The girl THIS Madara needs for bff and possibly girlfriend?

UCHIHAKUNOICHI

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I think storyline looks sweet. I dunno few suggestion would be to flesh out more on the female character. I am pretty interested she could make good heroine character. KGB stuff is so good i liked it. Maybe i would want her past to be described in detail.

She kind of reminds me of rukia kuchikis character of bleach. Seems promising . I think her being commoner sounds good and classist system needs said in more detail . Why is mito against her ? Overall great !!!
Thanks so much for the support!

In order to be more clear you've got think of this girl here as powerful as Hashirama and Madara, but don't bother much with the details such as what is her family , what country. Let's just focus on the personality and psychological aspect (since all the true plot wouldn't fit here - like modern guns XD). She is fearless, a prodigy -since she saved Izuna (in the true story she is a skilled at chemistry), and believes Madara should be elected.

She is feeling that Tobirama and the elders are excluding the Uchiha on purpose -and is standing up against them every time she can.

And that's why Mito isn't much into her: she feels fear of being criticized (is she talks to much with someone that hates feudal domination), and also: she thinks that as the girl has a Stalin + suffragete stance, she is too immature and should stay quiet.
Remember her telling Kurama to stay quiet?

By canon standarts: what you think that Hashirama would think of her relationship with Madara and Izuna?
 

UCHIHAKUNOICHI

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Are you asking me what Mito thinks of her?
-

They met at the daimyo meeting for negotiation (still dont know what that is) - so her declined what Tobirama and Mito had to say, i think that Mito actually saw a brave young girl that nothing will stand in her way to achieve her goals. So, Mito actually likes her, but she dont want to admit to Tobirama and others because they dont share the same opinion.

Her and Madara ? - When deppends on the scenario. There could be more scenarios. If Izuna is alive or not. and if Madara is alone.

But lets say that Madara is alone just like he was and he was betrayed by the Uchiha clan. This girl was also betrayed by everyone just like Madara...and she saw similarities between the two and thats how they got to get along.

Lol - forgot about the villagers - I think they see her as an outsider as she doesnt belong there and she is kinda dark and scary for them
I'm here on the computer trying my best in this book!:busy:

Before continuing I'd like to present you the daimyo XD
You must be registered for see images

I'm a bit confused, just clear this up: Mito has mixed feelings for the girl since she admires her bravery, but still thinks she bugs too much in important business (since she is not as "royal" as her)?
Okay now we have a consistent idea of what the girl thinks about Tobirama and Hashirama.
But what does Hashirama thinks about her? (I think Tobirama sees her as a threat just as Izuna and Madara - this guy doesn't relax XD)

**And important note: In this story a prototype of Madara's mother is alive in just a early part. In which she witnesses the girl saving Izuna. By the idea YOU have of Madara's mother, does she starts to idolize the girl or just treats her respecfully, but like "now get out of here girl" ?

Take your time to answer this, because it's very detailed and deep situations.
 

UCHIHAKUNOICHI

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You all can answer this question too:

1. How Hashirama would view and treat the girl?

2. How Madara's mother (take your OWN idea of how you imagine her) would behave before and after around the girl since she saved Izuna. And Tajima?

Here is some information on Tajima:

You must be registered for see images


And here is an image that pictures my idea of Madara's mother (made by FireEagle Spirit)

You must be registered for see images
 

Klubargutan

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Hanabi Hyuga -> they would make a great dojutsu duo...and their children would be op beasts with byakusharingan!:)

You all can answer this question too:

1. How Hashirama would view and treat the girl?

2. How Madara's mother (take your OWN idea of how you imagine her) would behave before and after around the girl since she saved Izuna. And Tajima?

Here is some information on Tajima:

You must be registered for see images


And here is an image that pictures my idea of Madara's mother (made by FireEagle Spirit)

You must be registered for see images

1) He'd either kill her to save her from the world (provided that he got crazy again) or love her and protect her till the end.

2) I have no idea :(
 

UCHIHAKUNOICHI

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Hanabi Hyuga -> they would make a great dojutsu duo...and their children would be op beasts with byakusharingan!:)
Hahaha I'm sure XD

But please, could you help in these scenarios?

It's because the writers and I are having a lot of trouble while making the characterization of characters, and we need more long analysis about these scenarios with the girl I wrote (sure we added your ideas of her being powerful):

Scenario 1: Madara has just faced rejection in a meeting (Tobirama and Hashirama are present) since all his ideas leads other into thinking all he wants is war. This one girl is watching all of this and then she steps in and tries to explain all of Madara is wanting -and truly in his heart - but Mito is the one that calls her on and humilliates her since her background is one of a commoner (in our story it's one of Industrial Workers) and all she is saying is childish talk. She is asked to get out. (Even being a strong powerhouse). NOTE: Mito is engaged to Hashirama already, so anything that Madara says will make Hashirama feel something.

And then Izuna gets in. (note: the girl has saved his life - in our story she is a skilled in chemistry so she helps a injuried brother of the main character)

What Madara and Izuna think and do?

Scenario 2. Hashirama has taken notice of all of the feats of this girl. He knows she is as powerful as Stalin troops, that she saved Izuna, that she approves Madara and would vote in Madara. But he also knows she has some "weak backgroud".
One day she finally snaps at him, telling that he is nothing but a puppet of Tobirama. He is alone with her. What does he do?
 

UCHIHAKUNOICHI

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Hanabi Hyuga -> they would make a great dojutsu duo...and their children would be op beasts with byakusharingan!:)




1) He'd either kill her to save her from the world (provided that he got crazy again) or love her and protect her till the end.

2) I have no idea :(
Ok! Number 2 Really is a dense thing. I'm thinking about posting here a characterization of her (Madara's mother), so I can discuss more an early part of the book with everybody.

