hiruzen is not the strongest hokage... proof

[TrollingSage]

[/B]

1- I do want a manga page that says he would of.

2- I can't it doesn't exist whether or not he is under edo tensei or real. However I can show you a manga page showing you beating the snot out of hiruzen with Tobirama and his clones get him.

3-No because that stated that Kabuto didn't get art and didn't know deidara too well. It didn't state that he didn't know his techniques.

Exactly. That's what we've been saying. He knew Deidara's techs but let him fight on his own because he couldnt use Deidara's techs as well as Deidara himself could. Thats why he didnt completely bind Deidara to his will . At this point I think you're just too stubborn to accept this fact because I don't believe for a second you're this thick.

 

[blazekev90]

This would be about the 5th time we've gone through this and you still don't seem to understand. For the third time, you are suggesting Genma and co can use Hiraishin to the same effectiveness as Minato in battle. That Konohamaru would immediately be on Hashirama's level in a battle of Wood Release if you gave him Mokuton but no time to master it. And of course, no response to the page which shows Kabuto taking time out to think about what jutsu the Rinnegan was capable of. Like a true pro. Like Madara taking time out in battle and asking 'which path can I use to absorb Ninjutsu?'

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Oh that's right, Kabuto gave himself a pat on the back for realising that the Rinnegan gives rise to Chibaku Tensei. Like he's had it for 30+ years.

this scan should have ended the discussion, it's obvious that one has to be fully informed of his summoning s abilities to fully utilize them, nothing else needs to be argued regarding this. The scan speaks for itself.

Also, instead of talking about whether Edo was perfected, how about addressing the reason in which Edo was used in to first place. Orochimaru wasn't using them to slaughter him instantly, this was all about playing around and mentally mind ****ing the 3rd hokage, nothing more noting less.

The reason the Edo used nothing but mostly taijutsu jutsu was to beat and embarrass the 3rd and at some point he was broken! Orochimaru knew this would work, but underestimation the 3rd will. Ya'll act like ya'll don't know Orochimaru's character, when has he ever just went for a kill?!?!?

If Orochimaru really wanted to just KILL the third, w/o all the extra the games he would have done so rather early into the fight. Emma was the 3rd's best hope, but even he couldn't compare to all of what Orochimaru could have thrown at his during that time.

The 3rd was a respectable Hokage, but for not the strongest (the most versatile though) and would have lost that fight every time. This mentioning of age and how it "COULD'VE" changed the outcome was trying to keep his hype relevant, but is snakes and everything else was summoned too, shyt was have been a dub.

 

[Unbiased]

Exactly. That's what we've been saying. He knew Deidara's techs but let him fight on his own because he couldnt use Deidara's techs as well as Deidara himself could. Thats why he didnt completely bind Deidara to his will . At this point I think you're just too stubborn to accept this fact because I don't believe for a second you're this thick.

1-I'm waiting for the manga page that states Hashirama would of used Flower World after B.O.D

2-He never said he couldn't use it as well.

So where's my manga page showing Hashirama would of used B.O.D

 

[Unbiased]

this scan should have ended the discussion, it's obvious that one has to be fully informed of his summoning s abilities to fully utilize them, nothing else needs to be argued regarding this. The scan speaks for itself.

Also, instead of talking about whether Edo was perfected, how about addressing the reason in which Edo was used in to first place. Orochimaru wasn't using them to slaughter him instantly, this was all about playing around and mentally mind ****ing the 3rd hokage, nothing more noting less.

The reason the Edo used nothing but mostly taijutsu jutsu was to beat and embarrass the 3rd and at some point he was broken! Orochimaru knew this would work, but underestimation the 3rd will. Ya'll act like ya'll don't know Orochimaru's character, when has he ever just went for a kill?!?!?

If Orochimaru really wanted to just KILL the third, w/o all the extra the games he would have done so rather early into the fight. Emma was the 3rd's best hope, but even he couldn't compare to all of what Orochimaru could have thrown at his during that time.

The 3rd was a respectable Hokage, but for not the strongest (the most versatile though) and would have lost that fight every time. This mentioning of age and how it "COULD'VE" changed the outcome was trying to keep his hype relevant, but is snakes and everything else was summoned too, shyt was have been a dub.

