[Discussion] Is Luffy way stronger than Zoro?

MickNerks

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Why is tearing at a ship with his haki considered impressive?
Because no one else has been able to use haki at a level where it damages the environment around them

Cause no one else has been able to do something like that with kings haki
Exactly

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These are TWO peoples Haki clashing to cause an effect to the environment. Shanks did this by himself!!! No other character in the manga has shown these feats.

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^^^ Same reply as above
 
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HowDidIGetPrem

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Because no one else has been able to use haki at a level where it damages the environment around them



Exactly



These are TWO peoples Haki clashing to cause an effect to the environment. Shanks did this by himself!!! No other character in the manga has shown these feats. Even in Big Moms case it was the shockwaves of her scream that blew people away.



These are TWO peoples Haki clashing to cause an effect to the environment. Shanks did this by himself!!! No other character in the manga has shown these feats. Even in Big Moms case it was the shockwaves of her scream that blew people away.
Boi. You see that. I see that. He sees that. She sees that. We all see that panel. Whether it's two guys putting their haki together or not, the space it encompasses and the damage it does are both well above what Shanks did to WB's boat. Multitudes above what Shanks did with just two participants.
 

LBeezy

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Boi. You see that. I see that. He sees that. She sees that. We all see that panel. Whether it's two guys putting their haki together or not, the space it encompasses and the damage it does are both well above what Shanks did to WB's boat. Multitudes above what Shanks did with just two participants.
I'm not sure why you're trying to downplay Shanks' haki feat.. literally not one other character has shown a similar feat by just walking alone..

TWO characters clashing with conquerors Haki is a separate thing.. you can compare that to Shanks and Whitebeard splitting the clouds in the sky if you want.. and even then the Shanks and WB scene has still yet to be replicated by any other characters so far.

Shanks damaging the ship while simply just walking by himself is impressive dude..
 

Uzumaki Macho

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I'm not sure why you're trying to downplay Shanks' haki feat.. literally not one other character has shown a similar feat by just walking alone..

TWO characters clashing with conquerors Haki is a separate thing.. you can compare that to Shanks and Whitebeard splitting the clouds in the sky if you want.. and even then the Shanks and WB scene has still yet to be replicated by any other characters so far.

Shanks damaging the ship while simply just walking by himself is impressive dude..
Breaking stone >>>> cracking wood.
 

LBeezy

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2 CoC users breaking large stones is more impressive than 1 CoC cracking wood.
So it never happened? That's what I thought.

Shanks feat is impressive bruh. Plain and simple. There's no reason to hate on it or downplay it.

NO other character has replicated his feat. Yall comparing 2 characters Conquerors haki clashing.. that's comparable to Shanks AND WB splitting the sky.. and splitting the clouds in the sky above you is more impressive than breaking stones that are close to you..
 

Punk Hazard

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So it never happened? That's what I thought.

Shanks feat is impressive bruh. Plain and simple. There's no reason to hate on it or downplay it.

NO other character has replicated his feat. Yall comparing 2 characters Conquerors haki clashing.. that's comparable to Shanks AND WB splitting the sky.. and splitting the clouds in the sky above you is more impressive than breaking stones that are close to you..
Bro it's in the panel he posted above with Luffy and Katakuri...you and Skull Knight are just embarrassing yourselves at this point
 

HowDidIGetPrem

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Bro it's in the panel he posted above with Luffy and Katakuri...you and Skull Knight are just embarrassing yourselves at this point
He has a point though. Shanks and WB parting the clouds was far more impressive than what we saw Luffy and Kata do. Not even the screeching that Luffy and Doffy sent throughout the city disturbed the clouds(you can see them in later panels). The most reasonable assumption is that the effect of two conqueror's hakis clashing is faaaaaaaarrrrrrrr more volatile than either one alone, explaining why Luffy's clashes could show superior feats. Tearing at a ship is still trash tho.
 

Punk Hazard

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He has a point though. Shanks and WB parting the clouds was far more impressive than what we saw Luffy and Kata do. Not even the screeching that Luffy and Doffy sent throughout the city disturbed the clouds(you can see them in later panels). The most reasonable assumption is that the effect of two conqueror's hakis clashing is faaaaaaaarrrrrrrr more volatile than either one alone, explaining why Luffy's clashes could show superior feats. Tearing at a ship is still trash tho.
It's not really a good point since it's moving the goalposts.

