Doflamingo and Smoker took the exact same "precaution" when facing Law: They immediately engaged him up close, leaving few windows for him to exploit his powers, and whenever they maintained this engagement, Law lost the edge hax gives. Luffy doesn't fight like that. Luffy has gaps in his engagement and even within his methods of attack that Law can take advantage of. Doflamingo faced similar instances, such as when Law hit Injection Shot on him. Remove plot-induced stupidity that hold back bigger, more hax attacks like the slice that cut Vergo, and Luffy is at a disadvantage.
This isn't even completely true. This is why I said look up what plot-induced stupidity is. Look at this page for instance:
You must be registered for see images
In this page, Law had the perfect chance to use Chambres to send Doffy into the water at the bottom of the room by switching him with the water instead of switching him with himself. That's within Law's feats, but couldn't be done because that's not in the best interest of the story. This is kind of thing is what I'm talking about: Usages of the fruit that are available to Law, even if he doesn't in the manga because the plot is more important.
That's not at all what I'm suggesting. What I'm suggesting is that there are usages of the Ope Ope no Mi available to Law that are WITHIN feats shown so far, even if doing so wasn't explicitly shown in the manga.
The example I gave above is an example. Law has never teleported a person into water, meaning he's never displayed that feat, but we know that he CAN and that it's WITHIN his power to do so by looking at other feats he's done. Can Law teleport Doflamingo? Yes. Can Law's powers affect water? Check. Was the Room low enough to the water? Yes. All of these are separate feats that when taken together, shows a usage of Law's powers that are within his abilities, even if it wasn't shown to be done within the manga. It's the same as when people say Law can teleport Zoro's swords away when they fight. He's never actually done that in the manga, but we have other feats that shows that he COULD.
That wasn't me being proven wrong. When I made that argument, Luffy going Gear Fourth near instantly wasn't an established thing in the manga. You can't be "wrong" when you're going by manga info and that info is later retconned.
No. I'm talking about the gaps in his attacks that I know I've shown you before. Also, considering the fact that Law took three consecutive beatings from Doflamingo and not only survived them, but was also able to remain conscious for a vast majority of it while Fujitora was part of one of them and also while using a power that drains his stamina, I'm sure he can make it through a Gear Fourth beating.
Luffy is a cqc fighter, every attack he makes is apunch needs to be close to law in order to do that. Doffy is actually more of a ranged fighter than even luffy. Law is in even more of a disadvantage. Luffy has seen law's power up close and even collaborated with him. its not like he doesnt know what ope ope does, he worked seamlessly with law.
This is all with him being even faster than a base doffy, which would make luffy an even worse matchup.
so are u saying in his fight with doffy he should have been able to damage or even beat doffy but couldnt because of plot? I am not referring to him transporting doffy to the bottom of the ocean.
no u refused to acknowledge that luffy wouldnt need time even after it was shown in his round 2 G4 against doffy where he used the form instantaneously. and the first time, the reason it seemed like it was taking a while was due to oda wanting to slowly reveal it for hype puproses.
Gaps in his attacks doesnt hold up as an argument he can continuously attack for a while and also can fly in G4 which makes teleporting him very difficult.
he was conscious by being deceptive, doffy thought he was dead etc. doffy soloed him pretty fast and then slowly shot him , if he actually wanted to tear law to shreds he couldve done so but he was trying to be more sadistic etc. in a matchup like this there is no mercy etc. law is not nearly that durable a good round of hits from G4 would be enough to beat him.
None of what he says makes sense. And if I have an opinion about anything, I'll inform everybody that it is my opinion unlike you parrot that blindly follows Riker and call a manga page I posted fanfic.
Wha? Are you so blinded by your temper tantrum that you've forgotten that A)You never posted a manga page and B)You were the one that accused Vandereich of posting a fanfic, not the other way around?
You can start by stfu with that stupid fanfic here before I deal with you again. I said I don't give a **** about his opinions, I don't want to open my notifications to see rubbish such as this.
So you can keep just quite, you're nothing more than just Riker's parrot who regurgitates the last five sentences he says.
