Usually If it was a extreme high diff battle then they would be in the same tier. Like pretimeskip Akainu and Aokiji despite the fact that Akainu is slightly stronger than Aokiji.If someone gives a high diff battle to another person I would not call it beating the crap out of them.
Dude wtf are you talking about doffy is way faster then gear 4th.. and gear 3 had good amount of strength but he chose to just dodge it why does that make him weak can we please stop acting as if he's weak as ****Usually If it was a extreme high diff battle then they would be in the same tier. Like pretimeskip Akainu and Aokiji despite the fact that Akainu is slightly stronger than Aokiji.
My point is that I'm not concerned on the difficulty of the fight but by no means is it high diff from what I'm seeing so far (pre gear four luffy vs dogtooth), so he's still losing to Dogtooth in a straight one on one match.
Dogtooth was able to
(1)keep up with G2's speed (Dofy barely did, he only dodged once if memory serves me right)
(2) Overpower G3's power (Dofy could not so he dodges it and take advantage of g3's weakness)
(3) And match if not best luffy's haki in some occasion. That plus an awakened devil fruit ability on par with Doflamingo.
So all we have left is Gear 4 and how he handles that, but even Cracker was able to survive Gear4 longer than Dofy did.
Dofy is not faster than gear 4, not even yonkou commanders are faster than Gear 4. If Dofy was faster than Gear 4 then he would've never been hit by Luffy consecutively 5 times in a row. I'm not acting like he's weak asf, you're literally undermining Luffy's strength. Dofy cannot over power gear 3 blow for blow physically. Luffy attacked him twice with Gear 3 and he dodged it or used spider web to block it. You'd need to be a physical freak to overpower Gear 3 like Jozu like strength. Jinbei who is known to be the physically strongest warlord pretimskip (might be kuma idk) cannot take Gear 3 blow for blow like that, it's too big. Even Admiral Fujitori was sent flying back when he decided to block Gear 3 with his sword, and Admiral Fujitori is way superior than Luffy and would lose horribly to Fujitori in a fight. It's just a muscle kind of thing, and Doflamingo is strong but he's not physical bull like that.Dude wtf are you talking about doffy is way faster then gear 4th.. and gear 3 had good amount of strength but he chose to just dodge it why does that make him weak can we please stop acting as if he's weak as ****
I don't think that fight was 20 minutes, Luffy was too weakened to maintain it. And the only person that fought Luffy longer in Gear 4 with his stronger hits was Cracker not Dofy. If you count how many times Luffy hit Doflamingo in their fight in Gear 4 was only 6 times.Because he still is the hardesst fight luffy has had since the time skoo regardless of who's stronger the fact still stands that he's the only one to tank multiple gear 4th attacks for over 20 min straight and then get another g4 attack assult on top of it. And to top it off hes the only person to be bit with luffy strongest attack to date
This is wrong. Dogtooth is way stronger than Dofy, not even in the same level. I agree that Dofy is in the same bracket as Jozu, Vista, smoothie, Cracker and Ace which is warlord level. But People like Mihawk, Dogtooth, and Marco should not be compared to Doflaimngo. They're in their own league. I know you're a doflamingo fan but we need to be reasonable here.You guys as well as the rest of the base stop acting as if dog tooth is in a different bracket then doffy because he isn't. at best hes compared to Marco and still Marco is not that stronger then jozu vista and the rest of the commanders. Sure they are the top of the bracket (which is under admirals and yonko mihawk etc) but still same bracket netherless. (This goes for smoothies lame ass and cracker who was cool I hope he gets more screen time in future)
How come all commanders belongs to one level???
WB had 16 commanders. U think all of them are in same tier???
First of all, there is no warlord level. Its completely non existent and the fact that the actual warlords greatly fluctuates in strength proves its not a level. Its like saying Bobbin & Tamago are "yonko crew" level.Dofy is not faster than gear 4, not even yonkou commanders are faster than Gear 4. If Dofy was faster than Gear 4 then he would've never been hit by Luffy consecutively 5 times in a row. I'm not acting like he's weak asf, you're literally undermining Luffy's strength. Dofy cannot over power gear 3 blow for blow physically. Luffy attacked him twice with Gear 3 and he dodged it or used spider web to block it. You'd need to be a physical freak to overpower Gear 3 like Jozu like strength. Jinbei who is known to be the physically strongest warlord pretimskip (might be kuma idk) cannot take Gear 3 blow for blow like that, it's too big. Even Admiral Fujitori was sent flying back when he decided to block Gear 3 with his sword, and Admiral Fujitori is way superior than Luffy and would lose horribly to Fujitori in a fight. It's just a muscle kind of thing, and Doflamingo is strong but he's not physical bull like that.
