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I knew his post was gonna drop faster than Alvida's weight from the very first line. Also, I retract freeing Ace from his cuffs from the previous post, since Mr. 3 helped with that and, indirectly, Bon Clay as well.
[Discussion] At what difficulty can Roger defeat an admiral?
- Thread starter Uzumaki Macho
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24 12 11 to troll
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Oh, I comprehended that post well, it only said roger was a pirate king because of his crew and I also said you are wrong. Roger started the whole Journey by using his charismatic and caring personality to recruit people to his crew,
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And I am pretty sure he recruited all his other members the same way as luffy has done. If left to their own accord Rayleigh would never have become this stronger. And the entire crew became strong because they wanted to help their captain and that is the power of a CAPTAIN. But when you even impress someone outside your crew that is the power of a KING.
It was entirely because of Roger alone that he got a crew a new ship and actually reached raftel because roger.
And the point that you seem to conviniently ignore is that I drew a parrallel of roger with luffy that the captain always takes care of the biggest bully in the playground. Which means Roger also fought the strongest himself throughout his journey to be the pirate king. All roger's crew did was take care of the other fodders, so while we can give them credit to have helped roger become the pirate king [Since it is clear as day that one man cannot fight a pirate crew like the Whitebeard's all by himself - he will only battle whitebeard or garp not Aokiji (his underling at that time)] it would be extremely ignorant of you to think that Roger only became the King with that crew. He would still have recruited other people and still become king.
That being said, a Pirate King still needs to defeat all his opponents and establish his dominance among all the other captains to be accepted as the king. So Naturally becoming a pirate King mean you have to be strong, strong enough to beat both garp (can be considered even above admiral level) and Whitebeard.
Coming back to Luffy's achievements on impel down and marineford? Breaking out of the most secure prison in the world all by himself in itself is a big achievement, and then bringing Ace right upto the rescue ship is also an achievement. And if you think that all these achievements are not due to luffy, think again.
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Highlight on what Mihawk thinks.
My Earlier post was actually pretty clear, but I guess I needed to be more elaborate in your case.
And If I need to dumb it down further, just understand that only one man is called Pirate King and the other members on the crew are simply members of his court with Rayleigh being the defence minister.
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Yeah ignoring all of that about Roger and being Pirate King. Ask yourself one question and you'll understand why: Would Roger have become Pirate King if he never recruited any crewmembers and no one had helped him on his voyage?
Man, you are so blind to what you're posting. You really just defended your claim that Luffy broke out of Impel Down, got to Marineford, and rescued Ace by himself with a page of Mihawk going ¨He's got the ability to turn people into allies." Allow me to do some further elaboration for you, because you didn't understand it the first time.
Luffy didn't do anything on his own in Impel Down and Marineford
If Luffy didn't have the Newkamas and Ivankov, Magellan's poison would have killed him.
If Luffy didn't have Crocodile, Akainu would have killed him and Jinbei.
If Luffy didn't have Law, he would have died due to his injuries.
If Luffy didn't have Bon Clay, he would have been stuck inside of Impel Down and the gates to Marineford would have remained closed
If Luffy didn't have Mr. 3, he wouldn't have been able to combat Magellan's venom demon.
If Luffy didn't have Jinbei, he would have been killed by Akainu
If Luffy didn't have Marco and Vista, Luffy would have been killed by Akainu
If Luffy didn't have the Whitebeard pirates, he would have been obliterated
If Luffy didn't have Inazuma, he wouldn't have made it to the platform or out of Impel Down
If Luffy didn't have Ivankov, Kizaru would have killed him
If Luffy didn't have Ivankov and Inazuma, Akainu would have killed him
And there's more. If Luffy's successes were due to the ability to turn people into allies who then went on to help him achieve these successses, how did he accomplish the success by himself? Drop Luffy into Impel Down and take away all of his allies. Drop him into Marineford and take away all of his allies. Still think he did it all by himself? So no, I highly doubt you can afford for your posts to get any more dumb.
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Man you are so dumb, like seriously?
You at least need 10 or 15 people as your crew if you even want to steer a damn ship. How do you expect Roger to walk on the ground and become Pirate King?
And to this I'd ask, would anyone else have accomplished what luffy has? (I am talking about same tier strength wise)
Law? Kidd?
As Mihawk/Oda has explained its a trait only Luffy has and therefore only Luffy was able to pull that off. So if you are even trying to contradict oda himself, then have a good day. I am done here.
Please name all the characters besides Luffy that can get those people to help them and do what Luffy did.