Wha? Are you so blinded by your temper tantrum that you've forgotten that A)You never posted a manga page and B)You were the one that accused Vandereich of posting a fanfic, not the other way around?
Anyways, it's not fanfic, Luffy has regained stamina on-panel by eating:
You must be registered for see images
Luffy himself even states that Gear Fourth runs on calories
hes not exactly like a video game character his injuries dont disappear after eating food, and with cracker he ate all those biscuits but still needed to run around for hours, by your logic he should be able to use G4 over and over again if he ate what he did.
None of what he says makes sense. And if I have an opinion about anything, I'll inform everybody that it is my opinion unlike you parrot that blindly follows Riker and call a manga page I posted fanfic. So keep quite with your crap. You went out of your way to quote me and you're calling me a warrior, very hypocritical of you.
Last time I checked you're not Lbreezy either. So shut up, I'm relying to him and not you.
So....you're a LBreezy parrot? You keep mentioning him for some reason. Guess what? I disagree with the things you say and you go crazy with the typing. Numerous times has Luffy recovered thanks to food...that is a guaranteed fact and you keep saying that's fanfiction because it doesn't suit your argument. Simple as that. More insults from the warrior please.
Luffy is a cqc fighter, every attack he makes is apunch needs to be close to law in order to do that. Doffy is actually more of a ranged fighter than even luffy. Law is in even more of a disadvantage. Luffy has seen law's power up close and even collaborated with him. its not like he doesnt know what ope ope does, he worked seamlessly with law.
Luffy is a CQC fighter, but he's not a relentless one. There are gaps in his fighting style where he'll let up his assault while the opponent is still ready to strike. Doflamingo let up against Law in the same way, and was struck by injection Shot.
This is all with him being even faster than a base doffy, which would make luffy an even worse matchup.
Not really. A half-dead Doflamingo with decreased physical capabilities was still able to keep up with Luffy's movements, blocking, dodging, and blitzing Luffy at one point. And Law was keeping up with a full-powered Doflamingo who had no impedements on his abilities.
so are u saying in his fight with doffy he should have been able to damage or even beat doffy but couldnt because of plot? I am not referring to him transporting doffy to the bottom of the ocean.
I'm saying that Law suffers the same thing many hax characters do: Plot-induced stupidity. I'm saying that there are things Law can do via hax that make up for a gap in raw power, but is often limited by the plot from doing so. The scan of the Room in water is ONE example. Law using Injection Shot instead of his massive slash is another. You can find countless of these for pretty much any character.
no u refused to acknowledge that luffy wouldnt need time even after it was shown in his round 2 G4 against doffy where he used the form instantaneously. and the first time, the reason it seemed like it was taking a while was due to oda wanting to slowly reveal it for hype puproses.
Because that's not being established. Something being established in the manga is that thing happening multiple times, showing that it's an actual element that will be recurring. "Instant" Gear Fourth wasn't established until Luffy clashed with Big Mom.
Gaps in his attacks doesnt hold up as an argument he can continuously attack for a while and also can fly in G4 which makes teleporting him very difficult.
No he can't. Every one of Luffy's attacks in Gear Fourth has involved wind-up(hang time), a large release, and more hang-time as he prepares the next attack. Luffy winding up a Kong Gun or a Rhino Schneider are perfect moments for Law to teleport out of their path and release his own attack as Luffy's releases into dead air.
hes not exactly like a video game character his injuries dont disappear after eating food, and with cracker he ate all those biscuits but still needed to run around for hours, by your logic he should be able to use G4 over and over again if he ate what he did.
That's exactly what Luffy did. He ate the biscuits and used the calories he gained from them to sustain his Gear Fourth during the 11 hours to survive. This happened to Luffy without Gear Fourth against one of Cracker's soldiers, there's no way he's running around eating and escaping from groups of them with Cracker himself out as well without Gear Fourth:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
The rest of the other page I posted btw, Luffy states he's revived from eating:
Why do u think Zoro is above Kid???
Pre TS kid was potrayed in same category as Law and Luffy were shown. So y did u put Kid so low???