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I don't think that fight was 20 minutes, Luffy was too weakened to maintain it. And the only person that fought Luffy longer in Gear 4 with his stronger hits was Cracker not Dofy. If you count how many times Luffy hit Doflamingo in their fight in Gear 4 was only 6 times.
This is wrong. Dogtooth is way stronger than Dofy, not even in the same level. I agree that Dofy is in the same bracket as Jozu, Vista, smoothie, Cracker and Ace which is warlord level. But People like Mihawk, Dogtooth, and Marco should not be compared to Doflaimngo. They're in their own league. I know you're a doflamingo fan but we need to be reasonable here.
Are you saying that Doffy could beat a hypothetical unlimited G4 Luffy?First of all, there is no warlord level. Its completely non existent and the fact that the actual warlords greatly fluctuates in strength proves its not a level. Its like saying Bobbin & Tamago are "yonko crew" level.
Katakuri and Marco aren't in a league of their own. Only the admirals & yonko aka top tiers can be said to be in a league of their own. Katakuri & Marco would have a very hard time against other commanders and Mingo. Mingo was stronger than G4 but lost cause he kept making bad calls, not knowing what G4 could do. Cracker outlasted G4 without getting a scratch.
Hell, Katakuri showed speeds around G2 level at best. G2 Luffy legitimately dodged Katakuri's attack but Kata used his foresight to see where Luffy was going and tagged him. Now Kata can hardly hit Base Luffy(who Mingo had a legit brawl with when both were hurt) with awakening now that Luffy knows how Kata's foresight works. All YCs had special qualities and weaknesses. Its all about who's stronger overall.
Though I agree that both are the strongest FORCES in the OPverse, I have heard multiple claims and hints from characters in the manga that edge yonko over the admirals. One example of this would be the position of Pirate King itself. Roger was said to be rivaled by a yonko (WB) during his reign, but never an admiral (Sengoku).Both parties are equal more or less, statements like this can't be any clearer., Both at the apex of One Piece. That's the only true objective measure. Past this we start diving into preferences and subjective bs.You must be registered for see imagesYou must be registered for see images
I dont understand (If you are coming from an Objective view) how you can say that the Yonko vary to much with their strength and weaknesses as if the Admirals do not.Let me have my shot at this subjective bs, If I absolutely had to choose one group over the other I'd probably choose the Admirals, albeit by a slight margin thanks to Kaidou. The Yonkou vary too much with their strengths and weaknesses, you have Big Mom running around mindlessly because she is hungry, imagine facing another top tier with that mental state (and where top tier battles take days shes bound to get cravings) she'd get taken advantage of. Admirals face more strict requirements, there is more parity between Admirals.
When did I say that? Is G4 like a level cap for people who are "YC level"? I mean, I've yet to see what's so great about G4 minus the hype factor people get to overrate it, hoping to see G4 have a real fight with someone. Mingo went toe-to-toe with G4 for minutes and every time he got hit was due to poor judgement. Mingo underestimated its attack power and got hit, underestimated its durability and got hit, overestimated his won attack power and got it. Cracker's real body could have a haki clash with G4 and kept it at bay without getting a scratch. Hell, BM blocked Kong Gun with her forearm without a scratch, bruise or even budged.Are you saying that Doffy could beat a hypothetical unlimited G4 Luffy?
1. The excitement for Gear 4th is the fact that it is powerful (in terms of increasing strength and speed) as seen when Luffy fought Doflomingo. Though I agree with you that Doflamingo's underestimation of Gear 4 was what contributed to his "L", the difference in strength and speed that luffy had while in Gear 4 compared to what he could do in his other gears was MASSIVE!! It put him on a different level of power.When did I say that? Is G4 like a level cap for people who are "YC level"? I mean, I've yet to see what's so great about G4 minus the hype factor people get to overrate it, hoping to see G4 have a real fight with someone. Mingo went toe-to-toe with G4 for minutes and every time he got hit was due to poor judgement. Mingo underestimated its attack power and got hit, underestimated its durability and got hit, overestimated his won attack power and got it. Cracker's real body could have a haki clash with G4 and kept it at bay without getting a scratch. Hell, BM blocked Kong Gun with her forearm without a scratch, bruise or even budged.
