[Discussion] Mihawk is>Shanks right?

[LBeezy]

Nope, not solely. Kaku had a DF and Martial Arts, and was classified as a swordsman. Ohm was a martial artist, and also classified as a swordsman.

You're absolutely correct about them. THEY had other means of fighting / weapons or abilities.

But Mihawk's title is "The world's strongest swordsman"... meaning it has to be with a sword only, or therefore he would be "the world's strongest man who carries/uses a sword".. and that wouldn't work.. WB's title alone contradicts it.

Doesn't take away from the fact the title relies on a weapon and an art. Swordsmanship is a skill. Being a creature and a man is not a skill. So Macho's examples don't make much sense at all.

This is the main point that I was trying to make.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You're absolutely correct about them. THEY had other means of fighting / weapons or abilities.

But Mihawk's title is "The world's strongest swordsman"... meaning it has to be with a sword only, or therefore he would be "the world's strongest man who carries/uses a sword".. and that wouldn't work.. WB's title alone contradicts it.

Being the World's Strongest Swordsman means of all the people that are swordsman, Mihawk is the strongest.

What you're saying is World's Strongest Swordsman means that Mihawk is the best at being a swordsman. Substitute in WB's title in this train of logic. Being the World's Strongest Man means that WB is the best at being a man. Does that make more sense than his title meaning that of all the people who are humans/man, WB is the strongest?

 

[LBeezy]

Being the World's Strongest Swordsman means of all the people that are swordsman, Mihawk is the strongest.

What you're saying is World's Strongest Swordsman means that Mihawk is the best at being a swordsman. Substitute in WB's title in this train of logic. Being the World's Strongest Man means that WB is the best at being a man. Does that make more sense than his title meaning that of all the people who are humans/man, WB is the strongest?

I see what your saying.. but if the sentence gets changed to this, you can't apply that logic...

Check it out..

Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman.
Whitebeard is the world's strongest man.


But let me ask you, take away the sword (the only object) from the sentence.. then what happens?

What will you take away from the WB sentence / title to apply yours and Macho's logic?

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Shanks is stronger

 

[Punk Hazard]

I see what your saying.. but if the sentence gets changed to this, you can't apply that logic...

Check it out..

Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman.
Whitebeard is the world's strongest man.


But let me ask you, take away the sword (the only object) from the sentence.. then what happens?

What will you take away from the WB sentence / title to apply yours and Macho's logic?

Mihawk's manner of fighting is his sword. To take away Mihawk's sword is to take away his means of combat, the basis of his strength. What you would take away from WB is the basis of his strength and means of combat: The Gura Gura no Mi. Take away WB's Gura Gura, and he isn't the strongest man alive anymore.

 

[LBeezy]

Mihawk's manner of fighting is his sword. To take away Mihawk's sword is to take away his means of combat, the basis of his strength. What you would take away from WB is the basis of his strength and means of combat: The Gura Gura no Mi. Take away WB's Gura Gura, and he isn't the strongest man alive anymore.

But WB's title is not "The world's strongest Gura Gura no Mi user"

I'm just confused as to why you guys can't see that there is a difference in titles. Plain and simple.. not every title has to mean the same exact thing.

Random example:
If the world says that Usain Bolt is the best runner in the world.

And if the world says that Michael Jordan is the best basketball player in the world.

And if the world says that Michael Jackson was the best singer in the world.


What's the one main difference that only one has, that the other two dont? An external object/variable that is NOT APART of the title holder.

Usain Bolt can run. Anywhere. Anytime. With his own body. And prove his title.

Michael Jackson could sing. Anywhere. Anytime. With his own voice. And prove his title.

BUT how about Michael Jordan? Take away the basketball. How does he prove his title? By imaginary dribbling/shooting hoops? Naahhhh fam.. he can't prove his title on his own. He needs that external object/variable, the basketball.

 

[Punk Hazard]

But WB'S title is not "The world's strongest Gura Gura no Mi user"

I'm just confused as to why you guys can't see that there is a difference in titles. Plain and simple.. not every title has to mean the same exact thing.

Random example:
If the world says that Usain Bolt is the best runner in the world.

And if the world says that Michael Jordan is the best basketball player in the world.

And if the world says that Michael Jackson was the best singer in the world.


What's the one main difference that only one has, that the other two dont? An external object/variable that is NOT APART of the title holder.

Usain Bolt can run. Anywhere. Anytime. With his own body. And prove his title.

Michael Jackson could sing. Anywhere. Anytime. With his own voice. And prove his title.

BUT how about Michael Jordan? Take away the basketball. How does he prove his title? By imaginary dribbling/shooting hoops? Naahhhh fam.. he can't prove his title on his own. He needs that external object/variable, the basketball.

That doesn't matter. What you took from Mihawk was the basis of his strength: His sword. Gura Gura no Mi falls into the same category.

You'd take Jordan's ball, Michael's voice, and Usain's legs.

 

[LBeezy]

That doesn't matter. What you took from Mihawk was the basis of his strength: His sword. Gura Gura no Mi falls into the same category.

You'd take Jordan's ball, Michael's voice, and Usain's legs.

I definitely see your way of thinking bro. But my point is that it's not necessarily logical..

Because it's all about the title.. the titles do not have to mean the same thing. Titles can be and are different from each other for different people and circumstances.

Mihawk's title is the only one that involves a weapon/object/variable that can be subtracted (fairly, without killing him, letting him live), and then therefore he wouldn't hold the title anymore.

But you can't subtract anything from WB's or Kaido's title beside them themselves. (Which would be their own existence, causing their death.)

