Is Obito WORTHY of redemption?

[Lightbringer]

You don't have to agree with them. When you understand them, you know how they can be fixed. That is the point.

That's not even the argument........the argument was whether what they did was right and you said Obito never did anything wrong

I agree that all men deserve a chance to redeem themselves but not the former notion which you clearly stated yourself.

There is no redemption anyway. Obito never did anything bad.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Once again, you're being myopic. That's a part of understanding someone. Once you understand someone, you know why they are the way they are. Everything becomes clear. That is when you can accept them, and help them to better understand themselves and others.

If something is to be fixed, they must have a problem, no? Beyond which, as the other guy said, that still doesn't excuse a person's actions.

 

[Lightbringer]

If something is to be fixed, they must have a problem, no? Beyond which, as the other guy said, that still doesn't excuse a person's actions.

Good point

 

[Tennis Robot]

Hashirama and Jiraiya tried to bring peace, but just because their ideals did not work out they still didn't attack the planet.

That's because they aren't Obito. Have you been reading what I have been saying?

That doesn't excuse their actions. If they lived in a society where moral obligations are taught, then he should have no excuse regardless of his past.

You're in a dark place. Unfortunately, I don't know what place that is or how/why you got there. I can only ask you to try to understand.

If something is to be fixed, they must have a problem, no? Beyond which, as the other guy said, that still doesn't excuse a person's actions.

You can't condemn them for their flaws without understanding the sources of their flaws. When you know them, you can figure out how to properly deal with them.

 

[Lightbringer]

You're in a dark place. Unfortunately, I don't know what place that is or how/why you got there. I can only ask you to try to understand.

How about read the other comment I posted on top of the page

 

[Darth Uchiha]

That's because they aren't Obito. Have you been reading what I have been saying?



You're in a dark place. Unfortunately, I don't know what place that is or how/why you got there. I can only ask you to try to understand.

It's not about being in a dark place, while your desire to understand others is admirable, it's too extreme, some things are just wrong, and, you can understand someone's motivations, without approving of and excuse their actions. School shooters suffer in their lives often, just because we understand and sympathize with their suffering, were they correct in hurting and/or killing innocent people.

 

[Tennis Robot]

I understand what your trying to prove but @the bold. I have a question, in your ideology once you accept them you accept the crime they have committed?

Yeah of course. When I understand why they have committed their crimes, I can correctly figure out how to deal with them so that they understand the errors of their ways.

It's not about being in a dark place, while your desire to understand others is admirable, it's too extreme, some things are just wrong, and, you can understand someone's motivations, without approving of and excuse their actions. School shooters suffer in their lives often, just because we understand and sympathize with their suffering, were they correct in hurting and/or killing innocent people.

The past is the past. No matter what you do, it will not change. If I find that someone requires negative enforcement to understand the implications of their actions, then that is what should be done. But I don't see any logic in going around blindly punishing people for their crimes. Some people just need to feel loved. In fact, I would bet that most people just need to feel loved. Do you think that throwing them in a cell with a bunch of other unloved people will help them?

 

[Lightbringer]

Yeah of course. When I understand why they have committed their crimes, I can correctly figure out how to deal with them so that they understand the errors of their ways.

You're contradicting yourself. You say that these men are right in their actions if you only would understand them, yet then you say they have error in their ways. So you're already admitting that men can do wrong things and that you are right since you're telling them what they are doing wrong.

 

[Tennis Robot]

You're contradicting yourself. You say that these men are right in their actions if you only would understand them, yet then you say they have error in their ways. So you're already admitting that men can do wrong things and that you are right since you're telling them what they are doing wrong.

Yeah. I can see that they are doing wrong things, but I can't do anything about it until I know why they did those things.

Oh yeah, in the above comment (mine): that's the problem with the prison system. People think of it as a place to detain bad people and keep the innocent people safe. It's supposed to be a place where people understand why their actions were wrong.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Yeah. I can see that they are doing wrong things, but I can't do anything about it until I know why they did those things.

So, just let them hurt others for any reason they can find to justify it, then?

 

[Ja maya]

Yeah of course. When I understand why they have committed their crimes, I can correctly figure out how to deal with them so that they understand the errors of their ways.

