[Discussion] who the strongest of the supernovas

[OG sama]

Who said that Snack is weaker than Urouge? You people mentioned before that Big Mom sent Cracker after Snack was defeated, and that means that Cracker is stronger than Snack, but that only makes sense if Urouge defeated Snack with so little difficultly that he didn't lose any strength or wasn't weakened at all.

How do you lot know that Urouge didn't get the shit beat out of him during the fight, and any Commander could have done the job because he had nothing left in the tank? How do you know that Cracker isn't weaker than Snack and only beat Urouge because Urouge exhausted himself against Snack? Too many variables are wide open here.

Not true, it would only make sense for BM to send the next strongest to deal with Urouge regardless of his condition. I'm pretty sure he probably did win with extreme diff or something if it in fact was a 1v1. I had a feeling someone would bring up his condition. Also there's no way for any of us to know 100% who is stronger between Cracker or Snack but I think it's pretty safe to assume Cracker is stronger, if Snack was stronger I doubt the author wouldn't let us know.

 

[-Akuma-]

How does beating a weaker SC than Cracker make Urouge stronger than Luffy? G4 Luffy held up well against Cracker before it timed out, you seriously think that the gap between Cracker and G4 Luffy is so big that even Snack and Urouge, a fellow SN would beat him?

Snack, Urouge, and Luffy should all be on the same level at least if we go by this logic, and that would make sense.

G4 Luffy was noticeably below Cracker without Nami's assistance. Cracker was easily reacting to Luffy while putting damage on Luffy, the gap is big enough for other fighters to be weaker than Cracker and stronger than Luffy.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Not true, it would only make sense for BM to send the next strongest to deal with Urouge regardless of his condition. I'm pretty sure he probably did win with extreme diff or something if it in fact was a 1v1. I had a feeling someone would bring up his condition. Also there's no way for any of us to know 100% who is stronger between Cracker or Snack but I think it's pretty safe to assume Cracker is stronger, if Snack was stronger I doubt the author wouldn't let us know.

Like I said before, that only makes sense if either Urouge defeated Cracker and was still in top shape, meaning he defeated him easily, or if Big Mom waited for Urouge to regain his strength before another Commander was sent to face him.

If it was an extreme diff, that means Urouge would be majorly weakened by the time Cracker would sent, so it wouldn't matter if Cracker was stronger or weaker than Snack because Urouge was weak enough for Cracker after expending himself defeating Snack. And you have no proof that this isn't the case, making you talking about Snack as the weakest baseless.

You say Oda wouldn't neglect telling us that Cracker is weaker than Snack if that was the case, but that's hypocritical because Oda never told us Snack was weaker than Cracker.

 

[OG sama]

G4 Luffy was noticeably below Cracker without Nami's assistance. Cracker was easily reacting to Luffy while putting damage on Luffy, the gap is big enough for other fighters to be weaker than Cracker and stronger than Luffy.

I disagree, the only edge Cracker had was in the stamina department, that damage Cracker inflicted to Luffy although threatening, was superficial at best. G4 was plowing through his clones easily with King organ, the only problem was that he kept sending an infinite supply of clones and G4 just doesn't last long enough.

Also when Cracker couldn't rely on the clones he was pretty much one shotted by Luffy.

 

[-Akuma-]

I disagree, the only edge Cracker had was in the stamina department, that damage Cracker inflicted to Luffy although threatening, was superficial at best. G4 was plowing through his clones easily with King organ, the only problem was that he kept sending an infinite supply of clones and G4 just doesn't last long enough.

Also when Cracker couldn't rely on the clones he was pretty much one shotted by Luffy.

Cracker was shown that he could easily break through Luffy's haki, a clean hit if ****ing Luffy up. It took Luffy a whole Organ Gun just to plow through one line of clones which is something Cracker can easily make, Luffy was not getting through that clones let alone getting through easily. Cracker sitting behind clones is how he fights and if Luffy can't get past that and hurt Cracker the gap between them is noticeable.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I disagree, the only edge Cracker had was in the stamina department, that damage Cracker inflicted to Luffy although threatening, was superficial at best. G4 was plowing through his clones easily with King organ, the only problem was that he kept sending an infinite supply of clones and G4 just doesn't last long enough.

Also when Cracker couldn't rely on the clones he was pretty much one shotted by Luffy.

So Cracker can't deal more than superficial damage to Luffy, Luffy was busting through Cracker's biscuits effortlessly, and Cracker only edges out in stamina? That's why Luffy didn't spend 11 hours running and hiding from Cracker right? That's why Luffy smashed through Cracker's biscuits with his superior speed, durability, power, and strength and just straight knocked the shit out of him, right? What manga are y'all reading laughing my ****ing ass off

 

[OG sama]

Like I said before, that only makes sense if either Urouge defeated Cracker and was still in top shape, meaning he defeated him easily, or if Big Mom waited for Urouge to regain his strength before another Commander was sent to face him.