He was a rear admiral before becoming a pirate.
His strength pre TS against Pacifista can't be ignored,
He also single handedly stopped a rebellion started by Caribou and it destroyed the whole area,
Defeated kaido's underling pre TS just to meet him,
Survived Bird Cage etc.
He hasn't shown much but hype wise he is definitely in top 5 currently.
he survive the birdcage because he was hiding until doffy took it own
he fought an underling not a yonko commander if it was on of the top then yeah id give him that
So....you're a LBreezy parrot? You keep mentioning him for some reason. Guess what? I disagree with the things you say and you go crazy with the typing. Numerous times has Luffy recovered thanks to food...that is a guaranteed fact and you keep saying that's fanfiction because it doesn't suit your argument. Simple as that. More insults from the warrior please.
Exactly. All the insults makes them look soooo intimidating....he's gonna ask for my address soon enough.
I replied to Lbreezy not repeat everything he says like a parrot you moron. The **** you're stupid, that didn't even make any sense nor do you understand context.
And I can give a shit less on what you disagree with or agree with, that's why I replied to Lbreezy's comment on the supernovas and not yours, stupid.
Luffy ate a ton crackers from Cracker and he didn't recover thanks to those crackers he ate, he still maintained injuries and said he was using too much energy too. So there's a limit.
Like I said stfu and stop replying me, my business and conversation is with him not you, because I can care less about you and your idiotic master's opinion.
I replied to Lbreezy not repeat everything he says like a parrot you moron. The **** you're stupid, that didn't even make any sense nor do you understand context.
And I can give a shit less on what you disagree with or agree with, that's why I replied to Lbreezy's comment on the supernovas and not yours, stupid.
Luffy ate a ton crackers from Cracker and he didn't recover thanks to those crackers he ate, he still maintained injuries and said he was using too much energy too. So there's a limit.
Like I said stfu and stop replying me, my business and conversation is with him not you, because I can care less about you and your idiotic master's opinion.
If you don't care, why do you reply to me and with such hostility? You cant say you don't care only to show me so much attention. You sound like someone who got horribly rejected......oh and good luck with your...."business" aka online postings.....
I replied to Lbreezy not repeat everything he says like a parrot you moron. The **** you're stupid, that didn't even make any sense nor do you understand context.
And I can give a shit less on what you disagree with or agree with, that's why I replied to Lbreezy's comment on the supernovas and not yours, stupid.
Luffy ate a ton crackers from Cracker and he didn't recover thanks to those crackers he ate, he still maintained injuries and said he was using too much energy too. So there's a limit.
Like I said stfu and stop replying me, my business and conversation is with him not you, because I can care less about you and your idiotic master's opinion.
That's not fully correct. He started running when the commotion started and barely survived BC.
Next thing we heard that he was taken by Marines and most probably trained by them to become an admiral/VA lvl kind of guy for future.
he fought an underling not a yonko commander if it was on of the top then yeah id give him that
He fought him pre TS. That guy was guarding some factory and Drake beating him is basically like Challenging Kaido's authority. Nobody knows how Kaido would have reacted.
Even his fight with Pacifista showed he is either at same lvl(in terms of strength) as Urogue or even higher than him.
Even if we go by the theory Kaido's commanders follow cards pattern i.e king, Queen, Jack then X-Drake is next strongest guy in Kaido's crew. So yeah he is given good share of hype.
Luffy is a CQC fighter, but he's not a relentless one. There are gaps in his fighting style where he'll let up his assault while the opponent is still ready to strike. Doflamingo let up against Law in the same way, and was struck by injection Shot.
Not really. A half-dead Doflamingo with decreased physical capabilities was still able to keep up with Luffy's movements, blocking, dodging, and blitzing Luffy at one point. And Law was keeping up with a full-powered Doflamingo who had no impedements on his abilities.
I'm saying that Law suffers the same thing many hax characters do: Plot-induced stupidity. I'm saying that there are things Law can do via hax that make up for a gap in raw power, but is often limited by the plot from doing so. The scan of the Room in water is ONE example. Law using Injection Shot instead of his massive slash is another. You can find countless of these for pretty much any character.
