachings of God because you feel he's a prick. You're contradicting yourself left and right and not even realizing it

Except I don't believe they come from God. I believe the message behind the bible came from men and God is simply a fictional character in their narrative. The same way the Naruto narrative was written by a man, and through the character of Madara, he conveyed the message that where this is peace, there will always be conflict. Finding value in that message doesn't mean I can't think that Madara's personality was douchey or flawed.

It's the same as the way I view God. The men who orchestrated the Bible were able to convey a message through characters and a narrative, one of which I happen to dislike because of his personality.

Too bad the bible is not the only book that refers to Christianty. The good thing about it though is that it says

2 Timothy 3:16-17King James Version (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

It also states in the bible that if you find something in the bible to be false, then do your research to see if it's true or not (can't find the verse right now since I'm at work). I can gurantee 100% that you have not done so. But as unbeliever I'm not surprised



And I was right, glad to know I can read you like a book. That's not what I was referring to, not only that, the translations are not neligble for reasons in my next post I will explain later. There are other books in reference to Christianty that support or disprove (some of) the manipulated scripts of the bible

The bolded pretty much solidifies the reason I brought up the scriptures in the first place: to show flaws in the Bible.

Hol up, didn't I say I wasn't debating religion with you anymore lol? Riker you is a sneaky rabbit

Next post will be my last

Wah-wah.

 

[ComplexCity]

This is only if you look at the Bible from a religious perspective and you believe them to be actual people, beings, and events that have existed. I am looking at the bible from the perspective of an atheist, so it's fiction to me.

What kind of stupid logic......
That's like me only eating meat looking at a vegan and applying my own perspective on why they don't eat meat while ignoring their reasoning. That's like me being a misogynist drawing my perspective of feminism. That's like me being a racist and drawing my own perspective on BLM

I said that the bible's underlying messages and morals can be good, meaning the bible is useful as an allegory. You know what an allegory is?

And you're right they are good, because that's where they came from. Unless you can prove to me that we were just born with the inate ability to just do good things

To me, God and the bible is no different than the character of Naruto and the series. Just like Naruto, I can find distaste in some of the characteristics of the character of God while appreciating what the message behind the series.

That's good for you, glad God gave us free will

It wasn't a comparison between crime and Christianity. It was taking logic he applied to Christianity and applying it to another concept to show the flaw in the logic. The statement I made there wasn't on religion or crime, it was on a particular logic; the conclusion was independent from both Christianity and crime, it pertains to the logic used. He could have used the logic on anything else, and I'd have used the same argument so long as the logic was consistent.

Herp Derp, Hellen Keller strikes again :sdo:
You don't read not a lick you don't. I said regardless of the reason. I know what you were talking about. The comparison doesn't work because not only don't you believe in the bible, you believe some stuff in there to be wrong (morally) when it's not. The logic behind your statement was flawed from the get go and based soley on your interpretation of the bible. Had the bible been in the same category as crime (based on your analogy about ignoring the bad things), then it would work, however, for us people who follow it, it doesn't. The law recognizes all crime as being bad regardless of the reasoning based on the collective opinions of those in power. The same thing is not the case for Christianity because we do not believe God's works to be in the same category as crime. Nice try tho

Except I don't believe they come from God. I believe the message behind the bible came from men and God is simply a fictional character in their narrative. The same way the Naruto narrative was written by a man, and through the character of Madara, he conveyed the message that where this is peace, there will always be conflict. Finding value in that message doesn't mean I can't think that Madara's personality was douchey or flawed.

Then why are we having this discussion? You say you understand the bible but quote the above when I've just shown you biblical evidence of such events occuring, yet you still want to interpret the bible the way you want to. This is why I will waste no more time with you because you think you know the bible when it's clear as day you know nothing

It's the same as the way I view God. The men who orchestrated the Bible were able to convey a message through characters and a narrative, one of which I happen to dislike because of his personality.

Again, Christianity is black or white. It doesn't matter how you interpret it

The bolded pretty much solidifies the reason I brought up the scriptures in the first place: to show flaws in the Bible.

