I've been reading these debates and to me it kind of seems like dreagod is just wasting most of his time insulting bac2 instead of actually posting arguments for orochimaru
So far I think the stupidest argument was where draegod said one of the things bac2 said wasn't possible or not supported by the manga but yet hydra using techniques is ������
Then where draegod said Kisame couldn't catch killer bee in the WD where 8 tails clearly in black and white informs him that Kisame is faster in water and can breath
Someone should have did some more digging before he said a few things that made himself look dumb
I been lost interest in debating you weeks ago especially since you take for ever just to post pictures and get help. But I'll keep this one straight to the point and try and post simple on the tablet (so less links if any) since I'm bored of this "debate" at this point. Counter below:
Never got help from anyone. Don't accuse me of something I didn't do because that just makes you look like an assclown who can't accept that I countered you well in my last post but you don't want to give me credit.
Except I didn't say anything about snakes being unable to swim in my intro which is what you were quoting when you used that video as evidence. Except that whether snakes can swim or not wasn't a central part of my argument, and a point I already conceded. So you don't need to blow that out of proportion.
FYI: We can see that you edited your post almost 3 hours after for the first one and 1 hour after the second. I dont care to check what was changed since I countered and quoted before you could change anything, but next time dont touch what was changed or state what was change (the option). 10-20 afterwards is cool, but hours? You look suspect kid.
I didn't think even you would try to defend a notion this dumb. The lake used by a clone with 1/3rd of Kisame's power isn't a 100% Kisame's limit.
The fact that it was a copy with only 30% of Kisame's chakra eliminates the possibility of it being Kisame's limit due to chakra limitations. If you're implying that the jutsu itself has that limit, think again. The fact that water dome is a different jutsu doesn't change the fact that it's a much bigger volume of water than
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. More water = more chakra. Water dome takes way more chakra and more masterful chakra control than the water shockwave used against Gai since it involves more chakra and involves the dome literally moving with Kisame. Maintaining a massive water dome which moves with him continually drains Kisame of chakra much more quickly than having a big vat of water sit on the battlefield. It makes no sense that Kisame can make a giant volume of water move around with him but he can't make a big bathtub of water of the same volume to just sit there. I don't see your point with the word "Dai". 30% Kisame didnt use that word to describe his jutsu [
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]. That destroys your argument about the word "Dai" implying that Kisame can't make a bigger one when he didn't even say that. "Dai" doesn't even indicate a different jutsu. Oodama Rasengan and Rasengan are by their nature the same technique, one is just bigger. Same holds true here. Who's to say there's no such thing as a "Suiton - Daibakushouha"?
Then there's the fact that the Kisame which spat out a lake wasn't even at 50%. Meaning a 100% Kisame could just use the same jutsu twice and make a lake that's twice as big. So I didn't even need to write that text wall when this could happen.
As for your point about Kisame being at "200%" post absorbing Bee's chakra...there's zero proof that the chakra Kisame absorbed from Bee was equal to Kisame's preexisting reserves (which are bijuu level) or that Kisame used all his chakra on water dome. A portion of that chakra was already drained to heal Kisame's wound (
You don't get it do you? If kakashi's clone 20% uses Lightning blade, that doesn't mean the OG kakashi's LB would be 5 times stronger. It is still.. LIGHTNING BLADE!! As in it took the same amount of chakra regardless if it was teh clone or OG. KCM Naruto is literally the perfect example! Do you think his SM Rasenshuriken was weaker then Base Rasenshuriken? Since naruto's clone was 1/20(?) does that mean it was a fraction weaker? NO! because the jutsu's Rank and chakra needed is predetermined and set! Unless a Jutsu states "User can increase the chakra" or things alike then don't assume it could be bigger just because the OG has more chakra then the clone. Then you clearly do not know the diference in Jutsu level to compare base Rasengan to ODAMA rasengan and higher levels. Is base SM FRS the same as
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? Let that sink in kid.. And again it didnt matter since I allowed WD to happen.
And let me ask you...WHY WOULD ALL 1,000 SHARKS BE IN RANGE OF WIND RELEASE GREAT BREAKTHROUGH!!? It's aoe is shit!
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Nor did opening the 6th Gate even cause the water to be pushed back more than
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away from Gai. The sharks were literally
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when he released the gates. They were within range and right next to the source of the explosion which is a lot different from being barely in range of the explosion or not being in range at all. example: i can't survive a grenade if i'm 1 foot away from it prior to detonation. I can survive it if i'm 10 feet away in the outskirts of the explosion.
It's AOE is great, the tree's in that Forrest far exceed the tree's in Kisames WD by at least 3 times to the point sunlight barely breaches the floor. Damn man... You are super slow!!! You just don't get it. SMH Whether or not they were close on him didnt matter, the fact that the air pressure was able to get rid of them shows there Durability. This is fact! When
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they were not affected at all, yet the Sharks where instantly diminished! They are still water sharks and there bites and durability feats are garbage period! The fact that GWB can increase in it's AOE and Power shows all be has to do is
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of the majority and have clones get rid of the rest. Simple logic. The sharks will not survive, period!
The sharks were all
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yet Gai didn't open the 7th Gate and one shot them all. He used Asaku Jaku instead. Then on the next page he opens 7th Gate and guess what? There's still sharks in the area! [
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]. And lmao at you using
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to support your notion that a fuuton will one shot all the sharks. Again, those were only a few sharks and there were still some in the area after that moment.
-Pressure released from Gates aura >>>>>> Wind Release Great Breakthrough.
-10,000 sharks >>>> 5 sharks.
-The 5 sharks that did get killed from Gai opening 6th Gate were right next to Gai when he opened the Gate. So of course they got vaporized.
-Opening 7th Gate won't one shot all the sharks in canon. So there's absolutely nothing to discuss here.
You literally still don't get it. At this point your Retarded or just plain Ignorant. Guy's Opening of the gates are not designed to do any damage at ALL! It is simply his aura (6th) or sweat (7th) affect after going the levels. The fact that other humans when near both openings of the 6th and 7th weren't affected shows that (WHEN THE SHARKS WHERE IN RANGE) they have PISS POOR DURABILITY FEATS! They are water my guy stop acting as if they are this godly durable creation when I literally posted manga facts and scans of them being blown away by simple air pressure that is not designed to do anything at all. lmao
-Still no reason for all 1,000 sharks to be in Wind Release Great Breakthrough's range.
-Still no proof of Wind Release Great Breakthrough being anywhere near the strength of Gai opening Gates. Being able to knock down a large tree > being able to blow back an enormous amount of water despite the heavy water pressure. Can't believe you're making me sift through this garbage. Oro's henchmen who were right next to him when he set off his fuuton weren't even affected. If you try arguing that's because the fuuton is a directional attack, well you just proved my point. If it's a directional attack it can't kill all the sharks that are surrounding him.
-Kisame wasn't blown back by the aura because he's more durable than his sharks.
-Again, being near the epicenter of a blast when it gets set off is different from being in its outer range.
-The fuuton would be impeded by the water pressure. Doubt it even has enough force to repel the water since it couldn't even blow Sakura backwards.
-Kisame already knew Gai could counter 5 sharks by opening 6th gate. So why did Kisame make 1000 of them against him if they could all get one shotted the same way like you're saying?
-Clones plus the wave of head from left to right would solve that problem my child. Damn use common sense.
- I showed panels of Humans being affected by the Opening of gates (nothing happened), I showed Humans affected by the Wind blast (Naruto blown back super far). This isn't rocket science it seems you simple didn't read anything I posted. The scans and databook was spoon fed to your illiterate ass.
- Kisame not being blown back means nothing, he wasn't suppose to get blown back in the fist place. GATES ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR THAT. LMAO This was just to prove teh affects on humans compared to sharks (and I showed facts that the sharks are just weak)
- What blast????????????????????????????????????????????? Opening gates isn't even suppose to affect the opponent to begin with (fact of manga). WHat blast? The sharks are just that weak my child! This is facts from the manga! Reread carefully what I wrote. Damn you're impossible to talk to since you don't read!
- Oru's Fuuton rips trees from the roots! Yet None of Guy's water "shock waves" affected any of the tree's that were in his and Bee's fight. You sound dumb at this point to think the weak sharks stand a chance based on databook and manga facts!
- First off, the sharks are all the same. Second, He made a thousand to allow
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DO you not read the manga? He knew damn well the sharks would do nothing to guy, it was an attempt to have the
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Manga
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The bold is my favorite part. Lol zero evidence for that statement, and the worst part is you're backing it up with a databook hyperbole on how "it blows back everything in his line of sight". Obviously untrue seeing how Team 7 was in his line of sight and they weren't blown back (
Tree's and there roots being pulled up>>>>Water sharks. You sound and look dumb at this point. Plus the fact he was playing with Naruto's team makes you even more dumb since he can increase the power based on the databook. And the fact Naruto was easily blown back both times it was used. Please be quiet at this point. Scans have already been posted just reread for once, I dont like wasting my time with NOOBs.
