hiruzen is not the strongest hokage... proof

[TrollingSage]

Nagato was a shinobi yet he was referred to as God.
Hiruzen was a shinobi yet he was referred to as God of Shinobi.
case and point.

I'm simply using the titles to counter other titles not to mention pointing out your lies.

And Hashirama was a shinobi and referred to as The best Shinobi
Point and case.
Btw am simply trying to make you say the error in using titles and mere hype to determine who the strongest kage is. They both have hypes and titles to cancel each other out. But based on feats only, I wouldnt put Hiruzen above even Minato.

 

[Disquiet]

Thought so. And you don't seem to understand that what Kabuto said directly compromises the validity of Irkua's words. Seriously. It's like (hypothetically speaking) Jiraiya calling Rasengan the strongest technique and then 200 chapters later it turns out Jiraiya was arrogant and a compulsive liar. This directly lowers the validity of his original statement. Kabuto said that most people doubted Hashirama was as strong as the stories claimed. Therefore (obviously) when people are making a decision regarding who they think the strongest Hokage is, their answer isn't going to be accurate, because they're not taking into account Hashirama's full strength. .

:|

 

[Unbiased]

Thought so. And you don't seem to understand that what Kabuto said directly compromises the validity of Irkua's words. Seriously. It's like (hypothetically speaking) Jiraiya calling Rasengan the strongest technique and then 200 chapters later it turns out Jiraiya was arrogant and a compulsive liar. This directly lowers the validity of his original statement. Kabuto said that most people doubted Hashirama was as strong as the stories claimed. Therefore (obviously) when people are making a decision regarding who they think the strongest Hokage is, their answer isn't going to be accurate, because they're not taking into account Hashirama's full strength.



You keep repeating this as if i've denied it. What is in question is whether Kabuto can use the Rinnegan as effectively as Nagato. Nagato has 30 years of experience. Kabuto has none. An expert with a stone is greater than a novice with a shuriken.



I haven't disagreed with a word of the manga. You just seem unable to comprehend what i've said or even what the manga has said in some cases.

1-"most people" and also we saw who was stronger in their fight.

2-Yes kabuto can as he can utilize the rinnegan just as well. That's part of being using edo tensei. Now if Kabuto was on his own no edo tensei then the obvious answer is no. But since he is using edo tensei yes. That's just part of the jutsus specifications.

 

[KingHashirama]

No, I didn't say the Sarutobi clan knew the Senju. Although, I don't know why they wouldn't since Hiruzen's father was around during Hashirama and Tobirama's time. But the Senju, being the primary clan that established and became Konohagakure, presumably had all the jutsu that Hiruzen had. And I'm sure Hiruzen had sealing jutsu, although no known sealing jutsu other than Shiki Fujin stops Edo Tensei. At the most, the Edos are only detained.

Hiruzen has no known counters for it, no. But at the same time, he has about 995 jutsu. ANd Onoki had a counter for it, it was Flashback No Jutsu. outof

Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of Hiruzen, anyway?

I opinion of Hiruzen is the 3rd strongest Hokage or second. He is a hokage who has nowhere the hype or the feats of the other 4. Tsunade has even more in her own respect. (Medical ninja wise )

.

Nagato was a shinobi yet he was referred to as God.
Hiruzen was a shinobi yet he was referred to as God of Shinobi.
case and point.

Both were humans.. One was reffered to as ALMIGHTY GOD.. other just "god of shinobi" and only in his "prime". ;l.

 

[Unbiased]

And Hashirama was a shinobi and referred to as The best Shinobi
Point and case.
Btw am simply trying to make you say the error in using titles and mere hype to determine who the strongest kage is. They both have hypes and titles to cancel each other out. But based on feats only, I wouldnt put Hiruzen above even Minato.

Hiruzen was referred to as God of Shinobi.
Hashirama was referred to as Best Shinobi.

God has no equal in regards to religion which is where the word originates from.

The irony is that even though that title was past tense he still beat 3 Kage level shinobi in a 3v1.

 

[Disquiet]

Many =/= Most.

 

[OnPoint]

:|

Do you have something to say?

1-"most people" and also we saw who was stronger in their fight.

2-Yes kabuto can as he can utilize the rinnegan just as well. That's part of being using edo tensei. Now if Kabuto was on his own no edo tensei then the obvious answer is no. But since he is using edo tensei yes. That's just part of the jutsu.

1. Most people as in, you know, the majority. Including, you know, the current Gokage.
2. Believe that if you want, you'll never catch me agreeing to a statement like that. That Kabuto magically masters the Rinnegan to Nagato's level. Merely being able to use a jutsu doesn't mean you can use it as efficiently as someone else in battle. But I guess, for you, Genma and co can use Hiraishin in battle as well as Minato.