Which is why I told you that the bible is not the only source for Christianity and to use the King James Version, but you insist that the difference between the many misleading translations are irrelevant... Just like if a scientist or even a peer makes a claim that is untrue or false, you do research in different sources to see if it is true or not. I'm pretty sure you know that the bible was altered pretty heavily coming down the line

 

[Dark Sonic]

I'm sorry Complex but when you say that you are done replying, this is what I think when you respond again.

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[Punk Hazard]

What kind of stupid logic......
That's like me only eating meat looking at a vegan and applying my own perspective on why they don't eat meat while ignoring their reasoning.

No, it's not.

That's like me being a misogynist drawing my perspective of feminism. That's like me being a racist and drawing my own perspective on BLM

You do realize this does happen...it's called a misogynist having a negative opinion of feminism and a racist having a negative opinion on BLM...if a racist goes "BLM is stupid," that's them having their own perspective on BLM...

And you're right they are good, because that's where they came from. Unless you can prove to me that we were just born with the inate ability to just do good things

Do...you not know what empathy is?

That's good for you, glad God gave us free will

O...kay?

Herp Derp, Hellen Keller strikes again :bdpf:
You don't read not a lick you don't. I said regardless of the reason.

That's not how it works. You can say it's stupid regardless of the reason, that doesn't mean it is. You dismissing the reason doesn't mean it isn't valid.

I know what you were talking about.

No you didn't.

The comparison doesn't work because not only don't you believe in the bible, you believe some stuff in there to be wrong when it's not

Mfw it wasn't a comparison

The logic behind your statement was flawed from the get go and based soley on your interpretation of the bible

The statement was independent on my viewpoint on the Bible.

Had the bible been in the same category as crime (based on your analogy about ignoring the bad things).

Has nothing to do with what categories the things are in. He said if you ignore the bad aspects of something, then it is good. I was addressing that logic. Not Christianity itself.

Then why are we having this discussion? You say you understand the bible but quote the above when I've just shown you biblical evidence of such events occuring, yet you still want to interpret the bible the way you want to. This is why I will waste no more time with you because you think you know the bible when it's clear as day you know nothing

Because, according to you, you have to like all the characters in a work of fiction to agree with its message.

Again, Christianity is black and white. It doesn't matter how you interpret it

No.

Which is why I told you that the bible is not the only source for Christianity and to use the King James Version, but you insist that the difference between the many misleading translations are irrelevant...

I said the difference between the translations of the specific text being used is irrelevant because the words in the translation I was using conveyed the same meaning as the words in the one you were using.

 

[ComplexCity]

No, it's not.

It most definitely is

You do realize this does happen...it's called a misogynist having a negative opinion of feminism and a racist having a negative opinion on BLM...if a racist goes "BLM is stupid," that's them having their own perspective on BLM...

If I draw a perspective on why black people shouldn't have the same rights as white people, then it will be flawed because I don't share the same viewpoint AND knowledge and merely just forming opinions based off my ignorance. Same goes for the ohter point.

Do...you not know what empathy is?

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand and my point. Where do morals come from if the bible is fiction? Since it seems to just always been in us to do what is right

That's not how it works. You can say it's stupid regardless of the reason, that doesn't mean it is. You dismissing the reason doesn't mean it isn't valid.

Oh but it is. Because it's based on your interpretation that isn't a fact. Crime is excepted to be wrong (fact). Christianity to us has no negative aspects. I'm not defending what he said since I'm at dissonance with his response. However, I am merely disagreeing with your logic

No you didn't.

I did

Mfw it wasn't a comparison

It's not a comparison yet you're presuming the negative aspects of crime and Christianty resulting in your response that said

Never said religion was bad. Said the ideology is bad, the ideology being ignoring all the things that makes something bad to label it good.

Bruh, clear as day it was comparison between the negative aspects of the two to support why the ideology doesn't work, when there is nothing wrong with Christianity in the first place. If you are suggesting that we look at the negative aspects of Christianity and crime to see how they are similar in regards to that ideology, then it is a comparison


comparison
noun com·par·i·son \kəm-ˈper-ə-sən, -ˈpa-rə-\
Simple Definition of comparison

: the act of looking at things to see how they are similar or different

: the act of suggesting that two or more things are similar or in the same category

The statement was independent on my viewpoint on the Bible.