But just one thing: how Hashirama would treat the girl? You switched him with Madara XD
 

ThelUchiha

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I'm here on the computer trying my best in this book!:busy:

Before continuing I'd like to present you the daimyo XD
You must be registered for see images

I'm a bit confused, just clear this up: Mito has mixed feelings for the girl since she admires her bravery, but still thinks she bugs too much in important business (since she is not as "royal" as her)?
Okay now we have a consistent idea of what the girl thinks about Tobirama and Hashirama.
But what does Hashirama thinks about her? (I think Tobirama sees her as a threat just as Izuna and Madara - this guy doesn't relax XD)

**And important note: In this story a prototype of Madara's mother is alive in just a early part. In which she witnesses the girl saving Izuna. By the idea YOU have of Madara's mother, does she starts to idolize the girl or just treats her respecfully, but like "now get out of here girl" ?

Take your time to answer this, because it's very detailed and deep situations.
In the last negotiation her and Tobirama got in the conflict and like she said " This guy really gets on my nervs, i should finish him of with my deadly no jutsu" lol

Since she saved Izuna life, and in at the end of negotiation from my previous quote - Madara did ask her to join his clan and meet his father , so even if she isnt royal she is now part of the Uchiha clan along side with Madara and Izuna and sharinga the close power to them. So she have every right to negotiate

Madara's mother would only say one thing " Take care of my son, cause he is troublemaker " Madara smiles again
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and the girl says, you dont have to worry mam' i will take care him".
 

Aim64C

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Oh gosh. You got it totally wrong. We are not trying to do a tool device to solve Madara's problem. Nor Mito can be told to be a girl to fit as his BFF, as she is her own person here. Nor we are trying to make a perfect person so Madara can be interested romantically. We are talking about a person that Madara can respect in the long term and share a lot of good moments with.
I'm saying that your focus is almost exclusively political, which accounts for only a small portion of a person's ideas and moral compass.

Question... as a conservative, would you ever expect me to buy a home I do not live in or a car that I do not drive to help someone else?

Political views and personal moral or ethical goals are not necessarily the same. What I believe is a good governmental structure is not necessarily an indicator as to how I will choose to behave, personally. In many cases, it is almost the opposite - as the things I see the government needing to be deprived the power to do, I see as being the responsibility of the individuals. The government isn't supposed to be charitable with money it can legally steal from people. I am supposed to be charitable with money, time, skills, etc that I have earned and can spend accordingly.

Talking like Hashirama is the ONLY person that can stir up interest in Madara is a lie. I'm sure people like his mother, all his 4 brothers, his father, Butsuma, Tobirama can have a successful time talking about his passions or making him lose his head with rage.
That wasn't exactly what I meant.

One of the girls I had a very deep connection with when I was younger, and may even still have (we will see), had rather passionate differences in opinion with me. She and I were both fairly politically-minded, and held very strong views on such things. Yet, she was always very committed to the idea of truth. What we really enjoyed seeing was both each other's passion for something, and how we could interpret the meaning of the same or similar truths very differently. And I thought it was adorable how she could get worked up over me still not agreeing with her.

Even though this was back during the days of dial-up, we raved about each other to our families. My mom knew who she was, her mom knew who I was (actually posited that I was a god - though within a wiccan context). Her sister teased her about our sort of e-romance thing that we had going on. Good times. We lost touch with each other after she had to move over some family issues and fell into hard economic times. It's kind of crazy to think that it was literally about half my life ago. She called, once - right before they were going to move. She was so nervous that she had her sister call. Because of the time difference, though, I was already asleep and my mom answered the phone.

After that, it was really only glancing contact over the years. An e-mail here, an instant message there. Even though we often came out on different sides of a subject - we almost always valued and treasured the same things, it seemed. Bringing up those memories evokes a sort of child-like awe and giddy-ness that I largely walled off. A sort of true self that I rarely allow to be seen, since. The deafening silence between us over the years is rather simple to explain - "that's childish." We are adults, now, and expected to do adult things. Fawning over a person on the other side of the world, tracking down a young love with the hope that the feelings you hold are reflected in them... nonsense. Aint nobody got time for that. They moved on and so should you.

... What were we talking about, again?

Actually you didn't answer something I really wanted you to: this Madara person (note: in this story it's not even Madara, but someone with a lot of similarities) how would he behave with someone like suffragette + Stalin stance (please take in consideration not just your character, but mine as well, focusing on her). That's it. I want to hear the problems and the good things that come out in this relationship.

The Hidden Hand of the Signature. Watch to the end. This message will self-destruct in 3 days.

I jest. Kind of.

Anyway ... it's rather difficult to translate Naruto politics to historical politics. Stalinism largely rose up out of Leninism, which arose from the Bolshevik revolution and the ideals of Marxism on the impact of industrialization on society/economics. A lot of Stalin's views simply don't make sense within the Naruto universe as the economic and political structure of Naruto is so abstract, as are many of the character views within Naruto.

It's difficult to say there are historical figures similar to Madara. One could argue Oda Nobunaga, in some ways, but that is actually a little closer to Pain or Sasuke's final stance before VOTE2 - simply being a terror to terror. Fight darkness by making the darkness fear itself. Which... wasn't really what Madara settled on, or how he thought when he was younger. If anything, Madara was simply defined by his family lineage and overall strength in combat. He was effectively defined by creating a foil for Hashirama as a sort of distant echo of Sasuke. His motivations and aspirations were to see the fighting end, and his frustration with the fighting not ending as well as it should have, and his belief that the Uchiha were being sidelined.

Beyond that, he really has very little political definition... even in simple ideology of whether he was more of a collectivist or an individualist. For example, if he was the Hokage, would he expect the other families to set aside their own personal views of their family and unite under his directives? Or would he be more in favor of councils and the ability for clans to manage their own affairs? I get the sense that he would actually have a bit of a double-standard by nature, favoring the Uchiha being able to do their own thing when he is not the Hokage, and then expecting every other clan to step in line with his guidance after he becomes Hokage.

Since Madara is largely defined by his conflicts with Hashirama and Tobirama, a person who potentially intervenes in those disputes and helps Madara resolve to any other action than his canon ones greatly alters how his character develops within the story and how we see Madara in general. A scenario where Madara does not fight Hashirama to the death means that Tobidara either never becomes Hokage, or does so much later ... if at all. A scenario where the Uchiha are never made to feel as sidelined as they were has the potential to avoid the fight between him and Hashirama in the first place.