Then explain why they would help that person and how they would accomplish Luffy's strength feats.
Because I would love to hear about someone else besides Luffy that can win all those characters' respect and even won the respect of Whitebeard himself and the respect and love of Boa Hancock and win the respect and aid of Jinbe.
While you are at it explain how many characters can travel through a prison and war zone after having the hormone shots which shaved ten years each of the life span vastly weakening the person and putting them on death's door.
And survive a bout with Hawkeyed Mihawk and survive through multiple admirals attacking and a attack from Moira all in a row.
You see, what you fail to understand is that besides Roger and Luffy no one else could get these people to follow them the same way or pull off their physical feats, that is why Roger became King of the Pirates and Luffy will become King of the Pirates.
The post of someone who can't contribute to a argument himself and simply wishes to spite the other party in the debate rather than post anything constructive.
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24 12 11 to troll
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This is getting embarrassing now... poor guy
[video=youtube;oNvFPKujc5w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNvFPKujc5w[/video]
It's more constructive than anything you guys have said. Regardless of this, everyone's been a whiny little ***** about this so I just won't take partsaw2097 said:
Vandenre1ch
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I really can't fathom why people don't see Riker Slade's simple point. The title PK was a title SOCIETY gave to Roger because he was the first and only pirate captain to sail all the seas. Even today, the title PK doesn't depend on strength. All someone has to do is find OP.
Roger alone isn't invincible. If he was by himself, he would've been slaughtered long ago. Same goes for Luffy. You can have power but there is only so much you can do or accomplish by yourself. Luffy would've been killed in Enies Lobby and Thriller Bark without his crew.
Roger alone isn't invincible. If he was by himself, he would've been slaughtered long ago. Same goes for Luffy. You can have power but there is only so much you can do or accomplish by yourself. Luffy would've been killed in Enies Lobby and Thriller Bark without his crew.
24 12 11 to troll
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And Little Garden, Alabasta, Ring Long Land arc (vs Kuzan), Water 7, Impel Down, Marineford, Fishman Island, Punk Hazard and Dressrosa
don't forget those arcs
The whole crew would've been hunted down on numerous occasions if it wasn't for the revolutionary army
Vandenre1ch
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Exactly. Its so simple and obvious that it makes my head my hurts that people think otherwise....
24 12 11 to troll
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That's why I've stopped taking part
People also somehow don't understand that Oda would never make a character so overpowered because it makes the Manga boring and predictable
It amazes me people don't see that Luffy gets stronger with each triumph and if he were to match Roger then he'd have to overcome the huge gap that people believe is there without any enemies to overcome, once he reaches the top he doesn't go any further, his strength plateaus and he remains just above the Admirals
Mihawk disagrees:
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And before you go saying that yonkou=admirals. The yonkou are the reason the navy needed the shichibukai. An admiral isnt enough to stop one alone. Look at marco he put up a decent fight against one, but lost, however his captain should be more than a match. It took a lot more than one admiral even to stop WB. I don't think one is enough to stop a yonkou 1v1.
Roger isn't in the manga though so he can't make the manga boring. The manga will end with luffy above the admirals by just a bit. Nothing says he cant go further especially considering his presumed age by the time he will be PK. These arguments are out of the mangas context so you can't bring real world arguments like boringness into play. Obviously Oda would never write this in his manga because it is stale material and it is outside the scope of OP anyway, but that does not mean it isn't plausible for a character to be that strong. That argument amounts to "It would be boring to watch that fight, therefore it wont happen like that" that argument only works with fights that are likely to actually be written, which roger v admirals is not likely to be.
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The very worst part is that they keep on trying to counter my point that Pirate King isn't something you can accomplish completely by yourself by bringing up Luffy's innate charisma that allows him to make allies. Lemme restate that again: Their counterargument for Luffy needing allies to become Pirate King is that Luffy has the ability to naturally make allies.
They might as well be going ¨Aaron is such a nice a guy, people like him, so they helped him build that house, so Aaron obviously built the house by himself.¨
Not only that, but it fails on another level as well. I'm saying Pirate King isn't based on your individual strength alone. It's not something you can gain just by having tremendous ability or skill. Their counterargument is charisma, something that isn't an ability or skill, as Mihawk made clear, which goes along with what I was saying: Pirate King is about more than just being powerful; it's not a rank of power.