1. Luffy's inevitable fight with a yonko is one of the reasons he gets overrated. "The stronger they make a character seem, they more likely they are to see something epic in their minds." Luffy's clash with BM proves that Luffy isn't there yet and Luffy still can't stop a yonko's underlings without handicaps. Its like that Yonko>>Admirals, Zoro>all, G4>YCs faction. All they want is to see something cool and overrating a characters keeps their hype in check and increases expectations.1. The excitement for Gear 4th is the fact that it is powerful (in terms of increasing strength and speed) as seen when Luffy fought Doflomingo. Though I agree with you that Doflamingo's underestimation of Gear 4 was what contributed to his "L", the difference in strength and speed that luffy had while in Gear 4 compared to what he could do in his other gears was MASSIVE!! It put him on a different level of power.
2. I dont know if I would call what Doffy did against Gear 4 "going toe-to-toe". Doffy literally had no counter or solution to the strength, speed, and durability of Gear 4. It was only after Luffy was expired that Doflamingo had a chance again, and once Luffy entered the state the 2nd time Doflamingo used his Trump Card attack and defence backed also by his awakening and still fell short to Gear 4ths Power.
3. Cracker never attacked Gear 4 head on and Luffy everytime he made contact with the buscuit soilders in Gear 4 destroyed them or their shields. The one time Cracker used his real body to attack Luffy in Gear 4, Luffy complete stopped crakersYou must be registered for see links(which is suppose to by luffys weakness) and hit crackers main body with enough force to not only KO him but destroy all the buscuit soldiers behind cracker and project him all the way back to BM's castle (which is reasonably miles away).
4. I dont see how you can compare the strength and durability of Doffy and Cracker to that of a Yonko. BM is suppose to be unphased by a simple Kong Gun, she is a Yonko. The gap in Luffy and BM's (and other yonko) is suppose to still be huge or else the story would be coming to a close. You cant use BM's strength to UNDERPLAY gear 4th's strength, this entire arc was done in part to clearly illustrate how far luffy has to go to surpass or rival a yonko.
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Too bad there is so deal with it.First of all, there is no warlord level. Its completely non existent and the fact that the actual warlords greatly fluctuates in strength proves its not a level. Its like saying Bobbin & Tamago are "yonko crew" level.
Fanfic and only a dumbass would say that Dofy is stronger than Gear 4 luffy since Luffy was smacking him around the whole island.Katakuri and Marco aren't in a league of their own. Only the admirals & yonko aka top tiers can be said to be in a league of their own. Katakuri & Marco would have a very hard time against other commanders and Mingo. Mingo was stronger than G4 but lost cause he kept making bad calls, not knowing what G4 could do. Cracker outlasted G4 without getting a scratch.
Don't care what you're saying here because all you do is complain about how your feelings get hurt everytime I debunk all your theories you keep pushing. Stop quoting me, I don't care about anything you think. Only Oda.Hell, Katakuri showed speeds around G2 level at best. G2 Luffy legitimately dodged Katakuri's attack but Kata used his foresight to see where Luffy was going and tagged him. Now Kata can hardly hit Base Luffy(who Mingo had a legit brawl with when both were hurt) with awakening now that Luffy knows how Kata's foresight works. All YCs had special qualities and weaknesses. Its all about who's stronger overall.
Too bad there isn't unless you think Mihawk, Mingo, Jinbe, Hancock, Kuma, Croc, Weevil, Yami Teach, Law & Buggy are all the same level.Too bad there is so deal with it.
Never said Mingo was stronger so calm down with your headcannon. Its a fact that Mingo kept underestimating Luffy. Denying this means you don't know what underestimation is and should refrain from posting.Fanfic and only a dumbass would say that Dofy is stronger than Gear 4 luffy since Luffy was smacking him around the whole island.
Gear 4>>>>Doflamingo.
You said you have to care? You're the one with the reputation of being a keyboard warrior who thinks everything he says is fact. And of course, all too classic "I debunked everything you said!!" trope. Classic keyboard warrior 101.Don't care what you're saying here because all you do is complain about how your feelings get hurt everytime I debunk all your theories you keep pushing. Stop quoting me, I don't care about anything you think. Only Oda.