So... how would Madara interact with someone who held a Stalinist and Suffraggette view? Tobirama seemed to hold views and patterns of behavior very similar to Stalin. Stalin espoused the State/Nation over the individual or the family.... hard core, at that, too. To a younger Madara who was being made subject to that view of a State that was anything other than Uchiha... he would probably be rather hostile to it. It would take some rather delicate positioning on her part to get Madara to agree to the notion she was expressing a fair view. If anything - he really wouldn't want much to do with the politics, and would probably 'let that be her thing'... right up until he was unhappy with things.

GOODNESS, It doesn't even have to be romantic!
Perhaps my 'old' self would agree... but who I really am disagrees with that quite passionately.

It's just like with our parents: some things are nice, some are not. And still we are able to love each other.
My parents loved each other. A lot. They would talk to each other for hours every night on the phone when my dad had to live apart from us for a job, for a while. My father never spoke ill of my mother, even in jest. There were few things that got an immediate, aggressive reaction from my father than a slight against our mother. When it came to us kids, we were always given a very judicious process that sentenced us to spanking, grounding, or whatever. While they had their disagreements, they were never in front of us kids, and I never heard him raise his voice at her, ever. This is a man who had a temper as bad as mine and could utterly destroy things in a single stroke of rage (including a few people who found out that he could punch them through plate glass). When it came to our mother and us, he held nothing but compassion (well... frustration at times).

When I grew up and saw how other people's parents behaved, it blew my mind. Certainly, the way couples behave in TV dramas and books is absolutely disgusting to me. "Family Guy" - while I can see some of the humor in it, is nothing more than an insult to the concept propagated to poison the minds of entire generations.

While it's true that there can be many functional relationships that aren't violent, abusive, or toxic - this is the "I am a 50 year old man or 35 year old woman and have run out of time" solution to the problem of having no heirs. It's... sad and tragic that we would reduce our families and our homes to such a utilitarian degree. True - at least it isn't the vile sewer propagated by media... but it's still a massive step backward in my estimation.

It's important to note: she has saved Izuna here, so yes, he sees her as different.
Also: she is quite against Tobirama and Mito (representing feudal ideology), something that hurts Madara's goals and made him fell into despair in the long term. That's why the syndicalism is important here, just like when she helps him denounce Tobirama's prejudice.
I mean... it just sounds like you're creating a Fem-Inner-Madara. Anything Madara bites his tongue over, she stands up and gives voice to, like Inner Sakura. You're saying that she's her own person... but everything is through the frame of Madara's views of a political system that he really didn't want much to do with in the first place. She's more or less a sort of Greek Chorus.

Which is about all she can be if she can't actually change events. I can see the scenario, quite easily, where she starts going off on Tobirama while he is around, and he acts to squelch her simply because he doesn't want to see the argument. He doesn't want the fight - but she does. I've seen similar in other couples, or even platonic relationships. When the "fireballs" of the group start going off and striking up an argument the ones uncomfortable with conflict wish to avoid... they either end up attacking the fireballs, themselves - or flat-out abandoning the conversation and getting angry at the hot-heads for 'creating an argument.'

This girl lights up Tobirama only to have Madara storm away from the group, then tell her that she's not helping issues; that he doesn't need her to fight his battles, and that he doesn't need or want someone to create more conflict. Or... he tries to tell her to be quiet on the spot - and then she torches him, too.

She has to be a very combative personality where he has to be a very sympathetic personality... and the two are just not on the same wavelength. While Madara's fighting style may be very aggressive and overpowering, his actual presence works out to be more insular and reserved. He prefers to bite his tongue until a problem gets to a point where he's willing to blow up the planet to put an end to it, and he is very hard-headed about that way of living.

When she denounces Hashirama for being a pawn -well....their relationship is streched - in a really bad way. But I'm in doubt since Madara is not above feeling bad and grudges against Hashirama.
This really depends upon exactly how the scenario unfolds and how effective she is at talk-no-jutsu. Typically, attacking your partner's friend(s) in front of them is an invitation to fight your partner, as well. If I were to get a wife and then tell her that one of her friends is a scum-guzzling, tailpipe huffing, chalkboard screecher - right or wrong, then I am probably going to end up having two women trying to slap at me, even if my hypothetical wife would agree with me in private. It doesn't mean I can't do it... or that I wouldn't... but it's "cruising for a bruising" as they used to say.

If she were truly the more diplomatic type, then I would say that she would wait for a moment when the two men were apart from each other and then try to explain why one feels the way they do to the other, or to give a condemnation of their opinion/behavior. Unless Madara is the type who seeks validation from his partner if a dispute is unfolding between him and another. Some people are like that - they get irritated when their partner isn't acting as a proverbial Greek Chorus, but I don't really see that in Madara.
 

jimbobbity

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You all can answer this question too:

1. How Hashirama would view and treat the girl?

2. How Madara's mother (take your OWN idea of how you imagine her) would behave before and after around the girl since she saved Izuna. And Tajima?

Here is some information on Tajima:

You must be registered for see images


And here is an image that pictures my idea of Madara's mother (made by FireEagle Spirit)

You must be registered for see images
She looks like a solid MILF but she looks so much like madara. Does that make me gay, bi or just hetero?
 

UCHIHAKUNOICHI

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she looks so much like madara. Does that make me gay, bi or just hetero?
Fire Eagle Spirit do makes beautiful characters! She is called Midori by this tumblr user. There are much better images of her!

And ....It makes you someone that needs to answer the scenarios.

lol but seriously, yeah, you need to do it. These are the rules.
 

Shanks

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I'm here on the computer trying my best in this book!:busy:

Before continuing I'd like to present you the daimyo XD
You must be registered for see images

I'm a bit confused, just clear this up: Mito has mixed feelings for the girl since she admires her bravery, but still thinks she bugs too much in important business (since she is not as "royal" as her)?
Okay now we have a consistent idea of what the girl thinks about Tobirama and Hashirama.
But what does Hashirama thinks about her? (I think Tobirama sees her as a threat just as Izuna and Madara - this guy doesn't relax XD)

**And important note: In this story a prototype of Madara's mother is alive in just a early part. In which she witnesses the girl saving Izuna. By the idea YOU have of Madara's mother, does she starts to idolize the girl or just treats her respecfully, but like "now get out of here girl" ?

