Yata Mirror VS. Kamui

[Avery Uchiha]

Post #52

How does one kamui themself if they have no target location to focus their chakra on?

Well because they don't need to focus chakra on themselves it's inside them already, and Kamui would teleport away the Shield, then the Susano'o and finally Itachi/Sasuke,

 

[S A G E]

Kakashi's Kamui is long distance and instant KO.

Kamui > Yata Mirror

 

[fastrthnwind]

??? Of course he needs the eye, this is a mangekyou ability we're talking about.. but just like sharingan genjutsu, the chakra is propelled out through the eye...

It would be impossible for the chakra itself to operate under the properties of space time when no jutsu has been initalized

You cant cast genjutsu on yourself, however with kamui you can....

This right here just spoke volumes.....

 

[Lilt]

Dont use the movie as canon evidence

Just take a step back. In the movie Kishimoto wrote, where Obito from our Narutoverse travels into genjutsu.

The illusory Itachi instantly deduces Kamui's weakness, and Obito says "You're a troublesome guy here, too..."

And then he backs out. That is a precendent that should not be ignored by the unprejudiced.

And aside from that, just think about it. Obito teleports and Itachi doesn't. Which one could effortlessly avoid conflict?

and anyways obito called itachi "troublesome" with MS

He called him many things. Among his many statements was "constantly amazing."

 

[Owarij]

Dont use the movie as canon evidence, and anyways obito called itachi "troublesome" with MS, while on the other hand he called shikamaru "regrettable" with his rinnegan.



You cant cast genjutsu on yourself, however with kamui you can....

Answered, the mechanics of obito's and kakashi's kamui and different entirely, Idk if kakashi is able to do the same as him, but if Kakashi wants to teleport himself, he needs only put a barrier right in front of himself... Idk if he can channel the chakra through his body like Obito

Well because they don't need to focus chakra on themselves it's inside them already, and Kamui would teleport away the Shield, then the Susano'o and finally Itachi/Sasuke,

This guy gets it, well the first part..

 

[fastrthnwind]

Answered, the mechanics of obito's and kakashi's kamui and different entirely, Idk if kakashi is able to do the same as him, but if Kakashi wants to teleport himself, he needs only put a barrier right in front of himself... Idk if he can channel the chakra through his body like Obito

If it was right in front of him, then how come whenever he uses it on himself that he goes right into his own eye?

Answer: The eye itself is what causes him to summon the s/t barrier, therefore it is logical to say that the eye can cause a barrier to appear anywhere kakashi wants it to.

 

[Draphsin]

Well because they don't need to focus chakra on themselves it's inside them already, and Kamui would teleport away the Shield, then the Susano'o and finally Itachi/Sasuke,

Yeah but Owarij was comparing it to genjutsu, which you cant cast on yourself either. If chakra needed to be transferred from eye to target then its impossible to kamui yourself, because you dont have a target.

Just take a step back. In the movie Kishimoto wrote, where Obito from our Narutoverse travels into genjutsu.

The illusory Itachi instantly deduces Kamui's weakness, and Obito says "You're a troublesome guy here, too..."

And then he backs out. That is a precendent that should not be ignored by the unprejudiced.

And aside from that, just think about it. Obito teleports and Itachi doesn't. Which one could effortlessly avoid conflict?



He called him many things. Among his many statements was "constantly amazing."

You missed the part where he called shikamaru troublesome with his rinnegan implant and gedo mazou. If you think that Itachi is a threat to obito then you agree that shikamaru is an even bigger threat.

 

[Flawž]

The manga and especially the movie Kishimoto wrote made it clear that Itachi was willing to fight Obito.

But that Obito (wisely) chose not to fight him. Hence Obito can teleport away (from 5 Kages, Itachi, etc.) but Itachi cannot.

but itachi never made a move on obito? It was obvious that Itachi was scared that obito would of killed him and itachi wouldn't have given sasuke his eyes.

 

[Draphsin]

Answered, the mechanics of obito's and kakashi's kamui and different entirely, Idk if kakashi is able to do the same as him, but if Kakashi wants to teleport himself, he needs only put a barrier right in front of himself... Idk if he can channel the chakra through his body like Obito

This guy gets it, well the first part..

That doesnt make sense, by your logic kamui needs a target to be casted upon, they cant just "summon" a barrier in front of themselves. That goes against your entire argument because you compared it to genjutsu, which can not be casted on oneself.

 

[Owarij]

The eye doesn't summon the barrier.. even the databook outright states that the chakra used decides the size etc of the barrier.. meaning the eye "summons" the chakra, the amount used etc is decided by the user , and the location is dependent on the user as well...Kakashi warps into his eye simply means he initializes and uses it without any propelling necessary

That doesnt make sense, by your logic kamui needs a target to be cated upon, they cant just "summon" a barrier in front of themselves. That goes against your entire argument because you compared it to genjutsu, which can not be casted on oneself.

...You're misunderstanding me.. the only part I compared with genjutsu is the fact that the chakra is propelled to a location or person... and I was referring to KAKASHI'S kamui... Obito hasn't been shown to utilize kamui like that..

 

[tell it all]

Yata blocks physical attcks Kumai isn't physical nuff said.

 

[Lilt]

You missed the part where he called shikamaru troublesome with his rinnegan implant and gedo mazou. If you think that Itachi is a threat to obito then you agree that shikamaru is an even bigger threat.

