NB Team Debate League Round 2: Turnt Up vs Senko

[Anub]

Let's not blow this out of proportion. Continue with judging and civilized discussions please. There's no need for further debates. Otherwise people will start being afraid of judging and we'll end up with no one left...

 

[kakashi owns all]

Lol it sounded like your last judging so we weren't sure

sure did, still i want to know what you wanted from anubs team

what did they need to say ?

 

[Zexion~]

It was debated

You cant do that.

can't do what? .. Both sides split up the teams in there first post .. so i was prepared to judge that .. and even though anub did not follow that its not like i invalidated his post.. i still considered his arguments and judged them . and some of them were really good .. I just pointed out that that he did not split up like his teammate had said they would .. Perhaps it attributed to the dis-organized look of the team .. but i still counted his arguments .

 

[Zexion~]

sure did, still i want to know what you wanted from anubs team

what did they need to say ?

/sigh .. i guess ill stoop to your level a little bit however dont expect much depth .. They needed to not rely on 64 palms as much as they did .. they needed to utilize moves like Morning Peacock and Hirudora more also they needed to use gai in general better then they did.. They needed to come up with a more plausable strategy because although some of the ones they came up with were good i could just not see them happening against pain .. and most of them were countered .. Plus a few other minor details .. but they did put up quite a good debate .. just not good enough to tip the edge and come out victors .. this is my look on the debate (minus a few things)

 

[Blaze Release]

When i saw the match up i laughed and in the end what we have all been saying is clear.
Yes this tournament is to show off the debaters, but at the end of the day you have to give the debaters some leg room.

There was hardly any leg room for those arguing for team gai.

Because of this i feel two things influence judges.

First is that when a match up is clear as day, as in one character is the heavy favourite to win, the group for this character has too much leg room its unfair which allows them to create easier posts/counters, while the other team struggles. Also sometimes i feel the judges look at the characters and the character which is favourite to win they have already formed an idea of who wins it, not going by the debaters but by the characters.

The opposite happens sometimes when a character is put into a disadvantage, i will not say they get favours from the judges, but i do feel there is a form of sympathy.

Next is what i have said which is that i do feel some of the judges apart from them competing in the tournament, are wanting at times when it comes to their knowledge.

When a match up is so one sided in terms of characters it also shows when you are debating because the group who gets the favourite character has an easier time constructing posts and countering their oppositions who without doubt struggle

 

[Anub]

/sigh .. i guess ill stoop to your level a little bit however dont expect much depth .. They needed to not rely on 64 palms as much as they did .. they needed to utilize moves like Morning Peacock and Hirudora more also they needed to use gai in general better then they did.. They needed to come up with a more plausable strategy because although some of the ones they came up with were good i could just not see them happening against pain .. and most of them were countered .. Plus a few other minor details .. but they did put up quite a good debate .. just not good enough to tip the edge and come out victors .. this is my look on the debate (minus a few things)

Oh man ... Now I really feel the need to reply to you...

We mentioned both Hidurora and Morning Peacock. Mentioning them a lot doesn't make it better IMO. We simply stated that Guy would use them, in what way and they would works best against x,y,z. What more do you want really? "guy uses hidurora, then again, then again, then he's using it AGAIN!!! and now ... AGAIN!" ... would that have been better?

And we had to use Neji because he was given to us. We had to use Ten Ten as well. I don't believe you should penalize us for using 50% of our team. We used them as well as we could giving the circumstances. That's my point and that's what my whole team desperately wants to say. Yes, we are aware how bad of a match-up Neji is against Pain. We are also aware (like the opposition was) that TenTen is close to being useless. We are also aware that Lee is weaker than Guy and Guy isn't diverse enough with his jutsu to be properly debated, like one can with Kakashi/Itachi/Nagato/Oro/Jiraiya/etc! I think we did our best and pulled out decent arguments, when most people on this forum would just say "team guy is fodderized". I am happy with the result.

 

[Draegod]

How was i biased ? And you were right i agreed with you on your reasoning with gai .. i said it was solid .. and neji hitting out chakra rods just for kicks .. Even with seeing the chakra they are gathering .. theres still no way that hey would know to knock them out .. what gives him the reason to suspect that they are all dead corpses.. which is why that was a lame point and as i said your video was pointless as the air palm would not clear a large enough path for lee to see the animal path.. And i said all preta has to do is lift his arms and grab the leg that guy would kick with .. but i still gave you credit for that argument as its doubtful he could do it ..however SOTRS countered your blitzing point's so thats the end of that ..

Dont call me biased btw unless you have proof besides correctly analyzing your post .. But im not going to argue with you as i can see you simply are upset that you lost

I can care less if we won or not, i just dont like bad judging.

1. SO neji and company was not aware of the pains abilities and what konaha discovered???

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Word??? I guess i didnt read the entire Pain arc.... I guess neji's byakugan cannot tell what a dead body is even though he has xray vision???

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I guess team guy absolutely knew nothing and couldnt use common sense and info from the village to figure anything out??? Cool story! Please tell it again???