Take your time to answer this, because it's very detailed and deep situations.
Edit : I made a detail answer my internet crashed :( I ll write it again

Well i think i like mitos character here its great you involve her more into the story. I would want see more politics side as well.

Hashirama would be more cautious person , he knows she has a job of secret agent and her being commoner and madara perhaps is from nobel clan he would want her not to pursue him. You would remember this is classist society . Even great leaders in the past were classist even the likes of Napoleone , Churchill they mostly were. XD

Ican see you make something of another game of throne kind of series. The story looks great . I am curious what is the future plot .
 

UCHIHAKUNOICHI

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I'm saying that your focus is almost exclusively political, which accounts for only a small portion of a person's ideas and moral compass.

Question... as a conservative, would you ever expect me to buy a home I do not live in or a car that I do not drive to help someone else?

Political views and personal moral or ethical goals are not necessarily the same. What I believe is a good governmental structure is not necessarily an indicator as to how I will choose to behave, personally. In many cases, it is almost the opposite - as the things I see the government needing to be deprived the power to do, I see as being the responsibility of the individuals. The government isn't supposed to be charitable with money it can legally steal from people. I am supposed to be charitable with money, time, skills, etc that I have earned and can spend accordingly.



That wasn't exactly what I meant.

One of the girls I had a very deep connection with when I was younger, and may even still have (we will see), had rather passionate differences in opinion with me. She and I were both fairly politically-minded, and held very strong views on such things. Yet, she was always very committed to the idea of truth. What we really enjoyed seeing was both each other's passion for something, and how we could interpret the meaning of the same or similar truths very differently. And I thought it was adorable how she could get worked up over me still not agreeing with her.

Even though this was back during the days of dial-up, we raved about each other to our families. My mom knew who she was, her mom knew who I was (actually posited that I was a god - though within a wiccan context). Her sister teased her about our sort of e-romance thing that we had going on. Good times. We lost touch with each other after she had to move over some family issues and fell into hard economic times. It's kind of crazy to think that it was literally about half my life ago. She called, once - right before they were going to move. She was so nervous that she had her sister call. Because of the time difference, though, I was already asleep and my mom answered the phone.

After that, it was really only glancing contact over the years. An e-mail here, an instant message there. Even though we often came out on different sides of a subject - we almost always valued and treasured the same things, it seemed. Bringing up those memories evokes a sort of child-like awe and giddy-ness that I largely walled off. A sort of true self that I rarely allow to be seen, since. The deafening silence between us over the years is rather simple to explain - "that's childish." We are adults, now, and expected to do adult things. Fawning over a person on the other side of the world, tracking down a young love with the hope that the feelings you hold are reflected in them... nonsense. Aint nobody got time for that. They moved on and so should you.

... What were we talking about, again?




The Hidden Hand of the Signature. Watch to the end. This message will self-destruct in 3 days.

I jest. Kind of.

Anyway ... it's rather difficult to translate Naruto politics to historical politics. Stalinism largely rose up out of Leninism, which arose from the Bolshevik revolution and the ideals of Marxism on the impact of industrialization on society/economics. A lot of Stalin's views simply don't make sense within the Naruto universe as the economic and political structure of Naruto is so abstract, as are many of the character views within Naruto.

It's difficult to say there are historical figures similar to Madara. One could argue Oda Nobunaga, in some ways, but that is actually a little closer to Pain or Sasuke's final stance before VOTE2 - simply being a terror to terror. Fight darkness by making the darkness fear itself. Which... wasn't really what Madara settled on, or how he thought when he was younger. If anything, Madara was simply defined by his family lineage and overall strength in combat. He was effectively defined by creating a foil for Hashirama as a sort of distant echo of Sasuke. His motivations and aspirations were to see the fighting end, and his frustration with the fighting not ending as well as it should have, and his belief that the Uchiha were being sidelined.

Beyond that, he really has very little political definition... even in simple ideology of whether he was more of a collectivist or an individualist. For example, if he was the Hokage, would he expect the other families to set aside their own personal views of their family and unite under his directives? Or would he be more in favor of councils and the ability for clans to manage their own affairs? I get the sense that he would actually have a bit of a double-standard by nature, favoring the Uchiha being able to do their own thing when he is not the Hokage, and then expecting every other clan to step in line with his guidance after he becomes Hokage.

Since Madara is largely defined by his conflicts with Hashirama and Tobirama, a person who potentially intervenes in those disputes and helps Madara resolve to any other action than his canon ones greatly alters how his character develops within the story and how we see Madara in general. A scenario where Madara does not fight Hashirama to the death means that Tobidara either never becomes Hokage, or does so much later ... if at all. A scenario where the Uchiha are never made to feel as sidelined as they were has the potential to avoid the fight between him and Hashirama in the first place.

So... how would Madara interact with someone who held a Stalinist and Suffraggette view? Tobirama seemed to hold views and patterns of behavior very similar to Stalin. Stalin espoused the State/Nation over the individual or the family.... hard core, at that, too. To a younger Madara who was being made subject to that view of a State that was anything other than Uchiha... he would probably be rather hostile to it. It would take some rather delicate positioning on her part to get Madara to agree to the notion she was expressing a fair view. If anything - he really wouldn't want much to do with the politics, and would probably 'let that be her thing'... right up until he was unhappy with things.



Perhaps my 'old' self would agree... but who I really am disagrees with that quite passionately.



My parents loved each other. A lot. They would talk to each other for hours every night on the phone when my dad had to live apart from us for a job, for a while. My father never spoke ill of my mother, even in jest. There were few things that got an immediate, aggressive reaction from my father than a slight against our mother. When it came to us kids, we were always given a very judicious process that sentenced us to spanking, grounding, or whatever. While they had their disagreements, they were never in front of us kids, and I never heard him raise his voice at her, ever. This is a man who had a temper as bad as mine and could utterly destroy things in a single stroke of rage (including a few people who found out that he could punch them through plate glass). When it came to our mother and us, he held nothing but compassion (well... frustration at times).

