Why BM Naruto > EMS Sasuke

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You're ignorant because you're directly denying the manga and the symbolism behind it.

Applying symbolism to manga is pure speculation. What manga did I deny... I posted what my opinion was on the matter and provided you with facts from the manga. Please enlighten me on why I should know these seemingly insignificant names for a nose.

Bold is completely false and your speculation. In KCM/BM just like in SM a chakra burns much faster due to great body enhancement, if used other jutsus it goes even faster.

Sasuke could hold Susanoo for around 10min with MS alone and after kage summit. As EMS it is espected to be greater time limit.

Sasuke sure doesnt look as powerful as naruto chakra wise and never was but his deadly techniques fighting skill and efficiency sure can bring him victory in couple of scenarios.

How is it speculation

Spoiler

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"The amount of time we can keep this up is..." It's not speculation sorry U_U/
I agree Sasuke is a deadly character to fight, but all of what you just said is implying Naruto isn't any of those things. So not only does Sasuek have to go up against Naruto's raw power, but his deadly ability to analyze a situation and strike. Just like Sasuke can do. You underestimate the intelligence of Naruto .

 

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Why wouldn't the Enton swords be as powerful?

Madara's Susanoo swords in the early Susanoo forms weren't all that powerful, but experienced a large increase in power when he upped his Susanoo to its "Perfect form". There is nothing inherently special about those blades, they're just regular Susanoo blades. But because of the scale of Perfect Susanoo and the physical strenght of the Perfect Susanoo, Madara can cut mountains with them.

Sasuke's Enton blades have shown better piercing feats (at the complete Susanoo level) than Madara's have. When he gets Perfect Susanoo, his Enton Blade would have the same physical strength behind it as Madara's, but with the added potency of Enton.

Madara's blades were able to stop a bijuu bomb in "complete" susanoo form. Sasuke's enton blades would never be able to do that...

Piercing is not slashing. Sasuke's enton blades are just flames he's manipulating. There's no proof to backup they have any kind of destructive power that could = mountain slicing. :|

 

[Transcendence]

Why is this still going?

Current Naruto > EMS Sasuke

PS Sasuke > Current Naruto

Full BM Naruto > PS Sasuke.

Simple as that.

 

[adeshina365]

Regardless of how often he uses an MS technique, he still doesn't have chakra comparable to Madara, Naruto, Hashirama, Kabuto, Obito, or anyone with a substantial amount of chakra. Sasuke's chakra levels are mediocre at best. Equivalent to Kakashi's. Anyway you try to shape it, his chakra levels aren't very high, and compared to BM Naruto's, they might as well be non-existent.

Looks like you completely ignored the content of my previous posts.

Sasuke can produce a technique that matches FRS chakra output with ease and produces Enton arrows which surpass the chakra output of that.

 

[adeshina365]

Madara's blades were able to stop a bijuu bomb in "complete" susanoo form. Sasuke's enton blades would never be able to do that...

Piercing is not slashing. Sasuke's enton blades are just flames he's manipulating. There's no proof to backup they have any kind of destructive power that could = mountain slicing. :|

The blades of Madara's giant Final Susanoo were able to block the Bijuu Dama. As he ups the level (and size) of his Susanoo, the blades increase in capability (thickness). Tsunade was capable of breaking his complete Susanoo blades and Gaara was capable of tanking more than one slash from those blades with his sand.

Check the above image I posted, he both pierced and slashed the Juubi clone. The condensed Amaterasu that the Enton blade are composed of are pseudo-solid.

Do I need to repeat myself? The swords themselves don't have any special property, it was the shear strength behind the swords (the Susanoo itself) that were able to generate enough force to cause a shockwave.

 

[AlphaScythian]

How is it speculation

Spoiler

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"The amount of time we can keep this up is..." It's not speculation sorry U_U/
I agree Sasuke is a deadly character to fight, but all of what you just said is implying Naruto isn't any of those things. So not only does Sasuek have to go up against Naruto's raw power, but his deadly ability to analyze a situation and strike. Just like Sasuke can do. You underestimate the intelligence of Naruto .