The best singer title for Michael Jackson, can be earned as a human being.

The best runner title can be earned as a human being.

But the best basketball player requires being a human being AND having that basketball to be earned. Leave the human being. Take away the basketball. No more title.

There's a big difference there. It's black and white.

That's why what Macho said didn't make sense.. the latter was actually the most probable choice/option.

I'm not sure how you guys don't see it..

 

[Lightbringer]

Well we haven't seen Shanks fight so swordplay might not even be his greatest skill.

He could be like Whitebeard who only uses his weapon just because he can.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Garp was most likely referring to how much influence the Yonkos have.

LMAO same goes to mihawk aka his skill, but of course you guys take everything literal and so Yonko are clearly the strongest 4 pirates, Plus I think he mentions their influence later in his sentence meaning he meant battel power in the first instance where he mentioned power

 

[Humming]

I believe it's mentioned somewhere that, when Shanks lost his arm, Mihawk lost interest in dueling with him. It seems more of a pity deal, as it wouldn't necessarily be a 'fair' fight. However, Shanks was also able to clash one-handed with White Beard..so I imagine he's not pathetic. I don't think Mihawk > Shanks.

 

[loj]

Mihawk is the strongest swordsman, so he's above Mihawk if or until Oda introduces a retcon.

But do you lable Shanks as swordman despite he having one? Sure Law has sword which he uses as well but I don't lable him as standard swordman since he only uses sword 'cause of his DF.


Same could go for Shanks.Sure he has a sword but is that the main thing he uses in a fight? We have never seen him fighting.

 

[Punk Hazard]

But do you lable Shanks as swordman despite he having one? Sure Law has sword which he uses as well but I don't lable him as standard swordman since he only uses sword 'cause of his DF.


Same could go for Shanks.Sure he has a sword but is that the main thing he uses in a fight? We have never seen him fighting.

Shanks is a swordsman. Law is a swordsman.

 

[JDtheAlchemist]

Maybe 2 armed Shanks is equal to Mihawk or maybe even stornger but current Shanks would loose to Mihawk high diff right?

Otherwise why doesn't Mihawk fight Shanks anymore?

So stupid it hurts

 

[loj]

Shanks is a swordsman. Law is a swordsman.

I don't see them as swordman at all,at least not Law.

Could go off topic but he focuses more on his DF than his sword itself.

Well you can call him swordman but he is not the "real" if that makes sense.

But talking about Shanks,at this very moment he is a swordman.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I don't see them as swordman at all,at least not Law.

Could go off topic but he focuses more on his DF than his sword itself.

Well you can call him swordman but he is not the "real" if that makes sense.

But talking about Shanks,at this very moment he is a swordman.

You don't consider him a swordsman because an external power independent of his sword but along with his sword.

By this logic, Zoro isn't a swordsman because he uses Haki, an external power independent of his swords.

 

[Lightbringer]

I don't see them as swordman at all,at least not Law.

Could go off topic but he focuses more on his DF than his sword itself.

Well you can call him swordman but he is not the "real" if that makes sense.

But talking about Shanks,at this very moment he is a swordman.

Let's also not forget Whitebeard. The Bisento wasn't even his primary weapon.

 

[Lightbringer]

Being the World's Strongest Swordsman means of all the people that are swordsman, Mihawk is the strongest.

What you're saying is World's Strongest Swordsman means that Mihawk is the best at being a swordsman. Substitute in WB's title in this train of logic. Being the World's Strongest Man means that WB is the best at being a man. Does that make more sense than his title meaning that of all the people who are humans/man, WB is the strongest?

Can you not grasp the concept of alternative fighting methods?

Let me use Naruto as an example.

Gai was said to be the strongest Taijutsu user.

Sasuke also used taijutsu, but that doesn't mean Gai can defeat him in 1v1 if Sasuke used all of his powers.

By your logic, anyone that wields a sword means that's their primary means of fighting. Whitebeard wielded a Bisento and that wasn't even his primary weapon.

Even if someone was more skilled with that weapon fought him, doesn't mean he can win against Whitebeard.

Shanks could be a stronger Haki user or have a Devil Fruit power that can give him the advantage against Mihawk in a serious battle.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Can you not grasp the concept of alternative fighting methods?

Let me use Naruto as an example.

Gai was said to be the strongest Taijutsu user.

Sasuke also used taijutsu, but that doesn't mean Gai can defeat him in 1v1 if Sasuke used all of his powers.

By your logic, anyone that wields a sword means that's their primary means of fighting. Whitebeard wielded a Bisento and that wasn't even his primary weapon.

Even if someone was more skilled with that weapon fought him, doesn't mean he can win against Whitebeard.

Shanks could be a stronger Haki user or have a Devil Fruit power that can give him the advantage against Mihawk in a serious battle.

Doesn't really matter. Kaku had three different fighting styles, and he's still a swordsman. He had two separate alternative combat styles that gave him an advantage over Zoro, someone whose only fighting style is swordsmanship. Who won?

A bisento isn't a sword. Shanks' primary style of combat has been shown to be swordsmanship. Compare the amount of conflicts he's been in that he grabbed his sword to the amount where he didn't grab his sword. And even if isn't his primary means of fighting, as long as it's a consistent and regular means, he's a swordsman.

Same scenario with Shanks. He can have 15 different abilities, he's still a swordsman, so for now, the manga points to him being weaker than Mihawk to some degree.

 

[MadaraReturns]

When Mihawk came to that island with Luffy's poster Shanks asked "you came for a rematch?", meaning that Shanks won previous time....