Why BM Naruto > EMS Sasuke

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[iNotorious]

I was implying that Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o would be of the same scale.

Size = probably, power = No, nope and no

People agree with me? Interesting... *_*

Lol

 

[adeshina365]

Sasuke has already seen a very large chakra pool increase.

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Just to highlight the size differential (and in turn, the chakra difference) between Rasenshuriken and Chou Oodama Rasenshuriken:

A regular FRS's sized compared to KM Naruto:

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A COFRS's size in comparison to KM Naruto:

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You can see from these images the drastic difference in chakra consumption between the two techniques (at least 5x more). SM Naruto who has been noted to have a lot of chakra is fatigued after only 2 normal sized FRSs. To think that Sasuke can use a technique that consumes more chakra than Chou Oodama Rasenshuriken and still have plenty in the tank is amazing.

This is huge IMO. I'm surprised it hasn't been much of a talking point.

 

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Sasuke has already seen a very large chakra pool increase.

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Where did you deduce this from. Idk how you included Amaterasu in this... Ok I read that thread, but seriously where did you pull that, "sasuke can use a tech that consumes more chakra than Chou FRS." I don't see what technique that is...

 

[Xāvî1]

This is going to be pretty brief.

Basically, the only reason Sasuke can't stand up to Naruto is because, if Sasuke doesn't have his susanoo on at all times, he will be destroyed. Naruto's speed is not quite equivalent to Minato's or Tobirama's but it's almost there. The second susanoo is powered down, Sasuke gets murdered. I'm not bashing Sasuke, I'm merely saying, Sasuke needs a power-up that isn't PS. PS will just drain Sasuke's, already non-existent, chakra reserves. He needs a stamina boost, or an attack that will actually help him land a blow on Naruto. As of now, Naruto dodges everything Sasuke has.

Conclusion: PS is not enough to defeat BM. We don't even know what power-ups would come with that PS. I think Kishi has a chakra boost + something attack wise in store for Sasuke if, in fact, they do fight.

Otherwise, BM Naruto > Sasuke by quite a bit until Sasuke gets some sort of powerup.

:scorps:

sasuke aint getting any more power up. but if he does so does naruto

 

[adeshina365]

Where did you deduce this from. Idk how you included Amaterasu in this... Ok I read that thread, but seriously where did you pull that, "sasuke can use a tech that consumes more chakra than Chou FRS." I don't see what technique that is...

The Enton arrow.

Go to the Viz clear up thread and read what Sasuke says to Naruto in chapter 641.

Edit: All Credits go to BlinkST

A few things from this chapter.

Sasuke: "Naruto, this time, I'll match your chakra level using my Sharingan."

Naruto: "Sheesh, no need to turn it into a competition!"

In the previous combo Sasuke put in more chakra than Naruto resulting in the Enton completely consuming the COFRS. Notice how that's not the case when Sasuke matches Naruto's chakra level.

 

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The Enton arrow.

Go to the Viz clear up thread and read what Sasuke says to Naruto in chapter 641.

Edit: All Credits go to BlinkST

Cba to check. I'm on my iPhone so navigation is pain. Post a link/quote for me please?

 

[adeshina365]

Cba to check. I'm on my iPhone so navigation is pain. Post a link/quote for me please?

The link:

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I edited my post above and quoted the relevant part as well.

 

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The link:

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I edited my post above and quoted the relevant part as well.

I read that, and Sasuke matched the rasenshuriken's chakra. Not a Chou. The enton arrow did not overpower the rasenshuriken, it merely hit it and began to spread as it began to burn into the expanding chakra

 

[adeshina365]

I read that, and Sasuke matched the rasenshuriken's chakra. Not a Chou. The enton arrow did not overpower the rasenshuriken, it merely hit it and began to spread as it began to burn into the expanding chakra

1. He says "this time". He's clearly referring to a previous incident.

2. His Enton Kagutsuchi also hit Naruto's regular FRS, but that didn't happen...

3. Even if what your saying is the case, Sasuke would still have substantially increased chakra reserves since the Enton arrow is significantly bigger than the Enton he used on Naruto's normal FRS (and in accordance with that consumes far more chakra than a normal FRS). No matter what way you slice and dice this, Sasuke must have had a fairly substantial (understatement) increase in his chakra reserves.

