[Discussion] Why Madara/Tobi CANNOT be Obito

[yondaimeminato]

before madara and danzo had their confrontation this is what peole used to think.....

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but when the true was showed they felt so stupid.. people are always making stupid theories -,-" it really irate me

kakashi every once a blue moon goes and visit the grave of rin and obito!!

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and it was a valuable theory until of course it was proven wrong. I am not going to make fun of those people that came up with that idea like you are. I actually find it very creative. At least they try to test their imagination. Which is why it's called a theory. They don't have to be right. Your assumption that madara is in his former body is just another theory as well. Just like madara is in the fourth mizukages body, it's another theory.

that's not a grave. It's more like a memorial stone for all the people that died during the third war. Why bring a picture of an anime tv show. this is manga.

at the end everything will be confirmed. Don't worry about that, kishi will make sure that everything becomes clear. I will repeat again, only kishi can say whether the theory is wrong or not and who madara truly is.

 

[Konoha Rokudaime]

If I were Madara and had the power to shift to others body, instead of choosing a weak Shinobi, body heavily crush like Obito, I'll choose someone who got better body, who got more strength.

Before Danzo's abilties was revealed, there were some people who come with an idea like Danzo is Tobi. After Danzo was killed, those people keep mum. About Tobi, Obito and Madara stuff, time will tell. Any way, we can have different opinions. It's fun. If we all have the same opinion, it'll be very boring. Sometimes, having fun and debates make it worth to read.

Lastly, I like to add one thing. Even among Akatsuki, Madara was known to only Nagato, Zetsu, Konan and Itachi.

 

[3vil]

im thinkin tho
where are ppl getting there facts
"obito was gifted enought to awaken the MS"
he died during the same ark he awakened the standard sharingan

its true hard work comes into play in awakening the MS i believe
but theres no way of knowing an MS' abilities until its unlocked as far as im aware
and unless both kakashi an madara use the EXACT same jutsu for the dimension warp
they r not the same
SIMILAR maybe

ppl r word their THEORIES as if they have some phantom spoiler in bookmarks

sasuke wernt born at the time of obito and itachi was a child at the time so theres no connection to be made there
and if madara lasted so long within needing another body until he supposedly comes across an Uchiha under a pile of rocks why did he feel the need to dig him up

also

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im sure eye techniques of this calibur dnt need hand signs
is that proof enough that some techniques dnt come with awakening the eye they need to be mastered???

 

[Mino]

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hey guys! hey guys listen! you guys! i got a theory!! this theory is great. it is great I tell you!!! :O:O I mean. like u know. you know Obito right?? from Naruto right? he was supposedly crushed by a GIANT rock, but you guys! listen u guys... what is madara was around with zetsu and did some hokus pokus to obitos body and healed it?? what do you guys think u guys? and then madara transferred his mind and his superGREAT chakra to obitos crushed body and grew it for the lulz?? what do you guys think. u guys listen! you cant find any proof NOT to believe in this theory, but if so u are automatically dumb and close minded and STUPID.. cause I say so. LOGIC does not exist in this manga and therefore Obito is alive I mean u guys listen. come on listen u guys! obitos body was only halfway crushed and the bodies in this world is much more resilient to the REAL world.. come on u guys just listen......

man why cant people let dead people remain dead??

 

[yondaimeminato]

If I were Madara and had the power to shift to others body, instead of choosing a weak Shinobi, body heavily crush like Obito, I'll choose someone who got better body, who got more strength.

Before Danzo's abilties was revealed, there were some people who come with an idea like Danzo is Tobi. After Danzo was killed, those people keep mum. About Tobi, Obito and Madara stuff, time will tell. Any way, we can have different opinions. It's fun. If we all have the same opinion, it'll be very boring. Sometimes, having fun and debates make it worth to read.

Lastly, I like to add one thing. Even among Akatsuki, Madara was known to only Nagato, Zetsu, Konan and Itachi.

what makes you think madara would be able to get a better body with more strength?

After the battle of the first, you don't know that madara was in perfect condition as to take a strong body. Do you think is just going and saying "hi, I am madara give me your body, it's all over for you" to a strong person? Usually strong people have strong ties with their certain countries. If something were to happen to them, their village would of course try to search for him or find out what happened. this would compromise madara and his plans.

You don't know whether madara was still strong after the battle of the first. All we know is that madara didn't appear until the third war ended. He was finally able to summon the nine tail demon but the fourth hokage stopped him. He had to plenty of opportunities to summon the nine tails ever since the first died. He would have summon the nine tail demon when konoha was busy fighting in the war or something. All he needed was to summon the nine tail demon while everyone else was busy and it would have been over for konoha. Why didn't he take that opportunity? The only reason I can come up for this, it's that madara was weakened and that he wasn't even able to summon the nine tail demon or even control it.