I agree that a characters projected strength can cause characters to be overhyped. We see this with Zoro, Luffy at times, Dragon, and Sabo. But your statements make it seem as though Luffy's G4 is nothing impressive. As if it does not grant him strength that would allow him to go toe-to-toe with yonko commanders (even if he loses). I guess the point im trying to make is that Luffy's progress to this new power is what excites people, and to discredit the gear as if it is nothing special and that he only wins because of handicaps is doing the exact opposite of what the people who overhype him are doing. It make you seem like you are underrating him.1. Luffy's inevitable fight with a yonko is one of the reasons he gets overrated. "The stronger they make a character seem, they more likely they are to see something epic in their minds." Luffy's clash with BM proves that Luffy isn't there yet and Luffy still can't stop a yonko's underlings without handicaps. Its like that Yonko>>Admirals, Zoro>all, G4>YCs faction. All they want is to see something cool and overrating a characters keeps their hype in check and increases expectations.
I dont know if you could use hanicaps for Luffy's battle with doflamingo. Both Luffy and Doflamingo had hadicaps that the other could take advantage of, and you seem biased when you only point out luffy's and not Doffy's. To another point, whatever handicap you are claiming luffy had does not take away from the fact that Gear 4 was superior to Doffy in terms of strength, speed, and durability.2. With Mingo & Cracer, Luffy had handicaps in his favor. For Mingo, its cause he kept making bad calls(like for KKG, Mingo saw it coming but thought God Thread could overpower it). For 20 minutes, Mingo stalemated G4 and pushed G4 to the defensive. For Cracker, he was nerfed while Luffy was buffed and for 11 hours, Luffy couldn't capitalize until Cracker lost patience and tried stabbing Tankman without haki. Cracker's CQC is underestimated.
Because [3. Cracker did clash with G4 head on. Cracker himself tried stabbing Luffy after Organ and there was an unseen haki clash in the woods. All you could see was the black sparks, indicating a clash and Cracker didn't have a scratch when we saw him again. Luffy also never stopped Pretzel Roll. Luffy bleed and it sent him flying through trees.
I'm simply G4 isn't the YC destroyer people try to make it out be. His further abilities is irrelevant when it comes to discussing his ability in the past. Luffy would've lost to Mingo & Cracker even with the handicaps. If Mingo decided to dodge KKG, G4 would've worn off and Luffy would die. Hell, if the gladatos & Viola didn't distract Mingo, Luffy never would've recovered from the first G4. Cracker would've won in the end if he was more patient.I agree that a characters projected strength can cause characters to be overhyped. We see this with Zoro, Luffy at times, Dragon, and Sabo. But your statements make it seem as though Luffy's G4 is nothing impressive. As if it does not grant him strength that would allow him to go toe-to-toe with yonko commanders (even if he loses). I guess the point im trying to make is that Luffy's progress to this new power is what excites people, and to discredit the gear as if it is nothing special and that he only wins because of handicaps is doing the exact opposite of what the people who overhype him are doing. It make you seem like you are underrating him.
You can use handicaps. Its mandatory if you want to have a chance of having decent discussions. Most people on this forum take things at face value to overrate characters. You having people sayign Fuji & Sabo are equal, Mingo>Fuji because he didn't try to stop him, Dying WB>Akainu because of a sneak attack etc..I dont know if you could use hanicaps for Luffy's battle with doflamingo. Both Luffy and Doflamingo had hadicaps that the other could take advantage of, and you seem biased when you only point out luffy's and not Doffy's. To another point, whatever handicap you are claiming luffy had does not take away from the fact that Gear 4 was superior to Doffy in terms of strength, speed, and durability.
One way you can look at this is as such: If Doffy provided luffy with those same handicaps while luffy was just using Gear 2 or Gear 3, even if luffy connected clean shots on Doffy, it would not have come close to the same amount of man-handling that Gear 4th accomplished.
As I already said, I agree with you that Doffy underestimated luffy greatly in G4, but that can not be used to say that is the only reason Luffy beat Doffy. Antagonist underestimating the protagonist is a staple formula in all on shonen mangas, but we do not accredit the protagonist victory to only be the luck of a handicap of underestimation.