It is speculation cuz it isnt the lack of yin chakra that made it 8min. Its 8min and thats it for now.
I didnt say naruto has no chance to win, but its like tossing a coin, both have good chances which makes your thread invalid.
Sasuke has fought SM and perfect jin naruto didnt fight susanoo much just the rib cage.

 

[adeshina365]

It is speculation cuz it isnt the lack of yin chakra that made it 8min. Its 8min and thats it for now.
I didnt say naruto has no chance to win, but its like tossing a coin, both have good chances which makes your thread invalid.
Sasuke has fought SM and perfect jin naruto didnt fight susanoo much just the rib cage.

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Kurama mentions that the reason for the time limit is because of the "link" between him and Naruto being "far from perfect" during their first Bijuu transformation.

 

[slimreaper]

Regardless of how often he uses an MS technique, he still doesn't have chakra comparable to Madara, Naruto, Hashirama, Kabuto, Obito, or anyone with a substantial amount of chakra. Sasuke's chakra levels are mediocre at best. Equivalent to Kakashi's. Anyway you try to shape it, his chakra levels aren't very high, and compared to BM Naruto's, they might as well be non-existent.

no just no. sasuke is leagues above kakashi. sasuke has used 18 ms techs,3 chidori variants, and a katon in ONE DAY!!!
sasuke's chakra levels were only low due to the strain of the MS.

Proof that madara or obito have greater chakra pools than sasuke given his new ems abilities? no to mention the list of things hes done insn't even complete yet hes still fighting

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

Applying symbolism to manga is pure speculation. What manga did I deny... I posted what my opinion was on the matter and provided you with facts from the manga. Please enlighten me on why I should know these seemingly insignificant names for a nose.

You're denying the obvious symbolism within the manga, that is an act of ignorance. You're merely backing my initial judgement with such a claim. Between Perfect Susano'o and Final Susano'o, both can be labeled Perfect Susano'o, just one is yet to stabilize. I understand the issue, labeling is quite difficult when it comes to the many forms of Susano'o, but truthfully, the only difference is knowledge and control over it's power, granting it even more power. Which is again backed by the symbolism of the Tengu, which should be obvious.

 

[AlphaScythian]

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Kurama mentions that the reason for the time limit is because of the "link" between him and Naruto being "far from perfect" during their first Bijuu transformation.

And now its perfect? How long is perfect link?
With BM naruto only managed to match MS sasuke really. Dont you think EMS would grant him some stamina durability boost aswell?

 

[Multiply]

Looks like you completely ignored the content of my previous posts.

Sasuke can produce a technique that matches FRS chakra output with ease and produces Enton arrows which surpass the chakra output of that.

Which technique matched the chakra output of FRS? When did enton arrows surpass a FRS? The enton arrow merely expanded with the rasenshuriken. The output wasn't surpassed.

The blades of Madara's giant Final Susanoo were able to block the Bijuu Dama. As he ups the level (and size) of his Susanoo, the blades increase in capability (thickness). Tsunade was capable of breaking his complete Susanoo blades and Gaara was capable of tanking more than one slash from those blades with his sand.

Check the above image I posted, he both pierced and slashed the Juubi clone. The condensed Amaterasu that the Enton blade are composed of are pseudo-solid.

Do I need to repeat myself? The swords themselves don't have any special property, it was the shear strength behind the swords (the Susanoo itself) that were able to generate enough force to cause a shockwave.

@Bold, pure speculation.

So the strength behind the sword is what makes it able to destroy mountains... U_U

It is speculation cuz it isnt the lack of yin chakra that made it 8min. Its 8min and thats it for now.
I didnt say naruto has no chance to win, but its like tossing a coin, both have good chances which makes your thread invalid.
Sasuke has fought SM and perfect jin naruto didnt fight susanoo much just the rib cage.