"The snakes were clumped together because of gravity"...even you. Even you I didn't think would make a claim this dumb. If there are 10,000 snakes quickly gushing out of a single, tiny exit point (Orochimaru's mouth) those writhing snakes are going to get tangled together in a big clump.
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isn't different from
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. It has nothing to do with gravity. It's because of how quickly those snakes are exiting from a single point. Being in water will change very little in that regard, and they won't be able to untangle themselves and spread out faster than the water sharks can corral them. A water shark's feat of crossing Turtle Island faster than Gai did is already enough to prove the massive speed difference between fodder snakes like that (with no speed feats) and Kisame's suiton sharks in their natural environment. Posting snake facts instead of manga panels doesn't cut it. That doesn't bridge the gap in speed between the sharks and the snakes. Just goes to show how desperate you're getting.
If they got "Tangled" then how could they advance????? DO you even read what You write? In water (I drew a picture btw) they will be able to spread out in literally all directions once released! on land they where even able to create a Wave which shows they where not "tangled" or "clumped". I assumed you meant something else more smart, It appears you simply stated a retarded notion that meant nothing. and OFC Gravity will keep them grounded and not fly in the air dumb ass. But in water they would have the affect to go in all directions. And your still using Kisame and a Shark feat from crossing the turtle as all the sharks can move that fast. lmao Just delete your account please! When it is manga fact the sharks are regular speed and nothing serious. Snakes move just fine in water just like land, hell they were advancing on land super fast yet ignoring manga feats and life facts you think they will not be able to move well just because they are in water? I'm tempted to delete your account myself at this point.
I can tell you put a lot of effort into that picture. What a damn shame that you wasted your time with that. Lol. I'm just going to list all the reasons why you're wrong.
-No feats of Hydra replicating Orochimaru's jutsu. That alone shits on your entire premise. If you claim that Hydra can use 10,000 snakes and make them simultaneously come out of each head's mouth...you'd have to claim Hydra can use Orochimaru's other oral-based ninjutsu from its mouths like Oral Rebirth, Kusanagi, extendable tongue, etc. And there's not one reason it would be able to do all that.
-Definitely no feats of Hydra using the same jutsu come out of all its mouths simultaneously.
-Sharks are still faster. So there's still nothing stopping them from swimming circles around the snakes and immobilizing them with their current. Again, you haven't proved the snakes are fast enough to spread out before they get boxed in...let alone untangle themselves from the mass that they're in first. Not to mention how much faster the jutsu execution speed of 1,000 sharks is and how they were able to spread out fast enough to where Gai couldn't kill them all with Asakujaku despite them being grouped together when Gai used the jutsu.
Pic took no more then 5 min's to make, did you not go to 5th grade art class?
-
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Damn son read the manga. ORU IS HYDRA MY SON not a summon, it's a transformation jutsu.
- Oru comes out of the mouths via clones or simply Have the mouths spit them out. HYDRA IS ORU, did you think it was a seperate entity and oru simply disappeared???
- Feats of them being faster? They have zero speed feats when they were in the water against Guy. Then you still do not know how long it would take for a shit load of sharks to start the process of swimming around (if more then 5 could) since the area to cover is much larger the affect would be less likely (fact of life). It's a reason why on 5 is listed in the databook to do that affect since 5 would close the gap. And if i choose to ignore common sense and life facts, even then the giant shakes dispose of the sharks no diff! Plus the fact the snakes will be in all directions in the water. This illogical strategy is out the the door the first time you posted it, and is redundant at this point.
>Gives Hydra ability to spew snakes from all seven heads at once.
>Says 1,000 sharks can't create a current, when 5 sharks could. Because it's a "baseless claim."
The double standards are strong with this kid. Guess the incessant Orochimaru wank will never end with you.
>Hydra is ORU (FACT)
>To suggest they could would ignore life and common sense. Do you even know how things work under water? Damn I swear you seem like a 10 year old in the head. 5 have a smaller AOE to cause the affect, 1000 would not only have to build the momentum of circling for atleast a mile around the sharks to cause any type of affect, they would then even hope the snakes stay together when i showed they wouldn't. Plus the giant snakes breaking there orgi up even more shits on the retarded notion a thousand could instantly replicate the 5 with teh same exact effects. lmao
10/10 genius strategy. Completely foolproof, it's not like SNAKES WOULD JUST FUCKIN' GET SWEPT UP BY THE CURRENT? Lmao you're really reaching kid. I've already posted scans proving that snake summons are physically very weak seen by how they were getting beat up by the likes of Part 1 Naruto. I'll post them again so you can get it through your thick skull.
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(his leg suffered no damage despite being smashed by a big snake. Meaning said snake was very weak.)
Could you atleast come with your own phrases instead of jocking my "reaching". haha No originality this one has.
**Sigh** The fact that your strategy of 1000 replicating what 5 did in a smaller area was already mentally retarded. But you don't understand that breaking them up causing a frenzy is what I wanted. Giant snakes>>>>Water sharks no question! The mass alone and the fact that they are real entities shit on your notion the sharks are "Durable" let alone more durable then a solid giant snake.
Base guy was restrained because he was in the water and was previously hit hard to end up floating in the water. Thus causing the sharks to incorporate the jutsu used. Otherwise Guy woudl easily have one shotted the sharks no diff.
1,000 sharks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 sharks. Therefore a current created by 1,000 sharks will be much stronger than a current created by 5 sharks.
lmao!!! Do you know what area they would have to swim and how fast they would have to swim to duplicate what the 5 sharks did in a smaller area of affect??? Do you not know about Speed, velocity, distance etc etc??? To think 1000 bunched up sharks could duplicate what the 5 did perfectly... Damn son... Let alone think Oru and Co would just sit in one spot and watch? LMAo
1,000 sharks current >>>>>>> 5 sharks current > Base Gai > Part 1 Naruto > Snake summon. In terms of physical strength. So those snakes get swept up by the current no difficulty. Then what does Kisame do? He swims up to the snake,
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, and sucks out their chakra through a bone, like a mosquito sucking up blood from an animal.
Did you just say 5 water sharks over Guy??????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????? Then Naruto>Giant snakes like manda and Aoda?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???? DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There. Got it? I had to dumb it down for you. And to make matters worse, Orochimaru using his boss snakes to attack sharks means they're not being used to occupy Kisame. So Kisame can just focus on taking out Orochimaru instead of bothering with snakes.
You have no idea How many large snakes Oru has do you? lol Only 1 or 2 is needed to Destroy what is left of the 1000 sharks that were left from being done in by Oru in the beginning. Plus the snakes with sword easily destroying the other few left. Dude you sound and look dumb with this retarded strategy. Oru will hav eplenty of Co. to help in this fight my child, Just wait on it.
Not to mention, there's Great Shark Bullet which can one shot all the fodder 10,000 snakes at once meaning Kisame doesn't even need to use suiton sharks. Or it can one shot boss snakes.
Not to mention when he attempts it on a few Snakes in his Path He gets one shotted By ORU himself! Dude stop switching your strategies, at this point you contradict what you originally posted by spouting new bs. Him using GSB on small snakes scatter every where not only means he leaves himself open for counter attack from ORu and co, but also kill his other sharks that are supposedly trying to circle his snakes (with that retarded impossible plan i already debunked).
Did you atleast tell him thank you for giving you that Viz scan that took you 3 weeks to see and finally post (when you didnt the first 2 post)? Damn you're looking mighty inconsistent at this point my child.
So...half of this isn't relevant to Zetsu coming out of the water. At all. Those scans literally do nothing to support the retarded notion that Zetsu can literally merge with water using Mayfly. Show me scans of Zetsu merging with the water, oh wait there are none. See? Two can play at this game. At this point you're an angry kid in denial who can't even form a coherent argument. Demanding scans when the burden of proof is on you doesn't help your case.
And yet you cannot prove me wrong. Damn I must be getting to you for you to look this desperate! I literally showed you multiple scans of the ParaClones being a Jutsu that creates other clones of the OG! Yet you think they magically merged with the host he put them on? Paraclones is a jutsu as stated manga facts!
We have this page:
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And we have several posibillities on what happened here: 1) Zetsu clones emerged from the ground and went up to the water's surface and 2) Zetsu literally merged with the water. The first scenario is much more likely because
-Zetsu have never shown, stated or implied to be able to merge with water. Only people that can merge with water are Hydrification users.
