MS Obito in Madara's place against Hashirama

[7Zero]

dumb way to counter my point. Butsuma doesn't have Mokuton........ only Hashirama in all History has had Mokuton.........

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[HadouKage]

Hasi doesn't have a counter to Kamu, I don't know why people keep saying Hashi will just wait for Obito like Obito won't try to capture Hashi like he did with Obito. If Hasi summons the Thousand Hands Wood Statue, I think that will be Obito's advantage will Hashi is controlling the Statue. It seems people are underestimating Obito. IMO it can go either way

 

[chopstickchakra]

Break it down now

1st and 2nd Hokage didn't know about 4th Hokage, Obito was student of 4th. Madara didn't get Obito until after Hashi thought he was dead.

 

[Enton]

hashi has incredible raw power. raw power is not whats needed to fight obito. in many ways, minato and kakashi, who are clearly weaker than hashirama, stand better chances at beating obito. naruto is not just about power levels. its about matchups.

 

[Blaze Release]

Hashirama wins.
Firstly Tobirama another jikuukin user has been put below Hashirama and Madara and as Madara himself said. Only hashirama can compete with him and he is right, Tobirama is no match for either. Using Tobirama to show you that, though jukakkun based ninjutsu is strong, still not strong enough for tobirama to compete with either

The thing about Obito is that unlike madara he cannot control kurama for a long time period.
It appears minato was wrong when he said, madara can only control the beast for a short time, but we can see that madara controlled it for a very long time until hashirama broke the genjutsu.

In order words it will not be long before obito losses control of the beast.
Now kamui is an annoying technique indeed, however it isn't absolute. All those that have fought obito have at least grasped the basics of how it works and you would think hashirama who is this experienced would also at least come up with the basic, which is that obito has to harden to attack.

Now only madara can see through hsahirama mokuton. (Before somebody says otherwise due to the latest chapter, i believe that was intentional by madara so lets see it at that). Mokuton bunshin's which cannot be identify by obito, will prove a very effective counter for kamui, if obito is tricked into believing he is warping the original.

Bunshin feints is an effective strategy against a lot of things it seems and kamui, either kakashi's or obito's could fall for this.
Complete izanagi on the other hand, is where the trouble is. We can assume obito will not sacrifice his eye from the start, so when he decides to use izanagi will be latter in the fight where we can assume by then hashirama has at least grasped kamui.

I have always said, izanagi + kamui combo is a bitch. But hashirama is a sensor and the force of nature is on his side. You would think it would be hard to sneak up on him.

Imo hashirama has this in the bag

 

[HadouKage]

Hashirama wins.
Firstly Tobirama another jikuukin user has been put below Hashirama and Madara and as Madara himself said. Only hashirama can compete with him and he is right, Tobirama is no match for either. Using Tobirama to show you that, though jukakkun based ninjutsu is strong, still not strong enough for tobirama to compete with either

The thing about Obito is that unlike madara he cannot control kurama for a long time period.
It appears minato was wrong when he said, madara can only control the beast for a short time, but we can see that madara controlled it for a very long time until hashirama broke the genjutsu.

In order words it will not be long before obito losses control of the beast.
Now kamui is an annoying technique indeed, however it isn't absolute. All those that have fought obito have at least grasped the basics of how it works and you would think hashirama who is this experienced would also at least come up with the basic, which is that obito has to harden to attack.

Now only madara can see through hsahirama mokuton. (Before somebody says otherwise due to the latest chapter, i believe that was intentional by madara so lets see it at that). Mokuton bunshin's which cannot be identify by obito, will prove a very effective counter for kamui, if obito is tricked into believing he is warping the original.

Bunshin feints is an effective strategy against a lot of things it seems and kamui, either kakashi's or obito's could fall for this.
Complete izanagi on the other hand, is where the trouble is. We can assume obito will not sacrifice his eye from the start, so when he decides to use izanagi will be latter in the fight where we can assume by then hashirama has at least grasped kamui.

