Hiruzen's title God of Shinobi
- Thread starter -Vegeta-
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EliteKakashi
Active member
Given the only God in the series that we know of is Rikudo, it's not exactly outlandish to believe that Hiruzen was being compared to him when he was called God of Shinobi. I dunno why you want to create a topic on something, start to get in to a debate over it, then leave mid-way through because you claim you have no interest in it.
From the databook itself, showing why it's a reasonable belief as far as thinking Hiruzen was compared to Rikudo -
I must say I do hate, when finally a good thread is created(which I believe this to be) and a decent debate/discussion has started about the topic, the other person just quits. There's very few even decent debates on this forum, as every thread is full of "THIS CHARACTER IS THE GREATEST CAUSE HE/SHE CAN 1 SHOT THIS OR THAT", and finally we have this going and now it's just going to stop.
What a shame.
I'm still going to debate in here, just not about Hiruzen's ranking in power because that's not what this thread was meant for, which is what we were discussing. This thread was just to give people an idea of what Hiruzen's god of shinobi title may have meant.
Also I don't know why you gave a link to the databook considering that just states him as the strongest hokage and has nothing to do with the SO6P.
EliteKakashi
Active member
Saying that part 1 is old news is fine when something is said to contradict what was said in part 1. It's fine to debate that Hiruzen was the strongest ever, as I've always been of the belief, at least, since learning Hashirama took on Madara and the Kyuubi at the same time, that he could at the very least tie Hiruzen for strongest ever.
However, nothing has ever been said to make anyone believe that Hiruzen being called God of Shinobi was incorrect in anyway and no one has ever tried to say anything to the contrary. That nickname has been given to no one else other than him and Rikudo. If Kishi ever comes out and says "Hiruzen was nothing compared to Hashirama" or anything similar, then this might be a reasonable explanation, but unless that ever does happen, I don't see that as a viable reason.
EliteKakashi
Active member
Hiruzen's power has a lot to do with why he has the nickname he does, at least, in my opinion. You state as much in your opening post by saying he mastered every form of combat. You can't master every form and not be incredibly powerful.
The biggest thing from that is being called "History's Strongest". And him being listed as the strongest hokage would give him hype that compares to Hashirama, who is compared to the Sage as well. Common sense, really.
MasterofSenjutsu
Active member
To be fair, when Oro did Edo Tensei, the people he summoned weren't as strong as they could have been.
Alright this is my last post on this subject.
Itachi has pretty much mastered all forms of shinobi combat if you want to go by the databook considering he has 5 in everything bar the ones affected by his health. Scratch that he has 4.5 in taijutsu, but a 5 in ninjutsu, genjutsu, taijutsu, and hand seals. While Itachi is indeed very powerful, he's not a God.
Just because you master all forms of shinobi combat doesn't make you monstrously powerful. As I said earlier Hiruzen seemes to sepcialize in elemental jutsu, taijutsu, genjutsu, ninja tools, and summons and that won't cut it against some of the top tier opponents such as Madara, Naruto, Tobi, Nagato, Hashirama, and etc.
I know he's powerful, but he's not some unstoppable shinobi like you seem to think.
Also when it said history's strongest it was in reference to the hokages, not history in general.
TouchMyMangos
Active member
The idea of 'God of shinobi' does indeed refer to his incredible feat of mastering all known jutsu in Konoha. I thought that was obvious. I hardly see how anyone could become confused enough to suggest that puts him on Rikudo Sennin's level.
In contrast, Hiruzen is a very underrated Hokage by many, despite the undeniable fact that he has been stated to be the strongest hokage throughout the manga on many occasions. I believe that it is a title that both he and Hashirama have claims to own. This does indeed point to the fact that, in his prime, he was probably capable of defeating 90% upwards of all known shinobi, barring 6 or 7.
In contrast, Hiruzen is a very underrated Hokage by many, despite the undeniable fact that he has been stated to be the strongest hokage throughout the manga on many occasions. I believe that it is a title that both he and Hashirama have claims to own. This does indeed point to the fact that, in his prime, he was probably capable of defeating 90% upwards of all known shinobi, barring 6 or 7.
Nidaime Pupil
Active member
Hmm pretty sure Hiruzens "God of Shinobi" title might be related to his level of power. lol In fact I'm sure of it. "No, new info overrides the old" - Incorrect sorry this is one timeline.
The Sage was the god of shinobi - not a nickname. Hiruzen was given the title and thus being compared to the Sage like Kakashi said above but obviously is not this super powered monstrosity like you have said. He has immense power I'm just going to have to apologize for the people that say he is superman or something and unbeatable. I'm sure you know a lot of dumb people post dumb thing nowadays.
In my opinion, the First Hokage was the strongest but Hiruzen was not that far off. I mean, the great thing about this story and show as a whole, is that all the Hokage were super bad ass right? None of them were weak (Tsunade excluded) why can't we just appreciate four bad asses?
