[Discussion] At what difficulty can Roger defeat an admiral?

[Vandenre1ch]

So like I said, you dont like admiral level because it implies non admirals can't be in it. And again you would rather place them in this "top tier" where everyone is equal. You do that because you think it makes your arguments of strength plausible. But the argument that admirals are top tier is unjustified. Only roger prime harp and prime wb have existed at the top. This is because he manga said so. Stop trying to turn top tier into fighters who can't win against roger or wb.

Wb was injured previously to fighting akainu. Your argument doesn't work. It's like as soon as you see wb vs akainu you quit reading. Scale for damage taken previously and wb would win extreme diff. Akainu fel in that hole because he was paralyzed. Akainu got his ass beat by a half dead wb. Akainu was the one who Had to fall in a hole to survive. One more gura punch would have done him in. He was even cursing wb because wb got the upper hand. Wb isn't the one who fell in a hole. Marine ford wb is the most misinterpreted because we got people like you saying stuff that isn't evidenced in the manga. Wb fought so many people before getting to akainu that if he fought him fresh he would win.

1-Replying to you is becoming pointless since you actually try to tell me how I think. I've already told what I think of the admiral level class and you say something along the lines of "That's not what you think. This is what you think. Why? Because I'm trying to support my claim and back you into a corner." I give my reasons and you toss them aside and bring up something different and claim that that's how I really think.

2-I never said top tiers were equal. Just on par with each other. No top tier is med diffing another top tier.

3-Where was it said that Akainu was paralyzed? I've never heard anyone say that before. WB only landed a hit because of a sneak attack and absolutely nothing suggest that Akainu would've been killed or that a 3rd punch would've done him in as he went on a rampage defeating pirate after pirate as if nothing happened. He showed no signs of being in pain(unless you count the blood) or being hindered because of injuries.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Also, there was I time when I believed in the yonko, PK and admiral level classes. I thought yonkous were clearly stronger than admirals and that Roger would med diff one. I believe that, but the power scaling was still confusing to me and the story seemed sloppy because of it. It wasn't until I got a better understanding of the power scaling and the OP story that my opinions changed in early 2014. Everything makes a lot more sense to me now.

 

[Anduril]

1-Replying to you is becoming pointless since you actually try to tell me how I think. I've already told what I think of the admiral level class and you say something along the lines of "That's not what you think. This is what you think. Why? Because I'm trying to support my claim and back you into a corner." I give my reasons and you toss them aside and bring up something different and claim that that's how I really think.

2-I never said top tiers were equal. Just on par with each other. No top tier is med diffing another top tier.

3-Where was it said that Akainu was paralyzed? I've never heard anyone say that before. WB only landed a hit because of a sneak attack and absolutely nothing suggest that Akainu would've been killed or that a 3rd punch would've done him in as he went on a rampage defeating pirate after pirate as if nothing happened. He showed no signs of being in pain(unless you count the blood) or being hindered because of injuries.

Replying to anyone who does not share your view is pointless to you. I know.

Also, there was I time when I believed in the yonko, PK and admiral level classes. I thought yonkous were clearly stronger than admirals and that Roger would med diff one. I believe that, but the power scaling was still confusing to me and the story seemed sloppy because of it. It wasn't until I got a better understanding of the power scaling and the OP story that my opinions changed in early 2014. Everything makes a lot more sense to me now.

Better understanding of power scaling and OP story? my hat. How much more smartass can you act?

So like I said, you dont like admiral level because it implies non admirals can't be in it. And again you would rather place them in this "top tier" where everyone is equal. You do that because you think it makes your arguments of strength plausible. But the argument that admirals are top tier is unjustified. Only roger prime harp and prime wb have existed at the top. This is because he manga said so. Stop trying to turn top tier into fighters who can't win against roger or wb.

Wb was injured previously to fighting akainu. Your argument doesn't work. It's like as soon as you see wb vs akainu you quit reading. Scale for damage taken previously and wb would win extreme diff. Akainu fel in that hole because he was paralyzed. Akainu got his ass beat by a half dead wb. Akainu was the one who Had to fall in a hole to survive. One more gura punch would have done him in. He was even cursing wb because wb got the upper hand. Wb isn't the one who fell in a hole. Marine ford wb is the most misinterpreted because we got people like you saying stuff that isn't evidenced in the manga. Wb fought so many people before getting to akainu that if he fought him fresh he would win.