I have always said, izanagi + kamui combo is a bitch. But hashirama is a sensor and the force of nature is on his side. You would think it would be hard to sneak up on him.

Imo hashirama has this in the bag

If Obito has Hashi's cells don't you think he'll be able to identify the bunshin clones?

 

[Sensational]

Hashirama wins.
Firstly Tobirama another jikuukin user has been put below Hashirama and Madara and as Madara himself said. Only hashirama can compete with him and he is right, Tobirama is no match for either. Using Tobirama to show you that, though jukakkun based ninjutsu is strong, still not strong enough for tobirama to compete with either

The thing about Obito is that unlike madara he cannot control kurama for a long time period.
It appears minato was wrong when he said, madara can only control the beast for a short time, but we can see that madara controlled it for a very long time until hashirama broke the genjutsu.

In order words it will not be long before obito losses control of the beast.
Now kamui is an annoying technique indeed, however it isn't absolute. All those that have fought obito have at least grasped the basics of how it works and you would think hashirama who is this experienced would also at least come up with the basic, which is that obito has to harden to attack.

Now only madara can see through hsahirama mokuton. (Before somebody says otherwise due to the latest chapter, i believe that was intentional by madara so lets see it at that). Mokuton bunshin's which cannot be identify by obito, will prove a very effective counter for kamui, if obito is tricked into believing he is warping the original.

Bunshin feints is an effective strategy against a lot of things it seems and kamui, either kakashi's or obito's could fall for this.
Complete izanagi on the other hand, is where the trouble is. We can assume obito will not sacrifice his eye from the start, so when he decides to use izanagi will be latter in the fight where we can assume by then hashirama has at least grasped kamui.

I have always said, izanagi + kamui combo is a bitch. But hashirama is a sensor and the force of nature is on his side. You would think it would be hard to sneak up on him.

Imo hashirama has this in the bag

Clones wont work, he can just warp them out once he realizes it was a clone. Tobi cant cant be blind sided either look at what happened to kakashi and gai when they tried.
Having a grasp of kamui doesnt mean you can beat it, Danzos guards had a grasp of kamui and got played for saps.

Obito touchs hashi its over.

 

[Bogard]

Hashirama wins.
Firstly Tobirama another jikuukin user has been put below Hashirama and Madara

A S/T technique stated to be below Obito's and a technique he apparently wasn't even able to master given the fact he was incapable to escape Kin/Gin or save himself or his pupils against 20bounty hunters in 2different occasions. Funny for someone supposed to have a teleportation technique Whether it's even a teleportation technique is yet to be know when you know that summoning jutsu can also be considered as a S/T technique

and as Madara himself said. Only hashirama can compete with him and he is right, Tobirama is no match for either.

Talking about portrayal now? Kabuto also said he is invincible, no Uchiha is a match for him. We all know how it ended

The thing about Obito is that unlike madara he cannot control kurama for a long time period.

It's the way around man. Minato was saying "Madara" couldn't control Kyubi for a long period of time, not Obito. He was basing his knowledge on Madara, not a masked guy he didn't know at all

In order words it will not be long before obito losses control of the beast.

This is yet to be proven that he can't control it for long and when you see him able to control multiple tailed beast during one day long or so, it's really doubtful

 

[lordmadarauchiha]

I don't think Obito has the offensive capabilities to do damage to Hashirama.

Yeah that's kinda true

 

[Kira was Righteous]

No idea how he would counter space time however power wise hashirama definitely stronger.

 

[Sensational]

d

Clones will work in the sense that when obito absorbs he becomes solid. Fooling him with a clone where he is in the process of warping and vulnerable could be enough to get him.

Or if your clone is in his dimension, it could prove very effective because now, he has a dilemma.
If the original attacks him on the outside and he was to blast this part of his body in his dimension, the clone can do the job there

The clone would have to know exactly were obito is going to be in his dimension in respect to were he is in the real world,
They cant communicate since they are in different worlds.
You act as if it takes forever for him to warp something, when he sees the attack he can simply stop the warp and go intangible.

