The same Gai has 50 wins and 49 losses as stated
Not interested in debating with you, so i'd just reply to this. It's not lying when you truly believe in something. I truly believed that it was possible for 8G Gai to be = Base Gai in reaction speed, with the possible exception of first and second gate increasing the reaction due to being a gate released at the brain level and i never saw any arguments that convinced me otherwise, so i continue to believe this
He said "50-49" before saying this, which shows that he was basing this on their contests Kakashi was never interested in and where there were many paper-rock scissors among them. It's in terms of actual battles where Gai himself admitted Kakashi had always been a step ahead of him
The scan where he explains how he changed his fighting style to combat the sharingan, he is full grown man(27 or so). Besides, you're missing the point. It was to show that from their youth to the war arc, Kakashi was always shown as the superior one until the final gate. Show me a scan where Gai defeats Kakashi
Except he isn't. The only reason Gai shined more than the rest against JJ Madara is because only taijutsu and senjutsu could work against him. Gai is a taijutsu specialist when Kakashi is a ninjutsu specialist, but it seems that here on narutobase, the only ninja art that exist is taijutsu, ignoring fundamentals like ninjutsu and genjutus. And what did 7th gate Gai even do? JJ Madara countered all his attacks in the few seconds he was taking the offense, cut through his strongest and fastest move(hirudora) and was about to one shot him if Lee and co didn't come to save him
Did you miss the panel where 14 yo Gai is aiming at more hot-blooded battles or the one where he implies to have been trolled by the Sharingan enough to change his fighting style completely comparatively to it?
Black Zetsu was talking comparatively to Sasuke, which true enough was invincible comparatively to him
He never said that.
On your scan: "Kakashi hasnt surpassed us" Either you believe Kakashi hasnt surpassed Lee and TenTen too or you believe its a translator error. In my country official release he literally said" Kakashi hasnt passed us yet" but i dont have english viz books so i cant show how it is in them.
Yes Gai did change his style in order to beat Kakashi . But his opinion is made based on their contests. And we know their contest was eating,rock papper, running,throwing shuriken.
Same here because we know how it always goes when we debate. One side is always the correct side based on raw manga evidence. Mine and you always complain of the "Majority". Last time I checked, you conceded.
Read because this doesn't prove your point. "We're nearly even" with Gai being ahead later on. 50-49. With Gai eventually becoming stronger after that statement was made. You have no point because that statement doesn't exactly disprove what I said, Gai could have been slightly above but they could still be nearly even otherwise he won't be using such an example for Lee who he's encouraging to believe he can defeat people like Neji. Nevertheless, it was revealed after that Gai was indeed stronger. The Manga has outright made it known to us that Gai is stronger. If we're speaking of their battles, then include the rock paper scissors rubbish battles. If we're speaking of actual strength, ask Sasuke who confirmed Gai is stronger than Kakashi.
Viz. I just need that and I'll agree because the "us" could also be an error.
Lets play your game: i need ViZ to get it proven that "us" is just a mistranslation. Since you were making the initial claim with this sentence its not legal to claim that the first part of the sentence which is in your favor is correct but the other is not just because it doesnt fit to your claim.
Lol. You're not properly distinguishing what's in movement and whats not. First scan, Kisame swings first. Next one over, the only things we see in movement are Gai's body and legs, as well as Kisame's arm and Samehada. So Kisame slightly altered his body position off panel, before Gai initiated his strike. Next page over, Kisame didn't complete his thought before getting hit, never mind even slightly making a physical reaction.
Hardly anything to do with my point, but thanks.
And then when you apply common sense to the very few relevant manga pages that Bogard linked, you'd conclude that their sparring battles obviously doesn't include going all out with use of one shot killing techniques such as Kamui and Hirudora. It's a reason why Kakashi supporters don't ever want to debate feats, but rather unqualified portrayal arguments based on friendly sparring rivalry matches.
Then it is what it is. Period. He used surpassed so till you show me the viz, there's no talk here. All I asked for but you won't show me. No one has access to the viz easily so we use what we can get. If you can't show me, then I can't just agree with you like that.