Your reasoning on how gai would overcome the Asura and Preta was Solid However you forget that If Jiraiya were to Blitz preta he need hold up his hands to absorb the gates chakra which i believe is doable even when confronted with that kind of speed ..

You literaly stated hunger could absorb Guys gates by putting his hands up.. -___-... I literaly proved he could not with manga facts! SO dont say "I agreed" when you agreed with a part of it, and gave something that was wrong "putting hands up to absorb gates"..... Then you said Hunger (or any path) would grab the leg of Guy in gates???

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Sharingan plus rinnegan couldnt do it... How could something weaker and less ability and power do it???? **Sigh**

And to make it worse...

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It was literally done already by a slower jman! What makes you think they can even see/grab him???

I could go on and on, but Im out! Its too easy... Its obv some ppl do not know the manga 100%

 

[Zexion~]

Oh man ... Now I really feel the need to reply to you...

We mentioned both Hidurora and Morning Peacock. Mentioning them a lot doesn't make it better IMO. We simply stated that Guy would use them, in what way and they would works best against x,y,z. What more do you want really? "guy uses hidurora, then again, then again, then he's using it AGAIN!!! and now ... AGAIN!" ... would that have been better?

And we had to use Neji because he was given to us. We had to use Ten Ten as well. I don't believe you should penalize us for using 50% of our team. We used them as well as we could giving the circumstances. That's my point and that's what my whole team desperately wants to say. Yes, we are aware how bad of a match-up Neji is against Pain. We are also aware (like the opposition was) that TenTen is close to being useless. We are also aware that Lee is weaker than Guy and Guy isn't diverse enough with his jutsu to be properly debated, like one can with Kakashi/Itachi/Nagato/Oro/Jiraiya/etc! I think we did our best and pulled out decent arguments, when most people on this forum would just say "team guy is fodderized". I am happy with the result.

yes you did mention hirodura, and Mornign peacock , (only meant to say you should of used gai better) .. but you still could of used gai better in general but as you said he is hard to use .. You did indeed do your best and showed that this match is not a complete stomp .. but in the end i think even with added boost of getting the better side .. they provided great arguments with the 5 pains ( which is hard to do) and countered most of your move set's and strategies .. Im not going to say i sympathized for you because that would be biased almost .. I simply took the fact that you had the short end of the straw and your arguments and their arguments and came up with my result ..

 

[kakashi owns all]

yes you did mention hirodura, and Mornign peacock , (only meant to say you should of used gai better) .. but you still could of used gai better in general but as you said he is hard to use .. You did indeed do your best and showed that this match is not a complete stomp .. but in the end i think even with added boost of getting the better side .. they provided great arguments with the 5 pains ( which is hard to do) and countered most of your move set's and strategies .. Im not going to say i sympathized for you because that would be biased almost .. I simply took the fact that you had the short end of the straw and your arguments and their arguments and came up with my result ..

thats why they should have won the match

right there


its not about the stronger points


its about what makes you think and even slightly sway you

 

[Zexion~]

I can care less if we won or not, i just dont like bad judging.

1. SO neji and company was not aware of the pains abilities and what konaha discovered???

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Word??? I guess i didnt read the entire Pain arc.... I guess neji's byakugan cannot tell what a dead body is even though he has xray vision???

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I guess team guy absolutely knew nothing and couldnt use common sense and info from the village to figure anything out??? Cool story! Please tell it again???





You literaly stated hunger could absorb Guys gates by putting his hands up.. -___-... I literaly proved he could not with manga facts! SO dont say "I agreed" when you agreed with a part of it, and gave something that was wrong "putting hands up to absorb gates"..... Then you said Hunger (or any path) would grab the leg of Guy in gates???

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Sharingan plus rinnegan couldnt do it... How could something weaker and less ability and power do it???? **Sigh**

And to make it worse...

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It was literally done already by a slower jman! What makes you think they can even see/grab him???

I could go on and on, but Im out! Its too easy... Its obv some ppl do not know the manga 100%

/sigh .. no theres no evidence that Neji can tell when a person is dead besides their chakra flow has stopped,(which he cant really tell whats going from what he sees with the rods) .. . you obviously did not read my judging fully

Your reasoning on how gai would overcome the Asura and Preta was Solid

i simply stated a possible way that perhaps the path could of overcame it .... not like you lost because of that .. in fact that boosted your teams standing . untill i thought they were countered next post

 

[Zexion~]

thats why they should have won the match

right there


its not about the stronger points


its about what makes you think and even slightly sway you

Not really i thought it was a shit storm match .. So if thats your reasoning Turnt up was already at an absolute dis-advantage because they could not prove anything else? ... You judge your convoluted way and ill judge mine

 

[kakashi owns all]

Not really i thought it was a shit storm match .. So if thats your reasoning Turnt up was already at an absolute dis-advantage because they could not prove anything else? ... You judge your convoluted way and ill judge mine

They just had to convince me more that pain would win.

 

[Zexion~]

They just had to convince me more that pain would win.