1-Actually suppressing their emotions leads to a lesser mind *u*k as we saw with the reasoning why Kabuto left some with emotions intact. EX-Asuma vs his team

2-Water barrier, Water dragon, Nativity of the tree's, B.O.D + they didn't even fight mostly with taijutsu. They're more scans of them using ninjutsu then taijutsu.

3-He went for the kill against naruto as a kid

4-It stated they were equally matched

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5-Emna countered wood release and the sword of Kusanagi

 

[TrollingSage]

1-I'm waiting for the manga page that states Hashirama would of used Flower World after B.O.D

2-He never said he couldn't use it as well.

So where's my manga page showing Hashirama would of used B.O.D

There isnt one. Just like there isnt a manga page saying Hashirama wouldnt have either. The point of that illustration was to prove that a shinobi's personality can determine the outcome of a fight. Orochimaru chose to stand around and wait for Hiruzen because of his fascination with Hiruzen's new jutsu and his arrogance and over confidence. So maybe Hashirama would have done the same or maybe he wouldnt. My point is a shinobi's personality is part of his strength, and Hashirama and Tobi didnt have theirs. You know this, you're just being too stubborn to admit. Ciao

 

[Unbiased]

There isnt one. Just like there isnt a manga page saying Hashirama wouldnt have either. The point of that illustration was to prove that a shinobi's personality can determine the outcome of a fight. Orochimaru chose to stand around and wait for Hiruzen because of his fascination with Hiruzen's new jutsu and his arrogance and over confidence. So maybe Hashirama would have done the same or maybe he wouldnt. My point is a shinobi's personality is part of his strength, and Hashirama and Tobi didnt have theirs. You know this, you're just being too stubborn to admit. Ciao

1-And that's why he had Hashirama use B.O.D and him and Tobirama beat the snot out of him in the genjutsu. Because that's what people do when they stand around. They use genjutsu and taijutsu. /sarcasm

2-Nope as 3rd Raikage, Nagato, Zabuza, Haku ect both had personalities and no personalities yet show cased no difference in previous skills. Please for the love of all that is good stop making things up

 

[VangBro95]

Search Bar.

 

[blazekev90]

1-Actually suppressing their emotions leads to a lesser mind *u*k as we saw with the reasoning why Kabuto left some with emotions intact.

2-Water barrier, Water dragon, Nativity of the tree's, B.O.D + they didn't even fight mostly with taijutsu. They're more scans of them using ninjutsu then taijutsu.

3-He went for the kill against naruto as a kid

4-It stated they were equally matched

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5-Emna countered wood release and the sword of Kusanagi

*Sigh* i dont know I even entertain this, smh

Orochimaru had to have complete control or else they would have break free, obviously! The fact the 3rd had to fight his former teachers in such conditions (worn and dead, as he commented) and his favorite student was enough to break him, which it DID for a moments time.

This was suppose to be enough to completely break him, which is why was *chuckling* and taunting him as he was. I dont know how people don't understand this.

I said they used taijtusu MAJORITY of the fight, they used very simple justu (simple compared to what this possess), shyt they shoudlnt have been using it AT ALL. But Orochimaru was to tag-team dude (pause)

-_- he didnt give a damn about Naruto, he was motive at that time was to slaughter, against the 3rd his motives were different, but in the end wanted him dead, but begging for mercy.

In that fight they were evenly match, Orochimaru didn't do anything except stand there and give a small combo. What else was there too compare. The beginning of the fight they just countered each others techniques lmao

Emma counter, yet failed to pull/prevent the sword from stabbing the 3rd in his back -_- he would have failed badly if Orochimaru's team would have went all out. Manda probably would have owned lol

 

[Form]

Im going by the title. Strongest (physically) hokage would be Tsunade. I read the entire thread. So far hiruzen is winning. Cmon hashi fanboys step it up!

 

[Unbiased]

*Sigh* i dont know I even entertain this, smh

Orochimaru had to have complete control or else they would have break free, obviously! The fact the 3rd had to fight his former teachers in such conditions (worn and dead, as he commented) and his favorite student was enough to break him, which it DID for a moments time.

This was suppose to be enough to completely break him, which is why was *chuckling* and taunting him as he was. I dont know how people don't understand this.