-They were located right on the edge of the river
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. That's a clear indication of shallow water. There is no scan of the water being shallow because the author didn't waste time drawing a panel underwater since it holds no plot relevance. So there goes your point about Zetsu coming out of the water "super fast with no lag time". Shallow water means the Zetsus didn't need to travel far at all.
JUTSU MY CHILD, JUTSU! lmmfao This one scan plus the many other I posted with manga facts kill your entire thought process! Oru can create other ZOru Paraclones. Manga fact! Plus the fact they remotely have to ability to transfer as much chakra as they want to the other Paraclones. Manga fact! You didnt read a thing I posted i can see.
All I'm seeing is pure denial. "Zetsu clones are as strong as the original, prove me wrong." That's your argument right there. Only by your retarded logic would Oro's clones be as strong as he is. The only time we ever saw the original Zetsu in battle is when he got
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just like Zetsu clones were (
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) so how am I supposed to prove he's stronger? Is there any proof of Onoki's rock clones being weaker than the original? Nope, does that mean they are just as strong as the original?
Being as strong doesnt mean having equal chakra my child. I already stated they wouldn't have the same chakra. But with
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they will get as much as oru wants to give them for any jutsu they need to use. And FYI your clone example was horrible, If you needed a better example you should have asked me to debate myself.
You didn't actually counter anything I said. Difference between original Zetsu and Zetsu clone is minimal because Zetsu are so weak already. Difference between Orochimaru and his clone would be much bigger due to chakra differences.
And Chakra transfer increase there chakra. Read everything my child! The manga is there to help not deceive.
And yet, every single white zetsu in existence has senju DNA but they're fodder level? Seems like you don't understand that having Hashirama's DNA doesn't equate to suddenly gaining shit tons of chakra. The only Senju DNA that Orochimaru got was whatever DNA that was in that White Zetsu clone's body he took over. Yamato had Hashirama's DNA all his life but his mokuton is fodder so what's your point? And you're comparing Hashirama's cells which were injected directly into Danzo's body to...the white zetsu body that Orochimaru took over...and you're claiming...that will give him a similar chakra boost? Lol, please stop being a clown. Not only that, but it's a known fact that you need both the powers of the Senju and Uchiha to use izanagi so Hashirama's cells only augmented his ability to use those sharingans. If a White Zetsu body will give all of Oro's ninjutsu a massive boost because of Hashi DNA like you're claiming, then Danzo's fuuton and other abilities would have been amplified, except they weren't.
Yet you speak of plain ol zetsu, not Orochimaru who is clearly stronger with Hasi's DNA and
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out of edo because of his added DNA making Oru's powers stronger. Danzo being stronger aswell etc etc. The databook lietrally stated Oru and Danzo being stronger because of Hashi's DNA, please be quiet at this point! And you Literally do not know that Fushi tensei adds Oru the powers of the host he took over, not he uses there body and is now there level. Damn your stupid as fuq! Its Healthy Oru plus who ever's powers/KKG/abilities/jutsu. Otherwise Oru would be as weak as the girl who's body he took over. And the manga stated he was able to harness that many sharingans because of Hashiramas DNA, stop being slow please!! To say His DNA doesn't make you better is the dumbest shit you stated!
Too bad all that chakra is absorbed in ten seconds flat once they enter CQC. Too bad Kisame still has ten times more chakra. Too bad that playing around with V2 Bee is a way better feat than whatever Oro did with 4 tails Naruto.
A weakened Kisame escaped Turtle Island, used 1,000 suiton sharks, used GSB, tanked Hirudora, bit off his own tongue to break genjutsu, broke free of chakra supressing mokuton, and fed himself to the hungry jaws of his own sharks. Kisame is a f**king savage. He rips Orochimaru's throat out and eats his body after Samehada devours Orochimarus chakra as a light snack.
Scan stating he has ten times more chakra? yes he has more, but that doesn't mean Oru has little when it is manga fact he has one of the biggest chakra pools in the manga (all three sanin do). And it was Bee playing with Kisame my child. If Bee wanted to Kisame would have been demolished no diff!
Kisame wasn't "weak" after he stole some of bee's and Sama's chakra. So that kills the rest of your post.
Hmm Comparing standard blows to Kusanagi. Yea Delete that account about now please! Manga fact they go splash and are weaker!
Doesn't change the fact that it's possible to make a chakra copy of Samehada exactly like Pain did. Doesn't change the fact that the chakra duplicate
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. Doesn't matter if Samehada is alive because Pein made a chakra copy using his jutsu in canon. So there's nothing stopping Kisame from making his own chakra
Pain used a Rinnegan Justu, what part of that don't you understand???????? Does Kisame have the rinngean or anything close? No! So please show Water clone jutsu doing what Pain did! You look dumb as fuq think Kisame and Pain have the same justu. Please Read and understand what Shoten No jutsu is and what Suiton Clone is! Please!
Already debunked this. No they wouldn't have the same durability as normal water clones. Increased chakra = increased durability, same reason why shadow clones with lots of chakra are more durable than shadow clones with little chakra. Then there's chakra absorption capabilities meaning the attacking jutsu gets absorbed before it can even do damage. Then there's the healing factor meaning whatever damage actually gets done to these clones is repaired nigh instantly. So yeah, Kisame's clones can fuse and distribute chakra however they want to.
Wait what???? Increased chakra equals more durability?????? You just basically ignored all databook and manga facts and made some Bull ish up. Damn you not only gave Kisame Shoten No jutsu as his own jutsu even though it's pains, you also made some BS up with Zero proof. Looking pathetic the more and more I read!
There are no scans of him doing it because that was off panel. Kisame didn't need to give chakra to Zetsu since Zetsu could have just taken it from him.
What was off panel? Damn you're steady making stuff up with no support what so ever.
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. Kisame wasn't even looking at it because he was attacking someone else, and he still noticed it right next to his head and still was able to move his head completely to dodge it. Kisame's feat is way more impressive. @Bold by that logic you could say anything is a baseless claim since you can't measure time in a manga accurately (which isn't true). Please stfu about "baseless claims".
And yet again he still dodged it! Doesn't take away from the fact he dodged it. And I see you changed it to Zetsu having that feat when at first when you THOUGHT It was Kisame who had this feat you stated this, QUOTE;
Beans post from is opener:
Kisame can deal with most of those snakes with minimal difficulty and Manda with moderate difficulty. I'll explain. First off snakes aren't landing hits on Kisame. Kisame's reactions in base and on land are good enough for him to:
-Dodge a raiton Vibrato pencil (x)
-Defend against three attacks coming at him simultaneously and counter them all in an instant.
-React to V1 Bee charging him, then fling him away [1][2]
-Dodge a lightning pencil again (x)
So when it was a Kisame feat it was worth bragging about? But when I debunked you and made you look stupid for thinking it was kisame when really it was Zetsu you now wanna down play it? You look really fishy with all the back tracing your'e doing.
The strength of waves are dependant on force, not mass. The longitudinal waves produced by the snakes movements are by their nature weaker than the snake itself, so for your goldfish example, the moving hand has more force than the waves of water it creates, are you following? Same with the snakes and the water waves their movements might create. When
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, that shows that he would be able to resist the much weaker force of the waves created by the snake. So Kisame who is >>>>>>> Naruto in physical strength (
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to have superhuman strength,
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, breaking free of chakra supressing wooden stocks while he's extremely weakened [
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], blocking Gai's kick [
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] and not moving an inch) he'd easily be able to resist the force of waves coming at him. Your premise is especially wrong since you're assuming Kisame is just going to stand there and take it when he could be quickly swimming forward meaning that in order to knock him back the wave would have to equal his forward momentum + much much more force than the work the snake enacted on Naruto to even knock back Kisame a few feet. Kisame
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and was only knocked back a little bit, indicated by how the distance between him and Master Kin had not increased by much pre and post lariat [
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][
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]. And that was Kisame just standing there taking the brunt of the attack instead of actively resisting by moving forward. In terms of force, V2 lariat >>>> tail whip >>>> underwater waves caused by tail whip and in terms of active resistance kisame swimming forward while fused >>> kisame standing in base and taking the attack >>> part 1 naruto standing there and stopping the attack.
The Snakes force plus Mass easily Out powers anything In Kisames Arsenal my child. Damn Im not surprised I have to break it down to you yet again. Naruto not being crunched by the crack of the snakes mouth doesn't equal Naruto being able to lift the entire snakes body mass altogether. lmao Then you still think all the snakes are the same level. LmaoX2 Then you went on to say Kisame was only blown back because he "tanked" v2 lariat, no! He was stopped by a tree and Sama absorbed most the chakra from the blow, please read the manga. And your examples are super flawed how is V2 lariat on land better then Mandas waves under water when the two do not compare in the slightest!!! You are trying so hard but make no sense what so ever because your examples literally do not compare in the slightest! Kisame will be affected by the force of the waves period! This is non disputable! Your examples are horrid!