 

[take it easy]

naruto can damage sasuke with any susanoo level with tailed beast shockwave. genjutsu not working on naruto. naruto too fast for any sasuke attack.

 

[Mitarashi]

Sausage can't touch Naruto.
Naruto waits for Susano'o to wear off, and starts going crazy on he wee a boo ass.

 

[iFlowMotion]

Lol these threads will never end

 

[TheSages456]

the only thing i hear in these threads are ridiculous arguments like, "naruto is too fast for sasuke.", despite him getting tagged by multiple characters that dont hold any speed advantage over sasuke.

sasuke already stated that he would be capable of keeping up with BM naruto. sasukes susano tanked an attack that does more damage per square inch than bijudama. Ays attack was tanked by susano. it took off the hachibis horn. the hachibi tanked its own bijudama without losing any parts of its body.
bijudama doesnt solo as the manga has shown countless times.

 

[Draphsin]

1. Anyhow, those can be used because when has Sasuke had the chance to increase his chakra reserves? When he was resting up until his eyes healed after getting EMS?

2. The reason he doesn't go blind is because it's EMS. It hasn't been proven that not going blind improves chakra reserves or takes away some of the strain of the jutsu. Sasuke was able to spam ama before, but he didn't because of the immense strain it put on his eyes. Every time he used the jutsu, his eyes would grow a bit darker, and he would bleed. EMS merely takes away the physical strain on the users eyes. At least that much has been proven by manga. Again, a baseless argument... :|

3. Susanoo not causing pain has not been proven by manga. Even before Sasuke said this;

Spoiler

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4. First, Madara is not Sasuke... so you saying, "Madara could do it, why not Sasuke" is so irrelevant. Sasuke's chakra reserves have been proven to be = Itachi's or slightly above. Though, no more than Kakashi's. Proof that Sasuke can't maintain a PS(hypothetically), is that he doesn't have the chakra reserves... I don't get how you don't know that. It's like saying, Naruto could have done more than 2 rasenshuriken in SM, simply because he was able to do more than 2 in KCM. SM doesn't have the chakra necessary to pull off more than 2 rasenshuriken, thus why Naruto's absolute limit was only 2! Madara might beable to keep PS up for 20 mins, while Sasuke might only be able to keep it up for 5(hypothetical again). Chakra levels play a huge part in jutsu drainage, and Sasuke has already been proven to have kakashi level chakra(the quality of it is obviously better though).

5. I'm just saying the odds of him not being hit, are greater for him, than it was for Ay. That is simple logic Draphsin.

6. That's very true, a amaterasu covered battleground would be advantageous for Sasuke, however, like its already been proven, we're not even sure Sasuke would get those swords. Madara's Susanoo had those swords in its Final Susanoo stage. Refer to Hashi fight, when he blocked the tbb. He then activated PS, which wrapped itself around Kurama. Sasuke likely wouldn't have an enton sword tbh.

7. I know they're fast, but I assure you, Naruto is faster.

Ama orbs have a full potential? What now :yeah:

8. Does Danzo have any speed feats... Was danzo also using Izanagi. Did danzo also have enough time to redirect the arrow with Mokuton... Oh yeah, seems you've forgotten a few of those facts there

9. I'm not downplaying his abilities. He just doesn't have the chakra reserves to show us he has what it takes to take on BM Naruto, or even be close to him in power. Without an adequate amount of chakra, Sasuke is either a whole tier, or half a tier below BM Naruto.

10. BM blitzes most ninja in the series though... Just like Tobirama, Ay, or Minato. Madara's PS abilities can't be added to Sasuke's potential PS abilities... Doesn't quite make sense. I think you took my, "I'm using Madara's susanoo as a basis" a bit too literally. I meant the swords, not adding Sasuke's attacks to them. Sasuke either gets the mountain busting swords, or his FS techniques. Not both .

Make the next post shorter and number it, so I can address each argument by number! Thanks

1. Maybe there's another option.. Its possible that MS jutsus decrease the amount of chakra it drains after awakening EMS? Just go reread sasuke vs kabuto & tell me if you see any sign of fatigue, this alone is enough to prove that sasuke's susanoo is less of a problem, if any at all.