True, that bit was speculation, but the lack of chakra wasn't . This thread isn't invalid, overall BM Naruto is much > EMS Sasuke. I'm talking about without PS too... With PS I believe BM Naruto is still greater but that's my personal opinion.

 

[HiddenSound]

KCM Clones GG...

 

[Multiply]

You're denying the obvious symbolism within the manga, that is an act of ignorance. You're merely backing my initial judgement with such a claim. Between Perfect Susano'o and Final Susano'o, both can be labeled Perfect Susano'o, just one is yet to stabilize. I understand the issue, labeling is quite difficult when it comes to the many forms of Susano'o, but truthfully, the only difference is knowledge and control over it's power, granting it even more power. Which is again backed by the symbolism of the Tengu, which should be obvious.

I just told you to enlighten NB on your symbolism, and you haven't. You didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

 

[adeshina365]

Which technique matched the chakra output of FRS? When did enton arrows surpass a FRS? The enton arrow merely expanded with the rasenshuriken. The output wasn't surpassed.

Lol, you already acknowledged this earlier in this thread.

Enton Kagutsuchi. Read Sasuke's dialog on the bottom left corner.

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Read Sasuke's dialog on the bottom left corner. If that Enton matches FRS's chakra output, then a Enton arrow will surpass it.

@Bold, pure speculation.

So the strength behind the sword is what makes it able to destroy mountains... U_U

Are you really suggesting that uncondensed fire has cutting properties? By that logic, normal Amaterasu would cut through its victims. A solid is simply a substance whose particles are closely compacted together.

Of course the strength behind the sword is what allows it to cut through mountains. The Perfect Susanoo blade didn't directly touch the mountains, its shockwave (produce from the strenght of the swing) cut through the mountains.

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

I just told you to enlighten NB on your symbolism, and you haven't. You didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

I have already explained it. The Daitengu, are the greatest form of Tengu and are much larger than the lesser form of Kotengu, which hold a more bird like appearance, which can be said of both Madara and Sasuke's pre-stabilized version of Susano'o. The Tengu, which have been said to be related to the Storm god Susano'o, are not all equal, what separates those who become Daitengu from those who become Kotengu is that one is knowledgeable while one is ignorant. Which, makes a lot of sense when considering how Madara "perfects" his Susano'o by stabilizing it's chakra, and chakra control takes knowledge, especially when controlling something of Susano'o's force and power.

 

[slimreaper]

@Inanimated

sasuke doesn't have to put as much chakra into his enton arrows to match Naruto's Odama frs. because Sasuke can accurately gauge the amount of chakra need to overpower Naruto's best FRS.

 

[AlphaScythian]

@Inanimated

sasuke doesn't have to put as much chakra into his enton arrows to match Naruto's Odama frs. because Sasuke can accurately gauge the amount of chakra need to overpower Naruto's best FRS.

FRS is but gasoline to a spark. Enton is a best spark there is sasuke doesnt need to overpower nothing here but incinerate only.

What sasuke did was synchronize his chakra with naruto's to remove harmful enton effect to naruto's jutsu.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

This discussion is kind of funny. Many people are always comparing Naruto and Sasuke when the two should not be compared in the first place. My view of the two character is simple. Unlike Madara and Hashirama who were Uchiha and Senju, Naruto and Sasuke are completely different entity. Fanboyism put aside, Naruto is far stronger than Sasuke, and this can be seen obviously by choices that Kishi make.

1. Base Naruto without Kyuubi is a match for Sasuke, but ....

Well, I added a but. As you all know, base Naruto has already more chakra and stamina than Sasuke. This is a fact, and ignoring it is a misunderstanding of the manga. The reason is clear as well: Base Naruto is an Uzumaki with a monstrous chakra and stamina. This is the reason he is Kyuubi's Jinchuriki in the first place. This is why unlike Hashirama, Kishi did not give him lot of Jutsu to begin with. If Kishi were to give base Naruto the Senju scroll as Sasuke has assess to the Uchiha tablet, base Naruto would be as strong before Sasuke as Hashirama was strong before Madara. Both Naruto and Hashirama are alike among people in their clan.