Not to mention the currents caused by the snakes' movements are longitudinal meaning the displacement of the medium is in the same direction as the direction of the travel of the wave. In other words it moves towards Kisame not around him meaning he can sidestep the attack. At best, the waves created by the snakes missed blows would be able to keep Kisame at bay once, then kisame evades it and is able to make contact with the snake on his second attempt or he simply powers through it. Manda is the only one that might provide any trouble, and GSB can kill it if all else fails.
And again the waves would cause him to keep off track once he avoids thus making him change Directions! You literally just proved my point, reread the post next time! This makes opening for other snakes or Oru whim self to capitalize and counter attack. A missed opportunity equals a new opening. You probably still don't get it at all. And again if he attempts GSB on any thing He is wide open fro Oru to kill him form all directions! You still don't get that GSB makes him focus on one direction with both his hands facing forward. Please read your own jutsu my child.
LMAAAAAOOOO OMG THIS IS GOLD.... you posted a scan of Kisame attacking Gai and was about to land a hit on him (due to his superior striking speed) when Lee was able to intervene at the last moment while Kisame was distracted and protect his sensei!!!!! You actually just posted a very impressive speed feat of kisame, he traveled through midair and was going to smack him with Samehada before Gai could react accordingly so your post is null and void, "moot pint" as you would say HAHAHAHA! Your too busy editing images on microsoft paint and looking up snake facts that i guess you dont have any time to actually counter my arguments, very sad. RIP draegon
Stating Kisame has superior striking speed to Guy! lmmfao hahahahhahahahahahaha
Lmao Read and look at the pictures I drew out carefully ( I even added arrows with colors so you could get it). Lee and Gai are both in front of him in his Line of site. FACT! Yet When Lee sped up to blitz him, he stood no chance. You first state he could dodge Bee's Pencil with out looking as a god feat, as well as he dodging 3 attacks at once being a god feat, but when Lee was clearly in his Line of site and kicks him your excuse is "Kisame was distracted and protect his sensei". You literally just killed your own argument my child! lmao Please stop switching your own info up, try to stay in one lane.
whether he was blitzing or not doesn't make the feat irrelevant when it's bee still has very impressive reactions without shunshin (wrecked sasuke in swordplay) yet he still wasn't able to parry Kisame literally lifting him up with Samehada and flinging him aside (
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)(
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). Not to mention Kisame already reacted to Bee's blitz in base along with 2 other attacks (
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). Bee threw a raiton vibrato sword at him, then moved to another angle and attacked from that angle using shunshin, yet both the sword he threw and Bee himself reached Kisame at the same time despite him throwing the blade prior to attacking on foot (meaning Bee was moving faster than the sword he threw, hence his incredibly fast shunshin.) This puts Kisames reactions above Taka Sasuke's. Early Shippuden Sasuke was blitzing Orochimaru left and right and casually reacting to all their attacks in their canon battle.
So let me get this straight; You stated he "blitz" i Debunk, now you're back tracking? This killed your post even more. Bee using Arobatics on Sasuke is not him Blitzing, they weren't even in running motion. You are still using irrelevant feats from other situations that have nothing to do with anything Kisame! Then you think Punta is fast? lmao And again Bee literally never once "Blitz" kisame ever in life! Him running forward isn't considering blitz. You don't even know what Blitz is still till this day it would seem. Then you state kisame has better reaction feats then Sasuke????? When bee's friend literally seen the entire sequence. And Sauke was battling a sick literally death bed oru and was needed CM2 to stand a chance and even then it didn't matter. Oru reacte dto Sauske attemting to stab him no diff whiel in his death bed yet you think Kisame has better striking speed then sasuke and Gai? lmao
You stated Kisame has better reaction feats then 3 tomoe sasuke!!! lmao This is rich!
Science videos =/= naruto manga scans. Kisame and his sharks are still much faster by feats making this point moot.
LMMFAO This post just showed you went Full Suicide mode!
Scince videos? lmao Its called facts! That's like saying Snakes can't bite since I don't have scans of them biting. lmao
This post just showed you lack common sense.
K i'll agree with the point about food cart destroyer. it knocked down the kyubi's head after all.
Yomi Numa doesn't "instantly" turn the ground into mud. The fact that the snake didnt react to Yomi Numa isnt what shows the snake has terrible reactions. The fact that the snake HAD ALREADY SUNK HALFWAY INTO THE SWAMP BEFORE IT EVEN NOTICED IT WAS SINKING IS WHAT PROVES ITS SHITTY REACTIONS! Lmao the snake's exclamation mark is a clear indicator of the fact that it had
Ofc I was right, the fact you don't know what blitz is shows how dumb you sounded. And what are you saying with Yomi noma? It is liquid a giant heavy snake sunk in. What does that have to do with anything kisame has ever showed??????
Those snakes were all portrayed to be on the same level and one doesnt have reaction feats that put it above the other. The 2 snakes summoned during the Sannin showdown as well as the snake Oro used in the forest of death both have equally shitty reactions and you didnt give any evidence to prove any other snake besides manda had better ones. All you showed me were science videos which dont constitute as reaction feats for boss summons.
Show scans of portrayal of them being on the same level???
Aoda (アオダ)
Kana: アオダ
Databook romanisation: AODA
Village: —
Rank: —
Ninja registration number: —
Birthday: 1st October (? years old, Libra)
Height: ? cm Weight: ? kg Blood type: ?
Personality: Simple
↑ By weavingly making progress through the gaps between waiting enemies, it easily broke through the center of the enemy's lines!!
How [can I serve you? or so], Sasuke-sama
Boldly pushing forward without shaking, serving its master with loyalty, a calm and level-headed great python snake!
A big snake that lives in the Dragon Earth Cave and was summoned by Sasuke. It's endowed with a body and strength that comes close to Manda and Second Manda, as well as an infrared-ray sensing organ. It once saved Sasuke's life and has been loyal to him ever since.
Show feats of him being over deva in similar situations of similar jutsu's or Taijutsu. Deva easily sparred with 3 tomoe Kakashi no dif and not serious yet you think Kisame could do better?
The point isn't whether or not Manda was distracted since I'm not talking about Manda's reactions, I'm referring to Gamabunta's striking speed...which he executed before Manda could even snap at Katsuyu from almost no distance away (which given snakes' striking speeds, is extraordinarily fast.) The feat still stands, Gamabunta could quickly intercept.
The point is manda easily reacted literally the last second when he didnt even see bunta since he was focused on eating Katsuya. He had to widen his mouth and attempt to swallow katsuya whole, Yet he at the last second reacted no diff! Please do better.
Yeah I already factored in the fact that it was a feint. Gamabunta still reacted to it meaning Kisame does so with much less difficulty. And Kisame won't fall for feints like that. @Bold how does it even matter that Gai wasnt running? He was catapulted by Bee and was traveling through the air extremely fast then used a turtle as a stepping stone, jumping off it with so much force that it let him cross the remainder of the journey in one leap. Kisame's head start is a negligible difference since it was mere seconds and
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AND ON TOP OF THAT KISAME HAD ALREADY SUMMONED A SHARK AND WAS SENDING IT OFF WHEN GAI ARRIVED AT THE SCENE (
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). @Underline ViZ already debunked your idiotic statement. lol. Mandas mass is nothing before kisames chakra absorption capabilities and its striking speed is still far to slow to catch Kisame. Not to mention the underwater waves are either easily avoided or simply powered through as I explained a couple paragraphs above.
No you didnt, otherwise you wouldnt had stated that and am now back stepping your og post. lol And you're comparisons are null and void since they are not the same or even compare considering a toads (giant toad at that) body is built and bone structure. Gai running>>>Kisame that is why. To think Kisame is faster then Gai on land is foolish (plus Kisame clearly had a huge head start. lmao)! And you still didnt prove how he over powers manga and the force of his body mass under water. Plus Oru and other snakes easily preventing any attempts of that useless strategy. Manda would never get his chakra instantly absorbed by kisame.
Kisame has better reactions than Deva and 3 toads aren't far off from manda's striking speed and far above any other of Orochimaru's snakes.
Manda's Striking speed well over Any toad. Period and fact! And How do you even compare if kisame has better reaction feats? A pencil??? Really?? lmao
Bones do not ignore freaking chakra cloaks, now you're really reaching. Bee vs Kisame's head butt doesn't hold a shred of relevance to that considering Samehada absorbed his cloak before their heads made contact (
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) it absorbed the cloak off him via Samehada making contact with Bee's sword. I've pointlessly argued with you for two posts now about an obvious feat from Kisame's bones and you're in denial screaming about how it didn't do it, making up excuses and trying to downplay the feat. is there a single shred of evidence pointing toward the bones not piercing? Nope.
