[Discussion] Why Madara/Tobi CANNOT be Obito

[Narutofan123457]

Lately, a lot of people have been posting trying to give reasons for the theory that Madara/Tobi is actually Obito. I'd like to explain why there is no possible way that this could be the case.

1. Obito was crushed under a huge boulder. Kakashi took one eye and the other eye was crushed. So far, we have seen Madara with at least one sharingan that was recognizable as THE SHARINGAN. This would be impossible had it been Obito.

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2.Kisame clearly recognized Madara as being MADARA. Madara is a lot older than Obito. Even when he 'died' he was still probably ten years older. Kisame wouldn't have recognized him as the Mizukage/Madara had he been a fake.

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3. Even if Obito was still alive (which he's not), why would he want to bring harm and destruction to the world? Isn't Obito the one who always cared about protecting bonds, and peace, and love? That doesn't sound like an insane, world-controlling, wackjob whose sole goal in life is to reek havock on the world with the ultimate jutsu...

4. Itachi knew Madara's face. Just because Obito has the same haircut now doesn't make him Madara. Look at the facts. Obito is dead and he would also have no intuition to harm people randomly.

5. Tobi/Madara faced Kakashi when they were fighting each other. If we look back in the manga, there have been a large number of instances where Kishi forshadows things by making the characters say things that seem odd. Don't you think if Obito had seen Kakashi and his sharingan, he would have made a comment? As soon as Kakashi sees the sharingan, Madara up and leaves.

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6. How would Obito know all of the info Madara knows (Juubi, Kyuubi attack, etc)? Only a very select number of people (Kages?, Sage of 6 paths, and MADARA) knew about it. Why did Madara know? Because he's old and wise enough to know. He knows the history of everything because he was alive when the nations were still being formed and got the information. Obito would have NO way of knowing any of this. Also, it has been pretty clarified that Madara controlled the kyuubi into attacking Konoha. Obito wasn't even ALIVE when this happened, hence, he can't be Madara/Tobi.

So I hope this clarifies to everyone the specific reasons of why Madara/Tobi IS NOT Obito.

 

[BAN_KAI]

ROFL

 

[EternalNagato]

ROFLMAO @ anyone thinking obito is still alive

 

[-Tauburn-]

LOL yeah alot of people were thinking that and its just wrong to think it that way

 

[Konoha Rokudaime]

This topic had been discussed a lot. But still, there are some freaks who believe Tobi is Obito. Even before/during the Kage meeting, there are some people who believe Tobi is Danzo.

You did good in picking up all the points. Let me add 1 more point.

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If Tobi is Obito, there is no way Obito will see First Hokage in Naruto. So, why Tobi saw First Hoakge in Naruto is because HE IS MADARA,

 

[Honord Sage]

The only logical explanation I can come out for a Obito/ Madra connection would be if Zetsu found the dying Obito and healed Him, thus the Madra/Zetsu connection and Obito thinking He was abandon by His team mates is on a vengeance tour.

 

[Narutofan123457]

This topic had been discussed a lot. But still, there are some freaks who believe Tobi is Obito. Even before/during the Kage meeting, there are some people who believe Tobi is Danzo.

You did good in picking up all the points. Let me add 1 more point.

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If Tobi is Obito, there is no way Obito will see First Hokage in Naruto. So, why Tobi saw First Hoakge in Naruto is because HE IS MADARA,

good point. obito wouldn't recognize the will of fire/senju in Naruto. The only person who could do that would be someone who had seen the first hokage personally.

 

[Ushiro]

another one. itachi implanted amaterasu in sasuke to activate when he sees madara's sharingan. he must have known alot about him if he is positive he is madara. but i wonder if sasuke had seen kakashi's sharingan first, would it have activated? technically it obito's sharingan.

 

[yondaimeminato]

Lately, a lot of people have been posting trying to give reasons for the theory that Madara/Tobi is actually Obito. I'd like to explain why there is no possible way that this could be the case.

I will tell why there is no possible way for you to confirm that the possibility that tobi/madara isn't Obito. It's just want you came up by looking through the manga. Don't persuade other people to your thinking. They have their right and they might be right because there is a possibility

1. Obito was crushed under a huge boulder. Kakashi took one eye and the other eye was crushed. So far, we have seen Madara with at least one sharingan that was recognizable as THE SHARINGAN. This would be impossible had it been Obito.

