[Discussion] Mihawk is>Shanks right?

[Uzumaki Macho]

Portrayal Wise Shanks is definitely in the lead as of now.

Title wise Mihawk would make sense. Yonkou > Shichibukai BUT Mihawks title is more specific towards him and Shanks. Its not as vague.

But titles always have loopholes in them, always. Mihawk's title could easily mean Mihawk is stronger in swordsmanship, but in a full out battle he doesn't necessarily have to be the last one standing.

There are two ways to look at Mihawk's title. Strongest person who holds a sword OR Strongest in the art of swordsmanship.

I'm pretty sure it's the former. Saying that it's the latter is like saying Whitebeard was the best at being a man, or that Kaido is the best at being alive.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I'm pretty sure it's the former. Saying that it's the latter is like saying Whitebeard was the best at being a man, or that Kaido is the best at being alive.

LOL this made me laugh so hard, but it's correct imo.

 

[LBeezy]

I'm pretty sure it's the former. Saying that it's the latter is like saying Whitebeard was the best at being a man, or that Kaido is the best at being alive.

You actually got it backwards bro.. the former is not the most likely choice.. the latter (him being strongest in the art of swordsmanship) is the most probable option.

 

[~Ethereal~]

Agreed 100%.

 

[ToshiZO]

I'm pretty sure it's the former. Saying that it's the latter is like saying Whitebeard was the best at being a man, or that Kaido is the best at being alive.

Its different because swordsmanship is an artform. A skill.

And Kaidous title directly contradicts WB's title as well. Kaidou had the same title when WB was alive so which one are you gonna follow?

Only reason I favour Kaidou over everyone is the way he was described...it was stated to always bet on Kaidou in a 1v1. Its not because of Kaidou's title I think hes the strongest its because of that statement.

You either drop WB's title or drop Kaidous title because they cant coexist unless you are willing to understand titles have loopholes.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Its different because swordsmanship is an artform. A skill.

And Kaidous title directly contradicts WB's title as well. Kaidou had the same title when WB was alive so which one are you gonna follow?

Only reason I favour Kaidou over everyone is the way he was described...it was stated to always bet on Kaidou in a 1v1. Its not because of Kaidou's title I think hes the strongest its because of that statement.

You either drop WB's title or drop Kaidous title because they cant coexist unless you are willing to understand titles have loopholes.

WB is the most skilled at being a man, and Kaido is the most skilled at living, if the latter is the case. There's no proof that Kaido had his title when WB was alive.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Its different because swordsmanship is an artform. A skill.

And Kaidous title directly contradicts WB's title as well. Kaidou had the same title when WB was alive so which one are you gonna follow?

Only reason I favour Kaidou over everyone is the way he was described...it was stated to always bet on Kaidou in a 1v1. Its not because of Kaidou's title I think hes the strongest its because of that statement.

You either drop WB's title or drop Kaidous title because they cant coexist unless you are willing to understand titles have loopholes.

Do we know if Kaido is human? He has horns, so I'm inclined to say he isn't. In the case that he isn't, then the titles don't necessarily contradict.

 

[ToshiZO]

Do we know if Kaido is human? He has horns, so I'm inclined to say he isn't. In the case that he isn't, then the titles don't necessarily contradict.

Then his title doesn't place him above Shanks or anyone else. So its a lose lose regardless.

WB is the most skilled at being a man, and Kaido is the most skilled at living, if the latter is the case. There's no proof that Kaido had his title when WB was alive.

Being a man is not a skill, its something you are born as. It doesn't even make sense. You would make more sense if WB was called Worlds strongest martial artist or something.

Kaidou the most skilled at living? Wtf is that even supposed to be mean? Kaidou's title is Strongest Creature. Not strongest

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? Or Strongest at being alive? Wtf.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Yonko are the 4 most strongest pirates, mihawk is a pirate and so he is inferior

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Then his title doesn't place him above Shanks or anyone else. So its a lose lose regardless.

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Being a man is not a skill, its something you are born as. It doesn't even make sense. You would make more sense if WB was called Worlds strongest martial artist or something.

Kaidou the most skilled at living? Wtf is that even supposed to be mean? Kaidou's title is Strongest Creature. Not strongest liver? Or Strongest at being alive? Wtf.

The official translation said "They say in a 1v1, always bet on Kaidou for in land, sea or air, he is the World's Strongest Creature." Whether got his nickname after WB's death or that they've held their simultaneously, bottom line is that Kaido is the #1 guy living.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Yonko are the 4 most strongest pirates, mihawk is a pirate and so he is inferior

Garp was most likely referring to how much influence the Yonkos have.