When I grew up and saw how other people's parents behaved, it blew my mind. Certainly, the way couples behave in TV dramas and books is absolutely disgusting to me. "Family Guy" - while I can see some of the humor in it, is nothing more than an insult to the concept propagated to poison the minds of entire generations.

While it's true that there can be many functional relationships that aren't violent, abusive, or toxic - this is the "I am a 50 year old man or 35 year old woman and have run out of time" solution to the problem of having no heirs. It's... sad and tragic that we would reduce our families and our homes to such a utilitarian degree. True - at least it isn't the vile sewer propagated by media... but it's still a massive step backward in my estimation.



I mean... it just sounds like you're creating a Fem-Inner-Madara. Anything Madara bites his tongue over, she stands up and gives voice to, like Inner Sakura. You're saying that she's her own person... but everything is through the frame of Madara's views of a political system that he really didn't want much to do with in the first place. She's more or less a sort of Greek Chorus.

Which is about all she can be if she can't actually change events. I can see the scenario, quite easily, where she starts going off on Tobirama while he is around, and he acts to squelch her simply because he doesn't want to see the argument. He doesn't want the fight - but she does. I've seen similar in other couples, or even platonic relationships. When the "fireballs" of the group start going off and striking up an argument the ones uncomfortable with conflict wish to avoid... they either end up attacking the fireballs, themselves - or flat-out abandoning the conversation and getting angry at the hot-heads for 'creating an argument.'

This girl lights up Tobirama only to have Madara storm away from the group, then tell her that she's not helping issues; that he doesn't need her to fight his battles, and that he doesn't need or want someone to create more conflict. Or... he tries to tell her to be quiet on the spot - and then she torches him, too.

She has to be a very combative personality where he has to be a very sympathetic personality... and the two are just not on the same wavelength. While Madara's fighting style may be very aggressive and overpowering, his actual presence works out to be more insular and reserved. He prefers to bite his tongue until a problem gets to a point where he's willing to blow up the planet to put an end to it, and he is very hard-headed about that way of living.



This really depends upon exactly how the scenario unfolds and how effective she is at talk-no-jutsu. Typically, attacking your partner's friend(s) in front of them is an invitation to fight your partner, as well. If I were to get a wife and then tell her that one of her friends is a scum-guzzling, tailpipe huffing, chalkboard screecher - right or wrong, then I am probably going to end up having two women trying to slap at me, even if my hypothetical wife would agree with me in private. It doesn't mean I can't do it... or that I wouldn't... but it's "cruising for a bruising" as they used to say.

If she were truly the more diplomatic type, then I would say that she would wait for a moment when the two men were apart from each other and then try to explain why one feels the way they do to the other, or to give a condemnation of their opinion/behavior. Unless Madara is the type who seeks validation from his partner if a dispute is unfolding between him and another. Some people are like that - they get irritated when their partner isn't acting as a proverbial Greek Chorus, but I don't really see that in Madara.
I'm saying that your focus is almost exclusively political, which accounts for only a small portion of a person's ideas and moral compass.

Question... as a conservative, would you ever expect me to buy a home I do not live in or a car that I do not drive to help someone else?

Political views and personal moral or ethical goals are not necessarily the same. What I believe is a good governmental structure is not necessarily an indicator as to how I will choose to behave, personally.

I'm actually happy you noticed this. It's because most people here would just focus on emotional aspects. Or worse: their fangirl or hater childish beliefs. What would make this discussion impossible in the way me and my group needs.
It means I can finally move on with other aspects of her own character.
Note: sometimes I don't put her whole character here (because it's a book with more than 300 pages lol) and because her character doesn't really fits in Naruto's story. I just tell the main "events" that happen in the actual story. Of course naruto-ish.

Well, we have an impass here: Madara politically as you stated is driven to act based on his on human morals. That's why he talks about showing guts. His political decisions are much more driven by morals, rather than politics' convenience. That's one of the motives he was seen as a monster.
This girl sees this. And that's one of the things she admires in him. New thing: in a Parallel story, she (here she is 14 years old) was once betrayed by her own people after losing her house in a bombing (and by now -Just by now I am still trying to figure out the full fledged characterization but just for you to understand a Madara like ghost appears to her) and guess what? He also admires her competence for still trying to care for her own people (she is a amateur chemist that eventually helps a lot of injuried soldiers and people by the war), but still has her hate growing inside of her making her grow to a person like Stalin (ALWAYS MILITARISTIC SPEAKING- she never speaks like that around actual people). So yeah, in Naruto story she would rage war just like Hashirama, Izuna did. And very successfully.

(LIKE GOSH SHE IS VERY SUCCESSFUL- Tobirama and Mito actually get jealous because how can a commoner background person be surpassing them - and yes it brings problems to Madara: he must deal with " Finally someone is supporting him in politics" with some some syndical leader that causes stares due not being feudal royal). Yeah, it has problems. but Madara also admires her a lot !She is a BETTER LEADER THAN HE WAS BEING AND MATCHES HIM IN POWER LIKE WOW! Izuna also wants to train with her, LIKE WOW!
***********
But....when it comes to interaction with people she always judge them:

1. If they aren't the people who betrayed her, otherwise she will always seek to get revenge on them (just like Madara did with that stare at Tobirama) (wavelenght is nice here I guess?)
2. If they are her own people (which she loves to the bottom of her heart and would do anything for them - and would always feel pity at "misunderstood by their own people" leaders - because it happened with her - wavelenght is nice here too I guess)
3. If they are in a terrible family situation (that's why she helped Izuna And I am Sure this certainly makes madara greateful to some really big extent - since not even his bff HASHIRAMA didn't help.) I am sure he would consider her a forever sister. I mean, he was able to forgive the guy who killed him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

4. If they are group oriented or not. That's why I'm telling she is "suffragete like" -in diplomacy she doesn't tell . Also she later becomes a successful "syndicalist". What means in Naruto story she is a powerful character that has her own roots, and plans on honoring it with her own blood (that's why she isn't a "Sakura") she has a voice, but most people doesn't want to hear due being from a poor -but powerful- background.
Madara was simply defined by his family lineage and overall strength in combat. He was effectively defined by creating a foil for Hashirama as a sort of distant echo of Sasuke. His motivations and aspirations were to see the fighting end, and his frustration with the fighting not ending as well as it should have, and his belief that the Uchiha were being sidelined.