It was G4. It occurred after Cracker lunged at Luffy after organ. Those sparks only happen with haki clashes as seen with Chinjao & Mingo.Because [You must be registered for see links] is off panel, I cant tell you whether or not that was a direct contact or if it was the presence of the 2 fighters. And to your last sentence, that was not G4 luffy.
Big Meme is a joke.After what we have seen in the manga so far with Big Mom, and from the devastation we saw Whitebeard create (while sick and dying) in Marineford, is it acceptable at this point to claim that the Yonko are stronger than Admirals 1v1. In all honesty, I think if Big Mom would have went to Marineford in a rage the damage woud have been far greater than Whitebeard, as her power seems more broken than anything we have seen in the series thus far.
If we equate the strength of Big Mom the strength of the other yonko (assuming they are healthy), how do you not conclude that they are stronger than the admirals. Especially knowing that at this point the Admirals havent demonstrated anything as impressive as Big Mom?
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Sorry first sentence meant gear 2nd not 4rh it prob spell checkedDofy is not faster than gear 4, not even yonkou commanders are faster than Gear 4. If Dofy was faster than Gear 4 then he would've never been hit by Luffy consecutively 5 times in a row. I'm not acting like he's weak asf, you're literally undermining Luffy's strength. Dofy cannot over power gear 3 blow for blow physically. Luffy attacked him twice with Gear 3 and he dodged it or used spider web to block it. You'd need to be a physical freak to overpower Gear 3 like Jozu like strength. Jinbei who is known to be the physically strongest warlord pretimskip (might be kuma idk) cannot take Gear 3 blow for blow like that, it's too big. Even Admiral Fujitori was sent flying back when he decided to block Gear 3 with his sword, and Admiral Fujitori is way superior than Luffy and would lose horribly to Fujitori in a fight. It's just a muscle kind of thing, and Doflamingo is strong but he's not physical bull like that.
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I don't think that fight was 20 minutes, Luffy was too weakened to maintain it. And the only person that fought Luffy longer in Gear 4 with his stronger hits was Cracker not Dofy. If you count how many times Luffy hit Doflamingo in their fight in Gear 4 was only 6 times.
This is wrong. Dogtooth is way stronger than Dofy, not even in the same level. I agree that Dofy is in the same bracket as Jozu, Vista, smoothie, Cracker and Ace which is warlord level. But People like Mihawk, Dogtooth, and Marco should not be compared to Doflaimngo. They're in their own league. I know you're a doflamingo fan but we need to be reasonable here.
I never said Buggy, Teach, and Mihawk were on the same level as those guys you dumbass.Too bad there isn't unless you think Mihawk, Mingo, Jinbe, Hancock, Kuma, Croc, Weevil, Yami Teach, Law & Buggy are all the same level.
No you made no effort at all, all you do is cry about how you get insulted after you finish insulting somebody who doesn't agree with your opinion. You're annoying and act like a child just because your voice wasn't heard by someone plausible who doesn't give a shit about what you think. Simple as thatTried being nice but the reply is expected from someone who thinks Sabo=Fujitora and resorts to degrading others 24/7 like some keyboard warrior....can you give ONE decent replay or counter argument without having to scream about how "intellectual" you are?
See how much of an annoying idiot you are? You think I can't pick up on your lies?Never said Mingo was stronger so calm down with your headcannon. Its a fact that Mingo kept underestimating Luffy. Denying this means you don't know what underestimation is and should refrain from posting.
You never debunked anything, I always trash your idiotic post and then you complain about your feelings getting hurt. I always beat you so you have no right of getting high and mighty over hear. I even get +rep from people everytime I debunk that dumb shit you keep saying. Not once have you every use the manga. It's always "i feel like this is right therefore it's right," that headcannon you keep forcing people to believe.You said you have to care? You're the one with the reputation of being a keyboard warrior who thinks everything he says is fact. And of course, all too classic "I debunked everything you said!!" trope. Classic keyboard warrior 101.
1. Deal with it Fujitori called the fight offSabo=Fujitora
Dying WB>Akainu
Prime WB>Akainu+Aokiji
G4>>>Mingo
Mihawk & Croc are the same level
Great facts you have here.
Oh okay. Well Doflamingo said that Gear 2 was faster but it was too weak in power for him.Sorry first sentence meant gear 2nd not 4rh it prob spell checked
Sabo=Fujitora
Great facts you have here.