How can Kakashi beat Guy if he opens the 7th gate ?????

EZQ

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You don't have a valid point to begin with. You're claiming that Kisame initially ever so slightly reacted to Gai's kick when literally the next page over verifies that Kisame couldn't physically react, despite Gai's leg having to travel a farther distance to land contact then the page prior that you're referencing, where the leg has just begun to be swung. To put it better into perspective, you're claiming that Kisame was capable of slightly reacting to Gai's kick when it only travelled like a foot of distance, but then failed to move an inch the next page over where Gai's kick had to of travelled the remainder of the distance (a whole meter or so) to land contact. Doesn't make sense in the slightest. You're also claiming that Kisame at 30% of his capabilities could react to one the fastest strikers in the manga, who literally ignites fire out of air caused by friction of punching/kicking so fast. The logic isn't even there either. Even if you decide on further debating this, Gai's leg didn't ignite in that first scan. Which could mean that it wasn't traveling at top speed yet.

Kisames body was already put in that position by the time Gai shifted his body over and initiated his kick. Evident by distinguishing what's in movement in the actual scans. Okay, with the VIZ translation. Also, don't know what correlation this has with the topic of the thread. That Kakashi can contend with 6G Gai in CQC? Sure hope not.



Kakashi is portrayed to be slightly superior based on their friendly rivalry matches. Translating this into a serious fight with actual killing intent and no restrictions is what's laughable. A good example being Rock Lee and Neji's rivalry. Neji and Rock Lee's matches would always end up in Neji winning against base Lee. Manga stated that Rock Lee would of defeated Neji in the preliminary Chuunin exams upon showcasing his gates and Ura Renge.
In a battle Gai murks Kakashi. But being "equal to" or "superior to" is more like tier wise imo. In the war arc, both MS Kakashi and 7th gate Gai showed the same level overall, but each one in different circumstances. When Taijutsu was the only answer, Gai shined while Kakashi didn't, but when it came to brains... or using Kamui to almost solo the Gedo Mazo..

Tier wise i think they're in the same level. That's how i see them as equals. In a battle, Gai shits since his speed > Kamui, but put them against different opponents like Itachi, Sasuke, Nagato, and they both oppose a high treath to the enemy, with only small gaps between them.
 

ToshiZO

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You don't have a valid point to begin with. You're claiming that Kisame initially ever so slightly reacted to Gai's kick when literally the next page over verifies that Kisame couldn't physically react, despite Gai's leg having to travel a farther distance to land contact then the page prior that you're referencing, where the leg has just begun to be swung. To put it better into perspective, you're claiming that Kisame was capable of slightly reacting to Gai's kick when it only travelled like a foot of distance, but then failed to move an inch the next page over where Gai's kick had to of travelled the remainder of the distance (a whole meter or so) to land contact. Doesn't make sense in the slightest. You're also claiming that Kisame at 30% of his capabilities could react to one the fastest strikers in the manga, who literally ignites fire out of air caused by friction of punching/kicking so fast. The logic isn't even there either. Even if you decide on further debating this, Gai's leg didn't ignite in that first scan. Which could mean that it wasn't traveling at top speed yet.

Kisames body was already put in that position by the time Gai shifted his body over and initiated his kick. Evident by distinguishing what's in movement in the actual scans. Okay, with the VIZ translation. Also, don't know what correlation this has with the topic of the thread. That Kakashi can contend with 6G Gai in CQC? Sure hope not.



Kakashi is portrayed to be slightly superior based on their friendly rivalry matches. Translating this into a serious fight with actual killing intent and no restrictions is what's laughable. A good example being Rock Lee and Neji's rivalry. Neji and Rock Lee's matches would always end up in Neji winning against base Lee. Manga stated that Rock Lee would of defeated Neji in the preliminary Chuunin exams upon showcasing his gates and Ura Renge.
Kisame didn't truly react. Reacting means he could do something about it in my books. But he most definitely saw the kick coming, and even turned his head towards it.

And why would his head be in the kicks direction before Gai initiates it lmfao?

Does Kisame have sharingan precognition, where he moves his head towards a nonexistent kick?

He saw the kick coming and even shifted his head towards it. Speeds vary, Gai's kick simply too fast to dodge, but it wasn't fast enough not to see coming, or even for Kisame to shift towards it.

Your original post which I replied to was saying Kisame couldn't even mentally react, which is a far cry from what actually happened.
 
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BenjerminGaye

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Dawg, Gai is initially infront of Kisame, Kisame is looking directly infront of him.

The kick comes from the side. Kisame was initially facing straight, he obviously turned his head to where the kick was coming from, its really not that hard to understand.

Look at where his eyes and head are facing in the first scan vs the next.

If he didn't move, his head would still be in the direction of his swing. But it clearly isn't in the same position. If it were it would look more like this.
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Instead of this
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If he didn't turn his head, the kick would hit him from the side of his cheeks (because it came from the side)
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Not square in the nose
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No, stop it. Turning your head doesn't count as a physical reaction.

Garra put his hands up lee's 5th gate but its illogical as fck to say he reacted to it:

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ToshiZO

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No, stop it. Turning your head doesn't count as a physical reaction.