I'd advice you to stop. You can show the court proof all you want but if the Judge has closed his eyes, its futile.

And this bunch is certainly a qualified admiral support staff
"Corasan, Olorin, Rikersalad, Theblackcloudwhitelighitningsparkfireknifelithosphereionosphereground"

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Replying to anyone who does not share your view is pointless to you. I know.



Better understanding of power scaling and OP story? my hat. How much more smartass can you act?



I'd advice you to stop. You can show the court proof all you want but if the Judge has closed his eyes, its futile.

And this bunch is certainly a qualified admiral support staff
"Corasan, Olorin, Rikersalad, Theblackcloudwhitelighitningsparkfireknifelithosphereionosphereground"

I knew you'd take it the wrong way. I was referring to me and me alone not that I expected you to realize that. Anyways I'm done here as this debate is going anywhere. I tried one last time to be neutral and come to a mutual understanding but that's not possible it seems. You are way too aggressive and care too much about "winning" debates by trying to degrade others.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Also, there was I time when I believed in the yonko, PK and admiral level classes. I thought yonkous were clearly stronger than admirals and that Roger would med diff one. I believe that, but the power scaling was still confusing to me and the story seemed sloppy because of it. It wasn't until I got a better understanding of the power scaling and the OP story that my opinions changed in early 2014. Everything makes a lot more sense to me now.

I have a question for you. At what diff can Luffy beat Sanji?

 

[Vandenre1ch]

I have a question for you. At what diff can Luffy beat Sanji?

Well now that Luffy showed G4, I say low difficulty. I see a Doflamingo vs Sanji type a deal. Sorry Sanji.....

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Well now that Luffy showed G4, I say low difficulty. I see a Doflamingo vs Sanji type a deal. Sorry Sanji.....

And will Sanji be on par with admirals at EOS?

 

[Vandenre1ch]

And will Sanji be on par with admirals at EOS?

Of course he will. At his current level, Sanji can still progress in strength at a steady pace until he hits the neutral cap where Doflamingo, Sabo and G4 Luffy is. In neutral cap, your strength progression will get slower and slower. Know how Coby has a HUGE leap in strength whilst Sanji's leap in strength over the TS wasn't as big?

Why I'm a getting uneasy? What are you plotting?

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Of course he will. At his current level, Sanji can still progress in strength at a steady pace until he hits the neutral cap where Doflamingo, Sabo and G4 Luffy is. In neutral cap, your strength progression will get slower and slower. Know how Coby has a HUGE leap in strength whilst Sanji's leap in strength over the TS wasn't as big?

Why I'm a getting uneasy? What are you plotting?

So shouldn't EOS Luffy be able to mid diff EOS Sanji since he as a slightly better growth rate?

 

[Vandenre1ch]

So shouldn't EOS Luffy be able to mid diff EOS Sanji since he as a slightly better growth rate?

Not quite. As you get stronger, your growth rate gets lower and lower. Lets say both Luffy and Sanji are in the neutral cap but Luffy is higher up in there. Sanji's growth rate will be faster than Luffy's but just barely. By the time they exit the neutral cap, Luffy will still ahead of Sanji by a good bit. EoS Luffy high diffs EoS Sanji imo.

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You were sitting there eating popcorn the whole time!? Where were you!?

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Not quite. As you get stronger, your growth rate gets lower and lower. Lets say both Luffy and Sanji are in the neutral cap but Luffy is higher up in there. Sanji's growth rate will be faster than Luffy's but just barely. By the time they exit the neutral cap, Luffy will still ahead of Sanji by a good bit. EoS Luffy high diffs EoS Sanji imo.



You were sitting there eating popcorn the whole time!? Where were you!?