Because that's not being established. Something being established in the manga is that thing happening multiple times, showing that it's an actual element that will be recurring. "Instant" Gear Fourth wasn't established until Luffy clashed with Big Mom.
No he can't. Every one of Luffy's attacks in Gear Fourth has involved wind-up(hang time), a large release, and more hang-time as he prepares the next attack. Luffy winding up a Kong Gun or a Rhino Schneider are perfect moments for Law to teleport out of their path and release his own attack as Luffy's releases into dead air.
That's exactly what Luffy did. He ate the biscuits and used the calories he gained from them to sustain his Gear Fourth during the 11 hours to survive. This happened to Luffy without Gear Fourth against one of Cracker's soldiers, there's no way he's running around eating and escaping from groups of them with Cracker himself out as well without Gear Fourth:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
The rest of the other page I posted btw, Luffy states he's revived from eating:
Dude he is relentless, his G4 fighting style or any for that matter is a lot of punching endlessly. And he can fly and is fast so law is at a major disadvantage.
Luffy took on a doffy going all out using his awakening which turned whole towns into his weapons and he was still able to dodge and keep up due to his speed, law got low to mid diffed by doffy and didn't even have to go all out. Awakening abilities aren't limited by his injuries. Doffys injuries played a part in his downfall but it's undeniable that in G4 luffy out matched him in raw power and speed. So that's all just a recipe for disaster for law. Keep talking about bs gaps all u want, the only times law got a hit on doffy was when doffy underestimated the crap out of him or when law was playing dead and luffy had to help him. Those are not impressive at all. We have to go on feats not his theoretical abilities.
Yes if law is fighting near the ocean he should beat even white beard with his hax.
It was instantaneous the second time around , what more do u need than luffy pulling it off real fast. It was crap argument from u and you kno it.
And luffy is going to use his slowest attacks when it won't work, his normal wind up attacks in G 4 are fast the whole mechanism is fast, yes the ultimate attacks he used at the end are slower but that is not necessary to deal with law who isn't nearly as tough as doffy. Luffy by default uses normal punches like he did against cracker and others, he doesn't start with his ultimate attacks. And luffy is a fast moving target while he is attacking so law isn't just gonna solo him like vergo who was easy to read with a straightforward basic final attack, luffys style in G4 is a lot harder to predict due to his unorthodox mobility.
He ran and we know him eating doesn't take a long time, he even had homies helping him as a distraction, it's not instantaneous there is a time period required for him to be able to use G4. You're making him sound like link from Zelda that's not exactly what he is he can regain energy faster but doesn't magically just recover from injuries or be able to use G4 again immediately after eating. There is some time in between where he needs to convert the energy he ate otherwise he wouldn't he ran for a good period of time. We all know he recovers energy faster but it's not on the level u say it is and doesn't heal him.
Fair point, even Gatz and Dressrosa citizens gave credit to Luffy rather than Law & Luffy. You didn't hear them shouting "our saviors" even though Law played just as big a role.
Yeah bro.. and just like you said earlier, it's not like characters are going to go around saying that "Cracker was brought down by Luffy and Nami/his Navigator/Crew Member." and if they do, cool... But most likely it'll be reported as "Straw Hat Luffy defeated Big Mom's Sweet Commander Cracker!".. just like the Doflamingo situation.
The difference is we know Luffy didn't take down Doffy alone. It's possible that Urouge had help his crew would have been with him. It would be fair to put Urouge and Luffy on the same level.
I was simply bringing up the possibility and look at how certain members started acting.. lol the manga proved that the way characters talk about other characters being beaten isn't 100% accurate or reliable.. so while it is still unknown if Urouge took down Snack in a 1v1 or with help, the bottom line is that it remains a mystery until further notice.. therefore people can't use that "feat" as a fact to try and judge how strong he is compared to other Supernova.. simple as that.
I don't believe nami making it rain was considered significant help either but the funny part is that Urouge fought the weakest commander and needed to recover his injuries in the cloud while luffy beats one stronger than him, then proceeds to fight an army and crash a party.
