[Discussion] Why Madara/Tobi CANNOT be Obito

yondaimeminato · Jun 6, 2010

Kaziname said:
He wasn't abandoned. He asked them to leave so they can save themselves. There is no obvious reason for Obito to take revenge on world or Konoha...

the death of Rin. Obito risk his life for Rin. He even gave kakashi his eye so that he can take care of Rin and see the future for him. But what happened? Rin died anyways for unknown reason. We don't even know if Rin has her grave or how she died. This implies that konoha is keeping in secret the reason behind the death of Rin a secret. We have seen how konoha have been accountable for many disasters in the past and still creating up until now. I wouldn't be surprise if konoha was somewhat responsible for the death of Rin thus awakening Obito's inner dark side. No matter how good you are, there will always be a dark side inside of you. Naruto had one.

yondaimeminato · Jun 6, 2010

3vil said:
ur saying nagato was able to release the full power of the rinnegan so quickly after obito's death to be able to revive him.
even tho previous uses of the rinnegan were due to high emotion states
and even then it was destructive rage

madara could have schooled him but i dnt see him knowing the resurrection jutsu to teach him

and kakashi was dead wen talkin to his father jus not fully crossed over

madara using another body is plausible but i dnt see why the need to hang on to obito
after all he helped itachi deal with the whole clan, all them dead uchiha's wiv sharingans more advanced then wen obito died
and itachi did say madara is a SHELL of his former self, maybe he saw something

It's within his ocular powers, you don't need time to learn something like that. Sasuke was able to awaken susanoo w/o having a prior training.

So you agree as well that kakashi wasn't fully dead.

Well, obito's body just happened to be hosting the sharingan that is helping him teleport to dimensions and far distances. Plus it was young and madara didn't have to worry about getting into another body. By the time madara had met itachi, madara had already improved obito's eyes. Why would he need a sharingan that can't awaken MS? You do know that not every uchiha is able to awaken the MS. Only selected people can and obito happened to be one.

Yes, it's a way of itachi saying that it's no longer madara in his original body but in another body. I don't think itachi would know a lot about obito as to say that it wasn't obito in that body. Obito was like an outcast for uchiha because he was working with konoha.

And i think madara would be more than capable as to see if an uchiha is worthy or not... He chose obito because he knew that he had potential even though a lot of people didn't

kisamexRocks · Jun 6, 2010

One of the best threads ever created. I do not know why people cannot accept the fact the Madara is not Obito. And yet more people accept that Jiraiya has died, but when we get video proof of Obito dieing, we all go bananas and assume that he isn't dead. The only way I think he might be alive is if Zetsu saved him and reconstructed him. I know it's weird and possibly stupid, but the person that came up with the theory had some good points. Plus Obito said "I wish I had more time" So it could go both ways, his time is up or his time is just beginning. Makes more sense that Madara is Obito if you ask me.

Narutofan123457 · Jun 7, 2010

yondaimeminato said:
the death of Rin. Obito risk his life for Rin. He even gave kakashi his eye so that he can take care of Rin and see the future for him. But what happened? Rin died anyways for unknown reason. We don't even know if Rin has her grave or how she died. This implies that konoha is keeping in secret the reason behind the death of Rin a secret. We have seen how konoha have been accountable for many disasters in the past and still creating up until now. I wouldn't be surprise if konoha was somewhat responsible for the death of Rin thus awakening Obito's inner dark side. No matter how good you are, there will always be a dark side inside of you. Naruto had one.

ok, that MIGHT be one okay reason if it didn't contradict one thing. We don't have enough information about Rin to decide when she died. We can only assume that it would be sometime after Obito's death. If Zetsu had seen the battle and revived Obito afterward, why would Obito turn evil if Rin wasn't even dead yet? That makes no sense. He would run back to Konoha and rejoin his team... he wouldn't have any reason for revenge.... Your theory only works if Rin had died the same day/week as Obito, which more than likely isn't the case.

Narutofan123457 · Jun 7, 2010

griems said:
Jesus christ guys noone even says it Obito himself, it COULD be his body that is being used as a shell (does that word ring a bell) no matter what you say or how much ridiculous proof you manage to bring to the table it is still possible.