I said they used taijtusu MAJORITY of the fight, they used very simple justu (simple compared to what this possess), shyt they shoudlnt have been using it AT ALL. But Orochimaru was to tag-team dude (pause)

-_- he didnt give a damn about Naruto, he was motive at that time was to slaughter, against the 3rd his motives were different, but in the end wanted him dead, but begging for mercy.

In that fight they were evenly match, Orochimaru didn't do anything except stand there and give a small combo. What else was there too compare. The beginning of the fight they just countered each others techniques lmao

Emma counter, yet failed to pull/prevent the sword from stabbing the 3rd in his back -_- he would have failed badly if Orochimaru's team would have went all out. Manda probably would have owned lol

1- I agree.

2-They didn't use it majority of the fight. I can count how many panels they used taijutsu in less them a minute its literally not that much. I counted exactly 6 panels. Literally only 6 panels of the hokage's using taijutsu alone.

3- Looks like Orochimaru had to kill him.

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4-Along with fighting with the sword of kusanagi, summoning Tobirama and Hashirama, Controlling them, and impaling Hiruzen.

5- He still countered wood release and the sword of kusanagi in regards to sword play.

 

[KingHashirama]

Im going by the title. Strongest (physically) hokage would be Tsunade. I read the entire thread. So far hiruzen is winning. Cmon hashi fanboys step it up!

Physically strongest would be the pure blood Senju Hashirama. And also, I like how your hiruzen fans only speculate.. and conclude BS like "He knows their jutsus, so he has a answer for them".. yet he was forced by bunch of mindless Edos who were toying with him to commit a suicide technique?. Sorry, but knowing doesn't mean shit if you can't counter it. Madara has seen all the Hokages. Hes already confirmed it Hashirama is the only one... And the guy who has seen Hiruzen's prime also confirmed Hashirama is the only one.... And the Anbu just sent Hiruzens hype to hell by saying Second and the first are HAILED as the best shinobi..

When your hiruzen fans stop making speculations and twisting up words and trying to be smart by doing that.. you'll have a real argument .. so far its bs.

I haven't been following this debate so I'll just answer this part (idk wtf you are talking about in the other pages or what it has to do with Hashirama xd)

The fact that he has been living recently makes him lose credibility as well. He never actually saw Hashirama at his prime. Wasn't Kabuto the one surprised when he saw Flower/plant world or whatever it's called? He hasn't even see Hiruzen fight prime from what we know so why you use Kabuto as a reference is quite strange.
It is true that Madara is biased, at least a little, but from what he have seen, what he has said is at least backed up from what we have seen.

But he proves Hashirama hype wise is more stronger. . Dan sends Sarutobi's hype to hell.. and then Madara just neglects all the hokages besides Hashirama.

Sorry to butt in your argument.. but you say this like it's a fact.. like you know how hiruzen fights.. and you know the combinations he uses.. what you're saying is simply a combination you thought up of..

And your saying like you know of Hashirama's fighting style.. Sorry but as far as their power level goes shown in the manga Hiruzen is a freaking child.

Hiruzen was on that team only for the war.. him , danzo, and like what? 4 other people? it was not a normal 3 man squad.... We do know however that Hiruzen had an extremely close relationship with Hashi and tobi... and he called them both his sensei's.....hiruzen is also very much aware of Hashi's jutsu and how powerful it was..

BOLD part is your assumption.

aware of doesn't mean you can do anything about it.. Tsunade is now aware of PS.. doesn't mean she can do anything about it...

And yea i guess that does make sense in the teaching part. But i think a flashback is required to end that.

 

[blazekev90]

1- I agree.

2-They didn't use it majority of the fight. I can count how many panels they used taijutsu in less them a minute its literally not that much. I counted exactly 6 panels. Literally only 6 panels of the hokage's using taijutsu alone.

3- Looks like Orochimaru had to kill him.

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4-Along with fighting with the sword of kusanagi, summoning Tobirama and Hashirama, Controlling them, and impaling Hiruzen.

5- He still countered wood release and the sword of kusanagi in regards to sword play.

boy they used taijutsu majority of that fight, in which they shouldn't have AT ALL. They released a few basic jutsu, that was easily countered. It doesn't matter how many panels you countered lol

exactly, you proved my point. Orochimaru had no other motive but to killl Naurto, so he went directly for the kill. If this was the case against the 3rd Hokage, he would have tried to end it here;

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yeah, he barely did anything as i said lol

Emma was done after a small amount of work, I love Emma but that was weak lol

At this point there is nothing else to discuss if you cant understand this.