2. Kyuubi is a sea of power, and ignoring it is just unbelievable.

Well, this is my opinion. The minute Kishi gave Kyuubi to Naruto, Kishi clearly told to the fandom that Naruto was neither a Senju, nor a rival for an Uchiha. Naruto is playing a completely different role than your usual Uchiha-Senju comparison. It even seems that the fandom has forgotten that Naruto has now more power than the Naruto who cancelled all Nagato's attacks.

3. Throw in natural energy!

Yeah, throw in Natural energy and SM. I think it is clear that Naruto win very easy against Sasuke if he goes in a rage or killing mode.

Conclusion: You may get mad at my analysis, but this is a fair analysis. Assuming you have a good memory, Naruto's chakra pool without Kyuubi was shown to be the largest since day 1 of their graduation. To make Sasuke keep up, Kishi gave Sasuke better chakra control and poor chakra control than Naruto. EVery time Naruto uses Kyuubi's chakra, it is either for speed or power of the chakra. To much Naruto using Kyuubi, Kishi had to give curse seal power to Sasuke, and clearly, as the OP said, in order to match BM Naruto, kishi need to power up Sasuke with an external source. Besides, I think this will not happen. Naruto will ascend to god mode very soon.

 

[Multiply]

Lol, you already acknowledged this earlier in this thread.

Enton Kagutsuchi. Read Sasuke's dialog on the bottom left corner.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Read Sasuke's dialog on the bottom left corner. If that Enton matches FRS's chakra output, then a Enton arrow will surpass it.

Are you really suggesting that uncondensed fire has cutting properties? By that logic, normal Amaterasu would cut through its victims. A solid is simply a substance whose particles are closely compacted together.

Of course the strength behind the sword is what allows it to cut through mountains. The Perfect Susanoo blade didn't directly touch the mountains, its shockwave (produce from the strenght of the swing) cut through the mountains.

Sasuke never output the same amount of chakra as Naruto. He merely made sure the chakra ratio was correct, as Naruto did with the TBB. That's why you notice the enton wrap itself around the shuriken parts of the FRS. there's not nearly as much chakra inside the enton attack as there is in the FRS. You forget what the FRS is my friend.

If you're suggesting NV follows earthly physics, you're sadly mistaken. If it did, none of the things they're even doing would be considered possible. Teleportation would not be possible.

Show scans of the shockwave cutting the mountain, not the sword...

I have already explained it. The Daitengu, which is the greatest form of Tengu and is much larger than the lesser form of Kotengu, which hold a more bird like appearance, which can be said of both Madara and Sasuke's pre-stabilized version of Susano'o. The Tengu, which have been said to be related to the Storm god Susano'o, are not all equal, what separates those who become Daitengu from those who become Kotengu is that one is knowledgeable while one is ignorant. Which, makes a lot of sense when considering how Madara "perfects" his Susano'o by stabilizing it's chakra, and chakra control takes knowledge, especially when controlling something of Susano'o's force and power.

TBH, no idea what you're talking about. Are you just talking about the appearances? I don't even care anymore, it's like 2am lol.

 

[adeshina365]

FRS is but gasoline to a spark. Enton is a best spark there is sasuke doesnt need to overpower nothing here but incinerate only.

What sasuke did was synchronize his chakra with naruto's to remove harmful enton effect to naruto's jutsu.

Read the scan I posted on the previous page.

Sasuke said that he would use his sharingan to match Naruto's chakra output.

Also, notice how the Enton Kagutsuchi and FRS combo resulted in the FRS not being completely engulfed, but the Susanoo Enton Kagutsuchi and COFRS combo resulted in a completely engulfed COFRS. That's the basis for the Enton arrow that Sasuke used having a greater chakra output than Naruto's COFRS.