And no he wasn't crushed completely, just enough to not being able to move or he would instantly die - his head was fine, you just couldn't see his right side. Unless you're gonna tell me that the right side of his head was crushed but ofcourse he could still talk and think about giving someone his own eye because the left side was ok... yeah that makes sense :flaw:

/bonk

ok, fine. I never disagreed with Madara using Obito's body as a shell. I'm just saying that Tobi himself (body and mind) isn't Obito. Maybe for some random reason Madara chose to enter the vessel of a squashed, outcasted, 3rd rank Uchiha member instead of finding a better vessel to encase himself in...... no wait, it doesn't sound plausible either way.... why would Madara take the body of a low class, partially squashed, one eyed Obito? Just wondering why that could be the case? Couldn't Zetsu at least scoop up someone who had their body fully in tact and who had 2 eyes? If you can come up with one good reason, I will consider the theory that Madara is using Obito's body. Other than that, Obito HIMSELF is not Tobi. (oops, sorry for double posting...)

yondaimeminato · Jun 7, 2010

Narutofan123457 said:
ok, that MIGHT be one okay reason if it didn't contradict one thing. We don't have enough information about Rin to decide when she died. We can only assume that it would be sometime after Obito's death. If Zetsu had seen the battle and revived Obito afterward, why would Obito turn evil if Rin wasn't even dead yet? That makes no sense. He would run back to Konoha and rejoin his team... he wouldn't have any reason for revenge.... Your theory only works if Rin had died the same day/week as Obito, which more than likely isn't the case.

Exactly my point, I can come with any assumption and you won't have a thing against me to prove me wrong unless of course I go overboard. You don't know when exactly Rin died... We don't know yet that zetsu can fix damaged bodies or bring people to life. Obito was in a really bad shape, he was a dying body. It would take long time for madara to recover, fix and bring him back to life. You yourself said that he was crashed by rocks and that he has a messed up body. Do you think it would be easy to fix obito in a short time? And I am sure it would have taken a long time for obito to accept the fact that he is indeed still alive. We have seen how madara can wash people minds. He washed sasuke's way of thinking really way because before madara talked to him. Sasuke was thinking of going back to the village and live peacefully because he had accomplished his goal. But madara was able to change the way sasuke think of the konoha. The same thing would have done to Nagato. He brained wash him to the point that he changed nagato's point of view of the hatred in the world. Madara and Nagato had both different goals. I would assume that madara would have taken advantage of the death of Rin as a weapon to brain wash Obito's way of viewing konoha and friendship. We have seen madara being close to konoha which is why itachi was able to notice him because madara was always around konoha spying waiting for opportunities. Once the body of obito is fixed and brought back to life, I am sure madara would take the opportunity to begin the ceremony in order for him to transfer his soul from his former body to obito's body. Kinda like sasuke/orochimaru. Sasuke had orochimaru inside him and sasuke was suppressing him inside his body. Sasuke wasn't letting orochimaru take over his body. I would assume madara would do something like this with obito's body. After this obito would have no longer power over his body and it would be obito the who is being suppressed by madara. This would explain why obito wouldn't go back to konoha after recovering.

yondaimeminato · Jun 7, 2010

Narutofan123457 said:
ok, fine. I never disagreed with Madara using Obito's body as a shell. I'm just saying that Tobi himself (body and mind) isn't Obito. Maybe for some random reason Madara chose to enter the vessel of a squashed, outcasted, 3rd rank Uchiha member instead of finding a better vessel to encase himself in...... no wait, it doesn't sound plausible either way.... why would Madara take the body of a low class, partially squashed, one eyed Obito? Just wondering why that could be the case? Couldn't Zetsu at least scoop up someone who had their body fully in tact and who had 2 eyes? If you can come up with one good reason, I will consider the theory that Madara is using Obito's body. Other than that, Obito HIMSELF is not Tobi. (oops, sorry for double posting...)

What makes you think that madara would be capable enough to do something like this? Maybe madara was crippled from the battle from the first. You have seen that madara was stabbed in his body with a big sword. No matter how powerful his ocular powers were, his eyes didn't give him the power to fix himself up. It must have taken long time for him to even recover a little from the damage of the first. By that time his body was old and almost useless. He needed a replacement asap. You think that madara would have been able to take over an uchiha body at his current state? Obito just happened to be the only who used to stayed away from the clan village. He was basically a wipe open target for madara. While other uchiha were in their village with a lot other uchiha. I don't think madara had the powers to go to the uchiha clan and take a body for him. it's not that easy. Let's say someone mysteriously disappears from the uchiha clan. The uchiha clan would have freak out and try to find that body. It would compromise madara because he didn't want to get discovered yet. He was keeping himself hidden. So it would be ideal for him to take a young uchiha body that the uchiha wouldn't care about the disappearance of his body. Plus obito was crashed by rocks, making konoha think that obito was dead. They wouldn't search for him. It was perfect for madara. And it became even more perfect when he discover the ocular power that obito had. I don't think zetsu would have the power to take an uchiha. Specially uchihas who were inside the uchiha police force or connected. All the good uchiha were part of the uchiha police force. If zetsu was seen capturing someone from the uchiha, it would have caused a lot trouble for madara