And so is this girl defined by this. Just change Uchiha for her own clan and that's it. lol But there is a problem I will address later (something that do make her and Madara different).

I mean... it just sounds like you're creating a Fem-Inner-Madara. Anything Madara bites his tongue over, she stands up and gives voice to, like Inner Sakura. You're saying that she's her own person... but everything is through the frame of Madara's views of a political system that he really didn't want much to do with in the first place. She's more or less a sort of Greek Chorus.

No. I'm not. It's just that it's HUGE coincidence in this part of the plot. They meet each other, and they are facing the same problems. Thing is: she is much more experienced with dealing with politics (as I said she is a kind of suffragete). That's WHY she would step up more often.

Goodness. In this situation they are much like ELSA AND ANNA (Disney lololol). Both can discuss, but when they do they are able to come with nice terms. But she is the most intelligent to know how to deal with Tobirama and everything that he does because he hates Madara. NO SHE IS NOT A GREEK CHORUS. She just hates see the injustice behind the scenes. Madara lost all his brothers and still is willing to work together. And that's what he gets? She feels EMPATHY, A LOT OF.

You can't blame Santos Dumondt or Wright Brothers for creating planes right in a era that nationalism began. It just happened and people took advantage of that. (Don't even come with a long analysis in this one).

So finally: I guess after this long rant I hope I changed your mind and showed that is consistent the fact that Madara would appreciate her help and would never cut her out- although I agree that arguments could happen in a while. After all he wanted Hashirama's help but never got it -one of the motives he got into despair. I think that even the food shop owner looked down at him like lol XD

NEW question: how Tajima and Butsuma and Izuna himself would treat and view her -after and before healing Izuna?

I'll discuss the later paragraphs later
 
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Warmaker87

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Could also be a ordinary Girl. No Konoichi. Madara was not bad from the start and suffered under the pressure from war in his child era. Maybe a girl he knew from Childhood and he is reaching his Powers just to Protect her.
 

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Could also be a ordinary Girl. No Konoichi. Madara was not bad from the start and suffered under the pressure from war in his child era. Maybe a girl he knew from Childhood and he is reaching his Powers just to Protect her.
Hm. Yeah, she could also be a civilian. :) It would be original.


But still: I think he would be afraid to see her get smashed by the terrible Warring States. Also to see them becoming BFF maybe she needs to be somehow powerful?

Do you think she needs to be a successful politician? Like put Tobirama in his place? I really want to know your ideas.
 

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I'm saying that your focus is almost exclusively political, which accounts for only a small portion of a person's ideas and moral compass.

Question... as a conservative, would you ever expect me to buy a home I do not live in or a car that I do not drive to help someone else?

Political views and personal moral or ethical goals are not necessarily the same. What I believe is a good governmental structure is not necessarily an indicator as to how I will choose to behave, personally. In many cases, it is almost the opposite - as the things I see the government needing to be deprived the power to do, I see as being the responsibility of the individuals. The government isn't supposed to be charitable with money it can legally steal from people. I am supposed to be charitable with money, time, skills, etc that I have earned and can spend accordingly.



That wasn't exactly what I meant.

One of the girls I had a very deep connection with when I was younger, and may even still have (we will see), had rather passionate differences in opinion with me. She and I were both fairly politically-minded, and held very strong views on such things. Yet, she was always very committed to the idea of truth. What we really enjoyed seeing was both each other's passion for something, and how we could interpret the meaning of the same or similar truths very differently. And I thought it was adorable how she could get worked up over me still not agreeing with her.

Even though this was back during the days of dial-up, we raved about each other to our families. My mom knew who she was, her mom knew who I was (actually posited that I was a god - though within a wiccan context). Her sister teased her about our sort of e-romance thing that we had going on. Good times. We lost touch with each other after she had to move over some family issues and fell into hard economic times. It's kind of crazy to think that it was literally about half my life ago. She called, once - right before they were going to move. She was so nervous that she had her sister call. Because of the time difference, though, I was already asleep and my mom answered the phone.

After that, it was really only glancing contact over the years. An e-mail here, an instant message there. Even though we often came out on different sides of a subject - we almost always valued and treasured the same things, it seemed. Bringing up those memories evokes a sort of child-like awe and giddy-ness that I largely walled off. A sort of true self that I rarely allow to be seen, since. The deafening silence between us over the years is rather simple to explain - "that's childish." We are adults, now, and expected to do adult things. Fawning over a person on the other side of the world, tracking down a young love with the hope that the feelings you hold are reflected in them... nonsense. Aint nobody got time for that. They moved on and so should you.

... What were we talking about, again?




The Hidden Hand of the Signature. Watch to the end. This message will self-destruct in 3 days.

I jest. Kind of.

Anyway ... it's rather difficult to translate Naruto politics to historical politics. Stalinism largely rose up out of Leninism, which arose from the Bolshevik revolution and the ideals of Marxism on the impact of industrialization on society/economics. A lot of Stalin's views simply don't make sense within the Naruto universe as the economic and political structure of Naruto is so abstract, as are many of the character views within Naruto.

It's difficult to say there are historical figures similar to Madara. One could argue Oda Nobunaga, in some ways, but that is actually a little closer to Pain or Sasuke's final stance before VOTE2 - simply being a terror to terror. Fight darkness by making the darkness fear itself. Which... wasn't really what Madara settled on, or how he thought when he was younger. If anything, Madara was simply defined by his family lineage and overall strength in combat. He was effectively defined by creating a foil for Hashirama as a sort of distant echo of Sasuke. His motivations and aspirations were to see the fighting end, and his frustration with the fighting not ending as well as it should have, and his belief that the Uchiha were being sidelined.