& Btw the point doesnt have to do with his chakra capacity, this has to do with how long sasuke can keep susanoo up. I havent seen sasuke fatigue once while maintaining susanoo so you cant predict how long he can keep it up.

2. Okay, if you want to prove me wrong then show me an ems user who gets damaged while maintaining susanoo, if you do then you are right, until then this argument is not baseless as its been implied through countless pictures of EMS madara & sasuke inside of susanno with absolutely no physical strain done to their bodies.

3. Sasuke had already used susanoo several times before, and only exclaimed that statement about his cells now, when he was being worn down.

He made that statement when he was finally by himself with his own thoughs, he never had time to actually realize how painful susanoo is. It was sasuke's breather & during that time he finally realized how painful it is.

You're telling me that sasuke doesnt notice the pain in susanoo until he gets worn down...:| Well what applies to sasuke must apply to madara seeing as the both have EMS. Therefore this is wrong unless you believe that madara has amazing stamina & can fight for extended periods of time with hashi wile maintaining susanoo.

4. First of all, prove that madara's chakra reserves are above sasuke & Itachi's. Just because he can use PS? Well that doesnt prove anything as you dont know how much chakra PS drains. What if my earlier statement is true & susanoo decreases chakra drainage significantly as you reach EMS? Then this entire post is shattered. Therefore making assumptions based on chakra levels is wrong when we dont even know how much chakra the jutsu in question drains on an EMS user.

Secondly we saw how easily sasuke was able to use susanoo while in EMS & you cant deny the fact that he sustained no fatigue. & what the hell is with that twisted example? KCM increases chakra capacity, this is a fact. Its not a fact whether PS drains chakra at an increased rate or not & that's simply something that you made up to help further your argument. So what if sasuke has average chakra levels, his susanoo might only drain 1% of that per minute, thereby giving him an hour of comfortable susanoo use. You dont know & I dont know either, this is merely an example of how you can be wrong when there are unknown variables.

5. Lol, this is all I wanted to hear, you never said that the odds are greater, you said that naruto dodges amaterasu. I said that he can get hit, you said how can he get hit if Naruto > A in terms of speed, using abc logic in this example is flawed. Just because someone is faster, doesnt mean they cant get hit & it seems like you got the point Lol.

6. As I said, its not for us to decide, we dont know what powers sasuke will get with PS so we cant say that he will lose or not, that's like saying prime hiruzen is top 10. We dont know if he is & that's why nobody puts him in a top 10 list.

7. Just because naruto is fast doesnt mean that he cant get hit, I know he's faster but there is still the potential to get hit by ama.

We havent seen how quickly it can shoot off its rapid fire, we dont know its limit. We dont know its range, we dont know if it's faster than susanoo arrow.

8. Missing the point my friend. Danzo was in the air, no izanagi & yes he had time to redirect the attack but my point lies in the circumstance, sasuke made use of advantage in which danzo couldnt evade. Who's to say he can come up with a similar strategy?

9. Ugh....You base you "low chakra reserve" sasuke on the one who uses MS. EMS is an upgrade & as I said you dont know how much chakra EMS actually drains, sasuke could quite possibly last longer than naruto could keep up BM (unlikely but possible), we just dont know.

10. I know they can, but he doesnt blitz every ninja, & why cant I compare them? This is a hypothetical situation, if I cant use madara's PS as a basis then please give me another PS to compare with

@Bold: You can't really say that now can you? Neither of us decides what sasuke can & can't get .

Sorry cant shorten it, if you want a shorter argument then you need to reply shorter.

 

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1. Maybe there's another option.. Its possible that MS jutsus decrease the amount of chakra it drains after awakening EMS? Just go reread sasuke vs kabuto & tell me if you see any sign of fatigue, this alone is enough to prove that sasuke's susanoo is less of a problem, if any at all.

& Btw the point doesnt have to do with his chakra capacity, this has to do with how long sasuke can keep susanoo up. I havent seen sasuke fatigue once while maintaining susanoo so you cant predict how long he can keep it up.

2. Okay, if you want to prove me wrong then show me an ems user who gets damaged while maintaining susanoo, if you do then you are right, until then this argument is not baseless as its been implied through countless pictures of EMS madara & sasuke inside of susanno with absolutely no physical strain done to their bodies.

3. Sasuke had already used susanoo several times before, and only exclaimed that statement about his cells now, when he was being worn down.

