[Discussion] At what difficulty can Roger defeat an admiral?
- Thread starter Uzumaki Macho
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Uzumaki Macho
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Still more trustworthy than your opinion on the matter though. Roger and Rayleigh are proportional to Luffy and Zoro so it's high diff.
Well the members commenting here and including myself have already gave evidence why that isn't the case. Use some common sense, a top tier (Roger) mid diffing another top tier (admirals) sounds logical to you? Btw, we've seen hype many times in One Piece and in all shonen titles. Like here (top panel):
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Right now Luffy can high diff Zoro at this current moment but at EoS, once they're all at their full potential it could be extreme diff IMO. And btw, just because Roger high diff's Rayleigh, doesn't mean you knock it back another diff. level if he's facing Kizaru.
A extreme difficulty battle exist only in battles where both side can win, like the Akainu-Kuzan one. If battles like this existed, Whitebeard wouldn't have been world wide known as the world strongest man. Being world strongest man means he reigns supreme over anyone without a single doubt of victory in any type of battle he would engage himself. That means the closest to him must push him to high-very high difficulty at the absolute most, but not to an extreme fight where the strongest is dubious and he got that title while old and sick, in other words, much weaker than Roger
IminLovewithMAryj
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To be fair, Reyleigh did seem to be quite familiar with Kizaru and seems to have an Elder - younger sort of relationship with him.
He even referred to him as Kizaru-kun. Being on opposite sides the only time they'd have to get to know each other is on the battlefield. So it's pretty safe to say he's engaged in combat with Kizaru in his younger days on numerous occasions. He probably does know full and well what he's capable of.
Uzumaki Macho
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Yeah, so? You're assuming that Kizaru was in his prime then. Rayleigh retired for a long time.
I'll admit it's not the best example but you get the idea. Hype gets thrown around all the time. Rayleigh shouldn't even know about Kuma's full ability and potential to make that statement, let alone Kizaru's.
Punk Hazard
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It's funny because on his own, without Rayleigh and the rest of his crew, Roger would have never have become Pirate King.
You seem to think that Roger earned the title of Pirate King based off of his individual strength. That's not true. Pirate King has nothing to do with the titleholder's individual strength. If this was the case, when Roger died, Whitebeard would have automatically became the Pirate King, and the World Government would have been constantly trying to execute him just as hard as they did Ace. And you can't even say ¨Oh, well, they wouldn't risk fighting Whitebeard to get rid of the Pirate King" because they were more than willing to fight Whitebeard to prevent a Pirate King when they executed Ace.
Roger became Pirate King because people started calling him that after his crew became the first and only crew to sail completely around the world. The reason the WG doesn't want a new Pirate King is because the influence of the first one created a new golden age of piracy; crime skyrocketed, not because they fear the Pirate King's strength. If so, they'd, once again, be relentlessly trying to kill Whitebeard rather than letting him sale since he and Roger had a strength difference that was paper thin.
Take Roger's crew away, and there would have never been a Pirate King, so all of this ¨Roger can do this and Rayleigh can't cuz he's not PK and Roger is¨ is bullshit.
Punk Hazard
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Roger and Whitebeard were stated to have almost killed each other many times. This means that their strength was about even, as neither of them had enough to finish the other off. That means, that when one of them won, they didn't have enough left to permanently end the other. This, along with the very fact that it happened many times without cease, shows that each of their fights were extreme diff. The same thing applies to Garp, meaning Garp and Whitebeard should have about even strength as well, which disproves this. Add in Sengoku who should also be around even with Garp by portrayal, and this becomes even less accurate.
IminLovewithMAryj
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And is that not a more than reasonable assumption? Reyleigh retired around the time Roger turned himself in which was exactly 22 years before the story's current events meaning Kizaru would be 36. I'd say he'd be more in his prime then than now. He has been a marine for 10 years at that point and it is confirmed that he had long since eaten the Pika Pika at that point. Why wouldn't he know what he capable of?
And really? Pica was ignorant as can be. Not to mention arrogant as hell due to his DF. Reyleigh is none of these things.
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While it is true that individual strength alone cant make you the pirate king, you need the strength of your whole crew but you would still need to be strong as **** to protect all of your crew being the captain. It was said oftenly on the manga how roger would hold off an entire army while his crew runs to safety, this alone proves that if a friend is on the line roger will and can hold off 3 admirals at once in extreme difficulty with one admiral maybe passing through barely alive with roger dead. If its only a one on one battle and a friend is on the line, lol i dont think an admiral would defeat him and push roger to high just mid at most maybe.