They originally said no one has shown what Shanks did: Affecting things physically with Conqueror's. That was the argument they were using, and when they were shown Luffy and Doffy pushing Law away and Luffy and Katakuri breaking apart rocks, they changed their argument, both of which still fail to prove their point because:

1. Shanks cracking that small part of WB's ship doesn't compare to the damage Luffy and Katakuri did. Divide what Luffy and Katakuri did equally between them, and it's still better than a crack smaller than someone's head on a wooden barricade that didn't even go through the entire thing

2. Shanks and Whitebeard splitting the sky is far more impressive than Luffy and Katakuri, but the argument they made was that "No one except for Shanks has done that by himself!" so using something he did while clashing with WB doesn't help that argument.

Lol we embarrassing ourselves just because we don't agree with Riker :lmao:
I guess soon people will start putting WB above Roger as WB was WSM.
You're embarrassing yourself for showing a clear inability to comprehend what you read and posting the exact same refuted arguments over and over.

That second part is an incredible strawman, since it has nothing to do with anything I said in this thread nor did I say anything like that.
 

Skull Knight

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You're embarrassing yourself for showing a clear inability to comprehend what you read and posting the exact same refuted arguments over and over.
Refuted. Lol there are so many titles given to so many attacks n guys which didn't showed anything unique but u still stick with the logic that Mihawk's title puts him above Shanks. Heck the so called Yonko lvl guy needs to check his strength against another Yonko itself shows that he himself doesn't consider to be Yonko tier.

That second part is an incredible strawman, since it has nothing to do with anything I said in this thread nor did I say anything like that.
Second part shows hypocrisy where people puts Prime WB n Roger in same tier even tho WB had WSM title but when it comes to Shanks n Mihawk then they will put Mihawk above Shanks.
 

Punk Hazard

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Lol Buggys has territory. Every Shichibukais has territory n Morgan telling the report n calling him Emperor is based on the fact what he saw n heard in Cake island i.e Luffy's beating 2commanders n escaped from a Yonko i.e why he is supposedly said 5th Emperor.
He doesn't know about FI.
And if somebody defeats Yonkos right hand then he is obviously a serious threat to WG.
Jesus Christ almi-

You need Emperor level strength AND Emperor level territory AND Emperor level militia ALL AT THE SAME TIME to be considered Emperor level.

If you have 1 or 2 of those things, but not all three, AT THE SAME TIME, you will not be considered an Emperor.

There's no way to make it simpler for you to understand.


Marines suffered a lot:
3/5 Admirals were injured, VC were badly injured, Moria was also not in his best shape that's y when a 2nd fresh Yonko showed up they had to stop the war.
A bloody lip is nowhere close to the level of injury the Whitebeard Pirates withstood as a result of the war. Sengoku was injured by Blackbeard, not one of the WB pirates, so that doesn't get attributed to them. Akainu took the worst injuries and that was only because WB had to jump him first, and it didn't even weaken him. They didn't suffer shit.

Marines mission was to execute Ace which almost got screwed the moment his handcuffs were removed.
Casualties happened in both sides that's y Coby tried to stop Akainu.
Both sides suffered a lot. It wasn't a overwhelming Victory as WB pirates had a huge opportunity to escape with Ace if he didn't went back.
Casualties happened on both sides, but that's fodder. You gotta compare the injuries to major players to accurately gauge how much one side lost and how much one side won, and Marine HQ won by a landslide.

We haven't even seen what type of islands Shanks got since last time he was chilling in an island basically had no people other than his crew n Mihawk.
We also saw guys becoming allies with Yonkos like BB after he got his title so if WG thought he was Yonko lvl worthy then they had given him a Emperor title. Heck somebody like Morgan got so much impress from Luffy that he gave him a title but not Mihawk who supposedly shook Grand line fighting Shanks.
Because Mihawk doesn't have a militia and no substantial territory, genius. We've seen that Shanks has territory with populations in Bartolomeo's cover story when he took his island for Luffy.

Mihawk's feat was only cutting the ice mountain which is pretty much similar to Shanks making heavens split.
"Mihawk's only feat is matching up to the thing Shanks did that I was jerking off over with LBeezy and the others, but Mihawk isn't on Shanks' level."

It's not that Mihawk's WSS has no meaning or something like that. We know all these titles are based on rumours n fodders creations like God, World Strongest Slash, king Punch etc.
Even the simple fact that title holders lost multiple times strengthen the case that these titles doesn't put someone above other just because of the title he holds.
Mihawk's title is on a higher level of importance than things like King's Punch, God, and the world's strongest slash comment. How many times does this have to be explained to you before you comprehend something so simple? The fact that it's been reinforced by Oda, significant characters, and the plot of the story is proof of this.