If you absorb the chakra cloak on contact how does it not ignore it when it is useless to begin with??? You dont get it at all kid. It is fact It still didn't breach his skin unless you're stating Bee's Skin is more durable then V2 cloak? lmao
LAdies and gentlemen this is what we call desperate reaching. It's canon fact that
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after a few seconds of Samehada absorbing his chakra which was not leaking in any way and Samehada never pierced his skin either. After Bee catapulted Gai away he then collapsed
It is also cannon fact that The snakes are 30 times larger and there chakra is more spread out through out there bodies and not concentrated in one spot. Sama is roughly the size of a human if not larger so of course he would be able to (with in seconds) absorb something smaller or similar in size faster. This is common sense my child.
Yeah, Kisame's bones have the better feats and piercing power. Buntas sword is a simple machine (wedge) that is much bigger so it can exert force over a wider area doing more work. That doesnt mean its penetrative force is stronger, Kisame's bones would have no problem piercing Shukaku's body either so you have no point here. Bee's limbs were cut by metal shuriken and his other tentacles so i'm not seeing how cutting off shukakus limb is supposed to be some extraordinary feat. It's literally made of sand.
You literally make zero sense at this point! Comparing Buntas sword to tiny bones stating it could replicate better feats? llmao please please just stop! They do not compare at all. You steady make retarded comparisons my child.
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The fact that Kisame has never stabbed a boss summon in the eye (or even been in a fight with a boss summon for that matter) doesn't constitute as proof that he can't do it. Whereas unless you can somehow prove an eyelid is more durable than a V1 Jin cloak...we have nothing to discuss here. Those snakes get blinded.
Lmao and the fact that you don't know how durable the Eye lids are (let alone anything being showed to stab any summon in the eye) doesn't constitute that it could be done and be effective. I can do this all day my child. Plus the fact they wouldn't just stay still and let there eye let alone face be attacked and do nothing. And the fact they use Vibrations from the water to help sense makes it an all around dumb post. Reaching for the stars I see! lmao
I clearly showed you two links comparing the two to a boss toad and proving they are around the same size. I didn't think I'd literally have to draw this out for you but your reading comprehension sucks so maybe pictures will work better.
Boss toad compared to snake in question.
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Boss toad compared to a snake that you said was 5 times bigger.
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There's clearly not a significant difference in size.
Night and day difference in size! lmao What are you reading?
-You can't prove that snake was weaker than any of Oro's boss snakes bar Manda.
-Never claimed Kisame would be able to physically overpower Manda or Hydra. He can absorb their chakras, through Samehada or Great Shark Bullet if needed.
- You can't prove that snake was stronger then any other snake summon bar manda
- You clearly stated he would be able to over power Oru's boss snake summons. lmao reread what you post next time. And Rashomon easily intercepts the attack while he is wide open form counter attacks to end the match!
Almost every scan here you used out of context.
[
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] Samehada didn't even make contact with Asuma so moot point.
[
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] Samehada doesn't automatically absorb chakra on contact, absorption needs to be activated either by Kisame or Samehada, similar to Preta Path (
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.) In that instance Kisame didn't activate Samehada's absorption because he didn't think it necessary and Samehada itself did not use absorption because Asuma's chakra was not at all powerful or appealing.
[
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] Samehada didn't actually make contact with Asuma so moot point.
[
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] Samehada didn't actually make contact with the toad so moot point.
[
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] Absoportion wasn't activated. Kisame couldn't activate it because he wasn't in contact with his blade and Samehada didn't activate absorption because it wasn't hungry for Gai's chakra.
? lmao reread the manga please!
- Scans of these claims? Why wouldn't he absord asumas chakra when he is clearly the opp? That makes no sense especially when I have scans and you have assumptions.
-
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read the manga!
- The toad and his armor are clearly in contact with Sama'. Please read the manga! And add to the fact he couldn't even over power nor out muscle the small toad! Yet you think he is stronger or comparable to Bunta who was easliy out powered by Manda!
- But Sama is alive and easily have been shown to attack on his own as well as give chakra on his own. Your'e looking lost at this point for not knowing our own character.
So now that I've countered those horribly misinterpreted scans I'll show you one scan that shits on your premise.
So now that I destroyed your mis-use of the manga; Sama's mouth was literally around bee's arm. And Sama was roughly the size of Bee, snakes are not the size of a human and all there chakra is not in one spot of there body my child.
This...this isn't an argument. There's nothing to counter here because you didn't explain how he deals with the sharks.
I clearly explained and drew pictures how weak sharks are dealt with! To think the sharks would give him a hard time when he has faced kages and even killed kages is retarded of you! XD
First and foremost, you still couldn't give a counter to Kisame poking out their eyes. So you basically conceded and this point goes to me.
Second I asked you a few months ago if you were interested in joining a Jiraiya fan group because I knew you liked that character. Can't see how you're taking offense to that.
I'm so close to screen shotting you at this point. But it's irrelevant and don't wanna waste time.
Didn't think I'd literally have to quote my first post but I guess this is what happens when I try arguing with an idiot.
Yep. Literally only time I even incorporated that into my argument was when discussing the 10,000 fodder snakes since I agreed from the beginning that Oro's big snakes could swim just fine. And the fodder snakes can still be easily dealt with by either suiton sharks or GSB as I explained in this post and my second one.
And yet you don't see that all snakes can swim (whether big or small) destroyed your post since you banked on them not being able to operate in water. please read your post next time.
That's right 89% of this debate has been me reiterating why you're wrong and you stubbornly denying manga facts.
You have been posting misinterpretations of the manga the entire time. And making comparisons that do not match at all! I've been listing manga, databook and life facts that you're to slow to gasp!
Guess you conceded your original statement about Gamabunta being the size of the water dome, huh? That was too retarded even for you Lol. Haha. No. You're still wrong about snake summons crowding up water dome restricting Kisame's movements. I'm going to list the reasons why one by one.
I never stated Bunta was the size of the dome, please do better! I literally even drew a picture with multiple boss snakes to indicate non of them are bigger. So what are you talking about??? I clearly stated "CROWD" the dome. Please read next time!
1. "near view" or "far view" doesn't change the relative size of the objects in comparison to trees. Here:
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(you used this scan yourself so you can't complain about perspective when it's pretty damn accurate.) Now take the near view of trees compared to boss toads.
1.
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(bottom left)
2.
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It's clear which one is bigger. By a large margin.
And even in the scans you dont get the far view near view. lmao I literally posted a scan of trees close to bunta in comparison and they are drastically smaller no disputing! Hell even here we can see when the tree's are close to him they do not compare in size.
2. The fact that Ponta fell out of the "curving point" as you call it just shows how big the water dome actually is seen by how its the curving point is exactly at the bottom of the dome.
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That's the part where Ponta fell out.
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and he still had a distance to fall before he reached the treeline much less reached the ground.
And again Punta didnt have much time to fall let alone him compared to the trees. The WD is big but not mountain big kid.
3. You're comparing the very large and tall Coniferous trees at Bee and Kisame's location to the much smaller Deciduous trees around Konohas bordering forests!
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It's clear the trees where Bee and Kisame were fighting were much bigger and taller.
and they are not that much bigger and clearly not bigger then the tree's near the leaf village. That is simply you misinterpreting the manga scans as usual.
4. You're saying Orochimaru will be able to have Manda, Hydra, multiple boss snakes, and 10,000 fodder snakes out all at the same time? Manda alone takes a lot of chakra to summon, and your claiming Orochimaru can have all his summons out at the same time in addition to Hydra and other snakes? Lol!!
Lmao Sasuke with barely any chakra was able to summon manda! Oru with out his arms and barely any chakra needing a new body was able to summon Manda and other giant snake! Oru with not even close to his OG chakra was able to transform into Hydra! Oru after using Oral rebirth 3/4 times and being sick summoned 3 Rashomon gates when a Healthy Hasirama is able to summon 2 more then that! Yet you think Oru and his Clones with his new healthy body could not do this. lmao Can't tell if serious!
Kisame easily outlasts Oro.
-They both have regenerative powers, Samehada's healing and Oro's white snake regen powers like oral rebirth. So neither of them are losing from physical exhaustion. After all Samehada can
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a.
-Kisame is a durability beast and if it becomes a drawn out battle he will have to use his healing powers less than Oro will have to use his regenerative powers.
-Kisames healing takes a lot less chakra than Oro's regeneration like Oral rebirth which
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. When Samehada healed Kisame it did not shrink in size [
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]-[
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] even though Samehada's size is proportional to the amount of chakra it has [
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] indicating that it did not take a significant amount of chakra to heal him.