Luffy has increased the gap between him and Sanji ever since they met, so I doubt that would be the case.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Not quite. As you get stronger, your growth rate gets lower and lower. Lets say both Luffy and Sanji are in the neutral cap but Luffy is higher up in there. Sanji's growth rate will be faster than Luffy's but just barely. By the time they exit the neutral cap, Luffy will still ahead of Sanji by a good bit. EoS Luffy high diffs EoS Sanji imo.



You were sitting there eating popcorn the whole time!? Where were you!?

I find their idiocy entertaining, just ignore them, they'll rage and think they've won

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Luffy has increased the gap between him and Sanji ever since they met, so I doubt that would be the case.

Lets put it this way. When they first meet, Luffy had 100 points and Sanji had 85. Currently, Luffy had 100 points and Sanji has 50. The gap between them has extended as both men has a lot of room for growth, but Luffy grows at a faster rate. They are green. Since Luffy is now "brown" his growth rate will become slower while Sanji still grows at a good rate as he is still green, shortening the gap.

Coby is the best example. He went from complete trash to a Master Chief Petty Officer in just a few months. That's a hue growth rate(especially when you realize Tashigi was the same rank in Loguetown and been in the marines longer than Coby). In 2 years however, Coby is only a Captain. His growth rate has slowed down a bit. Your progress will be quick when you first start but as you get stronger, your progression will get slower until it reaches a halt(your prime) and declines as you get older.

 

[Bogard]

Lets put it this way. When they first meet, Luffy had 100 points and Sanji had 85. Currently, Luffy had 100 points and Sanji has 50. The gap between them has extended as both men has a lot of room for growth, but Luffy grows at a faster rate. They are green. Since Luffy is now "brown" his growth rate will become slower while Sanji still grows at a good rate as he is still green, shortening the gap.

Luffy always fight the toughest enemy and there is no better way to improve than when you challenge adversity. He is 3years worth pirate at best and 19yo. No way he's even near his full potential yet

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

I find their idiocy entertaining, just ignore them, they'll rage and think they've won

We weren't even raging, you are the only one raging.

 

[ssjelf]

TN

1-Replying to you is becoming pointless since you actually try to tell me how I think. I've already told what I think of the admiral level class and you say something along the lines of "That's not what you think. This is what you think. Why? Because I'm trying to support my claim and back you into a corner." I give my reasons and you toss them aside and bring up something different and claim that that's how I really think.

2-I never said top tiers were equal. Just on par with each other. No top tier is med diffing another top tier.

3-Where was it said that Akainu was paralyzed? I've never heard anyone say that before. WB only landed a hit because of a sneak attack and absolutely nothing suggest that Akainu would've been killed or that a 3rd punch would've done him in as he went on a rampage defeating pirate after pirate as if nothing happened. He showed no signs of being in pain(unless you count the blood) or being hindered because of injuries.

The gap does exist. Your divine revelations does not make you right nor do I have any more reason to believe you. Manga Evidence Please. Btw par means equal to. This is why your arguments are confusing you keep contradicting yourself by saying on par and then saying they aren't equal.

Are you saying wb vs akainu goes to akainu? Because it sure sounds like it. If not what is your point? You do a terrible job a presenting a clear argument.

Uzumaki macho makes a good point. If Sanji can fight an admiral and win (he will be able to) then luffy should be able to do it easier regardless of progression rate because as you said luffy high diffs This means luffy high diffs admirals an luffy is a parallel to roger therefore the same applies to him.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

N

The gap does exist. Your divine revelations does not make you right nor do I have any more reason to believe you. Manga Evidence Please. Btw par means equal to. This is why your arguments are confusing you keep contradicting yourself by saying on par and then saying they aren't equal.

Are you saying wb vs akainu goes to akainu? Because it sure sounds like it. If not what is your point? You do a terrible job a presenting a clear argument.

Uzumaki macho makes a good point. If Sanji can fight an admiral and win (he will be able to) then luffy should be able to do it easier regardless of progression rate because as you said luffy high diffs This means luffy high diffs admirals an luffy is a parallel to roger therefore the same applies to him.

I never said I was right. Its called an opinion. Once again you are assuming things about me. You ask me for manga evidence for my opinions but how bout you give some evidence for yours? Again its called an opinion. Being equal to someone and being on par with someone is different. Being on par with someone is a different way of saying that they are on the same level. Being equal and being on the same level is different.