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How do you know that the other was crashed, take another close look to kakashi gaiden chapters

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look carefully to obito's head and tell me if obito's head was completely crashed by that big boulder. The boulder had an egg shape almost. The only part the boulder would have damage would have been from obito's stomach up to the his chest. Plus we have seen in naruto manga that ninja's body are tougher than we expect. Ninjas in naruto get hit with jutsus, first, thrown away to trees or ground or buildings and they can destroy buildings, walls, trees etc and they are not going to get scared of anything. Only if there has been a deep cut. Burned skin or face they can be healed.

Even if obito would have lost his eyes there, madara could have still transplant sharingan eyes to his body. Madara/tobi has a collection of sharingan eyes in his hideout.

2.Kisame clearly recognized Madara as being MADARA. Madara is a lot older than Obito. Even when he 'died' he was still probably ten years older. Kisame wouldn't have recognized him as the Mizukage/Madara had he been a fake.

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You are forgetting that kisame was with Itachi, I would assume that itachi talked to kisame about madara.

Even if itachi didn't tell him about madara or tobi

zetsu would have told him about who tobi really was because before madara went to talk with kisame, zetsu had already talked with him which obviously zetsu would have told kisame that from now on he was going to work under tobi's orders and that he should respect him because he was madara. Madara just went to kisame to confirm kisame that he was madara

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3. Even if Obito was still alive (which he's not), why would he want to bring harm and destruction to the world? Isn't Obito the one who always cared about protecting bonds, and peace, and love? That doesn't sound like an insane, world-controlling, wackjob whose sole goal in life is to reek havock on the world with the ultimate jutsu...

In kakashi gaiden we see obito as the person who cared a lot about Rin. He was in love with her. He would put his life into the line if it went to save her. He almost sacrificed his life for rin and even gave kakashi the sharingan to take care of her but kakashi wasn't able to protect her. Rin died and that would have triggered his hatred toward kakashi and konoha. We have seen how konoha has been messing up so far. Konoha was responsible for the massacre of the uchiha. Konoha was responsible for the rebellion of orochimaru. Konoha was responsible for the hatred that Nagato had. Konoha was responsible for the death of yahiko thus turning nagato into evil again. It would be no surprise if konoha was responsible for the death of Rin and triggering the hatred that was deep inside obito. So far we have seen that all ninjas have an other side in them so did obito.

4. Itachi knew Madara's face. Just because Obito has the same haircut now doesn't make him Madara. Look at the facts. Obito is dead and he would also have no intuition to harm people randomly.

The hair doesn't mean anything. Hair grow and it can be cut and grow again. Obito had 13 years old when the boulder crashed him. By now obito would have been almost the same age as kakashi. Obito could have looked like madara as well, just like sasuke could look like madara if he had long hair.

It is not just the hair that looks similar to obito but his ocular power. The ocular power of madara/tobi is 90% similar to kakashi's kumai. Even before kakashi was able to active his kumai, madara already knew what he was going to do because he knows that kakashi has the same ocular power as he does and it won't work with him because it's his. Madara has the advanced level of the ocular power of kakashi. Kakahi's ocular power has been improving lately. The only question left is: can kakashi's ocular power reach madara's ocular power since they are the same eyes?

5. Tobi/Madara faced Kakashi when they were fighting each other. If we look back in the manga, there have been a large number of instances where Kishi forshadows things by making the characters say things that seem odd. Don't you think if Obito had seen Kakashi and his sharingan, he would have made a comment? As soon as Kakashi sees the sharingan, Madara up and leaves.

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Why would he want to reveal his identity to kakashi. Kakashi is intelligent. Anything compromising from tobi then kakashi would have immediately known who he really was. Then, kakashi would have tell tsunade and the other kages that tobi isn't madara. Then the kages wouldn't have feared or had as much respect as they do right now. Which is the reason, madara agreed to work with kabuto because he showed something that tobi doesn't anyone to know. Kabuto told him that tobi shouldn't worry about anything because he hasn't told anyone his secret yet. How would have kabuto discovered tobi's true identify? since kabuto was working on the soul transferring with orochimaru. Orochimaru found his own way to transfer his soul onto another people through a ceremony with a white cobra king snake. Kabuto knew that it was possible for people to transfer souls onto another bodies. Fact, almost anything is possible in naruto, don't let your real life confuse you with what could happen in naruto.