He wasn't in a position where he could just get the perfect body he wants.

 

[KaedaUchiha]

Well, Madara/Tobi can't be Obito because Obito was killed by a giant rock and if that one rock didn't do the trick he was crushed by hundreds of others. So yeah. Madara is Madara which is Tobi ^^

 

[yondaimeminato]

im thinkin tho
where are ppl getting there facts
"obito was gifted enought to awaken the MS"
he died during the same ark he awakened the standard sharingan

its true hard work comes into play in awakening the MS i believe
but theres no way of knowing an MS' abilities until its unlocked as far as im aware
and unless both kakashi an madara use the EXACT same jutsu for the dimension warp
they r not the same
SIMILAR maybe

ppl r word their THEORIES as if they have some phantom spoiler in bookmarks

sasuke wernt born at the time of obito and itachi was a child at the time so theres no connection to be made there
and if madara lasted so long within needing another body until he supposedly comes across an Uchiha under a pile of rocks why did he feel the need to dig him up

also

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im sure eye techniques of this calibur dnt need hand signs
is that proof enough that some techniques dnt come with awakening the eye they need to be mastered???

It's obito's sharingan. Obito's sharingan eye was able to reach MS level something that a lot of uchiha failed to achieve. Only madara, his brother, itachi and sasuke were able to awaken it. So you it's a very rare level for an uchiha to achieve.

Madara uses his MS at a higher level than kakashi. Lately kakashi has been able to take large objects to another dimension. Like the bolt that sasuke shoot from his susano. It was big and fast but kakashi was still able to send it elsewhere. Knowing madara experience, I would expect him to use his MS a lot better than kakashi. Probably he didn't know what MS power he would have gotten from Obito's eye. But what he got from his eye, he liked it and he has been using it a lot lately. Probably because he knows that he is close in getting the perfect body that he desired all his life with EMS. He is aiming for sasuke's body and EMS and the ten tail demon. I would assume that in order to control the ten tail demon, he would need a strong body and sharingan. Sasuke is perfect for this.

MS also requires for the user to have killed your closest friend to achieve. I didn't see kakashi killing any of his friends and I don't think he would have done so.

I brought up a connection with sasuke for just an example to support that things like fixing bodies, reviving people, making the dead walk, transfering souls etc etc can happen in naruto manga.

He performed a handseal because he needed to revive a lot of people.

He is him doing it w/o handseal for just one body.

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[yondaimeminato]

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hey guys! hey guys listen! you guys! i got a theory!! this theory is great. it is great I tell you!!! :O:O I mean. like u know. you know Obito right?? from Naruto right? he was supposedly crushed by a GIANT rock, but you guys! listen u guys... what is madara was around with zetsu and did some hokus pokus to obitos body and healed it?? what do you guys think u guys? and then madara transferred his mind and his superGREAT chakra to obitos crushed body and grew it for the lulz?? what do you guys think. u guys listen! you cant find any proof NOT to believe in this theory, but if so u are automatically dumb and close minded and STUPID.. cause I say so. LOGIC does not exist in this manga and therefore Obito is alive I mean u guys listen. come on listen u guys! obitos body was only halfway crushed and the bodies in this world is much more resilient to the REAL world.. come on u guys just listen......

man why cant people let dead people remain dead??

LOL dude that made me laughed. you did it beautifully

I don't want to make anyone believe in this theory, that's their personal choice. You believe what you want but you can't tell people that the theory has no chance of being right as if you are kishi himself. Or you don't have the authority to say if the theory doesn't work until it has been proven wrong by kishi in his chapters. I will be honest with you and i will tell you that this theory has at least 20 percent of being right and 80 percent of being wrong. That 20 percent makes this theory valid. The 15 percent comes from the fact that you can't prove who madara truely is until he takes out that mask and states his true identity. He is obviously hiding his identity and doesn't want anyone to know who he truly is. Only 5 percent comes from my evidence of proving that madara(tobi) is obito.

Why do i do this?

because it's debatable
Heck I got like 68+ post counts just debating
It's fun
I like to take risks
I am an open minded person who tries to go beyond of what the story is saying.
I am learning about naruto from this
The more people debate with me, the more I learn
I get to meet people who are good debaters

 

[niblack89]

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hey guys! hey guys listen! you guys! i got a theory!! this theory is great. it is great I tell you!!! :O:O I mean. like u know. you know Obito right?? from Naruto right? he was supposedly crushed by a GIANT rock, but you guys! listen u guys... what is madara was around with zetsu and did some hokus pokus to obitos body and healed it?? what do you guys think u guys? and then madara transferred his mind and his superGREAT chakra to obitos crushed body and grew it for the lulz?? what do you guys think. u guys listen! you cant find any proof NOT to believe in this theory, but if so u are automatically dumb and close minded and STUPID.. cause I say so. LOGIC does not exist in this manga and therefore Obito is alive I mean u guys listen. come on listen u guys! obitos body was only halfway crushed and the bodies in this world is much more resilient to the REAL world.. come on u guys just listen......

man why cant people let dead people remain dead??

