[Discussion] Is Luffy way stronger than Zoro?

Skull Knight

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MFW what you quoted answers this question.
???

A giant carrying Luffy is NOT the same thing as that giant being affiliated with Luffy's crew. Crocodile helped Luffy at Marineford, is he considered an affiliate of the SH pirates? No. The WG did not know that those crews adopted Luffy's flag until after Dressrosa.
Again only Barto n maybe that long arm guy started there adventure. Rest haven't if I not wrong.

He was traveling underground to get to Luffy. He was still there, however, along with five other people on WB's level. He was dying anyway.



Jumped Akainu and failed to put him down, you mean.
Technically he was destroying MF while Akainu was finding a way to come back to surface n it was BB who killed him.

Good for him, still was no match for Akainu as the war went on and was still critically injured.
What part of healing u don't understand???

Blackbeard? Blackbeard didn't get his ass kicked by anybody? He destroyed Baltigo. What manga are you reading?
I was talking about the guy who was shown in recent chapter not BB.


Shanks does not and it's a feat.
Titles are not feat.

Dude are you an idiot? If Character A is 100 and Character B is 98, then Character A is obviously ahead of Character B because 100 is fucking bigger than 98. You can be ahead of someone and be on the same level as them.
It was you who posted the BS 100-98logic. So u agree that Mihawk was weak in comparison to WB???
I answered that question, scholar.
By answer u mean where u cleverly said WB got the title because his equal died :elmo:
So u consider them equal if I m not wrong. I see WSM title didn't put WB above Roger then hmmm...

And why does Shanks get the benefit of the doubt over Mihawk then?
It's not benefit of doubt. People claims Mihawk is above Shanks n whenever asked to.prove they comes with title logic which doesn't help at all to strengthen the case.


Because you don't need to fight someone for the world to know you're stronger. If Shanks gets into a major fight and shows less power in that fight than Mihawk has in another, then the world can know he's stronger. The fact that Oda himself continues to assert Mihawk as the WSS is proof enough.
So which fights we talking about???
I mean we have Shanks who is clashing with WSM, WSC n all the other guys whereas Mihawk was clashing rookies n some low lvl pirates. U think Mihawk showed more firepower n Shanks didn't???
Riker do u even believe half the nonsense u write???
 

Punk Hazard

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Step your reading comprehension up.


Again only Barto n maybe that long arm guy started there adventure. Rest haven't if I not wrong.
We see Cavendish doing this as well.


Technically he was destroying MF while Akainu was finding a way to come back to surface n it was BB who killed him.
This refutes nothing I said.


What part of healing u don't understand???
Except he didn't heal since he still had the bleeding wounds.


I was talking about the guy who was shown in recent chapter not BB.
And the relevance of this is?


Titles are not feat.
Yes they are.

It was you who posted the BS 100-98logic. So u agree that Mihawk was weak in comparison to WB???
No? LMAO you have to be trolling with this blatant inability to read.

By answer u mean where u cleverly said WB got the title because his equal died :elmo:
So u consider them equal if I m not wrong. I see WSM title didn't put WB above Roger then hmmm...
Y-Yes? If two people are of equal strength and they're alive at the same time, neither of them would be the WSM...the title wouldn't exist until after one of them died. If WB became PK and died, Roger would be the WSM instead. What exactly do you falsely think this proves?

It's not benefit of doubt. People claims Mihawk is above Shanks n whenever asked to.prove they comes with title logic which doesn't help at all to strengthen the case.
Just because you're incapable of understanding what the title means doesn't mean it doesn't mean what it means.

So which fights we talking about???
I mean we have Shanks who is clashing with WSM, WSC n all the other guys whereas Mihawk was clashing rookies n some low lvl pirates. U think Mihawk showed more firepower n Shanks didn't???
The fact that Mihawk is regarded as the most powerful swordsman even after Shanks does these things just means that these feats can be attributed to Mihawk as well.

Shanks clashing with the WSM just means Mihawk would be capable of the same thing because he's still regarded as more powerful. Same for anything else Shanks does until it's demonstrated that Mihawk's title doesn't apply to Shanks, and that hasn't happened.