 

[Unbiased]

Physically strongest would be the pure blood Senju Hashirama. And also, I like how your hiruzen fans only speculate.. and conclude BS like "He knows their jutsus, so he has a answer for them".. yet he was forced by bunch of mindless Edos who were toying with him to commit a suicide technique?. Sorry, but knowing doesn't mean shit if you can't counter it. Madara has seen all the Hokages. Hes already confirmed it Hashirama is the only one... And the guy who has seen Hiruzen's prime also confirmed Hashirama is the only one.... And the Anbu just sent Hiruzens hype to hell by saying Second and the first are HAILED as the best shinobi..

When your hiruzen fans stop making speculations and twisting up words and trying to be smart by doing that.. you'll have a real argument .. so far its bs.


But he proves Hashirama hype wise is more stronger. . Dan sends Sarutobi's hype to hell.. and then Madara just neglects all the hokages besides Hashirama.


And your saying like you know of Hashirama's fighting style.. Sorry but as far as their power level goes shown in the manga Hiruzen is a freaking child.


BOLD part is your assumption.

aware of doesn't mean you can do anything about it.. Tsunade is now aware of PS.. doesn't mean she can do anything about it...

And yea i guess that does make sense in the teaching part. But i think a flashback is required to end that.

1- That was the best jutsu to use since Orochimaru could not resummon them and continue his invasion.

2-Link manga pages showing he has seen hiruzen. Just because he has lived a long life doesn't mean he saw hiruzen. Its ironic your complaining about people making assumptions yet here you are doing the same thing as usual.

3-Dan merely states only Hashirama can defeat madara. That doesn't mean Hiruzen cannot beat Hashirama as he already did.

Link manga scans stating Hashirama was physically stronger then Tsunade. You can't cause you Always make things up

 

[Form]

Physically strongest would be the pure blood Senju Hashirama. And also, I like how your hiruzen fans only speculate.. and conclude BS like "He knows their jutsus, so he has a answer for them".. yet he was forced by bunch of mindless Edos who were toying with him to commit a suicide technique?. Sorry, but knowing doesn't mean shit if you can't counter it. Madara has seen all the Hokages. Hes already confirmed it Hashirama is the only one... And the guy who has seen Hiruzen's prime also confirmed Hashirama is the only one.... And the Anbu just sent Hiruzens hype to hell by saying Second and the first are HAILED as the best shinobi..

When your hiruzen fans stop making speculations and twisting up words and trying to be smart by doing that.. you'll have a real argument .. so far its bs.


But he proves Hashirama hype wise is more stronger. . Dan sends Sarutobi's hype to hell.. and then Madara just neglects all the hokages besides Hashirama.


And your saying like you know of Hashirama's fighting style.. Sorry but as far as their power level goes shown in the manga Hiruzen is a freaking child.


BOLD part is your assumption.

aware of doesn't mean you can do anything about it.. Tsunade is now aware of PS.. doesn't mean she can do anything about it...

And yea i guess that does make sense in the teaching part. But i think a flashback is required to end that.

I don't really care for hiruzen. Just saying they have more valid points. I would like to see a display of hashirama's physical strenght in comparisonto tsunade. The only leaf kage who is pretty BA is Minato

 

[Unbiased]

boy they used taijutsu majority of that fight, in which they shouldn't have AT ALL. They released a few basic jutsu, that was easily countered. It doesn't matter how many panels you countered lol

exactly, you proved my point. Orochimaru had no other motive but to killl Naurto, so he went directly for the kill. If this was the case against the 3rd Hokage, he would have tried to end it here;

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yeah, he barely did anything as i said lol

Emma was done after a small amount of work, I love Emma but that was weak lol

At this point there is nothing else to discuss if you cant understand this.

1-They used Taijutsu specifically after Hiruzen charged in with Emna, and in B.o.D. That's not the majority of the fight..

2-So nativity of the tree's, water barrier, water dragon, B.o.D is all "basic jutsu"? Is that supposed to be a joke as nativity of tree's is a KKG making it non basic, Water dragon is the most complex water style move to pull off (44 hand seals), B.o.D is an A rank genjutsu, and water barrier is B rank that requires 5 seals yet Tobirama only needed one. Again tell me how these are basic jutsus?