Garra put his hands up lee's 5th gate but its illogical as fck to say he reacted to it:

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Can you stop acting like thats what I said?


This is what I replied to

kismae didn't move while getting kicked. his entire body remained is the same position the moment guy initiated the kick.
Now you completely turn this into something else, about the "definition of a physical reaction", when that is not even what you said in your prior post, and not what I was talking about to begin with.
 

BenjerminGaye

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Can you stop acting like thats what I said?


This is what I replied to



Now you completely turn this into something else, about the "definition of a physical reaction", when that is not even what you said in your prior post, and not what I was talking about to begin with.
Ok fine since you're arguing semantics. I don't count "turning your head" as moving. I can even make the argument that he didn't turn his head, just dont feel like going into photoshop.
 

Forbidden Technique

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In a battle Gai murks Kakashi. But being "equal to" or "superior to" is more like tier wise imo. In the war arc, both MS Kakashi and 7th gate Gai showed the same level overall, but each one in different circumstances. When Taijutsu was the only answer, Gai shined while Kakashi didn't, but when it came to brains... or using Kamui to almost solo the Gedo Mazo..

Tier wise i think they're in the same level. That's how i see them as equals. In a battle, Gai shits since his speed > Kamui, but put them against different opponents like Itachi, Sasuke, Nagato, and they both oppose a high treath to the enemy, with only small gaps between them.
We're not in any disagreement here. I as well think tier wise, 7G Gai and MS Kakashi are on the same level. This thread was completely derailed by horrendous reasoning that rivalry battles and inaccurate portrayal equates to MS Kakashi defeating 7G Gai in a serious fight to the death. Feats have been conveniently ignored by Kakashi supporters.

Kisame didn't truly react. Reacting means he could do something about it in my books. But he most definitely saw the kick coming, and even turned his head towards it.

And why would his head be in the kicks direction before Gai initiates it lmfao?

Does Kisame have sharingan precognition, where he moves his head towards a nonexistent kick?

He saw the kick coming and even shifted his head towards it. Speeds vary, Gai's kick simply too fast to dodge, but it wasn't fast enough not to see coming, or even for Kisame to shift towards it.

Your original post which I replied to was saying Kisame couldn't even mentally react, which is a far cry from what actually happened.
Doesn't really matter here how you interpret reactions. @ bold, is not true no matter how hard you want to argue otherwise. It's literally drawn right there. Kisames head was already in that position, as Gai initiated his kick. Give it up already. Gai's leg was in movement, Kisame's head and body was not. I can simply speculate that fighting intelligence lead Kisame shifting that way. Kisame knowing Samehada being swung and occupying one side, so he knew Gai was forced to kick from the other side, which he prepared himself for. You however, can not argue against what was literally drawn out. And okay, I already conceded to being wrong based on a bad translation.
 
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ToshiZO

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We're not in any disagreement here. I as well think tier wise, 7G Gai and MS Kakashi are on the same level. This thread was completely derailed by horrendous reasoning that rivalry battles and inaccurate portrayal equates to MS Kakashi defeating 7G Gai in a serious fight to the death. Feats have been conveniently ignored by Kakashi supporters.



Doesn't really matter here how you interpret reactions. @ bold, is not true no matter how hard you want to argue otherwise. It's literally drawn right there. Kisames head was already in that position, as Gai initiated his kick. Give it up already. Gai's leg was in movement, Kisame's head and body was not. I can simply speculate that fighting intelligence lead Kisame shifting that way. Kisame knowing Samehada being swung and occupying one side, so he knew Gai was forced to kick from the other side, which he prepared himself for. You however, can not argue against what was literally drawn out. And okay, I already conceded to being wrong based on a bad translation.
I'm not arguing against what was drawn, I'm arguing for what was drawn, but w/e.
 

EZQ

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Kakashi and Gai obviously never fought to death or even half serious, so suggesting that Kakashi wins against Gai just because of their battle record is pretty stupid, since by feats Gai obviously wins.

It has been suggested that Kakashi probably beat Gai a lot of times using genjutsu in the past, so Gai came up with a new fighting method, so then in their addult selves, the genjutsu argument can't be used anymore, so back on track, by feats Kakashi loses to Gai.
 

Haizaki

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Kakashi is portrayed to be slightly superior based on their friendly rivalry matches. Translating this into a serious fight with actual killing intent and no restrictions is what's laughable. A good example being Rock Lee and Neji's rivalry. Neji and Rock Lee's matches would always end up in Neji winning against base Lee. Manga stated that Rock Lee would of defeated Neji in the preliminary Chuunin exams upon showcasing his gates and Ura Renge.
Agreed and the bold shuts down any further argument. Feats show that Gai with a killing intent would defeat Kakashi once he opens that Gate. People resort to "battles" and all that because they know with feats, there's zero way to beat Gai based on the things shown against high leveled opponents such a JJ Madara and S-Rank Shinobis.
 