1)WB entered MF with his title. In mid of a war he decides to relinquish his title doesn't mean he lost half his strength or something like that. He still had his strength i.e why he was able to.stop a ship by one hand n basically destroying MF at his own will. He even said he will stop Marines while others can escape.
And was going to utterly fail at any of this shit. WB's title was only attributed to him because people didn't know he was ill. WB denounced his title at MF, but it didn't apply to him long before tha.

what I was saying is whatever Mihawk showed has been already demonstrated by Shanks.
And by the current story, anything Shanks can be can be attributed to Mihawk, but better. It's that simple.

Refuted. Lol there are so many titles given to so many attacks n guys which didn't showed anything unique but u still stick with the logic that Mihawk's title puts him above Shanks.
Because Mihawk's title is on a higher level, being reinforced by Oda and plot relevance.

Heck the so called Yonko lvl guy needs to check his strength against another Yonko itself shows that he himself doesn't consider to be Yonko tier.
Untrue. Just because you're on someone's level doesn't mean you're equally strong as as them. Mihawk can be on WB's level while being weaker than WB. Mihawk, as said himself, wanted to test the difference between himself and WB. He can be on his level with a difference.


Second part shows hypocrisy where people puts Prime WB n Roger in same tier even tho WB had WSM title but when it comes to Shanks n Mihawk then they will put Mihawk above Shanks.
Because Mihawk has his title while he and Shanks are simultaneously active, while there is no indication that WB had the WSM title while Roger was still alive? There is no hypocrisy here.
 
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Skull Knight

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Jesus Christ almi-

You need Emperor level strength AND Emperor level territory AND Emperor level militia ALL AT THE SAME TIME to be considered Emperor level.

If you have 1 or 2 of those things, but not all three, AT THE SAME TIME, you will not be considered an Emperor.

There's no way to make it simpler for you to understand
Let's be honest what lvl of Emperor territory u think Luffy got???
It's literally nothing still u claim he has Emperor lvl territory which is untrue.
Coming to the second point Militia is already seen back at Dressrosa by all the Marines. No title given him there.
Lastly it was his strength that was one of the prime reason yes it was stressed that he defeated 2commanders made Morgan say 5th Emperor has appeared.

A bloody lip is nowhere close to the level of injury the Whitebeard Pirates withstood as a result of the war. Sengoku was injured by Blackbeard, not one of the WB pirates, so that doesn't get attributed to them. Akainu took the worst injuries and that was only because WB had to jump him first, and it didn't even weaken him. They didn't suffer shit.
U don't want to count Sengoku but u will count WBs death even tho BB was the reason behind both of the case.
3/5admirals we're injured and they don't have enough firepower to face another.
Casualties happened on both sides, but that's fodder. You gotta compare the injuries to major players to accurately gauge how much one side lost and how much one side won, and Marine HQ won by a landslide.
3/5 Admirals injured. Your point Akainu came back so as Marco too.
Marines only won because Ace protected his brother n died for him. If he had followed WBs order than Marines would not have even finished what they started.
Because Mihawk doesn't have a militia and no substantial territory, genius. We've seen that Shanks has territory with populations in Bartolomeo's cover story when he took his island for Luffy.


"Mihawk's only feat is matching up to the thing Shanks did that I was jerking off over with LBeezy and the others, but Mihawk isn't on Shanks' level."
Mihawk doesn't have substantial territory as if Luffy has lots of islands :lmao:
Allies keeps joining strong guys as we seen with BB. If Marines think he is Yonko lvl they would have given him the title.

Mihawk's title is on a higher level of importance than things like King's Punch, God, and the world's strongest slash comment. How many times does this have to be explained to you before you comprehend something so simple? The fact that it's been reinforced by Oda, significant characters, and the plot of the story is proof of this.
They are all titles written by Oda. And it's clear that they doesn't showed anything unique.
And was going to utterly fail at any of this shit. WB's title was only attributed to him because people didn't know he was ill. WB denounced his title at MF, but it didn't apply to him long before tha.
WB was sick way back.Even when he clashed with Shanks n split heaven he didn't renounced his title. He didn't loose any strength even when he renounced his title (stopped a ship with one hand). Title logic hardly helped him beating any of his opponents 1vs1.
And by the current story, anything Shanks can be can be attributed to Mihawk, but better. It's that simple.



Because Mihawk's title is on a higher level, being reinforced by Oda and plot relevance.
Feats that shows Mihawk has better feats(don't give the ice cutting feat which u think Aokiji had some unique ice)
Untrue. Just because you're on someone's level doesn't mean you're equally strong as as them. Mihawk can be on WB's level while being weaker than WB. Mihawk, as said himself, wanted to test the difference between himself and WB. He can be on his level with a difference.
Lol normally the weaker guy wants to test his strength against the superior ones. If u don't agree then your basically arguing for argument sake.