Even in madara's current body, madara doesn't want to fight. Don't you think if madara would have gotten a better body, he would have capture the tail demons himself?

He already has a better body who he will transfer to and that's uchiha sasuke. I don't think madara will be able to control the ten tail demon in his current body. Madara is just waiting for sasuke to get weakened. He is probably hoping that naruto weakens sasuke so that he can transfer his soul to sasuke and take over him easily. This would explain why he has so much interest over sasuke. Madara isn't helping sasuke for nothing, he wants to do something with sasuke. He is protecting sasuke as if sasuke was his own body. It would be a perfect body for him. A body with EMS and A body that it's strong and young. An what a coincidence, sasuke is just about the same age when madara took over obito's body.

starhuda · Jun 7, 2010

Madara\Tobi is just not Obito why can't you guys accept the fact.

yondaimeminato · Jun 7, 2010

starhuda said:
Madara\Tobi is just not Obito why can't you guys accept the fact.

because there are possibilities that lead to him or connections more than any other person

And because we like to stay open minded and look outside the box and not stay inside box.

We like to test our imagination and make assumption based on what happened in naruto manga.

Also it's not "fact" unless not until the true identity of madara is discovered. You do understand what's the meaning of the word "FACT" right?

I am not trying to change any bodies mind or point of view. You believe what you believe. What I don't like is that you guys come say things like "ROLF, STOP THINKING THAT MADARA IS OBITO" like you have some power or like you are kishi himself. Why would we listen to someone who is not kishi. They are not kishi to say something is this or that. We have the freedom to express our assumptions. They might be wrong but at least we gave a try and we look beyond the story of naruto manga. We didn't lock our doors on the idea of madara just being tobi. You are trying so hard to prove we are wrong but the truth is that you can't prove us wrong. You don't have the authority to prove anything wrong just like I don't have. I am here just to show this person who made this thread that anything he throws at me, I can come up with counters or I can prove him wrong. And you know why is this? because it hasn't been proved who madara(tobi) truely is. I don't intend to change your point of view. I could careless if you believe me or not but I do not appreciate you acting what you are not.

godzero · Jun 7, 2010

yondaimeminato said:
What makes you think that madara would be capable enough to do something like this? Maybe madara was crippled from the battle from the first. You have seen that madara was stabbed in his body with a big sword. No matter how powerful his ocular powers were, his eyes didn't give him the power to fix himself up. It must have taken long time for him to even recover a little from the damage of the first. By that time his body was old and almost useless. He needed a replacement asap. You think that madara would have been able to take over an uchiha body at his current state? Obito just happened to be the only who used to stayed away from the clan village. He was basically a wipe open target for madara. While other uchiha were in their village with a lot other uchiha. I don't think madara had the powers to go to the uchiha clan and take a body for him. it's not that easy. Let's say someone mysteriously disappears from the uchiha clan. The uchiha clan would have freak out and try to find that body. It would compromise madara because he didn't want to get discovered yet. He was keeping himself hidden. So it would be ideal for him to take a young uchiha body that the uchiha wouldn't care about the disappearance of his body. Plus obito was crashed by rocks, making konoha think that obito was dead. They wouldn't search for him. It was perfect for madara. And it became even more perfect when he discover the ocular power that obito had. I don't think zetsu would have the power to take an uchiha. Specially uchihas who were inside the uchiha police force or connected. All the good uchiha were part of the uchiha police force. If zetsu was seen capturing someone from the uchiha, it would have caused a lot trouble for madara

Even in madara's current body, madara doesn't want to fight. Don't you think if madara would have gotten a better body, he would have capture the tail demons himself?