He made that statement when he was finally by himself with his own thoughs, he never had time to actually realize how painful susanoo is. It was sasuke's breather & during that time he finally realized how painful it is.

You're telling me that sasuke doesnt notice the pain in susanoo until he gets worn down...:| Well what applies to sasuke must apply to madara seeing as the both have EMS. Therefore this is wrong unless you believe that madara has amazing stamina & can fight for extended periods of time with hashi wile maintaining susanoo.

4. First of all, prove that madara's chakra reserves are above sasuke & Itachi's. Just because he can use PS? Well that doesnt prove anything as you dont know how much chakra PS drains. What if my earlier statement is true & susanoo decreases chakra drainage significantly as you reach EMS? Then this entire post is shattered. Therefore making assumptions based on chakra levels is wrong when we dont even know how much chakra the jutsu in question drains on an EMS user.

Secondly we saw how easily sasuke was able to use susanoo while in EMS & you cant deny the fact that he sustained no fatigue. & what the hell is with that twisted example? KCM increases chakra capacity, this is a fact. Its not a fact whether PS drains chakra at an increased rate or not & that's simply something that you made up to help further your argument. So what if sasuke has average chakra levels, his susanoo might only drain 1% of that per minute, thereby giving him an hour of comfortable susanoo use. You dont know & I dont know either, this is merely an example of how you can be wrong when there are unknown variables.

5. Lol, this is all I wanted to hear, you never said that the odds are greater, you said that naruto dodges amaterasu. I said that he can get hit, you said how can he get hit if Naruto > A in terms of speed, using abc logic in this example is flawed. Just because someone is faster, doesnt mean they cant get hit & it seems like you got the point Lol.

6. As I said, its not for us to decide, we dont know what powers sasuke will get with PS so we cant say that he will lose or not, that's like saying prime hiruzen is top 10. We dont know if he is & that's why nobody puts him in a top 10 list.

7. Just because naruto is fast doesnt mean that he cant get hit, I know he's faster but there is still the potential to get hit by ama.

We havent seen how quickly it can shoot off its rapid fire, we dont know its limit. We dont know its range, we dont know if it's faster than susanoo arrow.

8. Missing the point my friend. Danzo was in the air, no izanagi & yes he had time to redirect the attack but my point lies in the circumstance, sasuke made use of advantage in which danzo couldnt evade. Who's to say he can come up with a similar strategy?

9. Ugh....You base you "low chakra reserve" sasuke on the one who uses MS. EMS is an upgrade & as I said you dont know how much chakra EMS actually drains, sasuke could quite possibly last longer than naruto could keep up BM (unlikely but possible), we just dont know.

10. I know they can, but he doesnt blitz every ninja, & why cant I compare them? This is a hypothetical situation, if I cant use madara's PS as a basis then please give me another PS to compare with

@Bold: You can't really say that now can you? Neither of us decides what sasuke can & can't get .

Sorry cant shorten it, if you want a shorter argument then you need to reply shorter.

1. You clearly didn't read my post. Nor did you read Sasuke's quote. The more he uses it, the more pain he feels. Ever since the Kabuto fight, he hasn't used susanoo for more than a minute. There's no reason for him to be feeling any types of pain right now. Wait until he's forced to use susanoo for a prolonged period of time, and he'll be feeling it.

2. You want me to show you something that has only been achieved(on screen) by two ninja... Stop it. Neither have had enough panel time to show us any types of fatigue. Both time Sasuke showed fatigue with Susanoo was when he was low on chakra. Wait till Sasuke starts to run low on chakra.

3. My point exactly. There's not enough panel time for EMS Sasuke's susanoo. We can't tell with Madara because he looks beat up from when we first see him. Impossible to gauge his fatigue.

4. He fought Hashirama Senju toe-to-toe. He had the chakra to call down two consecutive meteors. That's within his chakra reserves, because edos can only use the chakra reserves they had when they were alive. They also fatigue, as proved with trollkage, and Lord Muu. So he used 2 meteors, and still had enough chakra to not look fatigued. Proof enough? That punches a hole in your argument.