Because Mihawk has his title while he and Shanks are simultaneously active, while there is no indication that WB had the WSM title while Roger was still alive? There is no hypocrisy here.
That was Prime WB in Rogers era. Roger was even ready to tell him OP location. U seriously don't think WB got the title when he became sick.
Let's for argument sake consider WB got the title after Roger's death. Do u consider WSM WB above Roger???
 

Punk Hazard

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Let's be honest what lvl of Emperor territory u think Luffy got???
Fishman Island is considered one of the most significant islands in the entire world and his fleet has been spreading his flag, so there are islands we don't even know about, but know likely are claimed for him. Try again.

Coming to the second point Militia is already seen back at Dressrosa by all the Marines. No title given him there.
Because his fleet weren't claiming islands for him yet and he hadn't demonstrated Emperor level power yet. They also didn't know about the crews allying to him.

U don't want to count Sengoku but u will count WBs death even tho BB was the reason behind both of the case.
3/5admirals we're injured and they don't have enough firepower to face another.
Because Whitebeard was going to die even without Blackbeard being there? Marines still had Aokiji, Kizaru, Akainu, Sengoku, Garp, and the Shichibukai who all have considerable power(including the Emperor level Mihawk).

3/5 Admirals injured. Your point Akainu came back so as Marco too.
Marines only won because Ace protected his brother n died for him. If he had followed WBs order than Marines would not have even finished what they started.
Except Marco and Jozu were all critically injured before Ace even escaped.

Mihawk doesn't have substantial territory as if Luffy has lots of islands :lmao:
Allies keeps joining strong guys as we seen with BB. If Marines think he is Yonko lvl they would have given him the title.
You mean like they ended up doing once he stole WB's territory and displayed his power by defeating the WB pirates?

They are all titles written by Oda. And it's clear that they doesn't showed anything unique.
But not REINFORCED by Oda like WSS has been. Don't even try this fallacy.

WB was sick way back.Even when he clashed with Shanks n split heaven he didn't renounced his title. He didn't loose any strength even when he renounced his title (stopped a ship with one hand). Title logic hardly helped him beating any of his opponents 1vs1.
Why would WB renounce his title at any of those points....? WB renounced his title at MF because everyone was acting shocked that he was stabbed by Squard due to his old reputation.

Feats that shows Mihawk has better feats(don't give the ice cutting feat which u think Aokiji had some unique ice)
By Mihawk's title, Einstein.

Lol normally the weaker guy wants to test his strength against the superior ones. If u don't agree then your basically arguing for argument sake.
Like I said before, people still believed in WB's reputation, not knowing he had grown weaker because he kept his illness a secret. Like I also said before, being weaker than someone doesn't mean you're not on their level. If WB was a 100 and Mihawk was a 98, he'd still be on WB's level despite being weaker. Understand?

That was Prime WB in Rogers era. Roger was even ready to tell him OP location. U seriously don't think WB got the title when he became sick.
Bitch, WHAT? Roger died before WB became sick, and WB more than likely got the title because his equal died.
 

Skull Knight

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Fishman Island is considered one of the most significant islands in the entire world and his fleet has been spreading his flag, so there are islands we don't even know about, but know likely are claimed for him. Try again.
What islands???
Because his fleet weren't claiming islands for him yet and he hadn't demonstrated Emperor level power yet. They also didn't know about the crews allying to him.
Lol there was a freaking giant carrying him.
Sai and Leo hasn't done anything (if I m not wrong) and Hajrudin just left Buggy. Only Barto fighting in Shanks territory.

Because Whitebeard was going to die even without Blackbeard being there? Marines still had Aokiji, Kizaru, Akainu, Sengoku, Garp, and the Shichibukai who all have considerable power(including the Emperor level Mihawk).
Akainu wasn't there when WB died. He was pinned to ground n only returned after BB killed WB.
Yes WB was ready to sacrifice himself on the expense that his crew would escape MF. Still u can't say that BB didn't played any role as that WB was kicking Akainu's a**.
Except Marco and Jozu were all critically injured before Ace even escaped.
Marco even fought with Akainu after Ace death. His DF gives him healing.

You mean like they ended up doing once he stole WB's territory and displayed his power by defeating the WB pirates?
Recently we saw that guy who got his a** kicked by Revolutionaries. He wasn't part of WB. Yonkos intro said either u join them or fight against them duh...

But not REINFORCED by Oda like WSS has been. Don't even try this fallacy.
We are going round n round. They are still titles which oda wrote.