.... Ok no thats not how im going to judge .. But thanks for explaining your way to me i guess... Team turnt up put up the better arguments and counters imo .. they were both really good but Turnt up were better

 

[Draegod]

/sigh .. no theres no evidence that Neji can tell when a person is dead besides their chakra flow has stopped,(which he cant really tell whats going from what he sees with the rods) .. . you obviously did not read my judging fully i simply stated a possible way that perhaps the path could of overcame it .... not like you lost because of that .. in fact that boosted your teams standing . untill i thought they were countered next post

First i would like to state, im not mad at you one bit! I do not take anything personal with your judging (because it is a hard thing to do, i avoid it on all lvs).

Your reasonings isnt backed by the manga, thus me proving your opinion wrong with the manga!

Neji can indeed tell if a heart is stopped or lungs are breathing!

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If the paths are not breathing and their hearts are not pumping... WHat does that mean?

And if he can see an out side source of chakra entering their body, what does that mean? And if the village already confirmed the rods were transferring chakra what does that mean??? That means 1+1=2 and neji destroys the chakra rods with 64 palms (like i stated) being the genius he is and with the info given to him!

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And the fact he can see chakra gathering... I can literally go on and on with neji. But it is what it is no matter how wrong it is..

 

[Zexion~]

First i would like to state, im not mad at you one bit! I do not take anything personal with your judging (because it is a hard thing to do, i avoid it on all lvs).

Your reasonings isnt backed by the manga, thus me proving your opinion wrong with the manga!

Neji can indeed tell if a heart is stopped or lungs are breathing!

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If the paths are not breathing and their hearts are not pumping... WHat does that mean?

And if he can see an out side source of chakra entering their body, what does that mean? And if the village already confirmed the rods were transferring chakra what does that mean??? That means 1+1=2 and neji destroys the chakra rods with 64 palms (like i stated) being the genius he is and with the info given to him!

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And the fact he can see chakra gathering... I can literally go on and on with neji. But it is what it is no matter how wrong it is..

Well i respect you more now for not getting mad .. However i realized he could see the outside chakra and i just did not think he would be able to figure all this out WHILE fighting the paths not to mention i dont think simply hitting them with 64 palms would remove them..that also influenced my decision .. However after SOTRS sort of killed neji with the summoning bird. :/

 

[kakashi owns all]

.... Ok no thats not how im going to judge .. But thanks for explaining your way to me i guess... Team turnt up put up the better arguments and counters imo .. they were both really good but Turnt up were better

Thats how you NEED to judge for a match that is clearly un even

 

[Blaze Release]

thats why they should have won the match

right there


its not about the stronger points


its about what makes you think and even slightly sway you

Thats how you NEED to judge for a match that is clearly un even

So what i claimed turned out to be the truth. Is that how you judged out first round then

Judges give more favouring towards the group with the inferior character is laughable.

You guys could easily solve this and just make a match up as fair as possible. Seriously how hard is this.
This is the only tournament i have seen where the match's ups are absurd. Make the match up's roughly equal and nobody complains, nobody gets any favours from the judges.

Anyway its pointless to continue, zexion has judged already and the discussion cannot be turned.
That further undermines his judging credentials

 

[kakashi owns all]

So what i claimed turned out to be the truth. Is that how you judged out first round then

Judges give more favouring towards the group with the inferior character is laughable.

You guys could easily solve this and just make a match up as fair as possible. Seriously how hard is this.
This is the only tournament i have seen where the match's ups are absurd. Make the match up's roughly equal and nobody complains, nobody gets any favours from the judges.

Anyway its pointless to continue, zexion has judged already and the discussion cannot be turned.
That further undermines his judging credentials

Not what i am doing at all

its about who is more convincing

and lol at the last part

 

[Blaze Release]

Not what i am doing at all

its about who is more convincing

and lol at the last part

From what i am reading ,that is what you are saying.
As for the last part, i am serious.

Its pointless to continue arguing with his decision because he has made it.
Him making a u-turn and it becomes a joke

 

[Draegod]

Well i respect you more now for not getting mad .. However i realized he could see the outside chakra and i just did not think he would be able to figure all this out WHILE fighting the paths not to mention i dont think simply hitting them with 64 palms would remove them..that also influenced my decision .. However after SOTRS sort of killed neji with the summoning bird. :/

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The rods arent unbreakable! And can be destroyed! 64 palms isnt his regular fingers; its chakra at the tip of his fingers hat cause the damage!

And fyi, neji doesnt even need rotaion (that tanked the juubis hand btw) to escape the drill bird! He will simply dodge it easily no difficulty!

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His eyes have the ability to almost instantly see everything! He then can use chakra to help alter anything he sees to help him dodge/escape:

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Rotation is an extra added bonus! neji isnt getting killed by some bird that isnt instant fast! Neji has so many ways of surviving and dodging it isnt even funny!

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If naruto could dodge the bird, neji with the byakugan would have no problem! That simple weak trick is never working on neji (no one on their team knows neji a fraction like i do). I could go on and on, but ima stop here.