If it was an extreme diff, that means Urouge would be majorly weakened by the time Cracker would sent, so it wouldn't matter if Cracker was stronger or weaker than Snack because Urouge was weak enough for Cracker after expending himself defeating Snack. And you have no proof that this isn't the case, making you talking about Snack as the weakest baseless.

You say Oda wouldn't neglect telling us that Cracker is weaker than Snack if that was the case, but that's hypocritical because Oda never told us Snack was weaker than Cracker.

It's just like I said then, there's no way for us to know either way. But if Snack was supposed to be stronger or more important than Cracker he would still be active right now. But the fact that Oda had Urouge beat him and now we don't know what happened to him suggest that he wasn't very significant which could imply he wasn't stronger.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It's just like I said then, there's no way for us to know either way.

Except we have manga statements that lean towards one particular way. So unless we get further information that retcons that, we have to go that way. Even if you have DOUBT, as I said to Chopstick, you don't have enough to dismiss, even if you do so in a neutral fashion.

But if Snack was supposed to be stronger or more important than Cracker he would still be active right now

That's not true at all, considering that Cracker is currently out of the picture and we haven't seen Big Mom's full forces since they're likely to come back later.

]But the fact that Oda had Urouge beat him and now we don't know what happened to him suggest that he wasn't very significant which could imply he wasn't stronger.

By this logic, Ace>Roger because we saw Ace get defeated by Whitebeard on-screen but never saw Whitebeard square off with Roger on-screen.

 

[OG sama]

Cracker was shown that he could easily break through Luffy's haki, a clean hit if ****ing Luffy up. It took Luffy a whole Organ Gun just to plow through one line of clones which is something Cracker can easily make, Luffy was not getting through that clones let alone getting through easily. Cracker sitting behind clones is how he fights and if Luffy can't get past that and hurt Cracker the gap between them is noticeable.

You act like the shit cut his hand completely off it didn't, he felt the pain and shook it off and kept fighting. And not only that but he was caught off guard because he was fighting an enemy he had no intel on. Cracker never landed a clean hit on G4 ever after that. Instead deciding to hide behind a shit ton of clones because he knew his real body didn't stand a chance against G4 in a 1v1 brawl.

So Cracker can't deal more than superficial damage to Luffy, Luffy was busting through Cracker's biscuits effortlessly, and Cracker only edges out in stamina? That's why Luffy didn't spend 11 hours running and hiding from Cracker right? That's why Luffy smashed through Cracker's biscuits with his superior speed, durability, power, and strength and just straight knocked the shit out of him, right? What manga are y'all reading laughing my ****ing ass off

Its not that he wouldn't be able to deal significant damage it's that he isn't landing clean hits on G4 because he isn't faster or stronger. He was running and hiding because G4 ran out, that implies he ran out of stamina does it not? What manga am I reading? What manga are you reading? Luffy would have destroyed those clones if Cracker hadn't decided to all of a sudden send them away.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You act like the shit cut his hand completely off it didn't, he felt the pain and shook it off and kept fighting. And not only that but he was caught off guard because he was fighting an enemy he had no intel on. Cracker never landed a clean hit on G4 ever after that. Instead deciding to hide behind a shit ton of clones because he knew his real body didn't stand a chance against G4 in a 1v1 brawl.



Its not that he wouldn't be able to deal significant damage it's that he isn't landing clean hits on G4 because he isn't faster or stronger. He was running and hiding because G4 ran out, that implies he ran out of stamina does it not? What manga am I reading? What manga are you reading? Luffy would have destroyed those clones if Cracker hadn't decided to all of a sudden send them away.

I can't believe you don't see the flaw in this lmao. If Cracker can't keep up with Luffy speed-wise and strength-wise, then Luffy would have demolished him before the 11 hours were up. Cracker lasted 11 hours and forced Luffy into running by...having bigger stamina? One hit from Luffy knocked him out, you really think Luffy was eclipsing Cracker in EVERY category, and then didn't knock him out because....he just wanted to **** around? Your shit makes exactly zero sense.

 

[OG sama]

Except we have manga statements that lean towards one particular way. So unless we get further information that retcons that, we have to go that way. Even if you have DOUBT, as I said to Chopstick, you don't have enough to dismiss, even if you do so in a neutral fashion.