Beyond that, he really has very little political definition... even in simple ideology of whether he was more of a collectivist or an individualist. For example, if he was the Hokage, would he expect the other families to set aside their own personal views of their family and unite under his directives? Or would he be more in favor of councils and the ability for clans to manage their own affairs? I get the sense that he would actually have a bit of a double-standard by nature, favoring the Uchiha being able to do their own thing when he is not the Hokage, and then expecting every other clan to step in line with his guidance after he becomes Hokage.

Since Madara is largely defined by his conflicts with Hashirama and Tobirama, a person who potentially intervenes in those disputes and helps Madara resolve to any other action than his canon ones greatly alters how his character develops within the story and how we see Madara in general. A scenario where Madara does not fight Hashirama to the death means that Tobidara either never becomes Hokage, or does so much later ... if at all. A scenario where the Uchiha are never made to feel as sidelined as they were has the potential to avoid the fight between him and Hashirama in the first place.

So... how would Madara interact with someone who held a Stalinist and Suffraggette view? Tobirama seemed to hold views and patterns of behavior very similar to Stalin. Stalin espoused the State/Nation over the individual or the family.... hard core, at that, too. To a younger Madara who was being made subject to that view of a State that was anything other than Uchiha... he would probably be rather hostile to it. It would take some rather delicate positioning on her part to get Madara to agree to the notion she was expressing a fair view. If anything - he really wouldn't want much to do with the politics, and would probably 'let that be her thing'... right up until he was unhappy with things.



Perhaps my 'old' self would agree... but who I really am disagrees with that quite passionately.



My parents loved each other. A lot. They would talk to each other for hours every night on the phone when my dad had to live apart from us for a job, for a while. My father never spoke ill of my mother, even in jest. There were few things that got an immediate, aggressive reaction from my father than a slight against our mother. When it came to us kids, we were always given a very judicious process that sentenced us to spanking, grounding, or whatever. While they had their disagreements, they were never in front of us kids, and I never heard him raise his voice at her, ever. This is a man who had a temper as bad as mine and could utterly destroy things in a single stroke of rage (including a few people who found out that he could punch them through plate glass). When it came to our mother and us, he held nothing but compassion (well... frustration at times).

When I grew up and saw how other people's parents behaved, it blew my mind. Certainly, the way couples behave in TV dramas and books is absolutely disgusting to me. "Family Guy" - while I can see some of the humor in it, is nothing more than an insult to the concept propagated to poison the minds of entire generations.

While it's true that there can be many functional relationships that aren't violent, abusive, or toxic - this is the "I am a 50 year old man or 35 year old woman and have run out of time" solution to the problem of having no heirs. It's... sad and tragic that we would reduce our families and our homes to such a utilitarian degree. True - at least it isn't the vile sewer propagated by media... but it's still a massive step backward in my estimation.



I mean... it just sounds like you're creating a Fem-Inner-Madara. Anything Madara bites his tongue over, she stands up and gives voice to, like Inner Sakura. You're saying that she's her own person... but everything is through the frame of Madara's views of a political system that he really didn't want much to do with in the first place. She's more or less a sort of Greek Chorus.

Which is about all she can be if she can't actually change events. I can see the scenario, quite easily, where she starts going off on Tobirama while he is around, and he acts to squelch her simply because he doesn't want to see the argument. He doesn't want the fight - but she does. I've seen similar in other couples, or even platonic relationships. When the "fireballs" of the group start going off and striking up an argument the ones uncomfortable with conflict wish to avoid... they either end up attacking the fireballs, themselves - or flat-out abandoning the conversation and getting angry at the hot-heads for 'creating an argument.'

This girl lights up Tobirama only to have Madara storm away from the group, then tell her that she's not helping issues; that he doesn't need her to fight his battles, and that he doesn't need or want someone to create more conflict. Or... he tries to tell her to be quiet on the spot - and then she torches him, too.

She has to be a very combative personality where he has to be a very sympathetic personality... and the two are just not on the same wavelength. While Madara's fighting style may be very aggressive and overpowering, his actual presence works out to be more insular and reserved. He prefers to bite his tongue until a problem gets to a point where he's willing to blow up the planet to put an end to it, and he is very hard-headed about that way of living.



This really depends upon exactly how the scenario unfolds and how effective she is at talk-no-jutsu. Typically, attacking your partner's friend(s) in front of them is an invitation to fight your partner, as well. If I were to get a wife and then tell her that one of her friends is a scum-guzzling, tailpipe huffing, chalkboard screecher - right or wrong, then I am probably going to end up having two women trying to slap at me, even if my hypothetical wife would agree with me in private. It doesn't mean I can't do it... or that I wouldn't... but it's "cruising for a bruising" as they used to say.

If she were truly the more diplomatic type, then I would say that she would wait for a moment when the two men were apart from each other and then try to explain why one feels the way they do to the other, or to give a condemnation of their opinion/behavior. Unless Madara is the type who seeks validation from his partner if a dispute is unfolding between him and another. Some people are like that - they get irritated when their partner isn't acting as a proverbial Greek Chorus, but I don't really see that in Madara.
This girl lights up Tobirama only to have Madara storm away from the group, then tell her that she's not helping issues; that he doesn't need her to fight his battles, and that he doesn't need or want someone to create more conflict. Or... he tries to tell her to be quiet on the spot - and then she torches him, too.

I'm actually glad you pointed out all these problems. It makes the relation between them more realistic.
But really...I'm not much interested in knowing what will happen to Naruto plot. Why you think that Madara wouldn't appreciate a political ally?

And btw: how you think that Tajima would behave towards such girl? Considering she saved Izuna and despises Tobirama for being such a bitter bigoted politician and warns everyone of Hashirama being a puppet? But after all she is powerful on her own. She is a successful militar leader, but has not a commoner background, but rather: a poor one.

Could you please describe what goes on Tajima's mind? The same for Butsuma, please.

So... how would Madara interact with someone who held a Stalinist and Suffraggette view? Tobirama seemed to hold views and patterns of behavior very similar to Stalin. Stalin espoused the State/Nation over the individual or the family.... hard core, at that, too. To a younger Madara who was being made subject to that view of a State that was anything other than Uchiha... he would probably be rather hostile to it. It would take some rather delicate positioning on her part to get Madara to agree to the notion she was expressing a fair view. If anything - he really wouldn't want much to do with the politics, and would probably 'let that be her thing'... right up until he was unhappy with things.