 

[Disquiet]

Do you have something to say?



1. Most people as in, you know, the majority. Including, you know, the current Gokage.
2. Believe that if you want, you'll never catch me agreeing to a statement like that. That Kabuto magically masters the Rinnegan to Nagato's level. Merely being able to use a jutsu doesn't mean you can use it as efficiently as someone else in battle. But I guess, for you, Genma and co can use Hiraishin in battle as well as Minato.

My post on the previous page:

Once again, "many" is not "most". In no way can it be concluded that the majority of people didn't believe his powers, in fact, the majority thought it was nothing special...at least compared to Hiruzen.

 

[Unbiased]

Do you have something to say?



1. Most people as in, you know, the majority. Including, you know, the current Gokage.
2. Believe that if you want, you'll never catch me agreeing to a statement like that. That Kabuto magically masters the Rinnegan to Nagato's level. Merely being able to use a jutsu doesn't mean you can use it as efficiently as someone else in battle. But I guess, for you, Genma and co can use Hiraishin in battle as well as Minato.

1-People in that time period called him the strongest shinobi. Madara had no idea what the people were calling him after he got beaten because he has been chilling in a cave cultivating a Hashirama clone and Zetsu's.

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2-That's fine you don't have to agree with it, you can disagree with the manga all you want.

So point being, people in his time period knew him as the strongest shinobi and even Obito stated he was the strongest shinobi of his time period. However after his period and Tobirama's was over Hiruzen was claimed to be the God of Shinobi. If Obito knew of his powers then people knew he was the strongest shinobi of his time period. He wasn't trained by Madara due to him dying when obito got back. So point being if Obito knew most people knew as he was only a chuunin and 13 years old.

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[Disquiet]

1-People in that time period called him the strongest shinobi. Madara had no idea what the people were calling him after he got beaten because he has been chilling in a cave cultivating a Hashirama clone and Zetsu's.

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2-That's fine you don't have to agree with it, you can disagree with the manga all you want.

Oh gawd, he said "many", not most. -__-

 

[binderr]

nah we sa how worthy he was when the kuuybi attacked the village, what did he do? summoned Enma to forcefully move him a couple meters. to what end? Minato had to take care of things.

hashi would have been able to bind the kyybu with wood dragon, Tobirama would have..I dont know summon his brother to do something?

anyway, he certainly is not the strongest hokage. He was probably the strongest of the kages during his era, but thats all.

and Im not downplaying him, i think prime hiruzen is top 15

 

[TrollingSage]

Hiruzen was referred to as God of Shinobi.
Hashirama was referred to as Best Shinobi.

God has no equal in regards to religion which is where the word originates from.

The irony is that even though that title was past tense he still beat 3 Kage level shinobi in a 3v1.

Some religions have many gods, some stronger than others. And oh Hiruzen killed himself to defeat them, after they've toyed around with him. They could have killed him a lot of times if they wanted to. And correction, he beat one kage level shinobi. Counting Hashirama and Tobirama as individuals is like counting each of Sasori's puppets as individuals.

 

[Owarij]

You telling me.. He was training Hiruzen while settling up world peace? really? lmao. I find that hilarious. And also, Hiruzen was under Tobirama's team.. .

Hiruzen was on that team only for the war.. him , danzo, and like what? 4 other people? it was not a normal 3 man squad.... We do know however that Hiruzen had an extremely close relationship with Hashi and tobi... and he called them both his sensei's.....hiruzen is also very much aware of Hashi's jutsu and how powerful it was..

 

[OnPoint]

My post on the previous page:

"Many people doubted..." - this is clearly talking about a large number of people. If the author wanted you to think it was a small minority, then he would have had Kabuto use terms such as 'not many', 'small amount' and 'minority'. 'Most', 'Many' and 'Majority' signifies a large group of people. The word 'many' when used with a plural verb (such as doubted, which means 'to doubt'):

n. (used with a pl. verb)
1. A large indefinite number: A good many of the workers had the flu.
2. The majority of the people; the masses: "The many fail, the one succeeds"

If even the current Gokage are clueless, you expect most of the average citizens to possess this knowledge? Alright then.

 

[Unbiased]

Some religions have many gods, some stronger than others. And oh Hiruzen killed himself to defeat them, after they've toyed around with him. They could have killed him a lot of times if they wanted to. And correction, he beat one kage level shinobi. Counting Hashirama and Tobirama as individuals is like counting each of Sasori's puppets as individuals.

1-That's fine his nickname is still superior to anyone else's to date.