6. How would Obito know all of the info Madara knows (Juubi, Kyuubi attack, etc)? Only a very select number of people (Kages?, Sage of 6 paths, and MADARA) knew about it. Why did Madara know? Because he's old and wise enough to know. He knows the history of everything because he was alive when the nations were still being formed and got the information. Obito would have NO way of knowing any of this. Also, it has been pretty clarified that Madara controlled the kyuubi into attacking Konoha. Obito wasn't even ALIVE when this happened, hence, he can't be Madara/Tobi.

So I hope this clarifies to everyone the specific reasons of why Madara/Tobi IS NOT Obito.

Madara would have somehow transfer his soul into obito's body. This would explain how tobi has two personalities. It's much like susake/orochimaru. Sasuke was suppressing orochimaru in his inner self so that orochimaru wouldn't take over his body or mind. Since Obito didn't have a strong mind, it would have been easy for someone like madara to take over Obito. His body was young which made it a perfect body for madara because then he wouldn't transfer bodies like orochimaru did because Obito's mind was weak or easy enough to take over. When rin died, it was probably then that madara took over obito's mind completely. Pretty much what naruto is doing right now with the nine tail demon. Also explaining why madara would take a lot of time before he would decide to attack the village again.

The answer to your question would be because he is madara in obito's body.


Do you honestly think that the body of madara would have lasted so many years and still have that mobility and young look in his body and face?

A messed up body where he got stabbed by the first?

He doesn't look like chiyo or her hasband or the third hokage or raikage. Or as messed up as danzou or as the two elders of konoha. All of these people were in their 50-80 no older than that.

 

[3vil]

obito is gone its over for him
evry1 is assuming that zetsu or madara was watching the fight in the gaiden then decided to dig up the corpse AFTER they observed MULTIPLE giant rocks fall on his face.
wud it not of been easier to deal wiv kakashi and take the GOOD eye

also kisame recognised madara as mizukage so that wud hav to be the same body frm the fight with the 1st to becoming mizukage to flashing kisame
and......

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sexy 5th mizukage says there were suspicions of narstiness
i dnt kno abt time frames but i feel say obito wud be in nappys at this time

nuff said

 

[yondaimeminato]

obito is gone its over for him
evry1 is assuming that zetsu or madara was watching the fight in the gaiden then decided to dig up the corpse AFTER they observed MULTIPLE giant rocks fall on his face.
wud it not of been easier to deal wiv kakashi and take the GOOD eye

also kisame recognised madara as mizukage so that wud hav to be the same body frm the fight with the 1st to becoming mizukage to flashing kisame
and......

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sexy 5th mizukage says there were suspicions of narstiness
i dnt kno abt time frames but i feel say obito wud be in nappys at this time

nuff said

rinnegan (nagato) had the power to revive people. Nagato is at least 4-5 years older than kakashi or obito when the third world was about to end. At that time yahiko and nagato were at their 16-7. This is when nagato got mad and when yahiko died. He revived the statue kuchiyosi gedo mazo. This statue suck the life out of him and made him cripple and weak. After that it wouldn't have taken long for madara to go and talk to him. The supposedly death of obito wasn't long when madara would have taken nagato as his new member. Since I know this isn't going to make sense to you I am just going to throw it up you. You have seen what hell realm can do. Who better than madara to know all the secret powers of the rinnegan than nagato. Madara knew exactly what nagato was capable of with those eyes. So madara would have been the one to get the body of obito to nagato so that he can bring back the obito to life to life and fix his messy body too. The time of death of obito wasn't very long so nagato would still be able to do something about it.

