Flaw logic of NB members Kuchiyose no Jutsu and Edo Tensei

[Booker]

You can see her...

I need the page BEFORE this so I know what's going on.

 

[KingHashirama]

*sigh*

Sasori has complete control over his summons, some even represent deceased ninja but they appear in the form of puppets, which renders your argument. It is indeed a revival of the dead but whats your point? Aren't the Six Paths of pein each a summon and a completely controlled deceased individuals at that? When referring to battle, edo's are summoned via kuchiyose no jutsu which makes them as any other summon, the ability to do the technique already merges it to your power via, definition of the word.

Comparing non living things to living things now? This is what most people on this thread are doing.

In the form of puppets... a simple tool.. moved by the puppeteer....every step.. every movement of a puppet is controlled by the puppeteer.

6POP work on Nagato's own chakra...... Edo tensei summons do no such thing.. so what is your point?

The ability to do the technique of EDO TENSEI aka bring back the dead .. makes Bringing back the dead your power.. it does not make the shinobi you brought back from the dead your own power. That is the point made in the thread.

Edo tensei simply a Resurrection jutsu.

1:imo edo tensi is not a unique skill, edo tensi is a technique, for clarity lets just call it a spell, anyone that knows the spell can use it
you can enhance the spell with other techniques, but basically anyone can do it if they knew the spell.

2: if you summon the dead back without their free will and control them, they are not pawns they are puppets and there is a big difference, however if you think about it sometimes pawn and puppet can mean the same thing but i think edo tensi by it's very nature makes the sommoned person a robot-like puppet to be used as a pawn.

2. They are summoned with Free will.. but they have the will taken away. Kabuto called them pawns. Pawns and puppets are never the samething.

Man my funny threads have more brain depth than the OP's wakokoks xd

Go back to your hentai or porno

 

[The Necromancer]

I need the page BEFORE this so I know what's going on.

-Sigh- Oh my god.

You must be registered for see links

Here's an entire chapter for you.

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

I said he can :sy:

what the hell are you talking about? Kabuto manipulated their minds......still doesn't make 3rd Raikage's power Kabuto's own.

i'm pretty sure i did respond.

1. All summonings are "Jutsus"..... no clue where you got they aren't.

2. Changing the facts requires insults.

3. The Edos move on their own, Kabuto gives them the order of "attack" or "no". Puppets require strings and require hands to move them. Don't even try to compare them, because you will fail

4. Your logic failed when you declared SOULS to be simple tools like Kunais

5. Edo tensei is a jutsu that summons the dead. Edo tensei the JUTSU ITSELF is part of the users power. But the ones summoned by Edo tensei are not.

6. If you had read that scan i posted about Kabuto, he stated "Pawns" plural form for Pawns. there for the "one" is changed to many. ;]

7. Pawns refer to living things. Unless you are talking about chess pieces. Your choice, if you wanna manipulate words like 'Derp Obito' and that one other guy.

1. I never said they weren't; however, you implicated that a summoning was in some manner less than a Jutsu....as such I confirmed that it just as much as a regular Jutsu as a Karin styled fireball.

2. Changing facts does not require insults. You simply need to constructively assert you argument

3. Kabutos commands are no different from a puppets. Kabuto has to utter the command attack....as such his is simply far more efficient because his strings are not physical, and his Edo Bodies are capable of performing on their own....once again simply more efficient than that of a puppet. It is completely logical. If you believe it isn't give me solid logical reasoning as to how it is not.

4. Explain HOW my logic failed. In the context of Edo Tensei, Kabuto sacrifices a soul to bring a deceased soul to possess a body. This soul effectively runs as an advanced processing unit/ Artificial Intelligence for the corpse....as such it has been forcefully reduced to that of a tool by Kabuto.

5. Once again...it is a paradox. The Body's power is the Caster's power because the Caster commands the Body to perform actions....running off of the souls memory, these powers are initiated in the most efficient or useful manner to the Caster. As such, the powers become the casters power because he orders an individual to do something and they can do it.

6. Then I shall simply say he has many tools or many "ones"....this point does nothing to diminish what I have said. How?! Because you have only gone from a singular case to a plural case....so instead I'd referring to an individual Edo Tensei, I refer to them as a plural collective.