 

[ToshiZO]

Do we know if Kaido is human? He has horns, so I'm inclined to say he isn't. In the case that he isn't, then the titles don't necessarily contradict.

I see where you are going with this now actually.

WB was strongest among men. But Kaidou was even stronger than WB?

Ok.

The official translation said "They say in a 1v1, always bet on Kaidou for in land, sea or air, he is the World's Strongest Creature." Whether got his nickname after WB's death or that they've held their simultaneously, bottom line is that Kaido is the #1 guy living.

So Kaidou's title > WB's title is that right?

If Kaidou is considered a human, then they definitely contradict. If not then sure, it would just mean Kaidou's title places him above even WB's title.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Then his title doesn't place him above Shanks or anyone else. So its a lose lose regardless.

Nope. If Kaido isn't human, then one can say Kaido didn't fall under WB's title of World's Strongest Man if one interprets the latter title to mean the strongest human being. Kaido's title, being Strongest Thing Alive, is a broader category that could include WB.

 

[ToshiZO]

Nope. If Kaido isn't human, then one can say Kaido didn't fall under WB's title of World's Strongest Man if one interprets the latter title to mean the strongest human being. Kaido's title, being Strongest Thing Alive, is a broader category that could include WB.

Yes it can be looked at like that, Kaidou just can't be a human then.

Or some may take it as: Among creatures not including humans, because often Creature is a term that is distinct from humans.

Either way titles aren't the be all end all, you should know this of all people.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I see where you are going with this now actually.

WB was strongest among men. But Kaidou was even stronger than WB?

Ok.

And why not? For one, Whitebeard himself implied his title no longer applied to him("You all call me 'demon' and a 'monster,' but I won't always be the strongest one out there"). Akainu displayed superiority to him at Marineford, and it's possible for there to have been someone stronger than Whitebeard, i.e., Kaido.

We also don't know that Kaido had the title while Whitebeard is alive, and one can assume the point of Kaido's title including the word "alive" is meant to emphasize that he is NOW the strongest due to WB being dead.

Yes it can be looked at like that, Kaidou just can't be a human then.

Or some may take it as: Among creatures not including humans, because often Creature is a term that is distinct from humans.

Either way titles aren't the be all end all, you should know this of all people.

It's the end-all-be-all until we get new feats or hype. For now, they're better than any other feat or hype given.

 

[ToshiZO]

Heres the definition of creature btw

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So with Kaidou's title there are two ways to go.

1.Creature includes everyone and thus Kaidou's title (Kaidou cannot be a human in this case) > WB

OR

2.Creatures are distinct from humans and thus Kaidou's title doesn't automatically place him above others including Shanks.

Both would allow his title and WB's title to coexist.

Either this or Kaidou got his title after WB's death.

 

[Punk Hazard]

1.Creature includes everyone and thus Kaidou's title (Kaidou cannot be a human in this case) > WB

Kaidou got his title after WB's death.

I interpret it as being one of these two.

 

[LBeezy]

WB is the most skilled at being a man, and Kaido is the most skilled at living, if the latter is the case. There's no proof that Kaido had his title when WB was alive.

Worlds Strongest Man = Being the Strongest man. Not the most skilled at being a man. There's a difference.

World's Strongest Creature = Being the Strongest creature. Not the most skilled at being alive/living. There's a difference.

World's Strongest Swordsman = Being the strongest man, SOLELY, with a sword. Not the strongest man with or without a sword.

Do you understand the difference between the former and the latter now?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Worlds Strongest Man = Being the Strongest man. Not the most skilled at being a man. There's a difference.

World's Strongest Creature = Being the Strongest creature. Not the most skilled at being alive/living. There's a difference.

World's Strongest Swordsman = Being the strongest man, SOLELY, with a sword. Not the strongest man with or without a sword.

Do you understand the difference between the former and the latter now?

Nope, not solely. Kaku had a DF and Martial Arts, and was classified as a swordsman. Ohm was a martial artist, and also classified as a swordsman.

 

[ToshiZO]

Nope, not solely. Kaku had a DF and Martial Arts, and was classified as a swordsman. Ohm was a martial artist, and also classified as a swordsman.

Doesn't take away from the fact the title relies on a weapon and an art. Swordsmanship is a skill. Being a creature and a man is not a skill. So Macho's examples don't make much sense at all.