Why so much interest in this body?
Just imagine. We are talking about madara here, a person who doesn't like to wait. Do you think if he have had a good body, he wouldn't have attack konoha. Konoha was in the third ninja world war. Konoha was weaken to the stage that all konoha's important ninjas where outside fighting in their borders with other ninjas. Madara would have easily taken over the konoha village by himself if madara would have had a good body and power. He was weak. The first gravely damage him. The first might not have killed madara but he did damage. For got sakes, he was stabbed in the body with a sword (huge). Do you think he would have gotten the guts to fight the uchiha where they lived. I don't think the uchiha helped with the third war because they were starting to get angry with konoha. Madara wasn't able to take any body from the uchiha clan because he was weak and with an old body.

While, Obito was someone who hated his clan for not taking him seriously. He was an uchiha who was not with his clan. He was with his team kakashi, minato and rin. He was probably the only uchiha trying to be friendly with the konoha people. Since he wasn't with his clan and he was always outside helping with third war. This brought madara's attention to him. He would have taken Obito with him anytime but minato was with him so it was impossible until he was away or busy doing other things. Plus, obito was a good person who supported konoha and his clan. He wanted best for everyone. Madara had nothing on him to convince obito to go with him. So this incident happened and obito in order to save kakashi, a big boulder fell on his body. We don't know what happen to his body. There is no grave for him only a written name. Madara would have taken obito's dieing body to nagato and tell him to fix him and bring him to life so that he can take over his body.

Once again, sharingan best works on a body of an uchiha. If a non uchiha is going to have a sharingan, he is going to get tired quickly like kakashi. Every time he overuses his sharingan, his body can not take it. This is why he has his close and covered because that way the sharingan is resting. Now if you had an uchiha body, this wouldn't happen. A sharingan in an uchiha body it's going to work more and it's going to develop faster and be more powerful which is why madara's kumai is more developed than kakashi's. By taking obito's body, madara found a treasure because with his sharingan he is able to use the same kumai as kakashi's. This came in handy for madara.

Do you think madara would have stayed in konoha. He is missing ninja might as well become something else where right? Yagura was the Fourth Mizukage. He was the host of the three tail demon. The reason how the three tail demon would have gotten out, it's unknown. Remember if the tail demon gets out of the host body, it's over for the host because it takes over the host's body completely. So it can't be the host of the three tail demon madara. Madara killed the fourth mizukage. he was young and so was madara in a young body (obito). Madara is the one who can control the tail demons. He is the responsible for what happened to the true mizukage. Madara might have planned to disguise himself as the mizukage but this didn't last for too long. Kisame would have easily seen him while he was pretending to be mizukage. After all, kisame was one who tried to destroy his village. He wasn't around the village too much. It's not like kisame was the bodyguard of the mizukage.


there is so many ways to explain anything or everyone anyone says


As the manga goes up in numbers(chapters), the prove for the theory of obito being madara/tobi gets stronger.

 

[Kaziname]

The only logical explanation I can come out for a Obito/ Madra connection would be if Zetsu found the dying Obito and healed Him, thus the Madra/Zetsu connection and Obito thinking He was abandon by His team mates is on a vengeance tour.

He wasn't abandoned. He asked them to leave so they can save themselves. There is no obvious reason for Obito to take revenge on world or Konoha...

 

[Narutofan123457]

rinnegan (nagato) had the power to revive people. Nagato is at least 4-5 years older than kakashi or obito when the third world was about to end. At that time yahiko and nagato were at their 16-7. This is when nagato got mad and when yahiko died. He revived the statue kuchiyosi gedo mazo. This statue suck the life out of him and made him cripple and weak. After that it wouldn't have taken long for madara to go and talk to him. The supposedly death of obito wasn't long when madara would have taken nagato as his new member. Since I know this isn't going to make sense to you I am just going to throw it up you. You have seen what hell realm can do. Who better than madara to know all the secret powers of the rinnegan than nagato. Madara knew exactly what nagato was capable of with those eyes. So madara would have been the one to get the body of obito to nagato so that he can bring back the obito to life to life and fix his messy body too. The time of death of obito wasn't very long so nagato would still be able to do something about it.