LMAFo I died looking at that

Why bring back Orbito he died a hero and gave Kakashi his shraingan for him to see the future and last time I checked Orbito loved his village, clan and his teacher why destroy all

Tobi is actually Uchiha Kagami, as we see Tobi is old he's old. This guy should be old he was in team Tobirama so he has connections with the elders, that how he knows the secrets of the Uchiha massacre also he was alive when Madara and Hashirama fought and know of the world before the village system and the only Uchiha we have seen that is unaccounted for also look at the eye brows.

Spoiler

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JK bout the eye brows.

 

[yondaimeminato]

LMAFo I died looking at that

Why bring back Orbito he died a hero and gave Kakashi his shraingan for him to see the future and last time I checked Orbito loved his village, clan and his teacher why destroy all

Naruto loves his village but he still had a dark side inside of him

Rin would have triggered obito's hatred toward the village since obito would have given away his life for her. He loved her.

 

[yondaimeminato]

Well, Madara/Tobi can't be Obito because Obito was killed by a giant rock and if that one rock didn't do the trick he was crushed by hundreds of others. So yeah. Madara is Madara which is Tobi ^^

If madara is just tobi then it would be boring. He has to be someone important. Plus he is wearing a mask, be has been wearing a mask for a long time now. When madara met with itachi he was with a mask even though itachi knew that he was madara.


*Splitting Earth Force Jutsu* This might have actually helped him.

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This one is similar to that jutsu. What it would look like afterwards

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[niblack89]

Naruto loves his village but he still had a dark side inside of him

Rin would have triggered obito's hatred toward the village since obito would have given away his life for her. He loved her.

So does Kakashi he would have lost his mother, father, Orbito, Rin and Minato and he is nominated as hokage. The lost of Rin shouldn't cause a hatred in his clan but for Minato and Kakashi for not protecting him but Tobi doesn't seem to hold a grudge against Kakashi, but tells him that his space-time jutsu would work on him.

 

[yondaimeminato]

LMAFo I died looking at that

Why bring back Orbito he died a hero and gave Kakashi his shraingan for him to see the future and last time I checked Orbito loved his village, clan and his teacher why destroy all

Tobi is actually Uchiha Kagami, as we see Tobi is old he's old. This guy should be old he was in team Tobirama so he has connections with the elders, that how he knows the secrets of the Uchiha massacre also he was alive when Madara and Hashirama fought and know of the world before the village system and the only Uchiha we have seen that is unaccounted for also look at the eye brows.

Spoiler

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JK bout the eye brows.

Yeah that would work. Since we don't a lot about him, you can make any assumptions to support your theory.

 

[yondaimeminato]

So does Kakashi he would have lost his mother, father, Orbito, Rin and Minato and he is nominated as hokage. The lost of Rin shouldn't cause a hatred in his clan but for Minato and Kakashi for not protecting him but Tobi doesn't seem to hold a grudge against Kakashi, but tells him that his space-time jutsu would work on him.

Probably because kakashi wasn't responsible for the death of Rin. Konoha was probably responsible for her death. We have seen how konoha started all of this. The massacre of the uchiha was because of konoha. Madara becoming who he is was because of the creation of konoha. Konoha started the hatred of nagato toward everyone by killing their parents and helping hanzou to kill yahiko (danzou). Right now, they are just fixing what konoha messed up.

Well, obito is different person from kakashi. Plus, I don't think obito has control over his body so he can't really refuse to madara. Madara has complete control over his body. He is sealed away like sasuke sealed away orochimaru.

 

[uhIpooped]

It's obito's sharingan. Obito's sharingan eye was able to reach MS level something that a lot of uchiha failed to achieve. Only madara, his brother, itachi and sasuke were able to awaken it. So you it's a very rare level for an uchiha to achieve.

So is this why Tobi told Sasuke that Uchiha's had been killing their friends to obtain MS for generations? It has never been stated that only 5 people ever had MS ...