7. It most certainly is my choice. However, I shall ask you a question. How do you know for sure Kabuto means the second deffinition?! Kabuto has reffered to them in a derogitory manner that connotes that they are less than human. He also is seen holding small talismen pieces similar to that of Chinese Checkers. He even moves them on a board that is a map cut into geographical coordinates that symbolicly represents a chess board. To furhter supplement this, Kakuzu and Shikamaru even refer to the various Edo Remarks as chess pieces. Shikamaru declaring Kinkaku and Ginkaku as "Gold and Silver Pieces". Kakuzu replies that he has their pieces (Dan and Asuma). He then proceeds to say if he is a Bishop than he shall act as one. What gives you the right to interpret and classify what Kabuto says?! You cannot for 2 reasons.

1. Kauto isn't a living person
2. Even if he was you cannot decide what others say....only the individual can.

Once again I will say....Silence is Golden. There is no need to insult those of differing opinions. Only constructive reinforcement of your own beliefs.

 

[Waltz]

Comparing non living things to living things now? This is what most people on this thread are doing.

In the form of puppets... a simple tool.. moved by the puppeteer....every step.. every movement of a puppet is controlled by the puppeteer.

6POP work on Nagato's own chakra...... Edo tensei summons do no such thing.. so what is your point?

The ability to do the technique of EDO TENSEI aka bring back the dead .. makes Bringing back the dead your power.. it does not make the shinobi you brought back from the dead your own power. That is the point made in the thread.

Edo tensei simply a Resurrection jutsu.



2. They are summoned with Free will.. but they have the will taken away. Kabuto called them pawns. Pawns and puppets are never the samething.

Edo Tensei summons aren't living things and whether living or non living, they are summons according to the manga and a part of the users power by the definition of the word (which you should research).

 

[The Necromancer]

Comparing non living things to living things now? This is what most people on this thread are doing.

In the form of puppets... a simple tool.. moved by the puppeteer....every step.. every movement of a puppet is controlled by the puppeteer.

6POP work on Nagato's own chakra...... Edo tensei summons do no such thing.. so what is your point?

The ability to do the technique of EDO TENSEI aka bring back the dead .. makes Bringing back the dead your power.. it does not make the shinobi you brought back from the dead your own power. That is the point made in the thread.

Edo tensei simply a Resurrection jutsu.

This. To whoever was talking about calculators... or whatever that was... if i invent a killer robot that can beat anyone in the world in a fight, it does not make me the strongest person in the world.

 

[Booker]

-Sigh- Oh my god.

You must be registered for see links

Here's an entire chapter for you.

So Pein can summon Konan? Alright. Cool. Your point?

 

[Booker]

This. To whoever was talking about calculators... or whatever that was... if i invent a killer robot that can beat anyone in the world in a fight, it does not make me the strongest person in the world.

Yes it would, since nobody could beat you. Hence, "strongest".

 

[The Necromancer]

1. I never said they weren't; however, you implicated that a summoning was in some manner less than a Jutsu....as such I confirmed that it just as much as a regular Jutsu as a Karin styled fireball.

2. Changing facts does not require insults. You simply need to constructively assert you argument

3. Kabutos commands are no different from a puppets. Kabuto has to utter the command attack....as such his is simply far more efficient because his strings are not physical, and his Edo Bodies are capable of performing on their own....once again simply more efficient than that of a puppet. It is completely logical. If you believe it isn't give me solid logical reasoning as to how it is not.

4. Explain HOW my logic failed. In the context of Edo Tensei, Kabuto sacrifices a soul to bring a deceased soul to possess a body. This soul effectively runs as an advanced processing unit/ Artificial Intelligence for the corpse....as such it has been forcefully reduced to that of a tool by Kabuto.

5. Once again...it is a paradox. The Body's power is the Caster's power because the Caster commands the Body to perform actions....running off of the souls memory, these powers are initiated in the most efficient or useful manner to the Caster. As such, the powers become the casters power because he orders an individual to do something and they can do it.

6. Then I shall simply say he has many tools or many "ones"....this point does nothing to diminish what I have said. How?! Because you have only gone from a singular case to a plural case....so instead I'd referring to an individual Edo Tensei, I refer to them as a plural collective.