Obviously becoming Pirate King is gonna be much harder than becoming the World's Strongest Swordsman. Of all the pirates in the world, there are gonna be more pirates who want to be Pirate King than those who want to be World's Strongest Swordsman because only a fraction of pirates are swordsmen, and then a part of them will actually be swordsmen who want have that aim and drive. Compare the amount of people who want to be Pirate King to the number of people who have claimed to want to become WSS. Not to mention the World Government is actively trying to prevent a Pirate King from happening again, so you have their forces on your ass, but they don't care about someone becoming a new WSS.
There's also the fact that becoming WSS has a simple task: Becoming stronger and stronger until you can beat Mihawk. Becoming Pirate King is a bit more complicated, since you have to find One Piece, something that know one has a clue of the appearance of nor definite knowledge of its location. The closest they have to knowing where it is is their guessing Raftel, and even Raftel's location itself they have to guess about.
Shanks is a swordsman, Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman, the math is pretty simple. The WG have the Shichibukai because the Yonko have allies. They don't have seven Shichibukai and three Admirals to combat four individual Yonko, they have them and their Marine forces to combat the four Yonko and their allies, which number into the thousands. With just five Shichibukai and the Admirals at Marineford, the Yonko Whitebeard's side got a crushing defeat, only one of the Marines' major players suffered close to severe injuries and that was Akainu, and even those didn't stop him from taking on the strongest members of the Yonko's crew after the Yonko died.
So you admit that you have no real argument at this point and are simply spiting people with a different point of view?
You are upset just because you can't win the argument and are throwing a tantrum at this point.
There are better things to get upset over than teenage manga and these posts destroy the more mature debaters respect for you, nobody respects someone who gets upset over something so unimportant.
Also get a real life, its not worth throwing a tantrum on the internet over a bunch of drawings.
If it is that simple that why has no one done it yet, people have been searching for the One Piece since Roger died, even the Yonko who are very likely stronger then the Admirals haven't found it yet.
Even Chinjao established that you have to be able to defeat all the admirals and the Yonko to be worthy of being King of the Pirates.
And even Akainu (a total fanatic about justice to the point where he kills people for putting one toe out of line), openly said that he respected Roger, he openly said that nothing the World Government could throw at him could stop him.
It has been established many times that Roger was given that name because he was the strongest and greatest pirate of all, the One Piece was his treasure which according to the legend in the manga was everything the world has to offer, remember that he gathered it in the first place.
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24 12 11 to troll
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I'm saying it'll be boring if the strongest was as far ahead of everyone else. No threat, no drama, no character development. Just boring.
He's definitely in the Manga you moron...
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You have a point. But if he has no challenge to further overcome he will plateau as he has already achieved his goal
It is implausible, unless Luffy develops some kind of NaruSasu relationship with Kidd there's nothing to push anyone to such ridiculous levels of strength. There's a limit to your Haki, it gets capped... otherwise the oldest characters would be thousands of times stronger than they are, and age wouldn't force your strength into decline.
You've completely ignored the fact Luffy is pretty much a mirror image of Roger if he were to shave. They're parallels. Luffy vs an Admiral is a likely fight though, and we'll probably see more than one like that
If you're trying to coerce me into destroying you then it's not going to work
Yeah, I'm so angry right now, being insulted by someone I'll never meet... damn, makes me want to cry
One Piece appeals to a lot of adults too. Believe it or not my Dad, in his 50's reads it. My elder brother who used to own this account reads it, he's 25. There was never any respect in this debate, a debate is a conflict.
Student lyfe ftw m80
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If you actually had a head you would be able to differentiate quality debating from someone who made this kind of debate,
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And also I remember you said something about "not insulting" in your posts and shit, I am still awaiting a reply on that thread.
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24 12 11 to troll
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Yep. I have a reply:
Why the f*ck do you think making friends is relevant in anyway to Roger in a 1v1 vs an Admiral? Nobody responds to pointless posts
Still in denial of getting rekt
The link you provided was of Caliburn debating against an argument I never made, not exactly great debating
Vandenre1ch
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This is exactly why I(and others) stop replying to you after some time. We lose interest. In the thread from 2 months ago, you said I didn't have a cohesive understanding of my own points which is essentially no different than saying I don't know what I'm talking about or don't fully understand my own words.
When someone gives a counter arguments, they expect a good counter arguments in return. Not the same answer again and again and again with insults tossed in for good measure. A lot of the replies you give hardly correlate to the things the guy you are replying to said. You completely missed their point. Like in this topic, me, Riker Slade and F U JI T O R A O lost interest in this topic because you and others kept giving the same answers, missing our points, saying things that had nothing to do with what we've said and of course, the mountain of unnecessary insults which greatly lowers our ability to take you seriously.