You already know that "look cool" claim is terrible? Come on. Sasuke said to himself it was true. Lets not try and argue this at all. I can go ahead and say Kishi kept Gai out of Konoha's battle because you know what would have happened then. Gaara led the entire alliance so your division point is irrelevant unless you're implying Gaara is superior to all there. Kakashi remembered what his father said back then after seeing Night Gai so going by your logic, 8th Gate Gai inferior even with EE(That same Gai who Madara said used him further like Hashirama). Raikiri doesn't even enhance Kakashi compared to the Gates which unleashes extremely powerful techniques and boosts Gai to battle head on again Juubi Madara. We are both concluding such techniques weren't used in their rivalry but if we debate the abilities as shown in the Manga, Gai ends up being superior.
Point is, he saw Gai's movements, he completely turned his head/ body towards Gai's kick, but he couldn't block in time.
Heres the viz of the other scan.
Prove what point? You are bringing up points for Gai being superior, but when 2 of your major points are clearly not valid, I'm obviously going to call them out.
Dawg, Gai is initially infront of Kisame, Kisame is looking directly infront of him.
Viz scan proves your point in this case. Why do I need the viz? Well because you'll know the meaning of "surpassed" and that's the only access I have to right now. I'm not just taking your words without proof. Simple. Irrelevant anyways because it's over.
credit is being given. Minato doesn't have any long range jutsu and he didn't have madara marked. Gai is better than minato in close quarters unless marked. Kakashi does have long range jutsus. And not like gai did anything remarkable against madara, he almost died if not for lee. The difference between minato and gai is that had minato's rasengan connected, it would have damaged madara since it damaged obito. So madara countered him, While against gai madara underestimated him. He even outright said it that blue steam isn't going to cut it. So he wanted to see what gai can do. Do you honestly believe had madara tried to counter gai, he couldn't have? 30 kisame fought 6th gate and 100% kisame fought 7th gate. Now compare kisame and madara. And i know kisame lost but to strongest tech of 7th gate and that says something. Kisame also used ninjutsu you see which kakashi is quite an expert in plus he has sharingan for lil extra to match 7th gate unlike kisame.
Are you implying that 7th gate is on par with MS kakashi? Coz that is what most people on kakashi's side are debating for.
You don't have a valid point to begin with. You're claiming that Kisame initially ever so slightly reacted to Gai's kick when literally the next page over verifies that Kisame couldn't physically react, despite Gai's leg having to travel a farther distance to land contact then the page prior that you're referencing, where the leg has just begun to be swung. To put it better into perspective, you're claiming that Kisame was capable of slightly reacting to Gai's kick when it only travelled like a foot of distance, but then failed to move an inch the next page over where Gai's kick had to of travelled the remainder of the distance (a whole meter or so) to land contact. Doesn't make sense in the slightest. You're also claiming that Kisame at 30% of his capabilities could react to one the fastest strikers in the manga, who literally ignites fire out of air caused by friction of punching/kicking so fast. The logic isn't even there either. Even if you decide on further debating this, Gai's leg didn't ignite in that first scan. Which could mean that it wasn't traveling at top speed yet.
Kakashi is portrayed to be slightly superior based on their friendly rivalry matches. Translating this into a serious fight with actual killing intent and no restrictions is what's laughable. A good example being Rock Lee and Neji's rivalry. Neji and Rock Lee's matches would always end up in Neji winning against base Lee. Manga stated that Rock Lee would of defeated Neji in the preliminary Chuunin exams upon showcasing his gates and Ura Renge.
Lol hell no at the bold. 7TH Gate gai's feats = MS Kakashi in relevance. They are in the same tier battle wise, bu each one better for difference circumstances. Kakashi would've solo'd the Gedo Mazo if it wasn't saved by Madara lmao. Don't go saying that stuff just like that. They are portrayed as equals until 8th gate, and by feats that's a close call (which doesn't mean they stalemate in a battle)