That's not true at all, considering that Cracker is currently out of the picture and we haven't seen Big Mom's full forces since they're likely to come back later.


By this logic, Ace>Roger because we saw Ace get defeated by Whitebeard on-screen but never saw Whitebeard square off with Roger on-screen.

What?

It is true, if any of BMs other 100 or so crew members were important that we didn't see already they would be shown. Just like how Katakuri, Smoothie, Cracker, perospero etc were all shown. The rest are likely to just be small fry compared to the ones we have seen.

This logic is ****ing garbage and you know it. Roger is the ****ing Pirate King and Aces dad who was stated to be on the same level as a Prime Whitebeard. Snack doesn't have any hype or anything going for him except the fact that he was a Sweet commander.

 

[OG sama]

I can't believe you don't see the flaw in this lmao. If Cracker can't keep up with Luffy speed-wise and strength-wise, then Luffy would have demolished him before the 11 hours were up. Cracker lasted 11 hours and forced Luffy into running by...having bigger stamina? One hit from Luffy knocked him out, you really think Luffy was eclipsing Cracker in EVERY category, and then didn't knock him out because....he just wanted to **** around? Your shit makes exactly zero sense.

You must be some really special kind of stupid, I mean seriously then you even read my post? He hid behind a shit ton of clones. I never said G4 was so overwhelming stronger than Cracker or his defenses. G4 only last like 20 minutes Cracker can fight for like 11+ hours, that's clearly stamina..

You act like I said G4 could low diff Cracker, I just said that there's not a big gap difference between them.

 

[-Akuma-]

You act like the shit cut his hand completely off it didn't, he felt the pain and shook it off and kept fighting. And not only that but he was caught off guard because he was fighting an enemy he had no intel on. Cracker never landed a clean hit on G4 ever after that. Instead deciding to hide behind a shit ton of clones because he knew his real body didn't stand a chance against G4 in a 1v1 brawl.



Its not that he wouldn't be able to deal significant damage it's that he isn't landing clean hits on G4 because he isn't faster or stronger. He was running and hiding because G4 ran out, that implies he ran out of stamina does it not? What manga am I reading? What manga are you reading? Luffy would have destroyed those clones if Cracker hadn't decided to all of a sudden send them away.

The point is that he can cut off his hand and he is capable of doing so. Cracker never hit Luffy afterwards because soon after they start ****ing with his biscuits. While you're saying Cracker hid behind his clones because he couldn't **** with Luffy, but he really did that because he hates pain. Hiding behind clones is his fighting style, Luffy can't deal with that and just because isn't a brawler doesn't mean he's below Luffy.

 

[Punk Hazard]

What?

The current manga says Urouge defeated Snack one vs one.

It is true, if any of BMs other 100 or so crew members were important that we didn't see already they would be shown. Just like how Katakuri, Smoothie, Cracker, perospero etc were all shown. The rest are likely to just be small fry compared to the ones we have seen.

This doesn't mean that Snack is done. Hell, we don't even know if Snack is alive.

This logic is ****ing garbage and you know it. Roger is the ****ing Pirate King and Aces dad who was stated to be on the same level as a Prime Whitebeard. Snack doesn't have any hype or anything going for him except the fact that he was a Sweet commander.

That's the point though. I know Roger is an extremely important character. That's why I used him as my example: Your logic that we saw a character getting defeated on-screen means they're more important than one who was off-screen doesn't work because these terms can be applied to Roger and Ace, and yet the former is more important than the latter. The fact that Roger isn't unimportant even though any defeats he had to WB weren't shown on-screen shows that your logic doesn't work, since that condition is what you're using to show that Snack isn't as important.

 

[Uzumaki sensei]

That's not fully correct. He started running when the commotion started and barely survived BC.
Next thing we heard that he was taken by Marines and most probably trained by them to become an admiral/VA lvl kind of guy for future.


He fought him pre TS. That guy was guarding some factory and Drake beating him is basically like Challenging Kaido's authority. Nobody knows how Kaido would have reacted.
Even his fight with Pacifista showed he is either at same lvl(in terms of strength) as Urogue or even higher than him.

Even if we go by the theory Kaido's commanders follow cards pattern i.e king, Queen, Jack then X-Drake is next strongest guy in Kaido's crew. So yeah he is given good share of hype.

he wasnt trained to vice admiral or amiral level he was trained as a rear adrimal which just above tashigi level when he left the marines and the fact that he beat a underling does nothing for him and we dont knoe whos next in strength after the king queen and jack so you cant just say he the next strongest

 

[Punk Hazard]

You must be some really special kind of stupid, I mean seriously then you even read my post? He hid behind a shit ton of clones. I never said G4 was so overwhelming stronger than Cracker or his defenses. G4 only last like 20 minutes Cracker can fight for like 11+ hours, that's clearly stamina..