Which is flawed and ignorant

Has nothing to do with what categories the things are in. He said if you ignore the bad aspects of something, then it is good. I was addressing that logic. Not Christianity itself

Based on what you believe to be true, this isn't true for everything. Like someone told you before, you should have used a different example because Christianity doesn't fit that. Explained above

Because, according to you, you have to like all the characters in a work of fiction to agree with its message

If only I said that. Seems like you're mish-mashing what I'm saying. Gonna snip within my responses to you

snip

snip.

 

[Multiply]

Ya'll always going at each other. Give it a rest.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Ya'll always going at each other. Give it a rest.

It's merely a conversation between best friends. *_*

 

[Bored38]

My view on it is best summed up by this :

Spoiler

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This says it well ^^

And,that conscious intelligent energy "the creator" is the one responsible for DNA coding in the same way a computer programmer, creates a computer program. Compare it to someone looking at a computer the "body" and their just looking at the parts. The physical parts of a computer are alot simpler and easier to understand than the computer program "the information in DNA" which is where the real understanding of the computer and what it does is realized.

 

[ComplexCity]

It's merely a conversation between best friends. *_*

Friends? Wouldn't go that far. I don't have a problem with people on here though. We're both just opinionated

 

[Punk Hazard]

It most definitely is

Not really.

If I draw a perspective on why black people shouldn't have the same rights as white people, then it will be flawed because I don't share the same viewpoint AND knowledge and merely just forming opinions based off my ignorance. Same goes for the ohter point.

Ohhh, I see. You're once again speaking on the basis that people are atheists because they don't understand the Bible and are ignorant on it. Since your bias knows no ends, there's no point in continuing this conversation, as you let yourself remain in a position where you can't actually have this conversation.

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand and my point. Where do morals come from if the bible is fiction? Since it seems to just always been in us to do what is right

Mankind. That's what being intelligent does.

Oh but it is. Because it's based on your interpretation that isn't a fact. Crime is excepted to be wrong (fact). Christianity to us has no negative aspects. I'm not defending what he said since I'm at dissonance with his response. However, I am merely disagreeing with your logic

Bold is arguable, underlined is key. To you. And the assumption that Christians are correct simply because you're a Christian is biased.

It's not a comparison yet you're presuming the negative aspects of crime and Christianty resulting in your response that said

Bruh, clear as day it was comparison between the negative aspects of the two to support why the ideology doesn't work, when there is nothing wrong with Christianity in the first place. If you are suggesting that we look at the negative aspects of Christianity and crime to see how they are similar in regards to that ideology, then it is a comparison


comparison
noun com·par·i·son \kəm-ˈper-ə-sən, -ˈpa-rə-\
Simple Definition of comparison

: the act of looking at things to see how they are similar or different

: the act of suggesting that two or more things are similar or in the same category

I never pointed out the differences or similarities between crimes and Christianity.

Which is flawed and ignorant

Lol what?

Based on what you believe to be true, this isn't true for everything. Like someone told you before, you should have used a different example because Christianity doesn't fit that. Explained above

It had nothing to do with my views of Christianity.

If only I said that. Seems like you're mish-mashing what I'm saying. Gonna snip within my responses to you

Except that is what you did. I said I didn't like the characteristics of God, and you said that means I can't like the message of the bible.

 

[ComplexCity]

Ohhh, I see. You're once again speaking on the basis that people are atheists because they don't understand the Bible and are ignorant on it. Since your bias knows no ends, there's no point in continuing this conversation, as you let yourself remain in a position where you can't actually have this conversation

It's bias when Atheist don't believe in Christianity? It's it bias for a racist when a racist can't understand and doesn't want to accept why black people shouldn't be able have the same rights?

Mankind. That's what being intelligent does

Really Dr. Riker, can you prove this? Had the same debate with Inanimated who failed to back his conjecture, hopefully you can step up to the plate. I'd like to see scientific evidence as well

Bold is arguable, underlined is key. To you. And the assumption that Christians are correct simply because you're a Christian is biased.

Which is why if you stop acting like Hellen Keller, you can see why in previous responses I said based off your interpretation

I never pointed out the differences or similarities between crimes and Christianity.