"Regrettable" and "troublesome" are not synonyms. And besides that, in context, Shikamaru is leading a five-nation army against him with dat giant brain. So even if you think he meant Shikamaru was troublesome, I'd ask you if you'd think the same thing if it were truly a one on one situation. I kind of doubt it.

but itachi never made a move on obito?

We don't know that. We do know that Obito could effortlessly teleport away if he did though.

And besides, Itachi calling Obito "pathetic" and Obito calling Itachi "amazing" doesn't paint equality.

When you think about it, Obito didn't even show himself to Akatsuki members until after Itachi died.

Yata blocks physical attcks Kumai isn't physical nuff said.

Nowhere is it said that the Yata Mirror is limited to physical attacks. "Completely invincible" doesn't imply as much.

And the databook straight says, multiple times, that it can plot attacks that aren't physical, too...

 

[Draphsin]

"Regrettable" and "troublesome" are not synonyms. And besides that, in context, Shikamaru is leading a five-nation army against him with dat giant brain. So even if you think he meant Shikamaru was troublesome, I'd ask you if you'd think the same thing if it were truly a one on one situation.

I know that, regrettable is worse than troublesome.

Okay, in context, Itachi had the entire akatsuki, not only that but he possesses genjutsu, which was the only thing that could harm obito at the time (because he was a ghost).

Now in context with shikamaru, obito had the gedo mazou at his back, and the rinnegan. For obito to call him "regrettable" is a huge hype boost for shikamaru, if you believe Itachi was a threat that is.

 

[Lilt]

I know that, regrettable is worse than troublesome.

It would be "regrettable" for me to fight my three year old niece. But not "troublesome." See?

Okay, in context, Itachi had the entire akatsuki

Come again?

not only that but he possesses genjutsu, which was the only thing that could harm obito at the time (because he was a ghost).

Maybe.

 

[Avery Uchiha]

The mirror is stated as invincible, also since it's part of the Susano'o wouldn't the user be able to just reform it?

 

[Owarij]

Yata blocks physical attcks Kumai isn't physical nuff said.

Yata itself isn't even physical....it has no real physical form, it can be on whatever plane is needed.. totsuka, like the shinigami can make contact with souls...

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Material, astral, physical and material.. that's all types of attacks

as·tral
/ˈastrəl/
Adjective
Of or relating to a supposed nonphysical realm of existence.

 

[fastrthnwind]

The eye doesn't summon the barrier.. even the databook outright states that the chakra used decides the size etc of the barrier.. meaning the eye "summons" the chakra, the amount used etc is decided by the user , and the location is dependent on the user as well...Kakashi warps into his eye simply means he initializes and uses it without any propelling necessary



...You're misunderstanding me.. the only part I compared with genjutsu is the fact that the chakra is propelled to a location or person... and I was referring to KAKASHI'S kamui... Obito hasn't been shown to utilize kamui like that..

The eye doesn't summon the chakra. the person does. It goes into the eye, which is then consumed by the eye to activate the technique. The size is determined by the amount of chakra used and the location is dependent on the user's focus.

You just contradicted yourself by saying he doesn't need to propel it when earlier you stated that he propelled a barrior in front of himself so that he could warp into it.

Yata itself isn't even physical....it has no real physical form, it can be on whatever plane is needed.. totsuka, like the shinigami can make contact with souls...

Material, astral, physical and material.. that's all types of attacks

Kamui is outside the realm of physical/astral.

 

[Owarij]

You just contradicted yourself by saying he doesn't need to propel it when earlier you stated that he propelled a barrior in front of himself so that he could warp into it.

You asked How can kakashi teleport himself.. I told you, he can make a barrier right infront himself and warp himself in.. you said he warps into his eye.. then that means he made the barrier in his eye itself.. since he didn't need to send the chakra anywhere.. he initialized the jutsu with the chakra already there and activated.. what part of that is a contradiction?

Kamui is outside the realm of physical/astral.

That makes no sense, the barrier itself is made of chakra and once made is no longer a material entity.. hence it becomes an attack without a physical state..thus astral/spiritual

 

[Draphsin]

...You're misunderstanding me.. the only part I compared with genjutsu is the fact that the chakra is propelled to a location or person... and I was referring to KAKASHI'S kamui... Obito hasn't been shown to utilize kamui like that..

@Bold: exactly my point, that goes against your argument.

& kakashi has been shown to kamui himself entirely, it even demonstrates that the barrier originated from his eye.

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Another thing I wanna point out, how does one kamui weapons from the dimension if the barrier isnt casted from the eye, and onto a target?

 

[fastrthnwind]

You asked How can kakashi teleport himself.. I told you, he can make a barrier right infront himself and warp himself in.. you said he warps into his eye.. then that means he made the barrier in his eye itself.. since he didn't need to send the chakra anywhere.. he initialized the jutsu with the chakra already there and activated.. what part of that is a contradiction?

That would mean that he wouldn't need to propel the chakra in order to use Kamui on himself, even if he made just in front of himself. You are implying that he doesn't need to propel chakra to use on himself if he is only putting the barrier directly in front of himself, when by your definition it has to travel "some" distance anyways.

The barrier summoning originates from his eye, and because of that he can project the barrier from the eye wherever he wants to by focusing on any specific target.