He already has a better body who he will transfer to and that's uchiha sasuke. I don't think madara will be able to control the ten tail demon in his current body. Madara is just waiting for sasuke to get weakened. He is probably hoping that naruto weakens sasuke so that he can transfer his soul to sasuke and take over him easily. This would explain why he has so much interest over sasuke. Madara isn't helping sasuke for nothing, he wants to do something with sasuke. He is protecting sasuke as if sasuke was his own body. It would be a perfect body for him. A body with EMS and A body that it's strong and young. An what a coincidence, sasuke is just about the same age when madara took over obito's body.

HOW COME does madara know obito's ocular power (even when obito is still alive) when even OBITO HIMSELF can't use the third level of sharingan??

Ocular power of sharingan will be shown if those sharingan would become MS, isn't it?? and who is the obito's target to kill if he would activate his MS, anyway????

griems · Jun 7, 2010

godzero said:
HOW COME does madara know obito's ocular power (even when obito is still alive) when even OBITO HIMSELF can't use the third level of sharingan??

Ocular power of sharingan will be shown if those sharingan would become MS, isn't it?? and who is the obito's target to kill if he would activate his MS, anyway????

He knew Sasuke's potential for power aswel... and Kakashi is using his sharingan and guess what he uses the third level aswel, hell he's even using mangekyo. And its NOT Obito in control its Madara, and so far its the almost exact opposite defense from Kakashi's offensive MS power, now if this is just coincidence to you thats your choice. I think it's Obito's body for reasons stated by many people above.

yondaimeminato · Jun 7, 2010

godzero said:
HOW COME does madara know obito's ocular power (even when obito is still alive) when even OBITO HIMSELF can't use the third level of sharingan??

Ocular power of sharingan will be shown if those sharingan would become MS, isn't it?? and who is the obito's target to kill if he would activate his MS, anyway????

a better question how in the world did kakashi awaken his MS unless someone (the real user) awaken the MS power. Kakashi got his sharingan eye in second level. However, his supposedly dead sharingan eye was improving. He went to the third level of the sharingan. Then he went to MS level. Kakashi covers his sharingan most of time and doesn't want to use a lot. Kakashi didn't kill anyone dear to him or so to say.

Madara it's an uchiha. I would expect him to make obito's sharingan go MS level. Madara is not a man known to stay just with one ocular level. He will go until there is no more level to go to. Obito is no longer in command, madara is.

Obito is like sealed away from his body. Madara won the take over, there is nothing he can do take back his body from madara. Everytime he uses the same ocular power of kakashi madara's right eye doesn't show. Obito is no longer in control over his body, madara is. Madara would lose control over obito's body if kabuto summons him (soul) to the body that has taken the appearance of madara. Right now, madara is using Obito's MS as tool to teleport large distance. As a way to make dimensions. Somewhat where sasuke and karin were taken from the kage meeting so that karin would heal sasuke. A ocular power in the hands of a master like madara who knows how to use them, it's a deadly weapon. Danzou's subordinates were taken to unknown dimension or place (it's doesn't say where madara took them). That's one way he could use obito's ocular power.

kisamexRocks · Jun 8, 2010

yondaimeminato said:
a better question how in the world did kakashi awaken his MS unless someone (the real user) awaken the MS power. Kakashi got his sharingan eye in second level. However, his supposedly dead sharingan eye was improving. He went to the third level of the sharingan. Then he went to MS level. Kakashi covers his sharingan most of time and doesn't want to use a lot. Kakashi didn't kill anyone dear to him or so to say.

Kakashi uses his Sharingan and it upgrades through battle experience, you don't need to kill someone to unlock your MS. If a non uchiha like Kakashi was able to do it, so can any one else.

Madara it's an uchiha. I would expect him to make obito's sharingan go MS level. Madara is not a man known to stay just with one ocular level. He will go until there is no more level to go to. Obito is no longer in command, madara is.

Just because Madara is an uchiha doesn't mean he is able to make other users sharingan upgrade, it doesn't work that way. Madara has his own body, he doesn't need a childs body, Madara reached the max level of sharingan, there's nothing more at this time than the EMS. which Madara has. Thats right, obito is not in command, because he died.