-Kisame's chakra reserves >>>>> Orochimaru's chakra reserves. Please do not make me post scans proving this when it's common knowledge that Kisame has bijuu level reserves and his feats shit on oro's feats: spitting out a lake, making 3 water clones, using suiton sharks while only at 30% chakra; and using 1,000 suiton sharks and great shark bullet without Samehada's chakra while in a weakened state.
-As the battle goes on
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. Kisame does not tire, kisame does not fall. As the battle goes on he will be hitting licks on the chakra of snake summons and taking it for himself. Samehada converts it into stamina or he can use it for ninjutsu or healing himself. This is a battle where Kisame can drag it out for as long as he wants and in the end he can easily triumph by outlasting with his superior chakra.
Zetsu don't need air nor food. If you wanna just sit around doing nothing Kisame will die first no doubt!
- Agreed
- White snake regen ability plus hasiramas cells naturally heals on it's own. The databook specifically states Hashirama's Cells are "ALIVE". Oral rebirth is not even needed.
- Rebirth is not needed when he has auto healing powers in the form of both White snake and Hashirama DNA.
- Never stated he had more then Kisame, they both have a shit ton. A healthy Hashi DNA Oru is not too far behind. With the feats he has shown while sick and on death row.
- Zetsu Do not tire! Oru can easily take limbs from spore clones or auto heal just like Obito (with zetsu attached btw) did against kakashi, guy, naruto and bee. Hashi auto heal is OP if you didnt know!
No those snakes are fodder. Kisame kills them. Or his sharks do. "No diff."
How would kisame deal with them and Oru at the same time? Your back tracing yet again.
Lol, oh boy.
Orochimaru isn't bisecting Kisame with Kusanagi when he couldn't even put down Tsunade with Kusanagi. Samehada instantly heals damage and Kisame can just snatch it with his hands [
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] stopping its momentum (his reaction feats allow him to do so easily as well as avoid Kusanagi straight up.)
What are you talking about? Oru already stabbed Tsnuna and slashed her
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!!! He can easily transform into the 4th Raikage and With the added Muscles do major damage if Oru's tongue was able to to that much damage while being sick and dying! And his Brain when stabbed is instant death btw!
Orochimaru has to physically touch Kisame to transform into him. This battle ends in Kisame's victory when it comes down to CQC, which it inevitably will. Kisame and Oro can exchange hits and whereas Kisame can tank and heal from them, Orochimaru cannot tank chakra absorption which leaves him dead. Literally the act of touching Kisame to copy his chakras means his own chakras get drained at an even faster rate! This strategy is such a fail. Not only is it impossible for Oro to transform into Hanzo but fused Kisame is much much much faster than Hanzo underwater. Taking the databook translation of "Hanzo being fastest in the water" literally is totally wrong on so many levels especially since that databook was released before Kisame Shark Mode was even introduced. By your logic Hanzo is faster than Kaguya underwater because databook said hes fastest in the water.
No, Zetsu can transform to any ninja he has EVER TOUCHED (manga fact). He has already cannonly transformed into Kisame already, fact! And Since He is now Oru and Zetsu its everyone they have already touched! And Yes Hanzo is still the fastest under water until stated otherwise, and the New databook has yet to change his already known fact! And besides that Transforming into Kisamehada is already a tie for speed so you're wasting your time at this point.
Oro binding Kisame with snakes? When even
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Your desperation is getting to a whole other level. Kisame rips those snakes in half, bites their heads off, slices them apart with his bones etc. The exact same situation will go down as when Bee wrapped Kisame in his tentacles, they are ineffective towards him and the whole time Orochimaru gets his chakra drained.
Oru's Snakes stopped and out powered the GOD Tree no diff from a angle that makes zero sense!! God tree mokuton>>>>>>>YamatoX10!!! Bee with weak tentacles were easily able to out power and move kisame to where he wanted to move (fact). Yet you think Oru with Stronger snakes that easily Bind kisame wont hold him long enough for a kill shot. lmao
Oro gets his head close to deliver CM? Bone sprouting from Kisames body goes straight up his mouth as he attempted to deliver the bite. Or Kisame rips his head off. Your pick. Cut his head off with Kusanagi? Not likely since Kusanagis power lies in its piercing abilities, not its slicing abilities. Orochimaru has to turn his head to move his sword in a slicing motion so its slicing capabilities are only as strong as Oro's neck muscles which is what that motion is reliant on. Not enough to do significant damage to someone as durable as Kisame. Especially not when there's Samehada's healing factor which repairs damage nigh instantly since the two are fused. Water dilutes poison already countered. Kisame would tear off the binding snakes and get the heal out of there waaaaaaaaaay before Orochimaru can fully transform into hydra mode.
WTF??? Show Bones not from his Arm popping up! lmmfao hahahahah At this point your making everything up out your ass. This is getting sad and I feel bad that you have not scans nor logic to support the majority of your claims.
Kisame with his shark arms will never be ale to reach the back of his head, try again. Oru with the sword in his mouth has to move his head to slice, nothing about his arms my child. Kusanagi was able to rough even Diamond form Enma yet you think Kisame is more durable then Diamond. lmao Please stop! And know, water does not dilute poison, the poison spreads out to the point it is less concentrated to kick in faster. Learn the differences! Hydra is already on the field my child pay attention!
Lol the fact that Samehada eats all of Oro's chakra as a light snack.
Lmao the fact you think Oru would allow him to and do nothing When Oru's been on the offense the entire time and you keep contradicting your previous post with every new post.
Orochimaru can physically touch Kisame to begin transforming but then gets his chakra completely drained on contact.
Because he blocked it! It doesn't compare to the other hits that easily damaged him when they were not blocked.
1. Half that post was assumptions. I didnt change my argument because I was using the strategy of Kisame shooting GSB down on Hydra from directly above from my first post. This is a full intel fight in case your forgetting and Kisame can predict Orochimaru would attempt to block it so he'd make sure to he gets a clear shot at Hydra so he can execute this strategy by shooting off shark bullets from different angles. and theres also the fact that Orochimaru can't differentiate between Kisame and his clones so he won't know where to summon the snake in order to block GSB. And theres nothing wrong with changing my strategy if i wanted to since your premises have multiple counters and i'm not even listing them all. BTW who is to say the shark wouldn't just rip through the snake and continue its forward linear motion? The way it will go is this: GSB makes contact with the snake and sinks its teeth into it then sucks its chakra out as its "fangs shred the enemy to pieces" (direct quote from databook.) Next the shark will swallow the snake
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and suck its chakra out. Next the snake will die because it will have no chakra left. Next the snake disappears in a puff of smoke. THEN, the shark missile continues traveling forward (having gotten bigger and more powerful from the snake's chakra that it just absorbed) and then do the same thing to Hydra!
LMAO Did you just say kisame can predict Oru will do everything when he does it??? DO you even know what Full intel means? It means you know what they can do, not what they will do. lmmao this is where the debate is over! You literally just shitted on your own post! First you state Kisame will fight the giant snakes, then you stated he would fight base oru (when Oru is in hydra), then you stated he would GSB the 10,000+ snakes, then you stated he would fight at the top of the dome shooting GSB downwards when you first stated he would shoot it regularly. lmao please just stop!!! You're all over the place with no foundation changing everything you do.
Rashomon>>>GSB! Then Giant snake take the blunt attempt while Oru simply moves out the way thus avoiding it no diff. Or have clones and sharks no diff attack Kisame thus ending the jutsu mid way.
3. Ok I'm reading the databook for that jutsu and it says it bursts towards the target its aimed at which implies it is indeed a linear jutsu so i can agree with this. However the problem with your Hydra strategy...is that Hydra can't even touch Kisame. It's literally a big ass slow snake that can't reach Kisame if hes out of range. Fact 1: it needs to stay on the seabed (AKA the ground) if Oro wants to succesfully use his rashomon strategy (gates cant rise up out of the ground to save oro if he is completely surrounded by an expanse of water on all sides.) Fact 2: Even if Hydra was somehow able to swim after Kisame, the shark man is much faster so he can swim away and then
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with GSB. Fact 3: Oro's zetsu clones are too weak to do a thing to kisame so he remains safe. Fact 4.....KISAME CAN FREAKIN' OUTLAST HYDRA EASILY. No way in hell is Oro maintaining that mode without running out of chakra quickly forcing him to revert to his normal form. not to mention Kisame outlasts Orochimaru anyway since he has shiitloads more chakra and stamina than him (covered this a few paragraphs back). So Oro going hydra mode is absolutely useless when he cant do a thing to kisame who can just stay out of range and outlasts with ease.
-Who says it has to stay on the seabed? Where did you get that notion from??? And rasomon will easily plow thru water, why do you think his water is a solid?
- Faster with snakes in literally every direction and a shit ton of Clones and summons? Again you act as though I haven't already set you up. You're back tracing yet again. Rashomon speed>GSB handseals then release.