-Because Shanks never got one of his attacks blocked by a 3rd division commander like it was nothing?
-Because Shanks never got stalled by a mid tier officer who also wields a sword?
Interestingly enough, Shanks only clashes have been with high tier guys. Go figure.
And on the other hand, Mihawk has demonstrated power on the level of Emperors and Admirals during these same events. Jozu blocking Mihawk's slash can easily be attributed to being similar to Daz Bones blocked a slash like it was nothing and was then cut down by the very next one and couldn't fight anymore. Just because Jozo blocked one doesn't mean he could have blocked a second one right after, nor does it mean Mihawk was going all out.

It's a little interesting how you guys are so quick to accept the title argument, but what exactly can Mihawk do with that title, that Shanks can't stop? If Mihawk charges at Shanks with his black sword, is Shanks already dead since he is clashing with the WSS?
No, it just means that whatever Shanks can do, Mihawk can do better. It can be an extreme diff fight, Mihawk's title just means he has a better chance of winning.

I'm not playing favorites, it's just basic portrayal and common sense. Until Mihawk and Shanks clash again, or they fight different opponents, and Mihawk performs better and still holds the title WSS, Mihawk isn't above Shanks.
"It's basic portrayal and common sense" while ignoring that the title of WSS has been a part of Mihawk's portrayal and has been consistently upheld by the author all the way into the current manga. You're playing favorites.

Interesting. I guess Luffy is stronger than Big Mom, as the whole world knows what happened on WCI and Luffy received the W right?
This argument doesn't work because WE know that the circumstances behind this means it's not true. There is no evidence that the same thing can be said about Mihawk's title. Because by the same measure, I can say shit like "Shanks' status as an Emperor is false because the circumstances that got him his title could be dubious like Luffy's."

Just because SOME events in the manga aren't valid because of dubious circumstances doesn't mean you can use that as an argument against EVERY event in the manga. You can use that as a reason for doubt, but not as a reason for dismissal.


@bold: which has not been the case yet, so you keep using an argument that is completely useless.
That wasn't the point of my argument, Einstein. That's just an example of how Mihawk's title can remain in place without fighting Shanks directly.

@underline: The fact that you need to blindly believe everything that Oda chooses to say says a lot. At no point did Oda say that 'Mihawk is stronger than Shanks.'
I never said I blindly believe everything Oda says. I have said it before in this sub, time and time again, that you've seen me say(which makes this argument from you just pathetic), that the CURRENT manga puts Mihawk above Shanks. I have acknowledged that this could change to show that Shanks is exempt from Mihawk's title or that Mihawk's title is invalid for one reason or another, but that can be said about ANYTHING in the manga, making it an invalid argument. Until the manga shows that Mihawk's title doesn't apply to Shanks, it will apply to Shanks. It's that simple.
 

Skull Knight

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We see Cavendish doing this as well.
So its barto n Cavendish. not much militia


This refutes nothing I said.
after Akainu fell it was clearly said he is just getting started

He continued destroying MF till BB showed up

Except he didn't heal since he still had the bleeding wounds.
He did

You can clearly see he was all healed up


And the relevance of this is?
that people continue joining Yonkos so if Marines bestowed the title upon Mihawk he would have militia, islands and power.



Yes they are.
lol title God given to Ussop wasn't a feat.


No? LMAO you have to be trolling with this blatant inability to read.


Y-Yes? If two people are of equal strength and they're alive at the same time, neither of them would be the WSM...the title wouldn't exist until after one of them died. If WB became PK and died, Roger would be the WSM instead. What exactly do you falsely think this proves?
Thing is there is also Garp who could have got WSM but the title was passed to WB. and whenever we make a top ten list we put Garp, Roger n WB in same tier. This itself proves titles doesn't help.


Just because you're incapable of understanding what the title means doesn't mean it doesn't mean what it means.


