Hiruzen's title God of Shinobi

[EliteKakashi]

Mastering something like ninjutsu doesn't equate to having every ninjutsu in history. It simply means that he was extremely skilled in that category. Take Itachi for example, he's a master of genjutsu but only possesses several genjutsu techniques. It's his skill with it.

I never tried to slight his nickname, only to state that it doesn't mean he was some monstrously powerful shinobi capable of defeating anybody. If people truly believe that then it's just pure idiocy that even I can't help out with.

No, it does not equate to him having every ninjutsu. But the fact that he masted nin, tai and gen is a feat matched by no one. On top of that having an incredibly powerful summon capable of destroying Hashirama's wood release with ease.

I don't think he'd win 10 out of 10 times vs every character. But he'd give every single character in this series(edo-madara not included) a run for the money and make them use everything they've got to beat him. He's one of the few shinobi capable of such.

 

[-Vegeta-]

No, it does not equate to him having every ninjutsu. But the fact that he masted nin, tai and gen is a feat matched by no one. On top of that having an incredibly powerful summon capable of destroying Hashirama's wood release with ease.

I don't think he'd win 10 out of 10 times vs every character. But he'd give every single character in this series(edo-madara not included) a run for the money and make them use everything they've got to beat him. He's one of the few shinobi capable of such.

I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion. I don't believe he has any chance against Nagato, rinnegan Madara, Tobi, current Naruto, or Hashirama.

Still just my opinion.

 

[UchihaMangekyou]

Yes absolutely!!!

 

[EliteKakashi]

I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion. I don't believe he has any chance against Nagato, rinnegan Madara, Tobi, current Naruto, or Hashirama.

Still just my opinion.

The problem with trying to debate for Hiruzen against those characters is we've only seen him in his old age and he didn't show a ton of jutsu at that. If we were to see him go all out in his prime, I'm sure we'd see techniques that would give him better "debate" material.

I have to go mostly off of hype and the way he was talked about/approached in battle by Orochimaru. I still don't think people pay enough attention to Orochimaru feeling the need to summon 3 separate Hokages to face him. That's hype not matched by anyone. A legendary sannin needing 3 other(well, wanted to use 3 other) extremely elite ninja to fight an old man? It's unheard of. And despite taking out Hasihrama and Tobirama, and sealing Oro's arms, he was still called pathetic by Enma.

 

[-Vegeta-]

The problem with trying to debate for Hiruzen against those characters is we've only seen him in his old age and he didn't show a ton of jutsu at that. If we were to see him go all out in his prime, I'm sure we'd see techniques that would give him better "debate" material.

I have to go mostly off of hype and the way he was talked about/approached in battle by Orochimaru. I still don't think people pay enough attention to Orochimaru feeling the need to summon 3 separate Hokages to face him. That's hype not matched by anyone. A legendary sannin needing 3 other(well, wanted to use 3 other) extremely elite ninja to fight an old man? It's unheard of. And despite taking out Hasihrama and Tobirama, and sealing Oro's arms, he was still called pathetic by Enma.

Orochimaru summoned them because he wanted to toy with Hiruzen hence him saying do you intend to let the former hokages toy with you.

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Hashirama's power just got compared to the so6p and that beats any kind of hype Hiruzen's ever gotten. I also think him taking out 2 other nerfed hokages is overrated. The 2 hokages didn't even use their trademark jutsu(Tobirama's s/t jutsu and Hashirama's wood style flower world jutsu). That was way back in part 1 before power scaling even happened. He was only able to seal them due to the reaper death seal anyway, which happens to be Minato's jutsu.

Plenty of shinobi from part 2 could pull off everything Hiruzen did in that fight excluding sealing them. Compared to whats been happening in part 2 it isn't that impressive. Certainly not more impressive than Naruto taking down 6 bijuu at once or Madara toying with the 5 kages.

Hiruzen just seems like a shinobi who specialized in elemental jutsu, great taijutsu, genjutsu, and summons. I just find it kind of ridiculous that people think he can actually compete with people like Nagato, Madara, Hashirama, Naruto, and Tobi. What I mentioned above won't it cut it against those shinobi.

 

[Athug]

I think we'd have to see but I'd argue in his prime he could fight people like Nagato, Naruto, Itachi, or any other of the elite Shinobi. Remember how he fought against Hashirama, Tobirama, and Orochimaru, at the same time when he's old, while they are "programmed" so to speak to kill him. The Anbu thats watching says that hes no where near what he was in his prime sugesting he could have fought off all three much quicker and without dying in his prime.