Nice!

I can also see him let that be "her thing". As you said he isn't much the long speech politician type.

Also: I expressed myself badly again. She is much more like Stalin when it comes to war. And only war. In peace she "cools down" and assumes a suffragette stance - a more "insular one" too. That's one of her defects: in peace she starts caring too much for what only she cares. Fearing it will be eventually destroyed by treacherous beings like Tobirama.

For example, if he was the Hokage, would he expect the other families to set aside their own personal views of their family and unite under his directives? Or would he be more in favor of councils and the ability for clans to manage their own affairs? I get the sense that he would actually have a bit of a double-standard by nature, favoring the Uchiha being able to do their own thing when he is not the Hokage, and then expecting every other clan to step in line with his guidance after he becomes Hokage.

I guess he would be acting as with the double standart as you said. But different from Tobirama, he still doesn't have the villagers support. As for her talk no jutsu as you mentioned. Well she is the kind that records everything that Tobirama says in secret than shows everything to the Uchiha Clan.Anddd....tells of the horrors of Edo Tensei.

In this situation Is Izuna happy in your opinion? Let's consider he isn't dead.lol

Last question: how you think the daimyo, elders and Hashirama would think of her? Is she dangerous, a future ally?
 

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Edit : I made a detail answer my internet crashed :( I ll write it again

Well i think i like mitos character here its great you involve her more into the story. I would want see more politics side as well.

Hashirama would be more cautious person , he knows she has a job of secret agent and her being commoner and madara perhaps is from nobel clan he would want her not to pursue him. You would remember this is classist society . Even great leaders in the past were classist even the likes of Napoleone , Churchill they mostly were. XD

Ican see you make something of another game of throne kind of series. The story looks great . I am curious what is the future plot .
Sorry for the late feedback! This book and analysis are long and complex -and are taking much of my time!

So here it goes: Hashirama reaally would be the type that would look at her like this - 2nd,4th and 6th panel (after she denounces Tobirama's bigotry and Edo Tensei etc - much like aristocracy in the late 1800's) (and yes, she does it because she was able to record everything with her spy abilities -even though being quite good at close combat just as much as Hashirama and Madara)

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Let's just say she does have a commoner background, but still has a good bloodline: much like people who lost everything at WW1.

In your opinion and by what you were told: what are the pros and cons of having her help? And how Tajima and Butsuma would see her?
Would Tajima dare to betray her -considering the databook stated him as cruel?

Also: Would Madara want her to be a BFF (considering she saved Izuna's life one time) and include her in nice friendly chats, or he would tell her "I can fight my own battles"?

And thanks! :) Politics are the main focus in this story, so you won't be let down XD
 

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Sorry for the late feedback! This book and analysis are long and complex -and are taking much of my time!

So here it goes: Hashirama reaally would be the type that would look at her like this - 2nd,4th and 6th panel (after she denounces Tobirama's bigotry and Edo Tensei etc - much like aristocracy in the late 1800's) (and yes, she does it because she was able to record everything with her spy abilities -even though being quite good at close combat just as much as Hashirama and Madara)

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Let's just say she does have a commoner background, but still has a good bloodline: much like people who lost everything at WW1.

In your opinion and by what you were told: what are the pros and cons of having her help? And how Tajima and Butsuma would see her?
Would Tajima dare to betray her -considering the databook stated him as cruel?

Also: Would Madara want her to be a BFF (considering she saved Izuna's life one time) and include her in nice friendly chats, or he would tell her "I can fight my own battles"?

And thanks! :) Politics are the main focus in this story, so you won't be let down XD
sorry i was away ya madara wouldnt initially befriend easily. He might thank her for saving her brothers life but madara wouldnt become friend easily he is guy wwho likes to keep himself . It would be great if you establish some incident before izuna incident.

I would want their relationship known in past like she was madaras classmate in high school or college . They could not befriend because she was a commoners and he is aristocrat son.

The izuna incident should be turning point for their friendship. Either way would like to hear your idea how will you establish both of them have friendship because it will pivotal and important part in your story.
 

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tbh i feel like Madara would love tsunade if she wasnt senju.
her strong willed, pwerful personality seems like it would be able to handle madz, and her style would be perfect for his type of char.
(sakura, sasuke).. (lel)
 

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In the last negotiation her and Tobirama got in the conflict and like she said " This guy really gets on my nervs, i should finish him of with my deadly no jutsu" lol

Since she saved Izuna life, and in at the end of negotiation from my previous quote - Madara did ask her to join his clan and meet his father , so even if she isnt royal she is now part of the Uchiha clan along side with Madara and Izuna and sharinga the close power to them. So she have every right to negotiate

Madara's mother would only say one thing " Take care of my son, cause he is troublemaker " Madara smiles again
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and the girl says, you dont have to worry mam' i will take care him".
❈❈❂✯Hello! Your views are being quite helpful in developing successful scenarios in the book! Thanks!❈❈❂✯

Could you help me with some more?

My doubts lies on what Hashirama thinks of the girl (like when she denounces Tobirama's bigotry and tells he is a puppet in his brothers hands).

And could you please imagine what the 4 brothers of Madara would say to her (they are at their 20's and 30's) right after she saves Izuna (she is still hitting the 20's)? In my canon story one of them is quite playful and says "hey girl, I'm so thankful you were there for Izuna. Madara could only put water lololol"


And would Ashina (this guy here- leader of Uzumaki
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and Tobirama confront Madara about her? (Well, we suppose they have quite good reason for that, will Madara and Izuna shut her up in your opinion?)
 

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tbh i feel like Madara would love tsunade if she wasnt senju.
her strong willed, pwerful personality seems like it would be able to handle madz, and her style would be perfect for his type of char.
(sakura, sasuke).. (lel)
Ya i had that same thinking as well . I just think he hated her because of her being hashirama's bloodline overall i dont think he never really loathed her if she was uchiha he would have really admired her abilities .
 
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