Raykyryn

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Then it is what it is. Period. He used surpassed so till you show me the viz, there's no talk here. All I asked for but you won't show me. No one has access to the viz easily so we use what we can get. If you can't show me, then I can't just agree with you like that.
You can ask for that scan but i dont really care since if you accept your scan that means Kakashi hasnt surpassed TenTen and Lee , something that everyone with a capable brain would deny thus its your burden to show the viz scan if you want to utilize something out of it. You want to make a point out of that scan, not me.

You already know that "look cool" claim is terrible? Come on. Sasuke said to himself it was true. Lets not try and argue this at all. I can go ahead and say Kishi kept Gai out of Konoha's battle because you know what would have happened then. Gaara led the entire alliance so your division point is irrelevant unless you're implying Gaara is superior to all there. Kakashi remembered what his father said back then after seeing Night Gai so going by your logic, 8th Gate Gai inferior even with EE(That same Gai who Madara said used him further like Hashirama). Raikiri doesn't even enhance Kakashi compared to the Gates which unleashes extremely powerful techniques and boosts Gai to battle head on again Juubi Madara. We are both concluding such techniques weren't used in their rivalry but if we debate the abilities as shown in the Manga, Gai ends up being superior.

Same league? Agreed. Kakashi being superior? Equals based on the Manga's portrayal or based on their rival contest as shown with Gai himself willing to die for Kakashi and his comrades let alone him using techniques that can kill Kakashi in a rival match(Which is why I say let's debate it) Gai being superior? Clear based on feats which is undeniable.
I will just take Gai's words that by the war Kakashi had the winning record to be true, over yours.
Gaara was a kage so he had the benefit to be the leader of the army. Kakashi and Gai were both jonins thus had equal reputation. And Kakashi would have been choosen as Hokage if Tsunade hadnt recovered.
Before Gai enetered Night Gai Kakashi didnt even had the luxus to spend time remembering what his father said. The point is,only after witnessing 8th gate he said that, not any before.
Raikiri is useful for Kakashi up until Gai opens the 7th gate.
Kakashi's clone is at least as fast as morning peacock ( ) so Kakashi can dodge it. At close range it isnt faster than a Raikiri execution.
Sharingan can see when Gai is opening the gates so Kakashi can prepare for the 7th gate, go underground, produce a raiton clone etc.
Kamui is typically more useful than hirudora like against JJ Madara. Which feats put Gai on a higher level than Kakashi?
 

unknownvillain1254

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You can ask for that scan but i dont really care since if you accept your scan that means Kakashi hasnt surpassed TenTen and Lee , something that everyone with a capable brain would deny thus its your burden to show the viz scan if you want to utilize something out of it. You want to make a point out of that scan, not me.


I will just take Gai's words that by the war Kakashi had the winning record to be true, over yours.
Gaara was a kage so he had the benefit to be the leader of the army. Kakashi and Gai were both jonins thus had equal reputation. And Kakashi would have been choosen as Hokage if Tsunade hadnt recovered.
Before Gai enetered Night Gai Kakashi didnt even had the luxus to spend time remembering what his father said. The point is,only after witnessing 8th gate he said that, not any before.
Raikiri is useful for Kakashi up until Gai opens the 7th gate.
Kakashi's clone is at least as fast as morning peacock ( ) so Kakashi can dodge it. At close range it isnt faster than a Raikiri execution.
Sharingan can see when Gai is opening the gates so Kakashi can prepare for the 7th gate, go underground, produce a raiton clone etc.
Kamui is typically more useful than hirudora like against JJ Madara. Which feats put Gai on a higher level than Kakashi?
At this moment I knew your stupidity cup have run over
So you're saying he's clones are so fast they make friction with air and start fires because of the insane speed take that s*** somewhere else
 

unknownvillain1254

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flames speed is not equal to Gai's arms speed. I posted a scan. Are u blind?
That is literally one of the dumbest statements ever because it is because of his hands moving at such a high speed that the friction from the air and his hands are making flames you are literally the 9 facts in your face you are a troll
 

unknownvillain1254

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i dont think he was talking about guy's fists. Either way its not that fast
So are you said gai is using a fire style jutus and if you are please provide proof of this claim





The technique is started by kicking the enemy into the air, which for most would be an instant kill. The user then jumps into the air in a distinctive stance and begins punching the enemy repeatedly. The punches are so fast, they are set ablaze by sheer speed and friction which in turn creates a peacock-like fan of flames around the opponent.
 
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Raykyryn

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That is literally one of the dumbest statements ever because it is because of his hands moving at such a high speed that the friction from the air and his hands are making flames you are literally the 9 facts in your face you are a troll
The flames didnt outspeed Kakahi and his clone on the scan I posted. Ergo your point is dumb.




Lol still thinking if I should respond to that nonsense or not
You shouldnt if you can't. Don't bring up that fcking scan anymore please.
 

BenjerminGaye

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So are you said gai is using a fire style jutus and if you are please provide proof of this claim





The technique is started by kicking the enemy into the air, which for most would be an instant kill. The user then jumps into the air in a distinctive stance and begins punching the enemy repeatedly. The punches are so fast, they are set ablaze by sheer speed and friction which in turn creates a peacock-like fan of flames around the opponent.
no. Im saying the speed of the flames=/= the speed of the fists. Seriously, you're reaching right now.
 
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