Yes! To help them understand the errors you have to acknowledge it! According to you their crime is justifiable, your letting what they did slide. I understand their reason but its meaningless if my judgment becomes clouded to shift in favor of theirs. How will they learn if you can't tell them they committed murder, which is a crime.

 

[Tennis Robot]

So, just let them hurt others for any reason they can find to justify it, then?

No. I didn't say I would allow it to continue. I just wouldn't punish them for doing things that I could not have prevented. Unless that was what they needed.

lol holy **** I can't get a break in this thread.

Yes! To help them understand the errors you have to acknowledge it! According to you their crime is justifiable, your letting what they did slide. I understand their reason but its meaningless if my judgment becomes clouded to shift in favor of theirs. How will they learn if you can't tell them they committed murder, which is a crime.

I didn't say that I wouldn't do that. I just wouldn't take any action until I knew everything.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

No. I didn't say I would allow it to continue. I just wouldn't punish them for doing things that I could not have prevented. Unless that was what they needed.

lol holy **** I can't get a break in this thread.

The point of punishment isn't revenge, it's to show others what they did was wrong, and to dissuade them from doing the same.

 

[Lightbringer]

Yeah. I can see that they are doing wrong things, but I can't do anything about it until I know why they did those things.

Oh yeah, in the above comment (mine): that's the problem with the prison system. People think of it as a place to detain bad people and keep the innocent people safe. It's supposed to be a place where people understand why their actions were wrong.

So explain this comment to me? Because that was what we were originally discussing and now you've changed the topic. You're saying that you can see that people are doing wrong things but yet you say Obito never did anything wrong......

There is no redemption anyway. Obito never did anything bad.

 

[Tennis Robot]

The point of punishment isn't revenge, it's to show others what they did was wrong, and to dissuade them from doing the same.

Yeah so do you think that the same exact treatment should be applied to every criminal? Do you think that being locked up is like a universal dissuasion mechanism? How do you know it won't make them worse?

So explain this comment to me? Because that was what we were originally discussing and now you've changed the topic. You're saying that you can see that people are doing wrong things but yet you say Obito never did anything wrong......

He didn't have to redeem himself for anything. He just understood the errors of his ways and decided to change. His life was his and no one else's. That was a pretty...bad comment though. Idk anymore. This is difficult.

 

[Lightbringer]

The point of punishment isn't revenge, it's to show others what they did was wrong, and to dissuade them from doing the same.

Exactly. Prisons are considered to be correctional facilities. They usually offer counsel, education, and help with attaining new work skills as it is.

Only certain crimes serve life sentences.


That doesn't stop people from choosing to not reform or pretend to be reformed only to commit the same crimes again.

Yeah so do you think that the same exact treatment should be applied to every criminal? Do you think that being locked up is like a universal dissuasion mechanism? How do you know it won't make them worse?

You do realize that prisons offer counseling and education right?

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Yeah so do you think that the same exact treatment should be applied to every criminal? Do you think that being locked up is like a universal dissuasion mechanism? How do you know it won't make them worse?

It may make them worse, but it makes countless other people too afraid to commit their crimes, why do you think crime is at such a low, these days? Hell, here in New York, crime hasn't been this low since the 60s.

 

[Ja maya]

I didn't say that I wouldn't do that. I just wouldn't take any action until I knew everything.

So were now on the means, "It depends on the crime, until I know backstory of why its justifiable." Obito is the main discussion at hand and according to you what he did is okay because if you look through his view.

 

[Tennis Robot]

It may make them worse, but it makes countless other people too afraid to commit their crimes, why do you think crime is at such a low, these days? Hell, here in New York, crime hasn't been this low since the 60s.

Crime would be at an all-time low if I just killed everyone in the world, wouldn't it?

So were now on the means, "It depends on the crime, until I know backstory of why its justifiable." Obito is the main discussion at hand and according to you what he did is okay because if you look through his view.

No. I know it's justifiable, but until I know why, I can't take any action to prevent it from happening again.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Crime would be at an all-time low if I just killed everyone in the world, wouldn't it?

You keep using hyperboles, jumping to extremes. First off, prisons protect people from the criminals that inhabit hem. Second, they make people not want to commit crimes. Just because one person is reformed, doesn't mean another won't jump to do exactly what they did, just with different motivations. You'd do well to remember that.