 

[Bogard]

Yeah that's kinda true

You mean the guy who could have been killed by a kunai?

 

[Enton]

i think obito can teleport the clones anywhere he wants in the kamui dimension. fuu and torune couldn't counter him when the other one was captured. the only time it worked was when kakashi was warped, but that was because he was about to collapse (meaning, he wasn't a threat) and obito got slightly complacent (he didnt know the kyuubi had boosted his chakra from basically 0). he would bring his A-game against hashi.

 

[Blaze Release]

A S/T technique stated to be below Obito's and a technique he apparently wasn't even able to master given the fact he was incapable to escape Kin/Gin or save himself or his pupils against 20bounty hunters in 2different occasions. Funny for someone supposed to have a teleportation technique Whether it's even a teleportation technique is yet to be know when you know that summoning jutsu can also be considered as a S/T technique

We have no idea what jikkukin he had, outside of edo tensei.
What i am saying is that jikkukin user has already been put below these two

Talking about portrayal now? Kabuto also said he is invincible, no Uchiha is a match for him. We all know how it ended

Yes, but manga has portrayed these two to be the cream of the crop. The benchmark for the two main characters in the series. Now i am not saying they aren't unbeatable, but it would be very hard

It's the way around man. Minato was saying "Madara" couldn't control Kyubi for a long period of time, not Obito. He was basing his knowledge on Madara, not a masked guy he didn't know at all

But we know minato was wrong. In fact that statement i put in the same bracket as what kushina said about mito.
Both have been proven false. Mito was no where to be seen. And madara controlled the beast for a ridiculous time period.

This is yet to be proven that he can't control it for long and when you see him able to control multiple tailed beast during one day long or so, it's really doubtful

Kakashi noted obito's struggle

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It has to be said that, controlling this many beasts did hamper obito.
But can he control kurama for the same duration as madara?. I very much doubt this, if are to assume he has the same reserves as him

 

[KingHashirama]

[/U]

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LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Who else had Mokuton besides him?

 

[End of Days]

But hashirama is a sensor and the force of nature is on his side. You would think it would be hard to sneak up on him.

but being a sensor isnt much of a help since obito cant be sensed cause he is moving himself to another dimension
if obito is moving through ground behind hashirama, he will only be able to sense obito when he comes out of the ground
hashirama can attack him by turning back but obito can again slip through and touch him

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[Strict]

Hashirama stomps. Izanagi is not a problem, Hashirama is a sensor and would already see that Obito, an Uchiha, has a portion of his DNA, as he noticed it at Orochimaru. Hashirama could last a full day of fighting, where landscape changing abilities are included. The five minutes of Kamui and some minutes of Izanagi will not change the outcoming.

Above, though supposing Kamui to be perfect, some people may forget that as long as Tobi is untouchable, his opponent is also untouched. Hashirama has a lot to counter Kamui, with Mokuton Bunshin, pollen and Mokuton: Sashiki no Jutsu, as a few examples.

 

[Blaze Release]

d
The clone would have to know exactly were obito is going to be in his dimension in respect to were he is in the real world,
They cant communicate since they are in different worlds.
You act as if it takes forever for him to warp something, when he sees the attack he can simply stop the warp and go intangible.

If doesn;t take forever for him to warp something, but as konna said "you take longer to absorb something or someone else"
[

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].

We can firmly assume, hashirama like zetsu and edo madara both of whom have gained his dna and his ability, have shown Kagero, would further help with nullify as much as possible the threat of kamui

 

[Strict]

Maybe Hashirama could send out a Mokuton Bunshin to let Obito absorbing him. By doing this, Obito will not be able to go intangible anymore, as the Bunshin in the other dimension is going to stomp his material body there. hnhn

 

[Enton]

if obito has sharingan and mokuton kekkei genkai, then he can copy alot of hashirama's moves, no? he can copy wood clone jutsu then? wood clones using kamui? he has the chakra reserves for it.