Why would WB renounce his title at any of those points....? WB renounced his title at MF because everyone was acting shocked that he was stabbed by Squard due to his old reputation.
Seriously even when WB n Shanks clashed there was a guy who said what Shanks is doing with WB. If he was weak n he realized it he would have relinquish earlier not in a mid of a war.

By Mihawaks title
That's hype which Shanks have more.

Like I said before, people still believed in WB's reputation, not knowing he had grown weaker because he kept his illness a secret. Like I also said before, being weaker than someone doesn't mean you're not on their level. If WB was a 100 and Mihawk was a 98, he'd still be on WB's level despite being weaker. Understand?
Ok so if Shanks is 100 n Mihawk is 98 we will consider them both on same lvl but if we interchange Mihawk to 100 n Shanks at 98 then Mihawk is ahead of Shanks???
Let's also not forget Shanks showed equal strength when he clashed with WB.

Bitch, WHAT? Roger died before WB became sick, and WB more than likely got the title because his equal died.
I asked u one question WSM WB is he above Roger or not???

He asked for proof on FEATS that puts Mihawk above Shanks. Not a title based on hype and nothing else.
They have none :elmo:
 

Punk Hazard

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He asked for proof on FEATS that puts Mihawk above Shanks. Not a title based on hype and nothing else.
Yeah, except achieving that title IS a feat.

What islands???
MFW what you quoted answers this question.

Lol there was a freaking giant carrying him.
Sai and Leo hasn't done anything (if I m not wrong) and Hajrudin just left Buggy. Only Barto fighting in Shanks territory.
A giant carrying Luffy is NOT the same thing as that giant being affiliated with Luffy's crew. Crocodile helped Luffy at Marineford, is he considered an affiliate of the SH pirates? No. The WG did not know that those crews adopted Luffy's flag until after Dressrosa.

Akainu wasn't there when WB died. He was pinned to ground n only returned after BB killed WB.
He was traveling underground to get to Luffy. He was still there, however, along with five other people on WB's level. He was dying anyway.

Yes WB was ready to sacrifice himself on the expense that his crew would escape MF. Still u can't say that BB didn't played any role as that WB was kicking Akainu's a**.
Jumped Akainu and failed to put him down, you mean.

Marco even fought with Akainu after Ace death. His DF gives him healing.
Good for him, still was no match for Akainu as the war went on and was still critically injured.

Recently we saw that guy who got his a** kicked by Revolutionaries. He wasn't part of WB. Yonkos intro said either u join them or fight against them duh...
Blackbeard? Blackbeard didn't get his ass kicked by anybody? He destroyed Baltigo. What manga are you reading?

We are going round n round. They are still titles which oda wrote.
There is a difference between a title being written by Oda through characters that are meant to be taken seriously and as fact(like WSM, WSC, WSS) and titles that are written to just be "something a character has said."

It's the same difference between Oda writing Enel say that he's a god, and Oda writing Garp say the Yonko are the four greatest pirates. One isn't meant to be taken as fact, one is. WSS clearly falls into the latter category, as Oda reinforced it through the volume issues, making it the main dream of a main character, and comments in SBS where he considers Mihawk in the same class of character as Whitebeard and Shanks.


Seriously even when WB n Shanks clashed there was a guy who said what Shanks is doing with WB. If he was weak n he realized it he would have relinquish earlier not in a mid of a war.
What....

That's hype which Shanks have more.
Shanks does not and it's a feat.

Ok so if Shanks is 100 n Mihawk is 98 we will consider them both on same lvl but if we interchange Mihawk to 100 n Shanks at 98 then Mihawk is ahead of Shanks???
Dude are you an idiot? If Character A is 100 and Character B is 98, then Character A is obviously ahead of Character B because 100 is fucking bigger than 98. You can be ahead of someone and be on the same level as them.

I asked u one question WSM WB is he above Roger or not???
I answered that question, scholar.
 

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They haven't fought each other in several years, so how is it reasonable to say that just because he claims the title of WSS today that he is above someone who he hasn't clashed swords with in a very long time?
And why does Shanks get the benefit of the doubt over Mihawk then?
 

Punk Hazard

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They haven't fought each other in several years, so how is it reasonable to say that just because he claims the title of WSS today that he is above someone who he hasn't clashed swords with in a very long time?
Because you don't need to fight someone for the world to know you're stronger. If Shanks gets into a major fight and shows less power in that fight than Mihawk has in another, then the world can know he's stronger. The fact that Oda himself continues to assert Mihawk as the WSS is proof enough.
 
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