- Says who? They are durabale just like OG, and with Oru giving them chakra remotely they will be able to do any jutsu Oru wants them to use.
- Oru in hydra plus multiple Giant summons and Giant snakes and Orther real Oru clones plus Shadow clones will easily catch kisame eventually! To suggest he would be able to some how be untouched when you already stated he would Engage CQC is foolish! Spore clones literally stop his progress every single time when he least expect it. Even a split secon is all that is needed for Hydra to grab him or Manda or a Snake in the form of another savage beast.
1. Quote from jutsu databook entry: "it's bottomless appetite is sated by it's fangs shredding the enemy to pieces". Dont need feats of it chewing something into pieces when databook says it can.
2. He takes out the boss snakes as the water sharks keep Orochimaru busy, a premise which you couldn't counter for two posts already.
3. No. Proved this point wrong in my last post and I proved you wrong on this point again at the beginning of this post. "Give it up already"
4. Fact of the manga WATER CLONES DONT GO "POOF" AFTER ONE HIT DUMBAZZ (
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) especially not clones fused with Samehada and having more chakra than ordinary water clones since Kisame can distribute their chakra however he pleases via his sword. And more chakra per clone = higher durability per clone. As proved by how shadow clones can take more damage the more chakra they have individually. So not only do Kisames clones have more chakra, speed, healing abilities, sensing abilities, physical strength....THEY HAVE CHAKRA ABSORPTION ABILITIES ON CONTACT TOO! (
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) Just like the original kisame. Your clones get completely outclassed lol.
5. Lol
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. Derp derp retard! You cant read manga for shit. Hidden snake hands are fodder in front of kisame who can rip them off his body with his hands or shred them apart with his bones. Already countered curse mark like three times. if Oro gets his head near to deliver the bite Kisame sprouts a bone from his body and shoves it up Oro's mouth, all the while Oro is getting his chakra absorbed. Actually your snake hands strategy is beyond stupid since making contact with Kisames body just means those snakes get their chakra absorbed and die in seconds.
1. Databook says Shred. Shred isn't the same as chewing! No mouth can shred, a mouth Chews/swallows!
2. I literally countered the water sharks with my first post before you even posted. You've yet to counter how i shit on the water sharks with 7 different ways of getting rid of them.
3. 10000+ Snakes are still>>>Weak water sharks! lmao
4. Lmao Kisame's clones blocked. But what happened when Neji was free? Exactly! Destroyed! And please show links of water clones making clones of other living beings please! And please dont use a Rinnegan Jutsu that needs a living sacrifice! lmao Then you compare shadow clones to water clones when they are literally two different jutsu's with different results! lmmfao I'm dying! Please use water clone feats only please!! That's like saying all clone juts's are as durable as wood clone since it is a "clone" jutsu! please please please just stop! I cant breathe! XD
5. And what does that post have to do with the clones plus curse mark being added again? You literally didnt prove anything! Then you keep stating he has Kimimaru's ability to sprout bones any where on his body. lmao Bro just stop! Feats of this BS or STFU! And a few i already showed manga facts of Sama absorbing non leaking chakra not at the same speed as leaking chakra. Please just stop. You still have yet to counter CM! GG
So no counter huh? Your premise of it "bouncing off hydra's body because it's water" just went out the door. Just because the jutsu themselves are different doesnt mean some properties of the suiton aren't the same.
And Hydra plus snakes/rashomon tank the jutsu and counter attack no diff since he would be a sitting duck not know what is about to happen. But you seem to think Kisame can read minds now. KMSL And you think all water jutsu work the same. Please just delete your account!
Suiton sharks were portrayed to be able to bite ordinary humans with their jaws (
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) hence why Kisame said "
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" Scale that up and it's pretty obvious a massive shark as big as Hydra should be at least capable of sinking its teeth into snake meat/flesh. That, and the databook states its fangs can shred the enemy into pieces.
What does that have to do with them not being fodder sharks??? Ofc they can bite humans, that doesn't mean they aren't weak and can eat humans. And again reread the manga and databook i broke down for you! When it is fired it's mouth is open with teeth in it, yet when Hindura entered it, it never once "chewed" or "bit" or "munched" even as Hindura was progressing! This is manga fact it does not! The way it works is; it is fired with mouth open, opp jutsu goes in its mouth, shark gets bigger thus having bigger mouth from growth etc etc. What grade are you in?
Too late for what? When did I disown my post? What's wrong with comparing Shark Mode Kisame to Byakogou Tsunade, when not only is he far more durable but his healing abilities are superior to Byakogou considering it healed a V2 Lariat with ease? (which created a gaping hole in Kisame's stomach, Byakogou users have never healed an injury of that level). Already addressed your head slice strategy, when Kusanagi is used in a slicing motion the only force behind it is the force of Orochimaru's neck muscles, not nearly enough force to decapitate a fused Kisame who
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so decapitation isnt an option. Kusanagis power lies in its piercing abilities, but Oro is never landing a Kusanagi head shot on Kisame when he noticed Bee's raiton vibrato pencil as it was right next to his head and was still able to dodge it completely. Kisames reactions when underwater and fused with Samehada are improved much more due to
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so he has no problem avoiding Kusanagi. A kusanagi wound dealt to any other part of his body is healed rather easily considering its DC is poor.
Did you... Just say his healing feats are better then Byakuyo Tsunade?..... Tsunade was literally in half!!!!! Yet you think a Whole in the chest that was weakened by first having to go through his sword is a better feat??? Sakura tanked the Truth seeking balls thanks to that ability. Even your Best friend Ice' will agree with me that this post is hella flawed of yours (and he hates he)! Kusanai to the brain easily ends him! With CM and Spore clones plus trees and snakes every where he stands no chance of escaping perfectly like you suggest!
The hypocrisy is real with this kid. Says I disown my points but when I utterly shat on his "Absorption=absorption" point he gave up on it and instead spouts the nonsense he just said above...which isn't even relevant to his premise about absorption canceling out other chakra absorption. I guess you concede this point. Lol
I never stated it was useless, its still absorption cancels absorption! You stated Wood dragon>Petra path when Wood dragon couldnt even absorb Rasenshuriken. lmao
-Hydra can't get a hold of Kisame.
-You should take a look at what you said in literally the last paragraph. You gave up on your point so you decided to spout irrelevant BS instead so you wouldn't lose face.
-Hydra eventually gets a hold of him, and when he does its GG. With clones, spore clones, summons etc etc helping it will eventually happen.
- In my last paragraph I added to the fight Trees in teh water and transformed my snakes, how was anything changed! You completely changed your entire arguemnt since first post! And each post goes against your last post stating "he will do this, but he will do this (that goes against what i just said.)"
Orochimaru's fangs aren't even capable of piercing Kisamehada's shark skin. Asuma's knife
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. Tenten's explosion
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. Bee's sword
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. A giant axe
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. Log out if you think Orochimaru's puny fangs can pierce fused Shark Mode Kisame who has Samehada's durability on top of his own. Kisame didn't survive Afternoon Tiger for no reason. He's really durable.
- Kisamahada's skin durability feats please!!
- Asuma's knife never attempted to pierce! Lmao yet again you don't know the meaning of pierce!
- That was Samaha with Scales and Wrapping, not Kisamaha's skin my child. Scales>Skin!
- That giant axe isn't meant to pierce! lmao Steady reaching for nothing!
- His fangs easily Penetrate his skin when Sharks chewed him up! You sound retarded as fuq with these imaginary Skin feats and not knowing what Pierce means.
Also again, like I've said 2 or 3 times now and you're seeming to ignore...Orochimaru getting his head close to Kisame is suicide since when he gets his head close to deliver the curse mark Kisame, a bone gets shoved up his mouth and brains him through the head. Or Kisame catches his head in his hands and rips his head off. His reactions easily permit him to do this.
Again show links of Bones popping up from any part of his body except his arms? Where are you getting this BS from! You are literally making shit up as you go! He is not Kimmimaru!
Oro's poison blood is invisible? You sound dumb as f*ck not even knowing how the jutsu of your own character work! It isn't visible only after it vaporizes with the air (
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) its liquid form is clearly visible and this is underwater so no blood-to-air contact is happening. Doesn't matter if Oro has a lot of poison, since Kisame has a SHITTTTTT TON of water to dilute it with so obviously the poison gets diluted to such a low level that it wont affect kisame and definitely not restrain him. Smh you're really reaching.