Why so much interest in this body?
Just imagine. We are talking about madara here, a person who doesn't like to wait. Do you think if he have had a good body, he wouldn't have attack konoha. Konoha was in the third ninja world war. Konoha was weaken to the stage that all konoha's important ninjas where outside fighting in their borders with other ninjas. Madara would have easily taken over the konoha village by himself if madara would have had a good body and power. He was weak. The first gravely damage him. The first might not have killed madara but he did damage. For got sakes, he was stabbed in the body with a sword (huge). Do you think he would have gotten the guts to fight the uchiha where they lived. I don't think the uchiha helped with the third war because they were starting to get angry with konoha. Madara wasn't able to take any body from the uchiha clan because he was weak and with an old body.

While, Obito was someone who hated his clan for not taking him seriously. He was an uchiha who was not with his clan. He was with his team kakashi, minato and rin. He was probably the only uchiha trying to be friendly with the konoha people. Since he wasn't with his clan and he was always outside helping with third war. This brought madara's attention to him. He would have taken Obito with him anytime but minato was with him so it was impossible until he was away or busy doing other things. Plus, obito was a good person who supported konoha and his clan. He wanted best for everyone. Madara had nothing on him to convince obito to go with him. So this incident happened and obito in order to save kakashi, a big boulder fell on his body. We don't know what happen to his body. There is no grave for him only a written name. Madara would have taken obito's dieing body to nagato and tell him to fix him and bring him to life so that he can take over his body.

Once again, sharingan best works on a body of an uchiha. If a non uchiha is going to have a sharingan, he is going to get tired quickly like kakashi. Every time he overuses his sharingan, his body can not take it. This is why he has his close and covered because that way the sharingan is resting. Now if you had an uchiha body, this wouldn't happen. A sharingan in an uchiha body it's going to work more and it's going to develop faster and be more powerful which is why madara's kumai is more developed than kakashi's. By taking obito's body, madara found a treasure because with his sharingan he is able to use the same kumai as kakashi's. This came in handy for madara.

Do you think madara would have stayed in konoha. He is missing ninja might as well become something else where right? Yagura was the Fourth Mizukage. He was the host of the three tail demon. The reason how the three tail demon would have gotten out, it's unknown. Remember if the tail demon gets out of the host body, it's over for the host because it takes over the host's body completely. So it can't be the host of the three tail demon madara. Madara killed the fourth mizukage. he was young and so was madara in a young body (obito). Madara is the one who can control the tail demons. He is the responsible for what happened to the true mizukage. Madara might have planned to disguise himself as the mizukage but this didn't last for too long. Kisame would have easily seen him while he was pretending to be mizukage. After all, kisame was one who tried to destroy his village. He wasn't around the village too much. It's not like kisame was the bodyguard of the mizukage.


there is so many ways to explain anything or everyone anyone says


As the manga goes up in numbers(chapters), the prove for the theory of obito being madara/tobi gets stronger.

first of all, ow. My eyes are bleeding... second of all just except it... OBITO WAS CRUSHED BY A ROCK AND DIED!

 

[griems]

Jesus christ guys noone even says it Obito himself, it COULD be his body that is being used as a shell (does that word ring a bell) no matter what you say or how much ridiculous proof you manage to bring to the table it is still possible.

And no he wasn't crushed completely, just enough to not being able to move or he would instantly die - his head was fine, you just couldn't see his right side. Unless you're gonna tell me that the right side of his head was crushed but ofcourse he could still talk and think about giving someone his own eye because the left side was ok... yeah that makes sense :flaw:

/bonk

 

[yondaimeminato]

first of all, ow. My eyes are bleeding... second of all just except it... OBITO WAS CRUSHED BY A ROCK AND DIED!

You can't confirm this. It's what you expect to have happened. You can't show me the grave of obito, the body of obito.

If you haven't notice this isn't real life. It's naruto manga. Crazier things have happened. Of course in real life there would be no way that when you get crashed by bunch of rocks, there wont a way to survive. But in naruto series is different. There is a lot of fiction and there is no reason for you try to mix real life logic with naruto manga.

if obito died

There are still ways to save him and recover his damage body.

Nagato would have still be able to save him. Madara is someone who knows a lot about jutsus and other people. He is very knowledgeable about everything. I would expect him to know few earth jutsus that would take out the corpse of obito. For example the wack a mole jutsu. What a coincidence that nagato would go berserk and start hating everyone just when madara needed someone who would be able to fix obito and bring him to life. An alive body is going to grow, improve and develop just like his sharingan.