The fact that Mihawk is regarded as the most powerful swordsman even after Shanks does these things just means that these feats can be attributed to Mihawk as well.
Yes he can but Marines doesn't consider him as a Yonko worthy candidate. It would have been a different thing if Mihawk said I didnt want Yonko status but that's also not the case.
Marines could have also send Mihawk to plug the hole which WB left after his demise but they didn't n let BB took WB's terittory which is enough to prove Marines dont see Mihawk as a potent candidate for Yonko title.

Shanks clashing with the WSM just means Mihawk would be capable of the same thing because he's still regarded as more powerful. Same for anything else Shanks does until it's demonstrated that Mihawk's title doesn't apply to Shanks, and that hasn't happened.
But that didn't happen. Shanks WB clash created rift in sky whereas Mihawk never got another chance to even attack WB.
 

Punk Hazard

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Yes because Mihawk decided to "test his power" by half assing an attack against a yonko. Makes perfect sense.
You can test the level between you and someone else without going all out. It's also stupid to assume that Mihawk is below WB's level because his slash was stopped by a commander when commanders were matching up with people who were pushing Whitebeard.


No it doesn't. Mihawks title means he has a better chance at winning against no named pirates who aren't yonko. It doesn't mean he has a better chance at winning against a guy who we've barely seen swing a sword
Except Shanks has used a sword for every single conflict we've seen him in, has a named sword, and was confirmed to be a swordsman by Oda in the SBS.

Who says I'm ignoring it? It's just not something that confirms to place Mihawk over Shanks. You're just being a literal thinker.
And you're being delusional for looking at the story say "Miahwk is the most powerful swordsman" and taking that to mean he's weaker than another swordsman.
 

Punk Hazard

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So its barto n Cavendish. not much militia
No boy, Barto and Cavendish are the ones spreading Luffy's flag. His militia consists of the entire Strawhat Grand Fleet.


after Akainu fell it was clearly said he is just getting started

He continued destroying MF till BB showed up
Your point...being?


He did

You can clearly see he was all healed up
Okay, the wound healed. Still doesn't change my point that the WB pirates took more damage than the Marines did.
that people continue joining Yonkos so if Marines bestowed the title upon Mihawk he would have militia, islands and power.
Yeah, that's what I said. If the WG gave that title to Mihawk, he'd be someone with those things. He doesn't have those things however, only the power. You have to have them before you're labeled an Emperor, not after.

lol title God given to Ussop wasn't a feat.
Irrelevant to Mihawk's title.


Thing is there is also Garp who could have got WSM but the title was passed to WB. and whenever we make a top ten list we put Garp, Roger n WB in same tier. This itself proves titles doesn't help.
Oh for the love of God, did you miss where I said you can be in the same tier as someone and still be weaker than them? You blind?

Yes he can but Marines doesn't consider him as a Yonko worthy candidate. It would have been a different thing if Mihawk said I didnt want Yonko status but that's also not the case.
Because he lacks territory and militia, how many times you gotta be informed of this before you remember it like an ordinary person?
Marines could have also send Mihawk to plug the hole which WB left after his demise but they didn't n let BB took WB's terittory which is enough to prove Marines dont see Mihawk as a potent candidate for Yonko title.
The...Marines can't do this? lmao what manga are you reading yo
 

Skull Knight

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No boy, Barto and Cavendish are the ones spreading Luffy's flag. His militia consists of the entire Strawhat Grand Fleet.
I googled n tried to find Cavendish cover page n saw he isn't fighting with anyone just sailing.
So its Barto only who is fighting


Your point...being?
Okay, the wound healed. Still doesn't change my point that the WB pirates took more damage than the Marines did.
See they had equal number of casualties. if they kept on fighting, Marines would have suffered a lot i.e why Coby intervene and Shanks was able to convince Sengoku to stop the war.
Yeah, that's what I said. If the WG gave that title to Mihawk, he'd be someone with those things. He doesn't have those things however, only the power. You have to have them before you're labeled an Emperor, not after.
Because he lacks territory and militia, how many times you gotta be informed of this before you remember it like an ordinary person?