Definition of Basic-A fundamental. None of those jutsu's are fundamentals by any means. Fundamentals are like Clone technique and Transformation jutsu.

 

[blazekev90]

1-They used Taijutsu specifically after Hiruzen charged in with Emna, and in B.o.D. That's not the majority of the fight..

2-So nativity of the tree's, water barrier, water dragon, B.o.D is all "basic jutsu"? Is that supposed to be a joke as nativity of tree's is a KKG making it non basic, Water dragon is the most complex water style move to pull off (44 hand seals), B.o.D is an A rank genjutsu, and water barrier is B rank that requires 5 seals yet Tobirama only needed one. Again tell me how these are basic jutsus?

Definition of Basic-A fundamental. None of those jutsu's are fundamentals by any means. Fundamentals are like Clone technique and Transformation jutsu.

dude you started off with 5 bullet points to prove and now you're down to two, are you really trying to continue this?!?! lmao

they used Taijutsu and that's that, if cant understand the point of they not having to use it at all, that's now a personal issue that you cant comprehend.

Regarding two of the most powerful shinboi to have been shown in the manga, these are basic justu. Wood release is what the 1st was known for, what the hell else would you expect him to use!?!??! the 2nd used Water dragon, he was known as the best water user in the series, yet Kakashi used this technique -_- (lmao) that was nothing for him. B.O.D is a nice jutsu and it worked, its not deadly (do it could be), just very useful.

basic depends of the character; for Naruto what's a basic move, Rasengan which is A RANK JUTSU!! Do you get it now?!?! lol

 

[KingHashirama]

1- That was the best jutsu to use since Orochimaru could not resummon them and continue his invasion.

2-Link manga pages showing he has seen hiruzen. Just because he has lived a long life doesn't mean he saw hiruzen. Its ironic your complaining about people making assumptions yet here you are doing the same thing as usual.

3-Dan merely states only Hashirama can defeat madara. That doesn't mean Hiruzen cannot beat Hashirama as he already did.

Link manga scans stating Hashirama was physically stronger then Tsunade. You can't cause you Always make things up

1. Your speculation.. in the manga he was forced.
2. He has lived through Sarutobi's reign.. and has outside contact.. Nagato is a proof.
3. What part of "Only" confuses you?

Link manga page saying Tsunade was physically stronger.

 

[Unbiased]

dude you started off with 5 bullet points to prove and now you're down to two, are you really trying to continue this?!?! lmao

they used Taijutsu and that's that, if cant understand the point of they not having to use it at all, that's now a personal issue that you cant comprehend.

Regarding two of the most powerful shinboi to have been shown in the manga, these are basic justu. Wood release is what the 1st was known for, what the hell else would you expect him to use!?!??! the 2nd used Water dragon, he was known as the best water user in the series, yet Kakashi used this technique -_- (lmao) that was nothing for him. B.O.D is a nice jutsu and it worked, its not deadly (do it could be), just very useful.

basic depends of the character; for Naruto what's a basic move, Rasengan which is A RANK JUTSU!! Do you get it now?!?! lol

1-So now its not majority taijutsu?
2-None of those jutsu's are basic. It's easy for a master of that specific jutsu to use but you state basic which makes you look unintelligent.

"1-Actually suppressing their emotions leads to a lesser mind *u*k as we saw with the reasoning why Kabuto left some with emotions intact. EX-Asuma vs his team"

My point still stands. You never refuted it whatsoever only stating that they would of broken free.

"3-He went for the kill against naruto as a kid"

And you agreed since your original argument was that "When has orochimaru ever gone for a kill".

"4-It stated they were equally matched"

You agreed once again stating "In that fight they were evenly match"

So I'm down to two simply because you couldn't refute my statement or agreed with me.

 

[Form]

1. Your speculation.. in the manga he was forced.
2. He has lived through Sarutobi's reign.. and has outside contact.. Nagato is a proof.
3. What part of "Only" confuses you?

Link manga page saying Tsunade was physically stronger.

Link manga page saying Hashi was physically stronger.

 

[KingHashirama]

Link manga page saying Hashi was physically stronger.

link manga page saying Tsunade was physically stronger.