 

[lswhyte123]

I know nothing of his actual abilities an assume no one else does...so kind of a mout point.
He was given a great name and was known as a great or one of the greatest. With no other evidence other than what the characters say about him,we have to take Kishi's word.

You're not Kishi,4th. Don't act like it.

 

[-Vegeta-]

I know nothing of his actual abilities an assume no one else does...so kind of a mout point.
He was given a great name and was known as a great or one of the greatest. With no other evidence other than what the characters say about him,we have to take Kishi's word.

You're not Kishi,4th. Don't act like it.

Never said I was. I'm just stating my opinion, so if you don't like it then simply leave.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Orochimaru summoned them because he wanted to toy with Hiruzen hence him saying do you intend to let the former hokages toy with you.

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Hashirama's power just got compared to the so6p and that beats any kind of hype Hiruzen's ever gotten. I also think him taking out 2 other nerfed hokages is overrated. The 2 hokages didn't even use their trademark jutsu(Tobirama's s/t jutsu and Hashirama's wood style flower world jutsu). That was way back in part 1 before power scaling even happened. He was only able to seal them due to the reaper death seal anyway, which happens to be Minato's jutsu.

Plenty of shinobi from part 2 could pull off everything Hiruzen did in that fight excluding sealing them. Compared to whats been happening in part 2 it isn't that impressive. Certainly not more impressive than Naruto taking down 6 bijuu at once or Madara toying with the 5 kages.

If you seriously believe the only reason Oro summoned the Kages was to toy with Hiruzen you're kidding yourself(Now I'm all for believing he wanted them to take an emotional toll on Hiruzen, but that was FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from the only reason). Hiruzen showed why that's a crock of shit when he nearly killed all 3, and still managed to take away what Oro prized most. Oro summoned them because he would have gotten roflstomped by Hiruzen if he took him on by himself.

Enma himself said all nonchalant-like that Hiruzen should have just gotten rid of Oro 10 years prior to the fight, Hiruzen just loved him too much to do it. And no, Hashirama and Tobirama didn't use their "ace in the hole" jutsu, it still didn't change the fact that they, and Minato was supposed to be as well, summoned to fight just 1 man.

And yes, current Naruto could take out Hiruzen, Sasuke, when he shows his true power, will be added to that list as well. But those are the 2 main characters of the show, so I figured they didn't even need to be mentioned, but oh well.

And Hiruzen was given the same nickname as Rikudo himself, and you're going to say that hype doesn't match Hashiramas? Yeah...might wanna consider that again.

 

[StrifeMaccy]

Id put Prime Hiruzen over Naruto still...
I might be the only one who doesnt think Naruto is on Madara and the S06P level. Id even say Prime Hiruzen could probably, after a long exhausting, and near fatal fight, defeat Naruto... until Naruto has full control over the 9 tails powers he's recently developed.

 

[-Vegeta-]

If you seriously believe the only reason Oro summoned the Kages was to toy with Hiruzen you're kidding yourself(Now I'm all for believing he wanted them to take an emotional toll on Hiruzen, but that was FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from the only reason). Hiruzen showed why that's a crock of shit when he nearly killed all 3, and still managed to take away what Oro prized most. Oro summoned them because he would have gotten roflstomped by Hiruzen if he took him on by himself.

Enma himself said all nonchalant-like that Hiruzen should have just gotten rid of Oro 10 years prior to the fight, Hiruzen just loved him too much to do it. And no, Hashirama and Tobirama didn't use their "ace in the hole" jutsu, it still didn't change the fact that they, and Minato was supposed to be as well, summoned to fight just 1 man.

And yes, current Naruto could take out Hiruzen, Sasuke, when he shows his true power, will be added to that list as well. But those are the 2 main characters of the show, so I figured they didn't even need to be mentioned, but oh well.

And Hiruzen was given the same nickname as Rikudo himself, and you're going to say that hype doesn't match Hashiramas? Yeah...might wanna consider that again.

And that's the exact reason for this thread. Just because he shares the same nickname doesn't mean his power is comparable. Hashirama's power was directly compared to the SO6Ps, Hiruzen's wasn't.

You're free to believe what you want though.

 

[EliteKakashi]

And that's the exact reason for this thread. Just because he shares the same nickname doesn't mean his power is comparable. Hashirama's power was directly compared to the SO6Ps, Hiruzen's wasn't.

You're free to believe what you want though.

Being called a God is being compared to another God/other Gods. There's no mistaking that. Now if you want to believe Hashirama was more powerful, that's fine. But trying to state Hiruzen wasn't compared in a similar manner would be false.

