hiruzen is not the strongest hokage... proof
- Thread starter saar0507
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I asked you to explain why the people wouldn't believe in a weaker power. If you honestly cannot, then that's ok, because I don't expect you to overcome this conundrum by taking Iruka's words as absolute. Clearly the majority of people were labeling Sarutobi as the strongest Hokage because they were disregarding some of Hashirama's feats (most likely his witness-less feat of fighting EMS Madara [who's name starts wars] and the Tsunami inducing, mountain busting Kyūbi [
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]). Let's delve even further into what's actually going on here. Ōnoki, who is from Hiruzen's era, had no knowledge of Perfect Susano'o (like the other Gokage, even Shodai's own granddaughter) - a Perfect Susano'o which has been heavily implied to have been in use at VOTE [
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]. So, how can these people provide an accurate or valid opinion regarding Hashirama's strength if they have no idea about the immensity of Perfect Susano'o's strength [
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][
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]? This is yet more evidence showing that most people were ignorantly heralding Hiruzen as Konoha's greatest ever. Unless you have responses to these points whilst holding both Iruka and Kabuto's (recent) words as true?Kabuto can use the Rinnegan as well as a Nagato with 30 years of experience in the locker. Ok.
KingHashirama
Active member
fairytails are myths... just so you know.
. Peterpan is a fairytale.. it can also be a myth.. don't see your point.. And Kabuto said back in the Hashirama days.. not in current time.. so yea. And also, Mindless killing machine is not superior to a guy who was able to take on 9-tails and Madara with his mind and body O-o. So they were inferior as edos in that aspect.
TrollingSage
Active member
I would rather have my power be so unbelieveable, people dismiss them as mere fairytales, same as the Sage himself. No greater honour than having a power which is so great people even consider to be unbelieveable compared to even a god of shinobi.
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1-I can't explain that it's kishi's story. By the way every word in this manga is written by kishi. So iruka's word and kabuto's are the same as ton ton and ramen guy saying it.
2-It happened go read the fight with Nagato vs naruto/bee/itachi he used every technique he used in Konoha and against Jiraya. That's part of being an Edo tensei. You can use all their original techniques.
3-Why do you keep disagreeing with what the manga has stated? Its painfully obvious as you make up things such as Kabuto can't utilize all of nagato's techniques.
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KingHashirama
Active member
He was mostly trained by Tobirama.. Hashirama was the Hokage.. he is not supposed to be training kids. And before the village was built.. its never said the Sarutobi clan knew the senju.. soo yea. And also, out of his 1000 jutsus he had no seals?
Yea Sarutobi did the fire jutsu and Tobirama and Hashirama used wood and water to block it.. And that was said to be those 2's strongest jutsus.... or high techs.. until Madara came up and did the flower world jutsu. Which Hiruzen has no counter for.
Feats > featless assumptions dawg. xD
SO6P : Senju body + Uchiha eyes + Juubi.
Hashirama : Senju body + mokuton.
Soo yea. SO6P had the rinnegan that set him apart..
Hashirama had Mokuton... Soo you can't compare them and say whose stronger unless we see both of them.
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TrollingSage
Active member
Want more irony? Nagato and Hiruzen share the same nickname, and Nagato was a cripple.
Yet the manga showcases no difference in fighting capabilities between a mindless zombie and an edo with partial control. Don't disagree with the manga now.fairytails are myths... just so you know.
And also, Mindless killing machine is not superior to a guy who was able to take on 9-tails and Madara with his mind and body O-o. So they were inferior as edos in that aspect.
Urda
Active member
Awards
What? (=_=? Then, there is a difference between if their personality is wipe clean, thus turning them into mindless killing machines or keeping their minds and personalities intact for affectively allowing originality of their techniques; and all which in terms determine Hurizen strength at the time of clashing with Edo Tensei version; also adding, one of the above determine if the Edo Tensei summoned are at full-power? Correct?
KingHashirama
Active member
Which battles have you been looking at? and if your talking about the Kabuto edos.. then the difference between his and oro's is the control.
The Necromancer
Active member
Kabuto employed Orochimaru's control as well as his own unique control. Zabuza showed no difference, Haku showed no difference, Nagato showed no difference, 3rd Raikage showed no difference ect.
TrollingSage
Active member
Now you're just clutching at straws. God or God of shinobi they're all gods. Or are you finally admitting some gods are superior to others?
KingHashirama
Active member
God > God of just humans..
You telling me.. He was training Hiruzen while settling up world peace? really? lmao. I find that hilarious. And also, Hiruzen was under Tobirama's team..
.Haku didn't show any difference? and Zabuza didn't? wth .. they just went straight attacking.
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Well an edo tensei is at full power regardless. However the only difference is unlimited chakra. No where in the manga does it state they need their personalities intact and as a matter of fact it shows even without their personalities intact they are still as dangerous if not more deadly.
Nagato was a shinobi yet he was referred to as God.
Hiruzen was a shinobi yet he was referred to as God of Shinobi.
case and point.
I'm simply using the titles to counter other titles not to mention pointing out your lies.
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Thought so. And you don't seem to understand that what Kabuto said directly compromises the validity of Irkua's words. Seriously. It's like (hypothetically speaking) Jiraiya calling Rasengan the strongest technique and then 200 chapters later it turns out Jiraiya was arrogant and a compulsive liar. This directly lowers the validity of his original statement. Kabuto said that most people doubted Hashirama was as strong as the stories claimed. Therefore (obviously) when people are making a decision regarding who they think the strongest Hokage is, their answer isn't going to be accurate, because they're not taking into account Hashirama's full strength.
You keep repeating this as if i've denied it. What is in question is whether Kabuto can use the Rinnegan as effectively as Nagato. Nagato has 30 years of experience. Kabuto has none. An expert with a stone is greater than a novice with a shuriken.
I haven't disagreed with a word of the manga. You just seem unable to comprehend what i've said or even what the manga has said in some cases.