The Sage was the god of shinobi - not a nickname. Hiruzen was given the title and thus being compared to the Sage like Kakashi said above but obviously is not this super powered monstrosity like you have said. He has immense power I'm just going to have to apologize for the people that say he is superman or something and unbeatable. I'm sure you know a lot of dumb people post dumb thing nowadays.
In my opinion, the First Hokage was the strongest but Hiruzen was not that far off. I mean, the great thing about this story and show as a whole, is that all the Hokage were super bad ass right? None of them were weak (Tsunade excluded) why can't we just appreciate four bad asses?
MasterofSenjutsu
Active member
I don't think Tsunade is weak. I mean, she has some hard competition going against her when ranking Hokages. The weakest Hokage, sure. But she isn't weak.
Nidaime Pupil
Active member
Yeah sorry I also agree. I think she is bad ass. But a lot of tards flame her - dunno why, she's hardcore.
Blaze Release
Active member
Whilst i agree that for all his hype his barely has any feats and this is kishi's fault.
I am however going to say in his prime he should be able to fight on par with nagato and current naruto. Who would win is another question.
The thing is prime hiruzen couldve been the only person in the databook to get a maximum for everything, that is a fact. In his old age, stamina, speed and strength is what let him down and even that he gained 3/5 for these things. Kakashi has a 3/5 for stamina and a 3.5/5 for strength yet old hiruzen rivals him in this section of the databook.
Anbu commented that in his old age his chakra has greatly diminished which leads me to believe that in his prime he would get 5/5 for stamina;
He also considered a transformed enma to be heavy. This clearly hints that in his prime he could wield a transformed enma as if it was nothing. Clearly hinting that his strength in prime could be 5/5;
Even in his old age he was still a shunshin user. In his prime ive no doubt he could get a 5/5 for speed;
I am however going to say in his prime he should be able to fight on par with nagato and current naruto. Who would win is another question.
The thing is prime hiruzen couldve been the only person in the databook to get a maximum for everything, that is a fact. In his old age, stamina, speed and strength is what let him down and even that he gained 3/5 for these things. Kakashi has a 3/5 for stamina and a 3.5/5 for strength yet old hiruzen rivals him in this section of the databook.
Anbu commented that in his old age his chakra has greatly diminished which leads me to believe that in his prime he would get 5/5 for stamina;
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He also considered a transformed enma to be heavy. This clearly hints that in his prime he could wield a transformed enma as if it was nothing. Clearly hinting that his strength in prime could be 5/5;
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Even in his old age he was still a shunshin user. In his prime ive no doubt he could get a 5/5 for speed;
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EliteKakashi
Active member
The difference between Hiruzen and Itachi, though, is that Hiruzen had(supposedly) the strength, the stamina and the speed mastered just as well as he did everything else. He is probably what would be considered the most well rounded ninja ever, being strong enough, fast enough, smart enough, being able to last as long as anyone and having the mastery of each form of combat to go up against anyone.
I love how you say he specializes in elemental ninjutsu, taijutsu, genjutsu and has an extremely powerful summon like it isn't good enough. And, no, he's not on a higher level than everyone in this series. I'm only saying that he could fight, and compete with, most ninja(edo madara and Naruto/Sasuke excluded). He's no easy victory for anybody. He was considered the greatest among 2 generations for a reason(among the kages). At the age of 69 Kabuto stated him to be the strongest among the kages, and he was considered the greatest among the kages in his younger years, as well.
GofOfNothing
Active member
but what if it means that?
did we saw him fighting ?
no one besides kishi knows how strong he was in his prime
maybe it was meant literally but maybe it was not
who knows?
i respect your opinion but because YOU think its not meant literally you cant say he was not an monstrously powerful shinobi
You're free to believe what you want because as I said I'm done debating this subject. This thread wasn't meant to discuss Hiruzen's ranking in power.
When I said that I meant in relation to people like the SO6P and edo Madara.
Everything you mentioned is true, but none of it proves how he could fight on par with Nagato or Naruto. He's shown nothing capable of blocking a bijuu bomb the size that Naruto can produce, destroy chibaku tensei, or anything like that.
Look people I'm not saying he's not powerful, only that he's not this WTF insanely OP shinobi like some of you make him out to be.
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EliteKakashi
Active member
Then you're misleading in your thread. Power has a lot to do with his nickname. Being called a God of Shinobi obviously has something to do with power. You're stating your opinion on what his nickname means, and I'm stating mine. I'm completely on topic with everything I've been saying.
I'm not misleading anything. You started the debate about his ranking in power saying he could defeat this shinobi and that shinobi. That had nothing to do with the topic at hand. The topic was to give my opinion of what the name God of Shinobi meant and see what other people thought. It had nothing to do with his ranking in power.
Blaze Release
Active member
The thing is we dont know whether he could win a fight against nagato or current naruto thats for sure. What we do know is that he would challenge them, that is certain. Also we dont know whether he has techniques to block tbb or ct. What we do know is that he was called professor for supposedly mastering quiet alot of konoha's ninjutsu's.