You said it was ignorant to have that ideology mentioned before because we shouldn't be ignoring the negative aspects of crime and christianity which mean you would know or look at the negative aspects of the two to come to that conclusion, or are we going to ignore dictionary definitions again?

snip

snip

snip.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It's bias when Atheist don't believe in Christianity?

Bias would be saying Christianity has no redeeming factors simply because I don't believe in it.

Really Dr. Riker, can you prove this? Had the same debate with Inanimated who failed to back his conjecture, hopefully you can step up to the plate. I'd like to see scientific evidence as well

And you have proof that it is not? Also, the fact that most animals lack the same morals as humans and the same intelligence as humans suggests that intelligence is the key to morality.

Which is why if you stop acting like Hellen Keller, you can see why in previous responses I said based off your interpretation

Except my views on Christianity was irrelevant to pointing out the flaw in that reasoning because it was all about the reasoning, not Christianity.

You said it was ignorant to have that ideology mentioned before because we shouldn't be ignoring the negative aspects of crime and christianity which mean you would know or look at the negative aspects of the two to come to that conclusion, or are we going to ignore dictionary definitions again?

Nope. I said going "XYZ is good because ignoring all the bad aspects leaves only good aspects" is a faulty premise.

 

[ComplexCity]

Bias would be saying Christianity has no redeeming factors simply because I don't believe in it.

Good thing being bias is open for subjectivity

And you have proof that it is not? Also, the fact that most animals lack the same morals as humans and the same intelligence as humans suggests that intelligence is the key to morality

Mankind. That's what being intelligent does

I'm sorry, do you see my name in that claim? It's not my job to disprove it since I never said it couldn't result from it. I simply asked you for scientific evidence. I really don't care where you think it comes from, I just want scientific evidence that it comes from intelligence.

Except my views on Christianity was irrelevant to pointing out the flaw in that reasoning because it was all about the reasoning, not Christianity

Yet you stated that Christianity has things that were wrong based on your perspective and compared it the negative aspects of crime resulting in your ideology response. When it isn't a fact that there is anything wrong with Christianity. Which makes your point moot

Nope. I said going "XYZ is good because ignoring all the bad aspects leaves only good aspects" is a faulty premise.

If we look ignore that all bad aspects of crime, then that is an ignorant ideology

Just as if we ignore all the bad aspects of Christianity, then that too is an ignorant ideology

It's a comparison albeit indirectly

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yet you stated that Christianity has things that were wrong based on your perspective and compared it the negative aspects of crime when it isn't a fact that Christianity is wrong. Which makes your point moot

I never said there were negative aspects on Christianity while addressing that logic.

You said "XYZ is good because ignoring all the bad aspects leaves only good aspects" is a faulty premise when "ABC is good because ignoring all the bad aspects leaves only good aspects was mentioned" which means you were comparing.

That's not what I was doing at all. I was not comparing XYZ and ABC, I was saying "This logic that you tried to use on XYZ is faulty." ABC and XYZ remain independent from each other.

 

[ComplexCity]

I never said there were negative aspects on Christianity while addressing that logic

Can't even drink my Capri-Sun cause you taking all the straws :bdpf:

If you weren't addressing the negative aspects of Christianity what reason was there for you to bring up crime and it;s negative aspects then? Bold is fallcious as you agreed in this thread that God is a prick. But that's irrelevant.

That's not what I was doing at all. I was not comparing XYZ and ABC, I was saying "This logic that you tried to use on XYZ is faulty." ABC and XYZ remain independent from each other.

If we look ignore that all bad aspects of crime, then that is an ignorant ideology

Just as if we ignore all the bad aspects of Christianity, then that too is an ignorant ideology

It's a comparison albeit indirectly

Still waiting for that scientific evidence of your morality claim :bdpf:

 

[Punk Hazard]

Can't even drink my Capri-Sun cause you taking all the straws :bdpf:

If you weren't addressing the negative aspects of Christianity what reason was there for you to bring up crime and it;s negative aspects then?

To emphasize why his logic doesn't work for anything.

Bold is fallcious as you agreed in this thread that God is a prick. But that's irrelevant.

Read the entire quote. I'm not denying I said there are negative aspects to Christianity. I'm denying that I said so while addressing his logic.

Still waiting for that scientific evidence of your morality claim :bdpf:

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This creates a link between morality and the biological make-up of a person's brain.