[Discussion] Mihawk is>Shanks right?

[ToshiZO]

Strongest pirates in the New World.

Here is the viz scan.

Spoiler

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He separated their location from the core of the statement meaning. They are the 4 greatest pirates in the world, and they reside in the New World.

Not 4 greatest among the New World Pirates.

You don't have a scan to prove it.
Also I heard there is dispute upon the translation of the title. I read that in the VIZ he was referred to as "greatest swordsman" not "strongest."

Yes Viz decided to go with "greatest" over strongest for Mihawk despite having no issues going with Strongest for WB's title. Probably not to cause confusion, this more so supports the argument that swordsmanship is a skill vs stronger than every person holding a sword argument.

 

[Ripple Hole]

I'd like to think Shanks is stronger, we haven't really seen much of either but I think there's
more hype leaning towards Shanks. Guy had a fight with Kaido(World's strongest man/creature)
and was fine and dandy the next day he arrived at the War, could go toe to toe with WB and Shanks
teases Mihawk asking if he came for a rematch(Obviously he wouldn't come for a rematch if he won).

 

[Punk Hazard]

Here is the viz scan.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

He seperated their location from the core of the statement meaning. They are the 4 greatest pirates in the world, and they reside in the New World.

Not 4 greatest among the New World Pirates.




Yes Viz decided to go with "greatest" over strongest for Mihawk despite having no issues going with Strongest for WB's title. Probably not to cause confusion, this more so supports the argument that swordsmanship is a skill.

Fair enough.

 

[Lightbringer]

Fair enough.

Well there you have it. Shanks>Mihawk.

 

[ToshiZO]

Well there you have it. Shanks>Mihawk.

lmfao, its not that easy.

 

[Lightbringer]

lmfao, its not that easy.

Well I'm not saying it is. But I'm using his own standards of ranking against him.

He was arguing how since Mihawk was named "strongest swordsman" that he's automatically stronger as a character than anyone who wields a sword, regardless if that sword is their primary weapon or not.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Well there you have it. Shanks>Mihawk.

Not necessarily. There's still the interpretation that a Yonko's fleets count as part of his power. There has also been the argument that Shichibukai aren't active pirates, but are now privateers(don't agree with this one though).

Neither title of World's Strongest Swordsman or what Garp said in the scan above precede each other. In other words, there titles create a deadlock.

Well I'm not saying it is. But I'm using his own standards of ranking against him.

He was arguing how since Mihawk was named "strongest swordsman" that he's automatically stronger as a character than anyone who wields a sword, regardless if that sword is their primary weapon or not.

I said any character who's a swordsman.

 

[Lightbringer]

Not necessarily. There's still the interpretation that a Yonko's fleets count as part of his power. There has also been the argument that Shichibukai aren't active pirates, but are now privateers.

Neither title of World's Strongest Swordsman or what Garp said in the scan above precede each other. In other words, there titles create a deadlock.


I said any character who's a swordsman.

@Bold

That's what I said.....


Shichibukai are still pirates. You're just denying fact now. You're also paraphrasing again when you've criticized others for doing the same.

 

[Ripple Hole]

Not necessarily. There's still the interpretation that a Yonko's fleets count as part of his power. There has also been the argument that Shichibukai aren't active pirates, but are now privateers(don't agree with this one though).

Neither title of World's Strongest Swordsman or what Garp said in the scan above precede each other. In other words, there titles create a deadlock.


I said any character who's a swordsman.

Pysch, Shanks competes with Kaido who doesn't use a sword, Kaido being one of
the 4 strongest pirates. Making Shanks officially one of those strongest and pitting
all other pirates under the rank top 4.

Ah wait, Kaido is irrelevant, 4 strongest pirates is already enough and that's redundant.
Mihawk can be number 5.

 

[Punk Hazard]

@Bold

That's what I said.....

You can't be a swordsman if using a sword isn't part of your primary combat strength...

Shichibukai are still pirates. You're just denying fact now. You're also paraphrasing again when you've criticized others for doing the same.

I literally said I don't agree with that argument, but it's one made.

Pysch, Shanks competes with Kaido who doesn't use a sword, Kaido being one of
the 4 strongest pirates. Making Shanks officially one of those strongest and pitting
all other pirates under the rank top 4.