How much time do you think it takes for someone to die?

We have seen it with kakashi and jiraiya. He wasn't completely dead yet but it was half way there to being dead and it took him few chapters to be there. He even had time to talk with his father. A better example is jiraiya. Jiraiya was stabbed in his body with black rods in his vital organs but he had time to write a code, and come up with the last tittle of his book. And he was still smiling as he was going down. The same thing would have happened to obito, who was still barely alive when madara rescued him. It would take him long time to fully bring obito back to life and fix his body. Madara must know some secret jutsus that would allow him to do that. This would explain why he would have taken so much time to finally attack the village.


And i haven't even mentioned zetzu yet...

 

[yondaimeminato]

first of all, ow. My eyes are bleeding... second of all just except it... OBITO WAS CRUSHED BY A ROCK AND DIED!

Make up your mind buddy was it by "A ROCK" or "ROCKS"?

 

['-Hellknight-']

Lately, a lot of people have been posting trying to give reasons for the theory that Madara/Tobi is actually Obito. I'd like to explain why there is no possible way that this could be the case.

1. Obito was crushed under a huge boulder. Kakashi took one eye and the other eye was crushed. So far, we have seen Madara with at least one sharingan that was recognizable as THE SHARINGAN. This would be impossible had it been Obito.

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2.Kisame clearly recognized Madara as being MADARA. Madara is a lot older than Obito. Even when he 'died' he was still probably ten years older. Kisame wouldn't have recognized him as the Mizukage/Madara had he been a fake.

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3. Even if Obito was still alive (which he's not), why would he want to bring harm and destruction to the world? Isn't Obito the one who always cared about protecting bonds, and peace, and love? That doesn't sound like an insane, world-controlling, wackjob whose sole goal in life is to reek havock on the world with the ultimate jutsu...

4. Itachi knew Madara's face. Just because Obito has the same haircut now doesn't make him Madara. Look at the facts. Obito is dead and he would also have no intuition to harm people randomly.

5. Tobi/Madara faced Kakashi when they were fighting each other. If we look back in the manga, there have been a large number of instances where Kishi forshadows things by making the characters say things that seem odd. Don't you think if Obito had seen Kakashi and his sharingan, he would have made a comment? As soon as Kakashi sees the sharingan, Madara up and leaves.

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6. How would Obito know all of the info Madara knows (Juubi, Kyuubi attack, etc)? Only a very select number of people (Kages?, Sage of 6 paths, and MADARA) knew about it. Why did Madara know? Because he's old and wise enough to know. He knows the history of everything because he was alive when the nations were still being formed and got the information. Obito would have NO way of knowing any of this. Also, it has been pretty clarified that Madara controlled the kyuubi into attacking Konoha. Obito wasn't even ALIVE when this happened, hence, he can't be Madara/Tobi.

So I hope this clarifies to everyone the specific reasons of why Madara/Tobi IS NOT Obito.

dude everybody knows that obito is not madara

 

[yondaimeminato]

dude everybody knows that obito is not madara

your *everybody knows* ends with me buddy, stop including me in ur little world of imagination. This is call going beyond the box and not staying in the box like most of you are. I am not the only one who thinks the same there are still other people who think the same way and it's only growing stronger because as the chapters advance there are more evidence that madara is using obito's body.

I know you hate to admit it but it is what it is boy

 

[Princess.GaGa]

Tobi cannot be madara coz Zetsu ate obito's deliciously boyish body...

 

[3vil]

ur saying nagato was able to release the full power of the rinnegan so quickly after obito's death to be able to revive him.
even tho previous uses of the rinnegan were due to high emotion states
and even then it was destructive rage

madara could have schooled him but i dnt see him knowing the resurrection jutsu to teach him

and kakashi was dead wen talkin to his father jus not fully crossed over

madara using another body is plausible but i dnt see why the need to hang on to obito
after all he helped itachi deal with the whole clan, all them dead uchiha's wiv sharingans more advanced then wen obito died
and itachi did say madara is a SHELL of his former self, maybe he saw something