Once again, never said that. Never said Akainu would beat Old WB. Stop putting words in my mouth and thoughts n my head please. I was saying Akainu was being underestimated, was going to be killed and was on the same level with Old WB.

I gave my counter argument to Uzumaki Macho already and also, you are still jumping to conclusions and missing the point.

 

[ssjelf]

I never said I was right. Its called an opinion. Once again you are assuming things about me. You ask me for manga evidence for my opinions but how bout you give some evidence for yours? Again its called an opinion. Being equal to someone and being on par with someone is different. Being on par with someone is a different way of saying that they are on the same level. Being equal and being on the same level is different.

Once again, never said that. Never said Akainu would beat Old WB. Stop putting words in my mouth and thoughts n my head please. I was saying Akainu was being underestimated, was going to be killed and was on the same level with Old WB.

I gave my counter argument to Uzumaki Macho already and also, you are still jumping to conclusions and missing the point.

The manga evidence has been posted many times in this thread, feel free to scroll through. meriam webster defines par as :
1
a : the established value of the monetary unit of one country expressed in terms of the monetary unit of another country using the same metal as the standard of value
b : the face amount of an instrument of value (as a check or note): as (1) : the monetary value assigned to each share of stock in the charter of a corporation (2) : the principal of a bond
2
: common level : equality —usually used with on <judged the recording to be on a par with previous ones>
3
a : an amount taken as an average or norm
b : an accepted standard; specifically : a usual standard of physical condition or health
4
: the score standard for each hole of a golf course; also : a score equal to par

defnition 2 is of use here. common level also means equal. Aokiji is or at least was on the same level as akainu resulting in their fight. Garp roger and WB were on the same level. Admirals are not on the same level, they can fight and do damage but thats not the same level. I will also say that akinu vs WB was two fighters at a similar level, not the same though.

I asked a question, thats hardly putting words in your mouth. So stop saying I am, you keep harping on this point as if I can change what you posted. You choose to post what you do and I interpret it to the best of my ability because it is really hard to make points clear on here. I am not putting any words in your mouth let alone your head, I am just reading what you say.

What diff does old WB take akainu at then? and what about prime Wb?

You actually didn't counter point at all. You brought up progression rates which doesn't change your statement that EOS luffy high diffs EOS sanji. I agree with that. Based on another statment you made that WOS sanji is on par with admirals, then we can say luffy high diffs admirals.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

The manga evidence has been posted many times in this thread, feel free to scroll through. meriam webster defines par as :
1
a : the established value of the monetary unit of one country expressed in terms of the monetary unit of another country using the same metal as the standard of value
b : the face amount of an instrument of value (as a check or note): as (1) : the monetary value assigned to each share of stock in the charter of a corporation (2) : the principal of a bond
2
: common level : equality —usually used with on <judged the recording to be on a par with previous ones>
3
a : an amount taken as an average or norm
b : an accepted standard; specifically : a usual standard of physical condition or health
4
: the score standard for each hole of a golf course; also : a score equal to par

defnition 2 is of use here.

I asked a question, thats hardly putting words in your mouth. So stop saying I am, you keep harping on this point as if I can change what you posted. You choose to post what you do and I interpret it to the best of my ability because it is really hard to make points clear on here. I am not putting any words in your mouth let alone your head, I am just reading what you say.

What diff does old WB take akainu at then? and what about prime Wb?

You actually didn't counter point at all. You brought up progression rates which doesn't change your statement that EOS luffy high diffs EOS sanji. I agree with that. Based on another statment you made that WOS sanji is on par with admirals, then we can say luffy high diffs admirals.

Also meaning an equality in value or standing or A LEVEL of equality

an average, usual, or normal amount, degree, quality, condition, standard, or the like:
above par; to feel below par.

It has different meanings but is essentially the same thing. It depends on how you used the word and the context. I say top tiers are on a LEVEL of equality but that doesn't mean that Kizaru is Roger's complete equal to use an example. Once again, the top tiers are on par with each other in my opinion.

 

[Tobiramas]

Medium difficulty