Ah wait, Kaido is irrelevant, 4 strongest pirates is already enough and that's redundant.
Mihawk can be number 5.

Wh...what?

 

[Lightbringer]

You can't be a swordsman if using a sword isn't part of your primary combat strength...



I literally said I don't agree with that argument, but it's one made.

A martial artist can still be an inexperienced sword-fighter and fair better without it.

Blackbeard has guns. That doesn't mean he's the greatest shot in the world and doesn't mean he'd lose to someone who's better than him with guns.

 

[Ripple Hole]

You can't be a swordsman if using a sword isn't part of your primary combat strength...



I literally said I don't agree with that argument, but it's one made.



Wh...what?

It was a loop, those 4 are flat out said to be the strongest pirates and that's already sufficient enough
opposed to strongest swordsman which implies purely swordsmanship, meanwhile Shanks may have
another bag of worms and his King's Haki.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It was a loop, those 4 are flat out said to be the strongest pirates and that's already sufficient enough
opposed to strongest swordsman which implies purely swordsmanship, meanwhile Shanks may have
another bag of worms and his King's Haki.

And Mihawk is said to be strongest than Shanks. Hence, deadlock.

A martial artist can still be an inexperienced sword-fighter and fair better without it.

...Okay?

Blackbeard has guns. That doesn't mean he's the greatest shot in the world and doesn't mean he'd lose to someone who's better than him with guns.

Ohhh I see you didn't get it. Simply having a thing doesn't make you a swordsman. It being part of your primary or main means of combat does. Never said simply having a thing makes you the greatest at it either.

 

[Ripple Hole]

And Mihawk is said to be strongest than Shanks. Hence, deadlock.

It's not a deadlock if swordsman is specifically limited to swordsmanship.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It's not a deadlock if swordsman is specifically limited to swordsmanship.

Except it's not, since the likes of Kaku and Law are still swordsmen despite having things that are very much not swords.

 

[Ripple Hole]

Except it's not, since the likes of Kaku and Law are still swordsmen despite having things that are very much not swords.

I mean't that literally as in the title World Strongest Swordsman referring specifically to swordsmanship.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I mean't that literally as in the title World Strongest Swordsman referring specifically to swordsmanship.

It refers specifically to swordsmen, as in the category, not swordsmanship, as in the skill.

 

[Lightbringer]

And Mihawk is said to be strongest than Shanks. Hence, deadlock.


...Okay?


Ohhh I see you didn't get it. Simply having a thing doesn't make you a swordsman. It being part of your primary or main means of combat does. Never said simply having a thing makes you the greatest at it either.

Wow, really? You understood what I was saying before but now you're twisting my words?

You said that him being the strongest swordsmen means that he's stronger than any character that wields a sword, regardless if it's his primary means of fighting.

I already gave the example with the martial artist, blackbeard, Gai and Sasuke explaining the dilemma.

Otherwise by your definition, Blackbeard would lose to anyone who is considered to be a better gunsmith simply because Blackbeard also wields a gun.

 

[Ripple Hole]

It refers specifically to swordsmen, as in the category, not swordsmanship, as in the skill.

I'll refute this within a few months of studying conflation.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Wow, really? You understood what I was saying before but now you're twisting my words?

You said that him being the strongest swordsmen means that he's stronger than any character that wields a sword, regardless if it's his primary means of fighting.

Never said this. I said swordsmen, which a person who doesn't use a sword in their core fighting style is not.

Just like the example with the martial artist and blackbeard, Gaid and Sasuke.

That's not the same thing.

1. Madara said Gai is the best Taijutsu user he's ever faced. The word best indicates skill at Taijutsu, rather than strongest in overall fighting capability.

2. Taijutsu user has been specified in the Naruto series as someone who uses little to no Ninjutsu or Genjutsu, relying almost completely or completely on Taijutsu. Sasuke does not fall into this category.

Otherwise by your definition, Blackbeard would lose to anyone who can use a gun better simply because he carries a gun.

That is not even close to true or the same as what I said.

I said Mihawk's title as WSM makes him stronger than any swordsman. Simply having a sword on your belt doesn't make you a swordsman, so not anyone who carries a sword is a swordsman. That means that a swordsman isn't comparable to a person who just carries a gun. A swordsman is comparable to someone like Yasopp or Lafitte who utilize firearms as part of their core combat.