The...Marines can't do this? lmao what manga are you reading yo
Even BB didn't have any terittory or militia. He definitely grab WB's terittory that too when Marco lost. Even the new guys who are joining and making his fleet has no relation to WB. So if Marines/WG thinks Mihawk had that sort of capability then they would have pushed him to fill WB's position like they did with Shichibukai's considering the fact that caos erupted after WB's demise.



Oh for the love of God, did you miss where I said you can be in the same tier as someone and still be weaker than them? You blind?
So here's another tricky question is WSM WB above Garp or not???
 

Punk Hazard

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I googled n tried to find Cavendish cover page n saw he isn't fighting with anyone just sailing.
So its Barto only who is fighting
I didn't say Cavendish was fighting anyone.

See they had equal number of casualties. if they kept on fighting, Marines would have suffered a lot i.e why Coby intervene and Shanks was able to convince Sengoku to stop the war.
Except they didn't because no one on the Marine side were critically injured. Even if Marco healed the injuries, he was still critically injured in the first place.

Even BB didn't have any terittory or militia.
Bro what the **** are you saying??? BB became an Emperor AFTER he got these things.

He definitely grab WB's terittory that too when Marco lost. Even the new guys who are joining and making his fleet has no relation to WB. So if Marines/WG thinks Mihawk had that sort of capability then they would have pushed him to fill WB's position like they did with Shichibukai's considering the fact that caos erupted after WB's demise.
Why would they ask their strongest Warlord to leave his alliance with them and go into a position that would require him to act on his own? The entire point of the Shichibukai is that they're not supposed to claim territory the way Yonko and other pirates do.


So here's another tricky question is WSM WB above Garp or not???
Obviously.
 

Uzumaki Macho

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So its barto n Cavendish. not much militia



after Akainu fell it was clearly said he is just getting started

He continued destroying MF till BB showed up


He did

You can clearly see he was all healed up



that people continue joining Yonkos so if Marines bestowed the title upon Mihawk he would have militia, islands and power.




lol title God given to Ussop wasn't a feat.



Thing is there is also Garp who could have got WSM but the title was passed to WB. and whenever we make a top ten list we put Garp, Roger n WB in same tier. This itself proves titles doesn't help.



Yes he can but Marines doesn't consider him as a Yonko worthy candidate. It would have been a different thing if Mihawk said I didnt want Yonko status but that's also not the case.
Marines could have also send Mihawk to plug the hole which WB left after his demise but they didn't n let BB took WB's terittory which is enough to prove Marines dont see Mihawk as a potent candidate for Yonko title.


But that didn't happen. Shanks WB clash created rift in sky whereas Mihawk never got another chance to even attack WB.
Mihawk can't claim any territory outside of his island because he doesn't have a crew, and you need a substantial amount of territory to become a Yonko. No matter how strong Mihawk is, it's impossible for him to become a Yonko since he can't effectively govern several island because he doesn't have any subordinates who can enforce his rule over any of the territories he claims.
 

HowDidIGetPrem

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It's not really a good point since it's moving the goalposts.

They originally said no one has shown what Shanks did: Affecting things physically with Conqueror's. That was the argument they were using, and when they were shown Luffy and Doffy pushing Law away and Luffy and Katakuri breaking apart rocks, they changed their argument, both of which still fail to prove their point because:

1. Shanks cracking that small part of WB's ship doesn't compare to the damage Luffy and Katakuri did. Divide what Luffy and Katakuri did equally between them, and it's still better than a crack smaller than someone's head on a wooden barricade that didn't even go through the entire thing

2. Shanks and Whitebeard splitting the sky is far more impressive than Luffy and Katakuri, but the argument they made was that "No one except for Shanks has done that by himself!" so using something he did while clashing with WB doesn't help that argument.
He didn't move the goal post. No one has actually shown what Shanks did alone, and Point 2 is exactly why he's justified. If we're to assume both WB and Shanks' conqueror's hakis were equal during that clash, both of them should be performing that same pitiful, boat-ripping feat. Divide the cloud splitting they did by 2, 3, 4, I'm willing to go on, and it's still questionable if it'd be as pitiful as the boat-ripping. That's why I don't believe Point 1's "divide by 2" can actually be argued. Going along those same lines, Luffy nor Kata have shown environmental damage themselves. So how is it that they could contribute as much as they did when combined? Clashes clearly amplify the environmental damage past a sum of the individual two.