Not to mention he also let one of his strongest crew members beat on him, without fighting back.. lol
That's why it's purely laughable that some people are trying to put Urouge above Luffy based on their crazy assumption of what is a "feat".. lol... all I can say to them is, ain't no proven feat bihh.. xd
Dude he is relentless, his G4 fighting style or any for that matter is a lot of punching endlessly. And he can fly and is fast so law is at a major disadvantage.
Gear Fourth isn't relentless though. "Relentless" is Luffy using Gear Fourth against Blueno for the first time where every time he hit an attack, he immediately followed up with another attack WHILE Blueno was still reeling.
Luffy took on a doffy going all out using his awakening which turned whole towns into his weapons and he was still able to dodge and keep up due to his speed, law got low to mid diffed by doffy and didn't even have to go all out. Awakening abilities aren't limited by his injuries. Doffys injuries played a part in his downfall but it's undeniable that in G4 luffy out matched him in raw power and speed.
Not only did you completely miss the point of what I said, but you're also wrong about Luffy outclassing Doflamingo in speed. Doflamingo's disadvantage against Gear Fourth was never that he wasn't fast enough for Gear Fourth, it was that he was incapable of producing the same raw power that Gear Fourth could. So even though he was fast enough to react to and move in tandem with Gear Fourth, allowing him to block attacks by moving his arms and activating Haki, he wasn't able to generate enough brute force of his own for the blocks to be effective.
The relevance of this is that a weakened Doffy has shown the ability to keep up with Gear Fourth speed wise, and Law can keep up with a fully healthy Doffy with no physical limitations. That shows that Law has the ability to react to Gear Fourth Luffy. He can get around the fact that Luffy produces more raw power than him by using his ability to teleport to avoid being hit by Luffy. Unlike Doflamingo, Law doesn't need to try to block Luffy's power, he can evade it altogether with Chambres.
So that's all just a recipe for disaster for law. Keep talking about bs gaps all u want
Not at all, considering we saw Luffy do the exact same Muscle Balloon process for Tankman, and it was reasonable to assume at that time that it was off-paneled.
And luffy is going to use his slowest attacks when it won't work, his normal wind up attacks in G 4 are fast the whole mechanism is fast
Nope. Luffy's Gear Fourth relies on a wind-up mechanism and a burst of speed from his feet that stuns the opponent. Once the opponent is stunned, he can charge up his next-attack and repeat the process. This kind of fighting is dangerous against Law because Law doesn't have to block, he can just teleport and avoid it completely.
yes the ultimate attacks he used at the end are slower but that is not necessary to deal with law who isn't nearly as tough as doffy. Luffy by default uses normal punches like he did against cracker and others, he doesn't start with his ultimate attacks.
Same as above. Even if it's a normal punch, Law still has the option of teleporting himself while Luffy is charging. This changes nothing.
And luffy is a fast moving target while he is attacking so law isn't just gonna solo him like vergo who was easy to read with a straightforward basic final attack, luffys style in G4 is a lot harder to predict due to his unorthodox mobility.
This isn't true at all. Luffy's mobility in Gear Fourth is exactly the same as Vergo's: He just launches himself at you. Only ONE of Luffy's attacks has been shown to be different, and that was Schneider. Luffy has the same "I charge towards you" style that Vergo did.
He ran and we know him eating doesn't take a long time, he even had homies helping him as a distraction, it's not instantaneous there is a time period required for him to be able to use G4. You're making him sound like link from Zelda that's not exactly what he is he can regain energy faster but doesn't magically just recover from injuries or be able to use G4 again immediately after eating. There is some time in between where he needs to convert the energy he ate otherwise he wouldn't he ran for a good period of time. We all know he recovers energy faster but it's not on the level u say it is and doesn't heal him.
I don't really care what you have to say. There's no debating about it whatsoever: When Luffy eats, he regains his stamina. The scan I posted shows him regaining stamina instantly from eating. The Gear Fourth cooldown happens when Luffy's stamina reaches zero and he has to recharge. If he's constantly eating, his stamina is constantly being refilled, meaning it never hit zero. Gear Fourth burns out when there's a finite pool of stamina to draw from. If that pool is constantly being sustained, then Gear Fourth won't burn out. And that's the bottom line on that.