You act like I said G4 could low diff Cracker, I just said that there's not a big gap difference between them.

You also said Luffy smashes through those clones without effort and that Cracker and his biscuits can't keep up with Luffy. You're contradicting yourself, and your logic makes no sense with what we've seen in the manga.

You're completely wrong btw. Cracker's biscuits completely withstand Gum Gum Organ[

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]. Cracker's biscuits also had the speed to parry Luffy's attack[

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], and even though it crumbled it still matched his speed to perform the maneuver in the first place.

 

[OG sama]

The point is that he can cut off his hand and he is capable of doing so. Cracker never hit Luffy afterwards because soon after they start ****ing with his biscuits. While you're saying Cracker hid behind his clones because he couldn't **** with Luffy, but he really did that because he hates pain. Hiding behind clones is his fighting style, Luffy can't deal with that and just because isn't a brawler doesn't mean he's below Luffy.

Exactly just like how G4 Luffy was capable of one shotting Cracker much earlier into their battle if the opportunity presented its self. But neither was going to make it easier on each other to do so, which is my point that there's not a big difference in power between them.

The current manga says Urouge defeated Snack one vs one.


This doesn't mean that Snack is done. Hell, we don't even know if Snack is alive.



That's the point though. I know Roger is an extremely important character. That's why I used him as my example: Your logic that we saw a character getting defeated on-screen means they're more important than one who was off-screen doesn't work because these terms can be applied to Roger and Ace, and yet the former is more important than the latter. The fact that Roger isn't unimportant even though any defeats he had to WB weren't shown on-screen shows that your logic doesn't work, since that condition is what you're using to show that Snack isn't as important.

Agreed

Realize how both Cracker and Snack took Ls and weren't seen again. Something strange happened for sure.

I see what your saying but Snack was just known as some SC other than that he has no other info. It's highly unlikely to me given everything I explained to you, that he's stronger than Cracker.

 

[OG sama]

You also said Luffy smashes through those clones without effort and that Cracker and his biscuits can't keep up with Luffy. You're contradicting yourself, and your logic makes no sense with what we've seen in the manga.

You're completely wrong btw. Cracker's biscuits completely withstand Gum Gum Organ[

You must be registered for see links

]. Cracker's biscuits also had the speed to parry Luffy's attack[

You must be registered for see links

], and even though it crumbled it still matched his speed to perform the maneuver in the first place.

He can deal with one or two pretty easily but 5 or 10 just makes it a lot more difficult that's what I meant he can still handle them without hardly any issues.

They didn't completely withstand shit, you can clearly see the shields crumbling in that image. Cracker was using those things as diversions so he himself could jump in and get a clean hit which failed as well. That clone also didn't parry shit, it literally got punched in half on the next page. Imagine if he didn't send them away, they would have been destroyed just like the shields were about to be.

 

[Punk Hazard]

He can deal with one or two pretty easily but 5 or 10 just makes it a lot more difficult that's what I meant he can still handle them without hardly any issues.

And yet, smashing one of them resulted in Luffy nearly losing an arm.

They didn't completely withstand shit, you can clearly see the shields crumbling in that image.

The shields crumbled, the BISCUIT SOLDIERS withstood it.

Cracker was using those things as diversions so he himself could jump in and get a clean hit which failed as well.

Forcing Luffy to narrowly dodge. Wow, such a gap in speed!

Imagine if he didn't send them away, they would have been destroyed just like the shields were about to be.

What the hell are you talking about? He didn't send them away, he charged in on Luffy while they were advancing towards Luffy and blocking the biscuits.

You must be registered for see images

 

[OG sama]

And yet, smashing one of them resulted in Luffy nearly losing an arm.



The shields crumbled, the BISCUIT SOLDIERS withstood it.



Forcing Luffy to narrowly dodge. Wow, such a gap in speed!


What the hell are you talking about? He didn't send them away, he charged in on Luffy while they were advancing towards Luffy and blocking the biscuits.

You must be registered for see images

Yeah because he had no intel, he was fighting a guy he never fought before. How in the hell was he suppose to know the Cracker he was fighting was not the real one? But the real one was inside him.

They never withstood anything because they never got hit, the shields were breaking and the clones were going to be next.

He used the clones to get in close, that's all I'm saying.

They were charging in while their shields were getting destroyed, Cracker realized this and jumped out in front of them to get a hit in. In one panel he's telling them to advance and then in the one after the next there gone. What about that is hard to understand? Its in the manga page you provided.