The biggest question to this that could possibly be posed is whether what Shanks did is actually out of Luffy's current reach or not. You could easily argue that Shanks wasn't putting his all into the boat-tearing and be right, then lead up with a "so Luffy could possibly replicate one of his more casual feats" or "WB and Shanks conqueror's hakis aren't limited to scratching boats, so it's wrong to assume the effort/power they put into the clash was limited/equal to scratching boats." But you're going to struggle finding Luffy harming the environment alone despite the fact that he has once thrown in enough effort to knock out 50,000 fishmen.
 
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LBeezy

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Bro it's in the panel he posted above with Luffy and Katakuri...you and Skull Knight are just embarrassing yourselves at this point
Lmao what are you talking about bro? You must be trolling me right now.. I asked for proof of one character causing physical damage to something with only their Conquerors Haki alone..

Only Shanks has shown this feat so far in the manga so not only is it unique it is impressive as well.. I was just curious as to why someone would want to downplay it or hate on it.. like Minamoto Teh First said, it appeared as though Shanks was damaging the ship casually at that.. it's a cool moment in the story.. I just didn't see why it was being taken so lightly..
 

Sakazuki

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Step your reading comprehension up.



We see Cavendish doing this as well.



This refutes nothing I said.



Except he didn't heal since he still had the bleeding wounds.



And the relevance of this is?



Yes they are.


No? LMAO you have to be trolling with this blatant inability to read.


Y-Yes? If two people are of equal strength and they're alive at the same time, neither of them would be the WSM...the title wouldn't exist until after one of them died. If WB became PK and died, Roger would be the WSM instead. What exactly do you falsely think this proves?


Just because you're incapable of understanding what the title means doesn't mean it doesn't mean what it means.


The fact that Mihawk is regarded as the most powerful swordsman even after Shanks does these things just means that these feats can be attributed to Mihawk as well.

Shanks clashing with the WSM just means Mihawk would be capable of the same thing because he's still regarded as more powerful. Same for anything else Shanks does until it's demonstrated that Mihawk's title doesn't apply to Shanks, and that hasn't happened.


And on the other hand, Mihawk has demonstrated power on the level of Emperors and Admirals during these same events. Jozu blocking Mihawk's slash can easily be attributed to being similar to Daz Bones blocked a slash like it was nothing and was then cut down by the very next one and couldn't fight anymore. Just because Jozo blocked one doesn't mean he could have blocked a second one right after, nor does it mean Mihawk was going all out.



No, it just means that whatever Shanks can do, Mihawk can do better. It can be an extreme diff fight, Mihawk's title just means he has a better chance of winning.


"It's basic portrayal and common sense" while ignoring that the title of WSS has been a part of Mihawk's portrayal and has been consistently upheld by the author all the way into the current manga. You're playing favorites.


This argument doesn't work because WE know that the circumstances behind this means it's not true. There is no evidence that the same thing can be said about Mihawk's title. Because by the same measure, I can say shit like "Shanks' status as an Emperor is false because the circumstances that got him his title could be dubious like Luffy's."

Just because SOME events in the manga aren't valid because of dubious circumstances doesn't mean you can use that as an argument against EVERY event in the manga. You can use that as a reason for doubt, but not as a reason for dismissal.



That wasn't the point of my argument, Einstein. That's just an example of how Mihawk's title can remain in place without fighting Shanks directly.


I never said I blindly believe everything Oda says. I have said it before in this sub, time and time again, that you've seen me say(which makes this argument from you just pathetic), that the CURRENT manga puts Mihawk above Shanks. I have acknowledged that this could change to show that Shanks is exempt from Mihawk's title or that Mihawk's title is invalid for one reason or another, but that can be said about ANYTHING in the manga, making it an invalid argument. Until the manga shows that Mihawk's title doesn't apply to Shanks, it will apply to Shanks. It's that simple.
This thread is about zoro and luffy , not shanks and mihawk. Pipe down
 
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