 

[Sir Blades]

man whoever thinks hiruzen is the strongest shinobi is obviously a retard, anyone who reads the manga and watches the anime can see hiruzen is the weakest kage and weakest hokage

he is not the weakest hokage your out of your mind. dont downgrade him like that, you have to admit that he is a formidable shinobiand in his prime he would be totally bad @ss.xd

 

[Sir Blades]

And that's the exact reason for this thread. Just because he shares the same nickname doesn't mean his power is comparable. Hashirama's power was directly compared to the SO6Ps, Hiruzen's wasn't.

You're free to believe what you want though.

Hiruzen is still a powerful shinobi, he isnt named that just cuz he look good lol. if orochimaru named him that there must be a good reason, and until his prime is not shown most of your acusations are invalid.

 

[-Vegeta-]

Being called a God is being compared to another God/other Gods. There's no mistaking that. Now if you want to believe Hashirama was more powerful, that's fine. But trying to state Hiruzen wasn't compared in a similar manner would be false.

The SO6P was nicknamed the God of Shinobi because he gave birth to all ninjutsu, not because of his power. That's what we're at least led to believe.

Also Hiruzen's power was never compared to the SO6P while Hashirama's was. Hiruzen was never compared to the SO6P at all actually. Trying to say the hype between the two is the same is foolish.

Sharing the same nickname doesn't equate to being equal or close to it at all

 

[EliteKakashi]

The SO6P was nicknamed the God of Shinobi because he gave birth to all ninjutsu, not because of his power. That's what we're at least led to believe.

Also Hiruzen's power was never compared to the SO6P while Hashirama's was. Hiruzen was never compared to the SO6P at all actually. Trying to say the hype between the two is the same is foolish.

Sharing the same nickname doesn't equate to being equal or close to it at all

Being called a God, whether you want to believe it was being compared to Rikudo(which I do believe, though it may have never been stated), or just simply considered a God because of how powerful he was, is insane hype all the same, and yes, on the same level of hype that Hashirama received, regardless of if you think it was being compared to the same person.

 

[StrifeMaccy]

The SO6P was nicknamed the God of Shinobi because he gave birth to all ninjutsu, not because of his power. That's what we're at least led to believe.

Also Hiruzen's power was never compared to the SO6P while Hashirama's was. Hiruzen was never compared to the SO6P at all actually. Trying to say the hype between the two is the same is foolish.

Sharing the same nickname doesn't equate to being equal or close to it at all

Well then its a good job alot of the Naruto characters think even in his old ages he extremely powerful I'd say being considered the strongest kage of his time isn't a bad one, considering he was an old geezer. But you sound like you wouldn't be convinced if Kishi wrote a Naruto data book and said in it "THIS IS CANON, Hirzuens power is comparable to the 1st Hokages!!!!"

 

[-Vegeta-]

Being called a God, whether you want to believe it was being compared to Rikudo(which I do believe, though it may have never been stated), or just simply considered a God because of how powerful he was, is insane hype all the same, and yes, on the same level of hype that Hashirama received, regardless of if you think it was being compared to the same person.

I disagree, but you can believe what you want because frankly I'm tired of arguing about this. I've completely lost interest in it anyway.

As I said saying the hype between the two is the same is foolish. Hiruzen was never I repeat NEVER compared to the SO6P. Hashirama was and as I already stated the SO6P received that nickname because he was the creator of all ninjutsu, not because of his power.

I've explained why I think he recieved the nickname and my opinion on that doesn't change. You however can believe what you want.

Anyway I'm done because I have no interest in this debate anymore.

 

[Tartarus]

Frankly I think Hiruzen is severely overrated. His hype was from back in part 1 where the power scale was much lower. Back then, Itachi and Jiraiya were the strongest characters and we didn't even see them at full power. I think people say he was stated as the strongest hokage in one of the old databooks, but things normally get retconed. In my databook it says Madara is still alive, so does that mean it's true? No, new info overrides the old. He's still probably the strongest kage of his era, but his power is not even relevant anymore, no one compares Hiruzen to people like Hashirama or Madara, and Kishi does like to have characters compare powers to others.

 

[-Vegeta-]

Frankly I think Hiruzen is severely overrated. His hype was from back in part 1 where the power scale was much lower. Back then, Itachi and Jiraiya were the strongest characters and we didn't even see them at full power. I think people say he was stated as the strongest hokage in one of the old databooks, but things normally get retconed. In my databook it says Madara is still alive, so does that mean it's true? No, new info overrides the old. He's still probably the strongest kage of his era, but his power is not even relevant anymore, no one compares Hiruzen to people like Hashirama or Madara, and Kishi does like to have characters compare powers to others.

Thank you. Finally someone who actually gets it.