7. It most certainly is my choice. However, I shall ask you a question. How do you know for sure Kabuto means the second deffinition?! Kabuto has reffered to them in a derogitory manner that connotes that they are less than human. He also is seen holding small talismen pieces similar to that of Chinese Checkers. He even moves them on a board that is a map cut into geographical coordinates that symbolicly represents a chess board. To furhter supplement this, Kakuzu and Shikamaru even refer to the various Edo Remarks as chess pieces. Shikamaru declaring Kinkaku and Ginkaku as "Gold and Silver Pieces". Kakuzu replies that he has their pieces (Dan and Asuma). He then proceeds to say if he is a Bishop than he shall act as one. What gives you the right to interpret and classify what Kabuto says?! You cannot for 2 reasons.

1. Kauto isn't a living person
2. Even if he was you cannot decide what others say....only the individual can.

Once again I will say....Silence is Golden. There is no need to insult those of differing opinions. Only constructive reinforcement of your own beliefs.

While i understand your arguments, what you are describing is a teammate. Giving the command "attack" and having your "tool" carry out that order does not constitute a puppet-puppet master relationship. You say that they are simply eliminating the middle man in this puppet relationship, but i don't see any difference between edo tensei and fighting as a team.

In essence; Kakashi giving orders to his team 7 is exactly the same as kakashi summoning them via edo tensei. Without COMPLETE and DIRECT control over the actions of his puppets, i cannot consider edo tensei summons as a part of the user's power.

 

[The Necromancer]

So Pein can summon Konan? Alright. Cool. Your point?

If pain were to summon konan, tell her to kill sasuke, and walk away. Is pain the victor of the fight? According to your previous answer, he is.

 

[Booker]

If pain were to summon konan, tell her to kill sasuke, and walk away. Is pain the victor of the fight? According to your previous answer, he is.

Obviously he would be, if he can summon Konan and Sasuke is dead. That means Pein won. Sasuke. Dead.

 

[The Necromancer]

Obviously he would be, if he can summon Konan and Sasuke is dead. That means Pein won. Sasuke. Dead.

You honestly believe that? How is that different from Pain opening a door with konan behind it? Konan did the fighting, and Pain did nothing besides get her there.

 

[KingHashirama]

1. I never said they weren't; however, you implicated that a summoning was in some manner less than a Jutsu....as such I confirmed that it just as much as a regular Jutsu as a Karin styled fireball.

2. Changing facts does not require insults. You simply need to constructively assert you argument

3. Kabutos commands are no different from a puppets. Kabuto has to utter the command attack....as such his is simply far more efficient because his strings are not physical, and his Edo Bodies are capable of performing on their own....once again simply more efficient than that of a puppet. It is completely logical. If you believe it isn't give me solid logical reasoning as to how it is not.

4. Explain HOW my logic failed. In the context of Edo Tensei, Kabuto sacrifices a soul to bring a deceased soul to possess a body. This soul effectively runs as an advanced processing unit/ Artificial Intelligence for the corpse....as such it has been forcefully reduced to that of a tool by Kabuto.

5. Once again...it is a paradox. The Body's power is the Caster's power because the Caster commands the Body to perform actions....running off of the souls memory, these powers are initiated in the most efficient or useful manner to the Caster. As such, the powers become the casters power because he orders an individual to do something and they can do it.

6. Then I shall simply say he has many tools or many "ones"....this point does nothing to diminish what I have said. How?! Because you have only gone from a singular case to a plural case....so instead I'd referring to an individual Edo Tensei, I refer to them as a plural collective.

7. It most certainly is my choice. However, I shall ask you a question. How do you know for sure Kabuto means the second deffinition?! Kabuto has reffered to them in a derogitory manner that connotes that they are less than human. He also is seen holding small talismen pieces similar to that of Chinese Checkers. He even moves them on a board that is a map cut into geographical coordinates that symbolicly represents a chess board. To furhter supplement this, Kakuzu and Shikamaru even refer to the various Edo Remarks as chess pieces. Shikamaru declaring Kinkaku and Ginkaku as "Gold and Silver Pieces". Kakuzu replies that he has their pieces (Dan and Asuma). He then proceeds to say if he is a Bishop than he shall act as one. What gives you the right to interpret and classify what Kabuto says?! You cannot for 2 reasons.