2-Now your just trying to argue hypothetical situations. A commit could of crashed into orochimaru's head and killed him. Superman could of shot lasers and killed them both. (see I can make up hypothetical situations too)

3-According to the manga they are counted as kage level shinobi in control by another kage level shinobi. So 3 Kage level shinobi.

 

[Disquiet]

"Many people doubted..." - this is clearly talking about a large number of people. If the author wanted you to think it was a small minority, then he would have had Kabuto use terms such as 'not many', 'small amount' and 'minority'. 'Most', 'Many' and 'Majority' signifies a large group of people. The word 'many' when used with a plural verb (such as doubted, which means 'to doubt'):

n. (used with a pl. verb)
1. A large indefinite number: A good many of the workers had the flu.
2. The majority of the people; the masses: "The many fail, the one succeeds"

If the current Gokage are clueless, you expect most of the average citizens to possess this knowledge? Alright then.

Lol that depends on the context. Exactly, the author wants to show that it's a large number of people, but it doesn't mean it's the majority either. Like is said, it can't be concluded that he referring to the majority from this statement alone.


You try to present it as fact, which is simply not true, it shows that others didn't think much of it, those "others" could very well be majority. Since we do not know, that whole line is thus invalid.


Sadly, I have to go.

 

[OnPoint]

1-People in that time period called him the strongest shinobi. Madara had no idea what the people were calling him after he got beaten because he has been chilling in a cave cultivating a Hashirama clone and Zetsu's.

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Interesting, you chose to neglect Kabuto's words. You know, the guy who's been alive recently.

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Why is that?

2-That's fine you don't have to agree with it, you can disagree with the manga all you want.

Post the page which stated Kabuto had full mastery over the Rinnegan. Remembering that I can post a page showing him taking time out to actually think about what techniques Nagato could use.

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Sounds like a guy who knows the Rinnegan like the back of his hand, right? Guess i'm the one disagreeing with the manga, right?

So point being, people in his time period knew him as the strongest shinobi and even Obito stated he was the strongest shinobi of his time period. However after his period and Tobirama's was over Hiruzen was claimed to be the God of Shinobi. If Obito knew of his powers then people knew he was the strongest shinobi of his time period. He wasn't trained by Madara due to him dying when obito got back. So point being if Obito knew most people knew as he was only a chuunin and 13 years old.

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Point being your showing more of Hashirama's hype (coming from multiple sources).

 

[TrollingSage]

1-That's fine his nickname is still superior to anyone else's to date.

2-Now your just trying to argue hypothetical situations. A commit could of crashed into orochimaru's head and killed him. Superman could of shot lasers and killed them both. (see I can make up hypothetical situations too)

3-According to the manga they are counted as kage level shinobi in control by another kage level shinobi. So 3 Kage level shinobi.

Wrong Nagato and the sage have the same nickname.

 

[OnPoint]

Lol that depends on the context. Exactly, the author wants to show that it's a large number of people, but it doesn't mean it's the majority either. Like is said, it can't be concluded that he referring to the majority from this statement alone.


You try to present it as fact, which is simply not true, it shows that others didn't think much of it, those "others" could very well be majority. Since we do not know, that whole line is thus invalid.


Sadly, I have to go.

I gave you the actual full english definition of the word 'many' when used with a plural verb since you were confused. There is no other meaning for the word 'many' in this context, it's as simple as that. It has been used to signify the majority of people, and i've even shown that the leaders of the five villages were completely clueless when it came to what Shodai fought (Perfect Susano'o), his abilities (the level of his Iryō Ninjutsu) - now, you seem to imply that the people of the village would be more knowledgeable than the higher ups. That the 'majority' of people would know more about Hashirama than his own granddaughter, Tsunade, the 5th Hokage.

 

[Unbiased]

Interesting, you chose to neglect Kabuto's words. You know, the guy who's been alive recently.

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Why is that?



Post the page which stated Kabuto had full mastery over the Rinnegan. Remembering that I can post a page showing him taking time out to actually think about what techniques Nagato could use.

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Sounds like a guy who knows the Rinnegan like the back of his hand, right? Guess i'm the one disagreeing with the manga, right?



Point being your showing more of Hashirama's hype (coming from multiple sources).

1-I'm not neglecting Kabuto's words. Many don't believe in his power not "most" as you stated. Furthermore even Obito knew he was the strongest of his generation.

2- Kabuto has shown that with Nagato with open emotions or with him with closed emotions he could utilize every technique from the rinnegan. Even Chibaku Tensei. Therefore this statement holds up quite well.

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Wrong Nagato and the sage have the same nickname.

Nagato is a shinobi who was called a God
Hiruzen is a Shinobi who was called God of Shinobi. Please learn to logic.