 

[Narutofan123457]

LMAFo I died looking at that

Why bring back Orbito he died a hero and gave Kakashi his shraingan for him to see the future and last time I checked Orbito loved his village, clan and his teacher why destroy all

Tobi is actually Uchiha Kagami, as we see Tobi is old he's old. This guy should be old he was in team Tobirama so he has connections with the elders, that how he knows the secrets of the Uchiha massacre also he was alive when Madara and Hashirama fought and know of the world before the village system and the only Uchiha we have seen that is unaccounted for also look at the eye brows.

Spoiler

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JK bout the eye brows.

wow, it actually does seem like a good theory. I mean, they are both Uchihas, and that would explain how Danzo had a connection with him. We don't know anything about him, and that would also explain why Madara wanted him dead... he would be the only one who knew his secret. Also, maybe that's why Madara was soo suprised when kabuto showed him whatever he showed him in the coffin. maybe kabuto somehow found out, and that's why Tobi freaked out.

 

[niblack89]

Yeah that would work. Since we don't a lot about him, you can make any assumptions to support your theory.

Well that theory makes more since than a dead hero being Tobi and I posted my theory.

Well, obito is different person from kakashi. Plus, I don't think obito has control over his body so he can't really refuse to madara. Madara has complete control over his body. He is sealed away like sasuke sealed away orochimaru.

That makes much more since, but how did he enter Orbito's body especially since he was 2 seconds from death. That would give even Kakashi a true reason to fight Tobi.

 

[Konoha Rokudaime]

what makes you think madara would be able to get a better body with more strength?

After the battle of the first, you don't know that madara was in perfect condition as to take a strong body. Do you think is just going and saying "hi, I am madara give me your body, it's all over for you" to a strong person? Usually strong people have strong ties with their certain countries. If something were to happen to them, their village would of course try to search for him or find out what happened. this would compromise madara and his plans.

You don't know whether madara was still strong after the battle of the first. All we know is that madara didn't appear until the third war ended. He was finally able to summon the nine tail demon but the fourth hokage stopped him. He had to plenty of opportunities to summon the nine tails ever since the first died. He would have summon the nine tail demon when konoha was busy fighting in the war or something. All he needed was to summon the nine tail demon while everyone else was busy and it would have been over for konoha. Why didn't he take that opportunity? The only reason I can come up for this, it's that madara was weakened and that he wasn't even able to summon the nine tail demon or even control it.

He wasn't in a position where he could just get the perfect body he wants.

Indeed, Madara was weaken after his battle with the First. But even you dont how weak he was. Maybe he was too weak to fight the First but still strong enough to defeat someone stronger than Obito. All we can make is assumptions. You dont have enough proof to support your ideas neither do i. Like i've said, TIME WILL TELL.

I like to add one more thing. Nine Tails is not an animal which can be summoned easily even by Madara. Kuchiyose - poof, then it appears. No, no, no. Its not like that. Madara controls it by Genjutsu using his MS, that's all. We have little information about Tailed Beast. When the First distributes Tailed Beast, we don't know how much Konoha's share is, which Beast is. The same goes for the remaining 4 Villages. We still dont know why Madara was in The Mist Country, may be he was searching for 9 Tails, who knows? Like i've said, ALL WE CAN DO IS MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.

Also, its good to repect others' opinions even though it might contradict ours. PEACE

 

[yondaimeminato]

Indeed, Madara was weaken after his battle with the First. But even you dont how weak he was. Maybe he was too weak to fight the First but still strong enough to defeat someone stronger than Obito. All we can make is assumptions. You dont have enough proof to support your ideas neither do i. Like i've said, TIME WILL TELL.

I like to add one more thing. Nine Tails is not an animal which can be summoned easily even by Madara. Kuchiyose - poof, then it appears. No, no, no. Its not like that. Madara controls it by Genjutsu using his MS, that's all. We have little information about Tailed Beast. When the First distributes Tailed Beast, we don't know how much Konoha's share is, which Beast is. The same goes for the remaining 4 Villages. We still dont know why Madara was in The Mist Country, may be he was searching for 9 Tails, who knows? Like i've said, ALL WE CAN DO IS MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.

Also, its good to repect others' opinions even though it might contradict ours. PEACE

This is exactly what I have been trying to tell people that they should respect other's people theories no matter how much you don't like it or you don't think it would happen. Why go around making a thread that clearly says that those people who think tobi is obito are dumbass and that there is no possible way for obito to be madara. The possibility might be close to 0 but as long as there is at least 1 percent of possibility it's valid.

 

[yondaimeminato]

Well that theory makes more since than a dead hero being Tobi and I posted my theory.



That makes much more since, but how did he enter Orbito's body especially since he was 2 seconds from death. That would give even Kakashi a true reason to fight Tobi.

Well you don't know just how much time it would have taken for obito to die.