1. Kauto isn't a living person
2. Even if he was you cannot decide what others say....only the individual can.

Once again I will say....Silence is Golden. There is no need to insult those of differing opinions. Only constructive reinforcement of your own beliefs.

1. I specifically put "jutsu".... so how can i imply such a thing?

2. I can go morals on you.. but that will get us no where so , i'm dropping this. Since your cool and all.

3. Go rewatch the puppets in Naruto..... Puppets in NARUTO require strings just like real life puppets. No clue why your comparing them. Trying to making something into which it is not is twisting the manga. I already gave a solid reasoning which you claimed to be not solid. Yet you believe your reasoning is solid.

4. When the soul comes out in the body it is free. But later on is binded by Kabuto/Oro. A soul is not a tool.. atleast not in the human dictionary.

5. It is a paradox , because you made it into a paradox. The manga has never once declared the 3rd Raikage's powers to be part of Kabuto's power.. or any other edo's powers. Not even once. Kabuto acts as the leaders to a number of shinobis... simple as that. He tells them to attack.. they attack. Hashirama was the leader of the Senju.. he tells them to attack they attack.. Same for Madara. If your making multiple shinobis part of 1 person's power.. then i fail to see your logic.

6. Manga says "pawns". Do not add words by yourself sir. The point you made was that it only refers to "one".. and then you made unlogical examples of fire jutsu and etc.. yet the "ones" refers to a living being.

7. Because the first definition refers to Chess. . If you say it refers to the first.. Then you should know chess is played by using other people (bishop, horse, king , queen, pawns and etc) , not yourself. Mano e Mano is a one vs one fight where it is your body vs other person's body. How is Edo tensei keeping the fight one vs one.

Silence is Gold, when there is no need to speak up. Otherwise Words are Diamonds and pearls.

 

[Booker]

You honestly believe that? How is that different from Pain opening a door with konan behind it? Konan did the fighting, and Pain did nothing besides get her there.

I honestly don't believe Pein has a summoning contract with Konan, that was just PIS. But even if he DID, yes Pein would be the victor even if Konan did the work.

Example.

You have power for this computer, right? You arn't making it.

But you reap the benefeits of it regardless, and "win" in the end. Same thing here.

Pein merely summons Konan, she kills Sasuke, but Pein still wins because Sasuke is dead.

 

[KingHashirama]

Edo Tensei summons aren't living things and whether living or non living, they are summons according to the manga and a part of the users power by the definition of the word (which you should research).

Sir they are living things..... They have souls come back. I did research , but apparently your confusing the technique with the shinobis revived by the technique.

 

[The Necromancer]

I honestly don't believe Pein has a summoning contract with Konan, that was just PIS. But even if he DID, yes Pein would be the victor even if Konan did the work.

Example.

You have power for this computer, right? You arn't making it.

But you reap the benefeits of it regardless, and "win" in the end. Same thing here.

Pein merely summons Konan, she kills Sasuke, but Pein still wins because Sasuke is dead.

So i guess Kabuto indirectly control the juubi right now then. If i understand what you think, then Kabuto summoned Madara, and even though madara has complete and utter free will and control of himself (as konan did in my hypothetical) his presence alone is by kabuto's will, and therefor any action madara completes is a direct feat of kabuto, and THEREFOR, kabuto controls the juubi.

Now that doesn't make sense.

 

[Booker]

So what makes Triple Rashomon a part of the user's power out of curiousity? It's not like they made it, consist of it, or have any part of it within them?

 

[KingHashirama]

Ah, I have to go atm. Past midnight. I will reply to further posts when i'm back on in the morning. Thank your for the arguments.

 

[Booker]

So i guess Kabuto indirectly control the juubi right now then. If i understand what you think, then Kabuto summoned Madara, and even though madara has complete and utter free will and control of himself (as konan did in my hypothetical) his presence alone is by kabuto's will, and therefor any action madara completes is a direct feat of kabuto, and THEREFOR, kabuto controls the juubi.

Now that doesn't make sense.

Haha you're pretty dense.

Konan does what Pein says. Not free will.

Madara does not do what Kabuto says. Free will.

^ Logic, friend. ^

 

[The Necromancer]

Haha you're pretty dense.

Konan does what Pein says. Not free will.

Madara does not do what Kabuto says. Free will.

^ Logic, friend. ^

How does konan not have free will. She made the choice to follow. That is free will.