LMAO You are slow! Oru's Blood is visible, but the Poison caused by the vapor is not visible manga fact! He will be affected! And you make it seem as though Kisame will be every where in the dome at once! lmmfao He is not Flash! The posion can and will come right near him when he least expect it! And when it does it's instant GG! You're logic is "the blood will spread into the entire dome and dilute." lmao It will remain in the immidiate area and stay in that area. And Oru can literally Fight wit the Blood leaking at all times near him as he chases Kisame (You'll probably say; "kisame will run" but then will contradict your 15 other start over strategies! lmao). Oru has wayyyyy too many options to end this. Kisame is to one dimensional and has a simple aresenal that is easily countered by Oru literally every time! This isn't me telling Everything Z'Oru will or could do that's the sad part!
Came up, that's all me
Stay true, that's all me No help, that's all me
All me for real
Got links and friends helping you out with old material, yet that's "all you?" lmao Please delete your account!
Your post fails hard since snakes can't transform into something significantly bigger than themselves (hence Manda is not turning into Manda 2). Otherwise I could just claim that Kisame transforms into Manda 2 and overpowers all the other snakes. See what I did there? Other boss snakes using transformation techniques doesn't make them any less fodder than they already are nor does transforming into a shark let it swim and operate underwater just like a normal shark. It's still a weak ass snake and Kisame deals with it accordingly then sucks its chakra out. Uprooting trees doesn't do shit. Fodder snakes can't transform into literal water which is semitransparent like all suiton sharks are so differentiating between them is easy.
Who said Manda will match the OG size of Manda 2? reread kid! You don't know how Henge Jutsu works do you kid?
Transformation Technique (変化の術, Henge no Jutsu)
Ninjutsu, E-rank, Supplementary
Users: Uzumaki Naruto, Iruka, et al
Deceiving the enemy by changing ones appearance!!
Given all the missions ninja are assigned to -battle, intelligence gathering, diversions- this is a priceless ninjutsu. It is typically used to change into people other than oneself, but one also has the ability to change into animals, plants, and even inanimate objects like weapons. This gives this technique an abundance of uses.
[picture of Naruto's terrible transformation into the Sandaime Hokage]
←On the other hand, a "Transformation Technique" performed by an inexperienced person will have... obvious discrepancies. It will be impossible to deceive anyone with it.
[pictures of cancelling his transformation into Naruto]
↑→The transformation of a skillful shinobi will be exactly like the genuine article!! It will be impossible to tell the two apart.
They can transform into anything they choose my child, and with there already big stature they will be a big enough threat while transformed to cause problems (never stated they would grow to Manda 2 size). To think a Giant shark wouldn't know how to swim makes you look stupid. Hence why Naruto was able to transform into a smaller Wind mill even though he was clearly bigger. And even though the Kyubi is clearly bigger then bunta he was able to transform into what? The Kyuibi!
Uprooting trees floods the dome with Wood that not only slows Kisame down, but with the trees plus snakes everywhere it blocks any and every escape route. But not in the trees Zoru clones
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with out him even knowing since with Mayflower and merged with tree's you cannot sense them at all! Not only that, with the floating tree's this gives escape routes for Oru and clones to merge with and
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. And as seen with the kisame fight the tree's easily
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r! Trees every where slows him down and with every tree near him able to have a
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skull shot means he is easily killed in this fight!
Now that the trees are in the mix
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in with only Up being an Escape route! It would be the Zoru's at the bottom that will form a box/square with the first gate we first summoned in the beginning of the fight (remember?). But with Snakes and clones at the bottom of the box the gates created to encase and stop all escape routes; from the top Manda comes swimming down with Hydra as well coming from the bottom. And since Kisame cannot swim and use GSB at the same time he will only be able to use it at one or the other not both. And with the floating tree's plus snakes top and bottom left and right (360) and clones every where he is most certain to die!
I was going to add more to the slaughter but it seem's as though you ran out of material and cannot keep up, So i'll just stop here until you post again. If you want to debate seriously we can start with your next one (since i'm still warming up), and hopefully i can get back into this debate with you.
Debating with you is like arguing with a brick wall. I'm not posting again, I've thoroughly addressed all your strategies and counter them but you continue to stubbornly repeat the same defeated points. And this debate just keeps getting longer and longer. I don't have the time to respond and repeatedly counter the same stuff over and over again. This debate is ready to be judged, so let's find some judges. If you post again, I'm not even going to waste my time reading it (we never decided on a set amount of posts and you ignored me when I brought it up so we'll leave it at 3 posts each which is standard.)
Debating with someone that doesn't know anything about the manga outside his favs is horrid! Please read the entire manga and learn every character next time! You literally changed your strategies 7+ times and disregarded what you previously stated. You never had a foundation and still do not, your post contradict your last and your way of winning is poking eyes out. lol
As for judges, people who I will NOT accept as judges: kakashi owns all, Hyuuga Neji 18, blazekev90, Bronze, and neosmith500. Because they're biased as hell. Some UNBIASED judges that I would like to suggest are Xlad, Transcendance, Zi Yu, Kifflom, Haizaki, Forbidden Technique, TheAncientCenturion Sublime Green Beast, Owarij, -6 Paths-, Izanami and those are just naming a few. DraeGod ignored my PMs and my posts about deciding on judges so we still haven't gotten around to getting some.
Tac is a hellllll no! You two are best friends and he is one of the biggest Kisame wankers on the site! FT is a kisame fan and thinks he win period, besides that he would be kool to judge. Everyone else are your friends who you talk to every day besides a few (kiff is cool, Evani is cool). Basically
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or users friends with Ice' will be ok. Owarji wouldn't waste time as he is barely on the site to care. How about we pick ppl who are not you nor my friends let alone who you talk to every day. lmao
I've been reading these debates and to me it kind of seems like dreagod is just wasting most of his time insulting bac2 instead of actually posting arguments for orochimaru
So far I think the stupidest argument was where draegod said one of the things bac2 said wasn't possible or not supported by the manga but yet hydra using techniques is ������
Then where draegod said Kisame couldn't catch killer bee in the WD where 8 tails clearly in black and white informs him that Kisame is faster in water and can breath
Someone should have did some more digging before he said a few things that made himself look dumb
Aww look we have some of BACs2 Internet friends on his Tip. lmao Then we have BACS2 Cheerleaders liking there post because they were too afraid to speak up like these 3 noob users. lmao Super cute, I just wanna pinch them cheeks! XD But that was a creative pic Draphsin, not even gonna hate! lol
Won't be able to judge guys...Have my Final year exams like I previously said so I won't have time. Though I'd recommend Kifflom, Paratise...Owarij would have been really good though.
It was until Draegod turned this into a nice pissing contest. It's funny but like swirly said, he spent 89% of his posts talking shit rather than giving substantive reasoning.
IDk all of the current users are on your friends list or not involved in vs section. Hard to say all the unbiased ppl are not as active as i expect. Ice' has too many Alt's to tell who he is cool with as well.
Oh look another alt of a User I owned in the past trying to make friends on th einternet. LMAO Dude get a life, you look sad trying so hard. You're probably one of Ice' alt accounts.
I doubt that this debate will get judged any time soon if ever. Looks like I'll be perma banning myself before I can see the result of this debate on this account
Aww look we have some of BACs2 Internet friends on his Tip. lmao Then we have BACS2 Cheerleaders liking there post because they were too afraid to speak up like these 3 noob users. lmao Super cute, I just wanna pinch them cheeks! XD But that was a creative pic Draphsin, not even gonna hate! lol
IDk all of the current users are on your friends list or not involved in vs section. Hard to say all the unbiased ppl are not as active as i expect. Ice' has too many Alt's to tell who he is cool with as well.
nop, im not interested in things like this and my english is kinda bad... thats why i dont debate much... who won ?i dont know we will see soon if judges will show up also i think Zetsu Orochimaru(w/o ET)>Kisame
Man, Cyborg. What did you do to piss Draegod off? He weally hates u
Well if this is the end of this debate then beansandcornbread kinda won mid/low diff, actually.
It was until Draegod turned this into a nice pissing contest. It's funny but like swirly said, he spent 89% of his posts talking shit rather than giving substantive reasoning.
Who won? Draegod right? When are you going to judge?
Oh look another alt of a User I owned in the past trying to make friends on th einternet. LMAO Dude get a life, you look sad trying so hard. You're probably one of Ice' alt accounts.
Oh look another alt of a User I owned in the past trying to make friends on th einternet. LMAO Dude get a life, you look sad trying so hard. You're probably one of Ice' alt accounts.
I personally have nothing against him except he stalks me and negged me every chance he got. And other users stay telling me he brings my name up damn near every day for no reason. The dude literally hates me and even aided BAC2 even though BAC2 never asked any help. The list goes on, for what ever reason he stalks only me the dude literally campaigned a hate party for me. lol Some of us older users found it funny with the screen shots to prove his obsession and hate for me ever since I owned him in a debate back in the day (about 2 years ago i think). We sit back in laugh about how many users he brain washed. Just dont want him to do with anything involving me on this site the few times im here.