If you think roger and garp are equals you are wrong. Garp wouldnt have captured roger if he did not turn himself in without a fight. At most i think shiki is stronger than garp by a little bit and roger is stronger than shiki. Shiki even said to himself no one could defeat that man (referring to roger) when he got the news of roger being captured by one admiral alone (garp).
If you think roger and garp are equals you are wrong. Garp wouldnt have captured roger if he did not turn himself in without a fight. At most i think shiki is stronger than garp by a little bit and roger is stronger than shiki. Shiki even said to himself no one could defeat that man (referring to roger) when he got the news of roger being captured by one admiral alone (garp).
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Look at this, again nothing substantial in this post just the continuous admiral/akainu wank.The legendary category is the admiral category.WB was only able to injure one admiral during the entire war and nearly died in doing so. That admiral who he injured then went on to take on the WB commanders by himself.
We have some more new (relevant) points introduced. #gooddebating
Another good point.
Again quite the subtle find.
And look at this counter? nothing short of stupid. You pick up any thread and link it with some entirely outworldly point.
That Highlighted part is enough for me to disagree with the entire post.
We know very well that Luffy will be the pirate King eventually. And Luffy has always bee Fighting the strongest opponent in every damn arc and Luffy is the strongest person in the strawhat crew.
No one can become PIRATE KING unless they are not even a KING on their own ship. This mean Roger was the TOP DOG of his ship. And we are TALKING ABOUT A 1 VS 1 (SOLO) FIGHT BETWEEN ROGER AND AN ADMIRAL in case you forget.
That's what I am saying they pick up any stupid point and try to link it with some other point that does not even deserve discussion in this thread. #baddebating #admiralwankatitsbest
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I would estimate high diff. I feel like a Prime Whitebeard would have beaten an admiral at high diff so I will assume the same about Roger since we have nothing to really go off of. Whitebeard in Marineford was injured and sick but still put up a great fight and I believe his injury hindered him even more.
Uzumaki Macho
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Nah brah, they would just mention how Whitebeard got weaker even though it was supposedly only a tiny drop in strength since MF Whitebeard, who lost his CoO and CoC, can still push Prime Whitebeard to extreme diff, because that makes perfect sense.
Punk Hazard
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Dude, of course Roger had to be the top dog of his ship. He was called Pirate King instead of Rayleigh or Gabban because he was the leader of the ship. But without the rest of his crew, Roger would have never made it all the way around the world, and would have never have gotten One Piece, and therefore never have become Pirate King. That's undisputable. No one can make travel the entire One Piece world all on their own without a crew aiding them.
I know we are, but it was you who started bringing up "UH he's the PiraTE KING DER"
Oro Jackson solos all admirals, because hey it made roger the pirate king. #yourlogic
Roger had the power to attract and make allies around him just like luffy. Luffy did not have his crew for two whole arcs and still managed to do tones. So yes you are extremely wrong.
Roger on his own was the pirate king because with his other qualities he had the quality to attract friends, like Mihawk mentioned about luffy in the war of the best.
So yes HUR DUR!
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Punk Hazard
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That shows how poorly you've comprehended what I said, since I never said anything along the lines of "Becoming Pirate King means you can solo Admirals" or "Helping someone become Pirate King means you can solo Admirals." If you're gonna try again to be a smartass, don't emphasize the second syllable next time.
What did Luffy do without his crew? Are you referring to Marineford and Impel Down? Because, last I checked, Luffy horribly failed at Marineford. Ace ended up dead, he ended up an inch from death several times, and was unable to do anything during the war. The only thing Luffy accomplished at Marineford was freeing Ace from his cuffs(which doesn't matter because he couldn't save Ace anyways) and impressing those around him with Haoshoku. If it wasn't for Ivankov rejuvenating his energy, Luffy would have been KOd by Kizaru and died before the war was even halfway over. In Impel Down, Luffy's best individual effort landed him in a pool of poison and thrown into one of Impel Down's harshest levels. You know what Luffy's individual strength would have gotten him? Magellan would have been his last fight. Ever. The only reason Luffy made it out of Impel Down alive and even survived to regret his failures at Marineford is because of Ivankov, Crocodile, Jinbei, Bon Clay, Buggy, Mr. 3, the Whitebeard Pirates, their thousands of allies, and the other Impel Down inmates. So no, this does not help Luffy's individual strength argument whatsoever, you actually crippled it two times over by using an argument that has nothing to do with Roger in the first place, and it being an argument that doesn't even hold up.
Roger didn't become Pirate King on his own. You're basically saying "Roger was charismatic enough to convince people to help him become Pirate King, so he became Pirate King by himself."