Obito is like sealed away from his body. Madara won the take over, there is nothing he can do take back his body from madara. Everytime he uses the same ocular power of kakashi madara's right eye doesn't show. Obito is no longer in control over his body, madara is. Madara would lose control over obito's body if kabuto summons him (soul) to the body that has taken the appearance of madara. Right now, madara is using Obito's MS as tool to teleport large distance. As a way to make dimensions. Somewhat where sasuke and karin were taken from the kage meeting so that karin would heal sasuke. A ocular power in the hands of a master like madara who knows how to use them, it's a deadly weapon. Danzou's subordinates were taken to unknown dimension or place (it's doesn't say where madara took them). That's one way he could use obito's ocular power.

Obito is sealed away because the soul has left his body after he died. Madara's right eye is shown every time, it is his left eye that isn't shown. If Kabuto summons Obito's body, why would it take the shape or form of Madara? If a soul is taken from it's body and resurrected, it will show up as it's right body, not someone elses. Madara does not have Obito's ocular power, I don't understand why you would say that. His right eye was crushed by the boulder, his left eye was given to Kakashi, so there is no way Madara would use Obito's body in order to continue living so long.

Madara said that proof of his long existence or refusal to die is because of his chakra levels. Not his ability to steal bodies.

'-Hellknight-' · Jun 8, 2010

yondaimeminato said:
your *everybody knows* ends with me buddy, stop including me in ur little world of imagination. This is call going beyond the box and not staying in the box like most of you are. I am not the only one who thinks the same there are still other people who think the same way and it's only growing stronger because as the chapters advance there are more evidence that madara is using obito's body.

I know you hate to admit it but it is what it is boy

Dude your an idiot

why do you like making things up? from where do you get that madara is now using obito's body? are you one of those fan boy noobs that likes making up stupid conclusions and annoying theories?

men this irate me

yondaimeminato · Jun 8, 2010

Vasto lorde Hellknight said:
Dude your an idiot why do you like making things up? from where do you get that madara is now using obito's body? are you one of those fan boy noobs that likes making up stupid conclusions and annoying theories? men this irate me

can you come up with a better theory as to what madara's true identity is? And no I m not just making things up, all the things I have said I can back them up with events that occurred in naruto manga.

And no I am not a fan boy, I am just a person who is trying to tell people like you that you have no right to say who madara is unless of course you are kishi. Until we don't know the true identity of madara, the theory of obito possibly being madara(tobi) is still open. Theories don't have to be right. Theories are not expected to be true but they have possibility to be true but you guys are hardheaded to understand that don't you. If you can't even come up with a better theory as to who madara is why even criticize the people who have come up with the theory of obito being madara(tobi). We are not saying " he is, he is" because we can't confirm that madara is truly obito too just like you can't confirm that our theory is wrong.

Also I would like to see your conclusion then...

Why do I think madara (tobi) is obito?

The power of his ocular power is similar to kakashi's

Kakashi didn't kill anyone close to him as to awaken his MS. Hell I don't even think he can awaken MS because he is a non uchiha unless of course obito was able to awaken his MS.

Madara's two personalities. One is a playful personality and the other is a more serious person.

Madara having his sharingan on his right eye and it's unknown what eyes he has on his left or whether he has one at all.

Madara using his mask. Why would madara try to hide his identity if he is in another body

Madara said that it was time to take the rinnegan eye so I would say that the left side of his eye is empty to use the rinnegan in there. Sharingan on his right and rinnegan on his left.

I am sure I am going to get more prove as the chapters goes on.

'-Hellknight-' · Jun 8, 2010

dude your full of crap remember that danzo had his sharingan on his Right eye? look i ain't going to argue. your saying something that has not been confirm and your backup is that madara have his sharingan on his right eye.. that dont mean nothing because like i said danzo had it on his right eye as well. and how can you compare kakashi with madara...? dude seriously your full of crap. madara is not obito THE REASON WHY YOU THINK THAT IS BECAUSE THE FAKE NAME TOBI THATS WHY YOU THINK THAT IS OBITO.

aro234 · Jun 8, 2010

i kinda do think that obito is still alive

'-Hellknight-' · Jun 8, 2010

aro234 said:
i kinda do think that obito is still alive

before madara and danzo had their confrontation this is what peole used to think.....

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but when the true was showed they felt so stupid.. people are always making stupid theories -,-" it really irate me

kakashi every once a blue moon goes and visit the grave of rin and obito!!

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yondaimeminato · Jun 8, 2010

kisamexRocks said:
Kakashi uses his Sharingan and it upgrades through battle experience, you don't need to kill someone to unlock your MS. If a non uchiha like Kakashi was able to do it, so can any one else.