But you are making the assumption that snack is close to a doffy level. Who luffy gave quite a run for his money. Until we get some hype or great feats from snack we can't assume urouge is at that level, he is probably very close to luffy but luffys feats are better for now.
The manga shows us that both Luffy and Law took down Doflamingo, while the same can't be said about Urouge. Until they show us or imply Urouge had help I'll assume otherwise. Once again you're saying this because you don't like the idea of Urouoge being stronger than Luffy.
Snack is a Sweet Commander, with the exception of maybe First Mate there's no reason for him to be much weaker than Cracker who's above Doffy.
The manga shows us that both Luffy and Law took down Doflamingo, while the same can't be said about Urouge. Until they show us or imply Urouge had help I'll assume otherwise. Once again you're saying this because you don't like the idea of Urouoge being stronger than Luffy.
How does beating a weaker SC than Cracker make Urouge stronger than Luffy? G4 Luffy held up well against Cracker before it timed out, you seriously think that the gap between Cracker and G4 Luffy is so big that even Snack and Urouge, a fellow SN would beat him?
Snack, Urouge, and Luffy should all be on the same level at least if we go by this logic, and that would make sense.
How does beating a weaker SC than Cracker make Urouge stronger than Luffy? G4 Luffy held up well against Cracker before it timed out, you seriously think that the gap between Cracker and G4 Luffy is so big that even Snack and Urouge, a fellow SN would beat him?
Snack, Urouge, and Luffy should all be on the same level at least if we go by this logic, and that would make sense.
Who said that Snack is weaker than Urouge? You people mentioned before that Big Mom sent Cracker after Snack was defeated, and that means that Cracker is stronger than Snack, but that only makes sense if Urouge defeated Snack with so little difficultly that he didn't lose any strength or wasn't weakened at all.
How do you lot know that Urouge didn't get the shit beat out of him during the fight, and any Commander could have done the job because he had nothing left in the tank? How do you know that Cracker isn't weaker than Snack and only beat Urouge because Urouge exhausted himself against Snack? Too many variables are wide open here.
Not to mention he also let one of his strongest crew members beat on him, without fighting back.. lol
That's why it's purely laughable that some people are trying to put Urouge above Luffy based on their crazy assumption of what is a "feat".. lol... all I can say to them is, ain't no proven feat bihh.. xd
I'm also pretty sure that Snack is the weakest commander since he's the only commander that was stripped of his 4th rank leaving it only 3 commanders in Big mam's pirate crew.
Snack is a Sweet Commander, with the exception of maybe First Mate there's no reason for him to be much weaker than Cracker who's above Doffy.
The manga shows us that both Luffy and Law took down Doflamingo, while the same can't be said about Urouge. Until they show us or imply Urouge had help I'll assume otherwise. Once again you're saying this because you don't like the idea of Urouoge being stronger than Luffy.
That's the point though, the manga showed us Luffy and Law took him down yet the characters in Dressrosa gave all credit to Luffy taking down Doffy so when Brulee says Urogue beat a commander it doesn't necessarily mean on his own as we've seen characters over look other participants and give credit to the final hitter.
That's the point though, the manga showed us Luffy and Law took him down yet the characters in Dressrosa gave all credit to Luffy taking down Doffy so when Brulee says Urogue beat a commander it doesn't necessarily mean on his own as we've seen characters over look other participants and give credit to the final hitter.
The difference between them is that we have proof that warrants dismissal. Even if you have DOUBT, you have NOTHING that warrants dismissal of Urouge defeating Snack by himself at this point in time. Unless you can bring up something that SPECIFICALLY addresses Urouge's situation, then as it stands now, he did it one on one.
That's the point though, the manga showed us Luffy and Law took him down yet the characters in Dressrosa gave all credit to Luffy taking down Doffy so when Brulee says Urogue beat a commander it doesn't necessarily mean on his own as we've seen characters over look other participants and give credit to the final hitter.