How easily? Huh...? You mean the no fatigue in which he didn't even have his susanoo on for the entirety of. You mean the fight in which Itachi did a majority of the work, and Sasuke merely fired off Ameterasu. If PS took 1%, and Sasuke could only last 1 hour, that means Madara's chakra reserves were worlds above Sasuke's. Which, again, punches a hole in your whole theory in #4. Madara had his PS on for almost an entire day while fighting Hashirama.

5. I know what you meant when I read the response XD. I know for a fact it's possible for Naruto to get hit, but speed wise, if Sasuke couldn't even hit Ay, the odds of him hitting Naruto are slim to none.

6. Madara's FS had those swords, and had them again in PS. Thus we can deduce, whatever weapons you get in FS, you keep in PS.

7. Already addressed .

8. Chakra shroud to redirect. Naruto has already showcased a massive hand from Kurama, and Kurama mouth itself. We can even go old school and go back to when Naruto used a close to move himself mid-air.

9. EMS is an upgrade on his eye prowess! Not his chakra reserves! Until proven otherwise, it should be treated as such! There's absolutely no reason for to have gotten a chakra boost when all he did was sit there and heal.

10. You can use Madara's PS as a basis, but you can't add Sasuke's attacks to Madara's PS. That's just foolish.

We can say that, considering Madara had those swords in FS, then in PS. Sasuke has his own techs in FS, thus it's only logical he'll get them in PS. If he gets PS that is

Hopefully this was a bit shorter. *_*

 

[Sacrosanct]

Sasuke doesn't stand a chance against Naruto, especially now considering the fact that the Yang Kurama convinced Yin Kurama to give all the chakra to Naruto.

 

[BlackFlame44]

1. You clearly didn't read my post. Nor did you read Sasuke's quote. The more he uses it, the more pain he feels. Ever since the Kabuto fight, he hasn't used susanoo for more than a minute. There's no reason for him to be feeling any types of pain right now. Wait until he's forced to use susanoo for a prolonged period of time, and he'll be feeling it.

2. You want me to show you something that has only been achieved(on screen) by two ninja... Stop it. Neither have had enough panel time to show us any types of fatigue. Both time Sasuke showed fatigue with Susanoo was when he was low on chakra. Wait till Sasuke starts to run low on chakra.

3. My point exactly. There's not enough panel time for EMS Sasuke's susanoo. We can't tell with Madara because he looks beat up from when we first see him. Impossible to gauge his fatigue.

4. He fought Hashirama Senju toe-to-toe. He had the chakra to call down two consecutive meteors. That's within his chakra reserves, because edos can only use the chakra reserves they had when they were alive. They also fatigue, as proved with trollkage, and Lord Muu. So he used 2 meteors, and still had enough chakra to not look fatigued. Proof enough? That punches a hole in your argument.

How easily? Huh...? You mean the no fatigue in which he didn't even have his susanoo on for the entirety of. You mean the fight in which Itachi did a majority of the work, and Sasuke merely fired off Ameterasu. If PS took 1%, and Sasuke could only last 1 hour, that means Madara's chakra reserves were worlds above Sasuke's. Which, again, punches a hole in your whole theory in #4. Madara had his PS on for almost an entire day while fighting Hashirama.

5. I know what you meant when I read the response XD. I know for a fact it's possible for Naruto to get hit, but speed wise, if Sasuke couldn't even hit Ay, the odds of him hitting Naruto are slim to none.

6. Madara's FS had those swords, and had them again in PS. Thus we can deduce, whatever weapons you get in FS, you keep in PS.

7. Already addressed .

8. Chakra shroud to redirect. Naruto has already showcased a massive hand from Kurama, and Kurama mouth itself. We can even go old school and go back to when Naruto used a close to move himself mid-air.

9. EMS is an upgrade on his eye prowess! Not his chakra reserves! Until proven otherwise, it should be treated as such! There's absolutely no reason for to have gotten a chakra boost when all he did was sit there and heal.

10. You can use Madara's PS as a basis, but you can't add Sasuke's attacks to Madara's PS. That's just foolish.

We can say that, considering Madara had those swords in FS, then in PS. Sasuke has his own techs in FS, thus it's only logical he'll get them in PS. If he gets PS that is

Hopefully this was a bit shorter. *_*

What people don't get is that PS is already FS...

What they don't want to believe is that madara is truly a cut above the rest even though it was stated by tobi and proven in the manga